Smalling has really flourished of late, jones too. Still think we need a high quality, experienced centre back along with a genuine right back. Would love to see Godin here.
Mats Hummels
- Thread starter Sied
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
If he comes he will make his decision on a sunday evening like today... after he has experienced a bloodless performance from Dortmund in the league on Saturday (with him on the pitch and also not in good shape), a performance that really showed some deficits of Klopp's team, and after sitting on his couch and watching United's match in the derby. Who could resist?
Hummels is definitely overrated on here. Good on the ball and a leader but his defensive play is all over the place at times plus he is slow and gets muscled out at times too which will be tested more in PL.
On top of that he is injury prone which would be a risk considering we even turn previously fit players like Rojo and Shaw into injury prone too.
On top of that he is injury prone which would be a risk considering we even turn previously fit players like Rojo and Shaw into injury prone too.
I don't really see the need to buy him at this point. We would be better off buying a less expensive player like Dragovic if we really want a CB.
I would be happy with either, as long as we get a quality centre back in which both of them are.
I agree. He would be a risky reputation buy.
Van Gaal wants him to enhance our possession game and passing further, that is not something Dragovic will be doing for us. The fact that he can defend a bit as well is a great bonus.
Mark my words, he will be chased by Louis. His type of player and the next step of his way of evolve our football.
Mark my words, he will be chased by Louis. His type of player and the next step of his way of evolve our football.
It showed today during the first 15-20 minutes what a calm and controlled defender could bring to the team.
Is he though? Nicking someone else's post from a forum: Bullshit. Along with Reus he's by far the best Dortmund performer. You can't expect him to score undeserved matchwinners and making up for all the mistakes in Dortmund's buildup play. Better blame the clueless midfield "to represent a drop of form this year."
And an image showing 2nd best Bundesliga CB with at least 17 apps on WhoScored (for tackles):
http://i.imgur.com/Jnw2qe1.png
Does 'Dribbled Past' in that image mean Hummels was dribbled past by the opposition, or he dribbled past the opposition?
Assuming it's the latter I think that's probably the most important stat there from LVG and his philosophy's point of view. He will give our attacks a whole new dimension, in that he's able to beat a man and immediately start an attack. You've seen our defence start to try this more as the season's gone on, but none of our current options have the raw talent for spotting a run and playing a ball like Hummels does. There's too much passing the ball to Carrick because they don't have the confidence, or simply just can't start a fresh attack themselves.
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Stefan Buczko is a big Dortmund fan who does a podcast and writes a column for ESPN about the club. He watches Hummels every week and mentioned the transfer rumour in his latest post.
I recommend reading the whole post. He talks a lot more about Hummels and his poor form plus other problems Dortmund are having this season.
http://www.espnfc.com/club/borussia...ssia-dortmund-season-suffered-another-setback
I recommend reading the whole post. He talks a lot more about Hummels and his poor form plus other problems Dortmund are having this season.
http://www.espnfc.com/club/borussia...ssia-dortmund-season-suffered-another-setback
One comment shows not much and even being 2nd best player in Dortmund's struggling side this season means less when he has been making more individual errors when left exposed by his team not being the same standard.
Anyway, curiously decided to do the same exact search on Whoscored for PL. Guess who came on top ?
Though these cannot be completely discounted and Jones is underrated on here by same yardstick, but my point is Hummels while being good isn't as good as some are making him out to be.
Hummels has a huge flaw in his defensive play as its been highlighted multiple times. If the play is in front of him, he can cope with anything but when he gets into a situation were the opposing team starts playing balls in behind him, then the problems start. 9/10 times he will lose out if he's running towards the ball while an opponent is also trying to reach it. He's got no pace at all. That coupled with the fact he tries to move out of the back 4 to make an interception leaves the team completely exposed when he fails.
He's a very good player but he has his flaws, I think some people are judging the FIFA Hummels and not the real Hummels when they portray him as the perfect defender.
He's a very good player but he has his flaws, I think some people are judging the FIFA Hummels and not the real Hummels when they portray him as the perfect defender.
In the last year though Hummels hasn't been better than our defenders. Maybe he isn't a bad player (he obviously isn't bad) but we don't need to spend so much on a player like him.
The two key attribute LvG will want from Hummels are his ability to start attacks from defense and his leadership experience. You can argue that there are good options that can provide the former but the with the latter there are hardly any options.
Laporte cost as much, or are you expecting Bilbao to let him go for anything under his release clause?
For all the people supposedly over rating Hummels on here, there are some making out he's nothing more than a pub player.
Clearly his qualities are something we want - I.e to suit a possession based game. As others pointed out, the alternatives like Dragovic have strengths but they dont have what Hummels has when it comes to usage of the ball. If the manager wants him then that's good enough for me.
Clearly his qualities are something we want - I.e to suit a possession based game. As others pointed out, the alternatives like Dragovic have strengths but they dont have what Hummels has when it comes to usage of the ball. If the manager wants him then that's good enough for me.
Same here. He's not the complete defender but it appears he's got what LVG wants in our team. I'd love to see him playing in a confident and settled United and have no doubts that LVG can get the best out of him.
I find it slightly odd that so many on here still praise his leadership. While he made too many silly individual mistakes this season, his overall play on the pitch wasn't that bad. What's really shocking is his leadership though. He looked like an excellent choice for the captaincy last summer, but in truth he has been a complete joke of a captain this season. He doesn't organise the defense, he gives stupid interviews at the worst possible time, repeatedly blamed his teammates for goals in post-match interviews and acts on the pitch like an egotistical idiot.
How has Subotic been this season? The few times I've watched Dortmund, he's stood out more than Hummels for me.
Did not watch after his knee injury but think someone mentioned how he is not the same player,strange thing when i saw him last time he just like Vidic lost bit of weight,not sure its knee related.
Maybe it's more that he isn't injury prone and at his age he can be moulded into the player we want.
yup. seems a bit full of himself tbh
You mean like someone who's angling for a move away?
Not sure why that makes a difference regarding his leadership? If he wanted to leave since last summer, he shouldn't have taken the captaincy or at least give it all during his final season instead of acting like a joke in that role and then running away. If he doesn't want to leave or is only thinking about it and might end up staying, he still did an awful job in that role this season and better get his act together for next season.
Either way, he doesn't deserve to be praised for his leadership qualities in my book.
Probably the main reason of why Dortmund is there in the league.
Terrible
Indeed. Even worse than Hummels. Sokratis has actually been their best defender this season imo.
Is he the current German captain?
Of course not. Schweinsteiger is captain, Neuer is 2nd and was captain when Schweinsteiger missed the first few games after the World Cup. Khedira and Müller should be ahead of Hummels as well.
Vidic was an incredible captain for us for years and then acted basically the same way in his final year as Hummels is now. It's obviously the wrong way to go about things but the point still stands that he could have it in him to be an excellent leader despite not showing it this season.
I'm no expert but what i have seen a few snippets of him this season and during the world cup and can safely say he is exactly what we need, his composure and passing from the back is what we are lacking big time.
Both Smalling/Jones are terrible when it comes to that, so IMO having Hummels at the back is a no brainer for me.
Both Smalling/Jones are terrible when it comes to that, so IMO having Hummels at the back is a no brainer for me.
Very unprofessional. The opposite of what LvG will be looking for
Not really. Van Gaal won't be overly concerned by his recent theatrics at Dortmund (can under the perspective of their fans to be fair) under dressing room or political circumstances the media (or us fans) don't know of. For all we know, he could be frustrated with Dortmund's position in the league table and recent regression (footballers especially top class ones in or around their prime realize the window of opportunity could shut anytime soon, they crave silverware and that seems a relatively distant possibility right now for Klopp's men), or maybe there is some hidden substance to the transfer rumors and the whole thing could even be part of a preemptive deliberate ploy with one eye on the summer window.
It's not like Louis had major concerns while signing Rojo in the summer, and his behavior once United's interest became apparent was way more unprofessional (eg. refusing to train or turning up for meetings).
With all respect to Rojo, Hummels would be coming in as a very senior player and really should have his attitude in check by now. He'd be expected to slot straight in and command a defence including some title winners and some impressionable youngsters. Difficult job, you need the right personality IMO
Vidic should have handled it better when he announced that he'll leave at the end of the season last year, but like you said, he was an incredible captain at United for years and left when he was clearly past it and not good enough for a European top team anymore. Hummels doesn't have that history of excellent leadership in that role and he's entering his prime. He became captain in the summer and lead the team to a truely shit season. It's his only season as captain. The moment they finally left the relegation zone, he started giving interviews in public about his desire to leave and caused new problems for the team. Fair enough if he wants to leave, I don't care about that. I just find it odd when people say he's the leader United needs. He's certainly not the leader I'd want in my team.
Hummels has the adequate mental makeup to bear that responsibility. When a club is struggling, the players get fatigued after a while and even the smallest of narratives get recycled and magnified in a negative light. We have to take all that into account, rather than harping too much on his supposed shortcomings or "attitude problems". Who'd have thunk the Eric Cantona who was a major problem child, fell out with managers and players on a frequent basis and was shoved aside from the French national team would be the guiding light for the impressionable youngsters of Class of '92 ? Not an exact comparison, but it does kind of validate the thought that different people react differently to different circumstances and challenges. And unless you can conclusively prove otherwise, there's no reason to assume Hummels can't lead our defense for the foreseeable future. Especially since his composed playing style complements what we already have, as some of the Dutch posters more familiar with Van Gaal's tendencies have alluded to. He might be the final piece in the defensive jigsaw.
Not to mention Rojo had a legal case pending, as did Ander. Hummels seems to divide opinion very strongly here, from his lack of pace, to his style of play, there's very little middle ground, and I think he killed @Balu Dog.
Not to mention Rojo had a legal case pending, as did Ander. Hummels seems to divide opinion very strongly here, from his lack of pace, to his style of play, there's very little middle ground, and I think he killed @Balu Dog.
I actually still rate him and often defended him in the past. I hope he moves to United, because van Gaal might be exactly the type of coach he needs at the moment, someone who gives him more direction and takes away some of the freedom he enjoys a bit too much at Dortmund. I also think that a new challenge might force him to focus again on the game. I hope he'll be a fantastic centerback for Germany next to Boateng for many years, because they're an excellent complementary pair.
However, he sure as hell doesn't deserve a lot of credit for his leadership after this season.