[The Mitcher]

It was never a deeper midfielder, it was the idea of a 433 with one defensive midfielders and two 8's that press high up the pitch and contribute in Attack. Mount has played as an 8 before, but not necessarily in such a setup.

City played: Rodri, De Bruyne, Bernardo/Foden
Arsenal were to play: Rice, Odegaard, Havertz.

But what it actually was, was a 4-1-4-1 with two tens and a big gaping hole in the middle. And even in his natural position as an AM he was still absolutely useless.

 

[AjaxCunian]

But what it actually was, was a 4-1-4-1 with two tens and a big gaping hole in the middle. And even in his natural position as an AM he was still absolutely useless.

True! EtH got the tactics of it wrong, we weren't ready for that system at all. The cohesion wasnt there.

 

[wolvored]

Wasn’t he long term injured before we bought him? We should be comparing the last couple of seasons on any injuries before we rush in and buy a player surely. As others have said we should be offering a low basic and a big performance based incentive. 5 year contracts are too long. 3 year plus 1 and if everything ok then offer another contract.

I still have doubts about Shaw. How he was injured, then miraculously recovered for England final, then was injured again soon after. Makes you wonder

 

[Giggsyking]

 

[Giggsyking]

I would take 10m for him in the summer.

 

[BorisManUtd]

Mount got injured against City mid-December so that was 2 and half months ago and he's still not even in team training. Shaw was supposed to be back late January, got a minor injury and should've been back in training early February and it's now early March and he's still not part of team training. We won't be able to get rid of them so this'll probably just keep happening over next few years. Frustrating.

 

[Apokalips]

Mount got injured against City mid-December so that was 2 and half months ago and he's still not even in team training. Shaw was supposed to be back late January, got a minor injury and should've been back in training early February and it's now early March and he's still not part of team training. We won't be able to get rid of them so this'll probably just keep happening over next few years. Frustrating.

I think we need to come to terms with him, at best, being a bonus. Neither he nor Shaw should be in our plans going forward, we should plan as though they aren't about and if they are ever fit then they can get some minutes but never rely on them. I guess we will see if the club has learnt lessons from Shaw in our handling of Mount and whether or not we still try to rely on him instead of signing players in those positions that will contribute.

 

[Lay]

It's quite outstanding that we have replaced Jones with two players.

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

Yeah definitely more than a whiff of fraud about some of these signings. Both with the players and the finances.

And the agents, they just so happen to be his family. Who would buy antony for 80 million after working with him?

 

[Rossa]

How the feck is that new? Equals to the sun is hot, the earth is round and Trump is an egocentric lunatic.

 

[FerociousCorgis]

man i really hoped the people in charge knew better than us, but a case where clearly it has not been so. Could see this disaster coming a mile away. To pay that much for a player almost out of contract, and to a league rival, was just fecking stupid.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

I would take 10m for him in the summer.

He’s probably on 250k a week or something ridiculous. So the best you can do is a loan with 30% salary covered by Royal Antwerp.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

Do we know what his injury is?

 

[Waynne]

Mis muy mis minjured mo many mimes. Mits Mediculous !

 

[kundalini]

Do we know what his injury is?

Hamstring injury due to hyperextended leg.

Original estimates were for him to be out for about 10 weeks, which would be early March, as he was injured during the Man City away game on 15th December.

Clearly behind schedule but possibly not by that much. Amorim said he expected Toby Collyer to return first, then Mount, then Shaw. Collyer now back.

 

[izec]

They will come back, play a couple of games and be injured again for the rest of the season. Then will miss half of pre season injured, come back for a couple of games and miss the start of the season, rinse repeat.

 

[DWelbz19]

I quite remember many on the caf backing that idea actually, comparing it to Man City and Arsenal's setup. Many described Mount as an upgrade on Fred, same workrate but better technique and more goalscoring.

We were nowhere near Arsenal/City in possession to try that.

I remember, and I remember having plenty of arguments with people before he joined about how it would never work. Mount — off the ball no.10; Fernandes a high risk playmaking no.10; in front of an immobile high risk passing DM.

Manchester United have neglected central midfielders who excel first and foremost at receiving and accurately passing the ball for about 10 years now.

 

[simonhch]

I remember, and I remember having plenty of arguments with people before he joined about how it would never work. Mount — off the ball no.10; Fernandes a high risk playmaking no.10; in front of an immobile high risk passing DM.

Manchester United have neglected central midfielders who excel first and foremost at receiving and accurately passing the ball for about 10 years now.

The thing is, so much of it comes down to the actual instructions given to players. Players aren’t this pre-determined set of stats and positions like in FM, they can perform vastly different roles and have completely different impacts based on the instructions they receive.

Bruno Fernandes for example, is a high risk/high reward type of player, when allowed to play with complete freedom. But as we’ve seen Under Amorim, and as we saw before he came to United, he can operate very well as a deeper central midfielder where his expansive passing range is a very effective weapon.

Under the right coach, with the right instructions, a midfield three of Mainoo, Bruno and Mount could work very well. But it would not work at all if all three were allowed to do whatever they wanted or received crazy instructions. I mean, this is literally the point of coaching. It’s like when Di Maria, a slight, physically puny winger, was moved into central midfield by Ancelotti and became the absolute engine and power house of that Madrid team. Closing people down relentlessly in midfield, and driving forwards at pace.

The problem when Mount came wasn’t that he was a specific type of 10 and Bruno was another type of 10, it was that the midfield unit….along with Casemiro at that time, had to be instructed to play in a cohesive way that worked for the entire team. Both Mount and Bruno have shown they have all the qualities to play in central midfield, but that’s not enough. Players have to know what they are doing with the ball and without it, and those instructions have to make sense.

Unfortunately, at that time, little of what we did made any sense. If you look at what Casemiro was doing, passing it and then bombing forwards, it was completely nonsensical when he was supposedly the anchor man. He didn’t do that for shits and giggles, he did it because that’s what he was told to do; and it completely undermined the entire basis of the team. In fact Amorim said, very early on, that he had to stop training so many times because the midfielders were passing the ball off and then just running up front. And he had to teach them to stop.

While it’s perfectly clear that there are players who fit roles better than others, and that’s why specialist players have such high value in the transfer market, it is also true that players are rarely actually confined by what we consider their position to be. Their success or failure is more often than not determined by the individual instructions they receive and how that fits within the overall patterns of play and dynamic of the team. Ten Hag had no real plan, which meant the entire thing was a failure. People blame that on Mount being a bad fit, but I guarantee that the right coach, giving the right instructions, could make a brilliant midfield out of Casemiro (of 2 years ago), Bruno and Mount. Klopp would’ve eaten that shit for breakfast. Hardworking, technically gifted, physically robust players? Yes please. And probably why he tried to sign both Bruno and Mount at different times.

When I go back and look at Ten Hag’s reign, the peak of which I consider to be the lead up to the League cup victory, much of his early tactics were decided by the physical limitations of certain players. At the time we had Eriksen starting and sitting deep in midfield. He simply didn’t have the legs to do the whole kick and rush style kamikaze football Ten Hag wanted, and as such often just sat deep, giving us a reference point and anchor in midfield, that was capable of passing between the lines. When you look at those period of games, we exerted much more control and cohesion than at any point later in ETH’s reign, a phenomenon which peaked in the home victory against Spurs. A victory of immeasurable maturity and control. But a victory achieved almost by accident, because the physical limitations of Eriksen meant that his individual instructions had to be different to be ultimately intended style of football. If it was intentional, we would have continued it, because it was the period of his reign where we actually looked by far the strongest. But he had a different vision, of rapid, high pressing, kick and rush football - for which he signed Mount eventually - but which in reality was some sort of demented, unconnected gegenpress, focused on attacking overloads but without any consideration of how to intelligently progress the ball, or cover for the counter. Hence we scored very few goals, and conceded bucket loads.

Amorim is getting a squad that has treated the football like a hot potato for two and a half years. Not something which can be changed quickly. Players like Mount could potentially be a great asset to him in his 3-4-2-1, IF he can ever get fit and stay fit. Likewise, Mount could still be of tremendous value to a manager playing 4-3-3, and even alongside Bruno. But, the instructions given to all three have to be cohesive and have to make sense.

This was never really about his individual quality and characteristics, because he has all the tools to play as an 8 in a midfield 3, it was about the entire system being a hot fecking mess. We could’ve signed De Jong, Kimmich, or fecking Maradona, and the thing would’ve been an equal sized shit show. I’d bet my bottom dollar that the right coach could get a midfield of Casemiro (again of two years ago) as a disciplined 6, behind two eight and a half’s in Bruno and Mount, to be an utterly brilliant midfield. But it would take clear, disciplined instructions and a cohesive team approach that everyone understood.

As for Fred, selling him was an utterly bizarre decision. We didn’t get much more him, and we blew most of that on a loan fee for a vastly inferior player in Amrabat. While he was here, I didn’t consider Fred to be an automatic starter, but I didn’t say multiple times that I considered him to be one of, if not the, best second string midfielders in the league. A player content with having a squad role, coming off the bench and or not starting every week, but when he came on, or played, did so with an incredible amount of energy and enthusiasm. He had one of the best engines in the league and was an intelligent presser. He was also vastly underrated technically. It was a huge mistake letting him go, especially considering ETH was demanding his cms cover so much ground. He was about the only midfielder in the squad capable of getting up and down the pitch, at pace, over and over and over again. The only one naturally skilled for the utterly mental instructions ETH put in place. So naturally we sold him for peanuts,

 

[Vidooq]

400k a week combined between them two in wages, the club is paying. This is so aggravating.

 

[joedirt87]

I would take 10m for him in the summer.

i would let another club take him for free if they were willing to pay his wages. By asking for anything in a transfer were pretty much doomed to pay out his wages until the contract ends, which would cost the club a little over 30 million pound.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

man i really hoped the people in charge knew better than us, but a case where clearly it has not been so. Could see this disaster coming a mile away. To pay that much for a player almost out of contract, and to a league rival, was just fecking stupid.

For quite an average player too, I remember all the abuse he used to get when he was fit playing for England for being so unremarkable and average in his performances. And I think he would help us if he was fit, he’s a decent player but nothing that special. Like if he was a free transfer and you already have a strong team, he could do a good job as a squad rotation player for a top team, but he was never going to transform United or anything for that money, crazy signing.

 

[aeh1991]

I would take back Fred, McTominay, Angel Gomes and even Hannibal over this guy. Massively overrated.

 

[GlazersHater]

This one is the most stupid transfer in our history, we have worse but this one is the most stupid.

He wasn't needed, just one year left on the contract, still for some reason we decided it was a good call to pay 60M and gave him the number 7.

Doesn't get dumber than this.

 

[Gordon S]

For quite an average player too, I remember all the abuse he used to get when he was fit playing for England for being so unremarkable and average in his performances. And I think he would help us if he was fit, he’s a decent player but nothing that special. Like if he was a free transfer and you already have a strong team, he could do a good job as a squad rotation player for a top team, but he was never going to transform United or anything for that money, crazy signing.

As you say, as a squad option on a free, it makes sense, but EtH clearly saw him as a key starting player for us. First signing of the summer, massive wages offered and the still iconic nr7 shirt on top of it. Then you add the mindnumbing £50m we paid Chelsea for a player with one year left on his contract and you have a mystery that will stand the test of time.