Mason Greenwood, Marseille Footballer | Read the thread rules in the OP before posting

Amar__ said:
It's funny how people like @Redlambs are allowed to continually call people here all kind of names, and yet that same poster praised Ronaldo for years, and never said a bad word about him, not even when the allegations came out, not even when he paid off the victim he probably raped, not even when the evidence of him raping that girl came out. Because that's his hero and after all it's easier to pretend you are Mr. Right guy by calling other people here all kind of names without calling your hero with those same names and admitting you worshipped the wrong guy. Despite that guy being terrible person and an actual rapist unlike many people who are at wrong for following footballers who score goals.

It seems funny that I couldn't find his single bad post about Ronaldo(and many good about him), while he is one of leading posters in this thread making sure the world know how big rapist Greenwood is, and how big twat everyone who posts in this thread is.
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That was well before we knew about the allegations to such a level. Also, you don't see me defending him at all since, we can be wrong and learn. I've put my cards on the table multiple times about why I have such an issue with Greenwood and this situation, very few others have and certainly none of the defenders have spoken as truthfully as I have as to why I have such a big problem with him. But also have a big problem with the undercurrent on this site and have called out various things/people over the years about it. At least I have the guts to speak truthfully about what I think, a lot of you could actually learn from that and just come outright and say it.

But anyway, childish whataboutisms aside, I never called you a single name in here. So if you take offense to my posts, maybe you should think about why that is?

I'm quite happy for you guys who love Greenwood to come at me by the way. It only further shows what you are and amuses me at the same time.

Admin edit: conversational quotes deleted to keep the thread on topic (original posts also deleted). Not a criticism of this post.
 
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Lash said:
To a degree, if they let him off transgressions such as the Iceland incident because of how talented he was, which fed his ego. Or held him to different standards because of his talent - this has been accused, but not really proven. There is a level of personal responsibility and family responsibility that seems to be missing here though. We probably don't have a "how to treat a human being with respect and decency" class in the academy, but who's to say he'd have even listened or turn up to said class?

This is a bit like saying school teachers should be responsible for how your child turns out. If your kid is just a shit or you're asleep at the wheel, it's not really the schools fault unless you can point to a specific set of behaviours/incidents that contributed.
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Haha I agree with your post completely - parents and the person himself are themselves a bunch of clowns for sure.

United themselves could have done more to pull him aside and told him to get his head out of his arse at the first sign of trouble though, Coach Carter style and given his parents a dressing down too.

The individual, club and parents are all to blame for how he turned out imo - maybe a lesser share of the blame on the club?
 
RedRocket08 said:
Haha I agree with your post completely - parents and the person himself are themselves a bunch of clowns for sure.

United themselves could have done more to pull him aside and told him to get his head out of his arse at the first sign of trouble though, Coach Carter style and given his parents a dressing down too.

The individual, club and parents are all to blame for how he turned out imo - maybe a lesser share of the blame on the club?
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The surprising this is, i recall when he first came on to the scene, there were reports of how he has a great upbringing. Just a little later though, there were several warning signs and the he should have been managed better. That's not to absolve the individual of course, he has himself to blame primarily
 
RedRocket08 said:
Haha I agree with your post completely - parents and the person himself are themselves a bunch of clowns for sure.

United themselves could have done more to pull him aside and told him to get his head out of his arse at the first sign of trouble though, Coach Carter style and given his parents a dressing down too.

The individual, club and parents are all to blame for how he turned out imo - maybe a lesser share of the blame on the club?
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I think they have to take the majority of the blame, but maybe a bit harsh to call them clowns without knowing everything.

I guess we have to know what the club did when the unprofessional behaviours reared their head and whether they saw any red flags that they overlooked. They did do the right thing when everything came out and eventually did the right thing in selling him, so they get a some kudos for that.
 
Can I ask a question that has been bothering me since the whole thing started?

Why are we as a club expected to self harm in the name of moral standards when they don’t seem to apply to other clubs or Greenwood himself?
 
Ole's screen said:
Can I ask a question that has been bothering me since the whole thing started?

Why are we as a club expected to self harm in the name of moral standards when they don’t seem to apply to other clubs or Greenwood himself?
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Self harm? Hardly. More like getting rid of the dirt from our club
 
Ole's screen said:
Can I ask a question that has been bothering me since the whole thing started?

Why are we as a club expected to self harm in the name of moral standards when they don’t seem to apply to other clubs or Greenwood himself?
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Sorry but do you hold yourself to high moral standards? Of having respect for other human beings and standing against abuse, among many other things? If so, then why should the club you support - which is one of the most loved and cherished on the planet - not represent similar values?
 
Ole's screen said:
Can I ask a question that has been bothering me since the whole thing started?

Why are we as a club expected to self harm in the name of moral standards when they don’t seem to apply to other clubs or Greenwood himself?
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I'd argue that you're not self-harming. Keeping Greenwood around would only affect the team, fans, atmosphere and PR of the club negatively, in my opinion.

You're also one of the largest clubs on the planet and should hold yourselves to a higher standard, as everything you do is under the microscope.
 
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Ole's screen said:
We’ve historically tolerated a lot of dirt at the club, even when we were successful.
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Some types of 'dirt' can be tolerated, but some types of it can't, and in Greenwood's case that was something that could not and should not be tolerated.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Sorry but do you hold yourself to high moral standards? Of having respect for other human beings and standing against abuse, among many other things? If so, then why should the club you support - which is one of the most loved and cherished on the planet - not represent similar values?
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Bingo. I always knew you were a good one, even if I annoy you too much these days :lol:


Ole's screen said:
Can I ask a question that has been bothering me since the whole thing started?

Why are we as a club expected to self harm in the name of moral standards when they don’t seem to apply to other clubs or Greenwood himself?
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Self harm?

What about the harm done to others...do you have an opinion on that, or do you think it's fine to hurt others if your friends also do it? Where do you "moral standards" fit in on that question?
 
Ole's screen said:
Can I ask a question that has been bothering me since the whole thing started?

Why are we as a club expected to self harm in the name of moral standards when they don’t seem to apply to other clubs or Greenwood himself?
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If this question has been bothering you so much surely you'd have sought and found an answer sooner than this?

Why do you consider getting rid of an abuser self-harm? Do you really think fans want to cheer this person on? Do parents want their kids to idolise a man who regularly beat his partner and tried to force her to have sex?

As a club Utd should be held to the highest standard. If another club is happy to take on that baggage and sacrifice their morality then so be it. Yes we've had some poor characters in the past but times move on and society changes.
 
Redlambs said:
Bingo. I always knew you were a good one, even if I annoy you too much these days :lol:



Self harm?

What about the harm done to others...do you have an opinion on that, or do you think it's fine to hurt others if your friends also do it? Where do you "moral standards" fit in on that question?
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Self harm only in football terms. I don’t expect my football club to represent any moral virtue beyond putting the best footballing side out to compete, pretty much regardless of their personal lives, unless they’re convicted of a crime.

My football club isn’t me. It doesn’t represent my values. And it never will.
 
Ole's screen said:
Can I ask a question that has been bothering me since the whole thing started?

Why are we as a club expected to self harm in the name of moral standards when they don’t seem to apply to other clubs or Greenwood himself?
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Because he brought the club's name into disrepute.
United is a family club and certain behaviour can't be tolerated.
It's better for the club to retain it's honour and morality and take a financial hit.
If he would have stayed the chants at united games would have been horrendous.
Our fans should not have to take that hit for morally void individuals.

Before Giggs is mentioned, infidelity is not a good look either, but it isn't a crime.
I believe he received the benefit of the doubt but it was a murky scandal all the same.
Definitely tarnished his image and his further behaviour has distanced him from the club.
 
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Ole's screen said:
Self harm only in football terms. I don’t expect my football club to represent any moral virtue beyond putting the best footballing side out to compete, pretty much regardless of their personal lives, unless they’re convicted of a crime.

My football club isn’t me. It doesn’t represent my values. And it never will.
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That’s a conveniently easy out.
 
Ole's screen said:
Self harm only in football terms. I don’t expect my football club to represent any moral virtue beyond putting the best footballing side out to compete, pretty much regardless of their personal lives, unless they’re convicted of a crime.

My football club isn’t me. It doesn’t represent my values. And it never will.
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Well luckily most others do. Football clubs are essentially communities for a lot of people.
 
Ole's screen said:
Self harm only in football terms. I don’t expect my football club to represent any moral virtue beyond putting the best footballing side out to compete, pretty much regardless of their personal lives, unless they’re convicted of a crime.

My football club isn’t me. It doesn’t represent my values. And it never will.
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You have a mother, right? A sister maybe?

Are you fine with them being abused so long as your team win a game of football?

And be honest.
 
Ole's screen said:
Do they? Or are you limiting it to just Manchester united fans on redcafe?

I’m not bringing up any older or current players that got indulged lest I be accused of whataboutism.
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:lol:

You think Redcafe has something to do with this? feck me, if us clowns on here have any say we are more fecked then we all thought :lol:

The club effectively sacked him, without losing out. Do you and all those who think like you, really believe it was just because of us on here? Because there is a much larger twitter mob from a continent who made their voices heard too. There's also staff and scouts on here who wanted him back.

Fact is he was never kicking a ball for us again since the evidence was put out there. EVIDENCE. Learn what that means before you bring up your pathetic attempts about others.
 
Ole's screen said:
Can I ask a question that has been bothering me since the whole thing started?

Why are we as a club expected to self harm in the name of moral standards when they don’t seem to apply to other clubs or Greenwood himself?
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Wow you must be the first person to ask this question in the thread...
 
Redlambs said:
:lol:

You think Redcafe has something to do with this? feck me, if us clowns on here have any say we are more fecked then we all thought :lol:

The club effectively sacked him, without losing out. Do you and all those who think like you, really believe it was just because of us on here? Because there is a much larger twitter mob from a continent who made their voices heard too. There's also staff and scouts on here who wanted him back.

Fact is he was never kicking a ball for us again since the evidence was put out there. EVIDENCE. Learn what that means before you bring up your pathetic attempts about others.
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We did lose out. We lost out on a potentially world class striker who could gave got us 100 million if we had been smarter about the situation.
 
Ole's screen said:
I’m done with this thread people are too emotional and ready with their pitchforks to have an actual discussion.
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Coward.

I've asked you reasonable questions. If you want to be a little bitch about it do that, but just know you are the one who ignored my question about your mother and sister...maybe even partner? What would you do, if any of those were abused by a footballer?
 
Damn people getting all emotional about that football player they heard audio of attempting to rape someone.
 
Clubs are always going to lose out in some ways, be it injuries, loss of form, players wanting to leave or crime. There's no avoiding it but clubs have to be prepared for that and need to be well run enough so that losing one player doesn't mean you're in dire straights.

I think that last point is partially why people can't just let go of Greenwood.
 
Ole's screen said:
I’m done with this thread people are too emotional and ready with their pitchforks to have an actual discussion.
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You can't come in here all "I'm just asking questions" and then decide you're done with the thread because you don't like the answers.

It tells me you only came in here for one reason and you knew the answers already.
 
horsechoker said:
Clubs are always going to lose out in some ways, be it injuries, loss of form, players wanting to leave or crime. There's no avoiding it but clubs have to be prepared for that and need to be well run enough so that losing one player doesn't mean you're in dire straights.

I think that last point is partially why people can't just let go of Greenwood.
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And those people need to wobble their heads.

Solius said:
You can't come in here all "I'm just asking questions" and then decide you're done with the thread because you don't like the answers.

It tells me you only came in here for one reason and you knew the answers already.
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Absolutely.

Come in here and make your case, talk to us. Just don't go crying when it turns out we don't all make excuses for grown adults who abuse their partners.
 
Rockets Redglare said:
I’ve fixed that for you.
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Redlambs said:
And those people need to wobble their heads.


Absolutely.

Come in here and make your case, talk to us. Just don't go crying when it turns out we don't all make excuses for grown adults who abuse their partners.
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You’re mistaking that this is about Greenwood when it’s not. Making a moral stand is all fine and good, I’m just pissed that we’re shit and he seems to be thriving.
 
Ole's screen said:
You’re mistaking that this is about Greenwood when it’s not. Making a moral stand is all fine and good, I’m just pissed that we’re shit and he seems to be thriving.
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As soon as you accept that him playing for us ever again is a complete non-starter I'm sure it will start getting easier to swallow. He could score a hat-trick every game and I'll still be at peace with the decision to sell him.

Plus abusers don't often change. There's nothing to say he won't do something similar again, and then it's some other club's issue.
 
Ole's screen said:
You’re mistaking that this is about Greenwood when it’s not. Making a moral stand is all fine and good, I’m just pissed that we’re shit and he seems to be thriving.
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Talk to me then. What is this really about?

And try to make your answer not about "morals" because I'm only going to then question you on what that means and embarrass you. You have the floor, talk to me and tell me your point of view and I promise to have an open mind:
 
Ole's screen said:
You’re mistaking that this is about Greenwood when it’s not. Making a moral stand is all fine and good, I’m just pissed that we’re shit and he seems to be thriving.
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And the conclusion is that, while you apparently don't expect any kind of morality from the club, many do - and enough do to make sure the club will never employ Greenwood again. That's the reality of it, and hence football considerations come second to this issue.

That's the answer really.
 
We all know he's a piece of shit do we really need reminding every five seconds?

I'm still interested in how he's doing as a footballer even so, and I don't see the two ideas as incompatible.

It'd be like on the Donald Trump thread if someone was responding to every post saying 'yeah but he's a stupid piece of shit' - what's the point? We all know that, that's not why most of us are on the thread.
 
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