I can see him nailing down a wide playmaker role on the right. Have Rashford and the fullbacks provide width and let Mount do his thing from the wide right starting position.
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Watching Mason Mount play on the wing for Manchester United is the stuff of absolute nightmares, and exactly where I was worried he’d end up.
You see, you can. It's this thing called opinion. I am not asking people to agree, but due to the nature of my opinion, how can you quantify an agreeable result? For every argument, there is a counter-argument - none of which would be justifiable.
I think he's shit. The few Chelsea fans I know, also say he's shit. You say he's not, and the few Chelsea fans that post here say he's not - and for that? Fine, no problem. Jog on. A disagreement doesn't always have to come to a generally accepted consensus.
I draw my conclusion based on the past season/season half for Chelsea and the National team. . . and well. . . his pre-season and first few games here. And don't try and argue he's been good since he's been here. Please, 14 passes in 85 minutes, no tackles, no shots on goal. . . the damning stats go on. He's playing central midfield. That shit is NOT acceptable for Manchester United. Have our standards slipped so low? For context, Fred typically averaged 3-4x that amount, and look at how derided he is on these forums.
"He'll come good" - yeah, they said that about Dele Alli and Jadon Sancho, too. I can only hold Mount to recency, and recently, (read: 12-18 months or so), he has been absolutely fecking dire.
Oh, and we spent a good portion of our meagre transfer budget on this guy. In the last year of his contract. After performing terribly for the last 12-18 month. Obviously, some of my blatant disdain is attributed towards that. We don't need this guy. Money is better spent elsewhere. Hell, I do not even know what position he plays? Does anyone? Is he a 10? We got Bruno - Far better player. 8? See first two games. Right? Jesus, help us.
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Despite what many posters seem to think, we rarely play a 4-3-3 in possession. We've reverted to a sort of 3-2-5 with a box in midfield (or a 3-2-2-3 if you will) where its mostly Casemiro + one other in the deeper position. The person alongside him rotates, and can be the centre back, full back or attacking mid. We've been caught out several times doing this, notably against Wolves, where they streaked through big gaps in our midfield. But that was about being poor in the transition from one formation to another. We don't plan to play with a midfield 3 of Mount, Bruno, Casemiro.
Mount will most often play in the more forward attacking 2, but might also drop deeper at times when either Shaw or AWB push up, or rotate wide left occasionally if Rashford cuts inside.
I think this is why ETH wanted him. He needs someone with high work rate, who will work equally hard out of possession as well as in, and is at least "good" in several attacking positions rather than being outstanding in any single position (as Bruno is). That was always how I judged him at Chelsea.
Of course, this means that even if Mount works out well at United, he won't be appreciated by some fans. Perhaps understandably, fans like players with easily visible end products - goals, killer passes, sliding tackles or big saves. System players that help the team function well often aren't as popular. Many fans used to complain when we played Ji-sung Park instead of Nani in big games, despite the fact his workrate and nous that allowed Ronaldo and co to shine.
It's because you said "Chelsea fans think he's shit."
Rather than "the handful of Chelsea fans I know think he's shit."
Two different things.
I don't think anybody is arguing your right to not rate him.
When is he going to recover from his injury and start playing again? I heard different stories and mixed them up/forgot.
‘Chelsea fans think he’s shit’ isn’t an opinion. It’s a statement. And a very broad one at that.
Could pan out that way and we’ll see how they compete.
I think you might be slightly wide of the mark regarding the position Mount has been signed to play. Imo he is signed to play as a high no8, leading the press in the opponent’s half and we don’t have anyone fundamentally more suited to that role than him.
If you talk about EtH having favourites, Mount would be one of them imo. But I believe this idea that EtH likes consistency and picks by favourite is erroneous. Where his options are limited and competition is weaker, of course he mostly picks the same guys but he has said he wants competition in every position and with every player believing he can start. You don’t achieve that by picking favourites and ignoring form.
When it comes to Mount, his competition is going to be Eriksen and probably Amrabat. Eriksen is more used to playing in that position higher up the pitch than Amrabat is but he doesn’t have the engine to lead the press. Amrabat has the engine but, thus far, is more comfortable in deeper areas and is also there to compete with Casemiro. When everyone is fit, I can’t see past Mount for regular starts in the high no8 role.
Well technically it is... just not his. It's like Chelsea signing Lingard and then saying United fans think he's shit. May not necessarily be the end of the story, but its a valid point.
Haha fair enough, to be honest I don’t see it either. But the chelsea fans I know really rate him and for some reason a lot of top managers do too. Tuchel, Klopp, Arteta and ETH. Hopefully there’s a point it clicks.That's a fair point. I can't argue that.
I still don't like Mount, though!
Mount is a good shooter just like Bruno. So there you go, a perfect Bruno replacement when he's injured.
Would had been a good punt for 25/30M plus add-ons based on performance. I think the big problem here is that we overpaid for a player that Chelsea didn't see as good enough for their squad. By the price we paid he was suppose to veni, vidi, vici, but instead we'll have to hope he will perform since basically the whole squad is playing bellow par.
There’s going to be disappointed people in here who are expecting him to go RW.
Chelsea tried to keep him.
When is he back? Right after the international break?
Ya he ain’t a winger. Now Amrabat is in Im not sure where he plays. An expensive experiment.
We going to change our formation to the diamond soon? To fit him and Fernandes we may have to.
When many fans of a club in which the player has played for 15+ years rate the player so badly, you have to listen. Judgments can be erroneous, but you just can't sweep the opinions of opposition fans under the carpet with utter disdain.
He won’t.
I mean that’s just not what the point was. The poster made a claim that chelsea fans don’t rate him and when challenged said that ‘Well it isn’t exactly quantifiable’. You can just make a claim and then bat away challenges in such a manner. Their position was purely anecdotal. Anecdotally all the chelsea fans I know (which is a lot because I live not too far from their ground) all rate him and were sad to see him go.
Can I just say ‘chelsea fans all rate him’? No because that’s a broad claim based on anecdotal evidence.
---- Rashford -- Hojlund -----
------------Fernandes ------------
---- Mount -- Amrabat --------
------------Casemiro --------------
Shaw Martinez Varane AWB
---------------Onana ----------------
------------Fernandes ------------
---- Mount -- Amrabat --------
------------Casemiro --------------
Shaw Martinez Varane AWB
---------------Onana ----------------
Suggestions of him as a right forward at least I know my crystal ball is working. In fairness he was more regular there for Chelsea than as an 8, it’ll just cement how pointless and wasteful the transfer has been.
at least I know my crystal ball is working. In fairness he was more regular there for Chelsea than as an 8, it’ll just cement how pointless and wasteful the transfer has been.I am pretty sure he ends up on the right wing because ETH will want the return on his investment and there is no way like 0.0000001 % we wont be much better in midfield with Ambarat instead of him.
I also think this should be our lineup going forward, but can't see Ten Hag going for it.
meh that would be incredibly narrow overall, and imbalanced to the left side on attack with rash wanting to stay a bit off to the left. It would just be a return to the days when opposition teams didnt have to worry about defending the right, or even keeping defenders over there most of the time. It was not a pretty sight. We need to maintain width to properly stretch teams out
10m on loan isn't that expensive.
Based on price alone I'm not sure why people Amrabat will begin immediately to start in midfield ahead of Mount. I expect we see ten Hag persevere with his first idea.
You push your fullbacks to be more attacking especially on the right side, also Hojlund would operate down the right flank too, with Bruno having a roaming role.
this is just simply going back to what we were before finally spending the money on antony to try and address the issue. AWB isnt that type of player, just like he wasnt back then. Teams will leave that side pretty much undefended and just cheat down into the middle, like they did before. We need the width from our wide attacker there. This is pellistri time to shine it seems.
Teams would leave the right side undefended with AWB, Hojlund and Bruno operating there and even Mount? I don't think so
AWB beats his defender often and can put in decent delivery, I don't think its the worst idea in the world, just depends on the setup
Not rubbish at all. I have no doubt he'll be a great buy for Utd to the point where no one even mentions or thinks about bringing up his price. But that's as long as he's played further forward where we've seen him. Its a bit unknown how he'll do if he continues to play in a deeper role.
Mount at the moment is a player who plays best at one tempo, 100mph. And thus he's not really suited to playing deeper where you often need a more controlled approach.
The alternative is being overrun in midfield by Wolverhampton and other mediocre teams. There is just no control whatsoever, and most of our play is just made by individuals rather than actual build-up. We'll see how Amrabat adapts before talk of formation changes.
What incentive do we have to play him further forward, though? We have the vastly superior Bruno for that role. Unless he’s there for back-up. Where £55m for a player in abysmal form who’s in the final year of his contract is an absolute piss take - when we have far more pressing issues.
He has much more presses and sprints than Bruno, which is what Ten Hag is looking for. Players who run a lot and work hard helps a lot, but in the end, it's the players that force mistakes by relentless pressing that ensure we win back possession, which Mount excels at.
You've seen a single game of 85 minutes of Mount at CM and you've concluded "we've seen that's how gone". By the way, he had two key passes in that game, the same as James Maddison, and 27 touches, not 14. He also had a tackle (1 successful, 3 attempted), so when you say "no tackles", it's evident what your agenda is. Everything in that post is incorrect.
Not that much, they low balled every contract offer.
Love spending £55m on a Diamond League competitor.
I love how this is an argument made for what Bruno offers, but when talking about Mount and Antony, it's completely irrelevant and talked about as if it's a downside. By the way, there's not a single PL season where Bruno has had a better PL season than Mount's best in terms of stats if you exclude his penalties, despite playing 1000 minutes more. This is not me saying Mount is better than Bruno as a 10, but it just shows he offers much more than just pressing, like you claimed.
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There was an offer that I think could have been even more than the salary United ended up paying him. A long term deal was verbally agreed between Mount and Boehly before the World Cup and the idea was he would sign it after returning from Qatar. What happened was during the WC some of our current sporting leaders started in their jobs (mainly Winstanley) and ended up pulling the offer, probably because they felt it was way too much and Boehly had made a silly offer.
The contract offer was then changed to just a one year extension on a big salary, either to 'protect his value' for a summer sale or challenge him to get back to his previous level this season before club being willing to commit to a longer contract on such big wages, but Mount rejected the idea of a short term extension immediately. That was around January-February and no further talks ever took place for a new deal.
So I think it was Boehly who fecked it up. If he didn't meddle by offering the contract before the World Cup to begin with, I think Winstanley & co. could have even been successful in negotiating a new deal for Mount but having some silly offer that was ultimately pulled out just made a big mess of any further negotiations because Mount naturally thought he was entitled to what had already been verbally offered to him.
Didn't United go through something similar with De Gea this year? There was a new deal agreed on big wages but then the club had some second thoughts and pulled it, only to offer lesser terms?
Mate, laughable because Bruno in conjunction with his running and pressing actually creates.
Waffle that Bruno has never had a better season than Mount
Bruno has played a thousand mins less than Mount and made 51 less appearances than him yet....
Goals
Bruno: 80 = 0.4gpm (just casually double Mount)
Mount: 54 = 0.2gpm
Assists
Bruno: 62
Mount: 43
Penalties scored:
Bruno: 17
Mount: 2
So even if you remove penalties, the difference is 15 goals so, Bruno has 65 goals and Mount has 52. It's weird and misleading to "discount penalties" a player still needs to score them.
But even then, 88 through balls by Bruno is 3.5x Mount, big chances created, Bruno is 2.5x Mount at 85 to 36. Four thousand more touches of the ball than Mount, 3000 more passes, 1100 more passes forwards and was only dispossessed 3 more times than mount 179-176.
I'll keep going via edit;
Clearances, Bruno has made 2.5x Mount, headed clearances 3x Mount, 50% more aerial battles won, 25% more tackles won, 12% higher interception rate, 20% more tackles, 25% less fouls given away.
Mount offers so little on the ball that his fan boys have to resort to gassing up his "silent domination"
Alas it's all crap.
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Mate, laughable because Bruno in conjunction with his running and pressing actually creates.
Waffle that Bruno has never had a better season than Mount
Bruno has played a thousand mins less than Mount and made 51 less appearances than him yet....
Goals
Bruno: 80 = 0.4gpm (just casually double Mount)
Mount: 54 = 0.2gpm
Assists
Bruno: 62
Mount: 43
Penalties scored:
Bruno: 17
Mount: 2
So even if you remove penalties, the difference is 15 goals so, Bruno has 65 goals and Mount has 52. It's weird and misleading to "discount penalties" a player still needs to score them.
But even then, 88 through balls by Bruno is 3.5x Mount, big chances created, Bruno is 2.5x Mount at 85 to 36. Four thousand more touches of the ball than Mount, 3000 more passes, 1100 more passes forwards and was only dispossessed 3 more times than mount 179-176.
I'll keep going via edit;
Clearances, Bruno has made 2.5x Mount, headed clearances 3x Mount, 50% more aerial battles won, 25% more tackles won, 12% higher interception rate, 20% more tackles, 25% less fouls given away.
Mount offers so little on the ball that his fan boys have to resort to gassing up his "silent domination"
Alas it's all crap.
Why did you make it so difficult to read?
During an individual Premier League season, Bruno has never had a better season (without his goals) in terms of goals + assists was the point. Why are you talking about through balls and goals per match?
Best season of Mason Mount 21/22 (2363 minutes played, no penalties) - 11 goals, 10 assists (21 G+A)
Best season of Bruno Fernandes 20/21 (3099 minutes played, no penalties) - 9 goals, 12 assists (21 G+A)
Looking at this, it shows they're equal, and Bruno played 736 minutes more which is around 8 full matches, so Mount had a better goal + assist ratio per 90 than Bruno did. How did you manage to conclude that Bruno has played a 1000 minutes less than Mount?
Edit: Looking back, Mount actually had a goal from a PK so it's 10 goals, not 11, which has Bruno at one more. Even then, per 90 Mount still beats him.
You claim Mount doesn't create in conjuction with his pressing and sprints, which is incorrect, and if you bothered, you'd know that. In 21/22, Mount was number 12 in PL for chances created, ahead of Grealish, Bernardo Silva, Maddison, Bowen, Mahrez, Mané and others. The year before he was number 2, only beaten by Bruno. I suggest you also look up Mount's presses per 90, which is much more effective than Bruno's.
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