Marcus Rashford (out)

Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Meh those critical posts were always drowned out every time he scored a goal, the crowd against him was always pretty far in the minority until basically last season.

I mean he went on one hot streak of scoring for 6 weeks and people were saying he's on Mbappe's level with a straight face.
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I think that if you go through the comments about Rashford on here - going all the way back to when he first emerged under LVG - you will find:

a) Plenty of doubt about his ceiling (he was never universally considered a "generational talent")

b) Plenty of frustration about his lack of consistency (purple patches versus weeks of rather mediocre performances)

c) Plenty of concerns about "laziness", lack of effort and so forth.

But - yes - of course Rashford has been a player many have put on a pedestal. Which is natural. He is a local lad. That means something - and it should mean something (if you ask me). Makes what we're seeing now all the more sad.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
I think that if you go through the comments about Rashford on here - going all the way back to when he first emerged under LVG - you will find:

a) Plenty of doubt about his ceiling (he was never universally considered a "generational talent")

b) Plenty of frustration about his lack of consistency (purple patches versus weeks of rather mediocre performances)

c) Plenty of concerns about "laziness", lack of effort and so forth.

But - yes - of course Rashford has been a player many have put on a pedestal. Which is natural. He is a local lad. That means something - and it should mean something (if you ask me). Makes what we're seeing now all the more sad.
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For the record, I’m not saying local academy players that breakthrough shouldn’t have huge rep or be special to fans.

But I do have an issue with viewing and treating them differently when it comes to standards for the club and hand waving issues away.
 
Tincanalley said:
I really like this post. Obviously there are big gaps in what we know. Is the truth closer to -
- Marcus puts in his usual bare minimum of effort and is so good that’s good enough. To his horror, Amorim requires 100% even in training. They fall out. Marcus wants out.

Or -
- There are darker, hidden issues or happenings which completely undermine squad discipline etc …
or -
- Ratcliffe is fed up with untenable wages and gets a ‘not putting shift in’ report from staff. Pushes MR towards exit, with Amorim agreeing.

I’d love to know the truth.
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I'll take "All of the Above" for $1000, Alex... Though I doubt his actions are darker or hidden, they're just consistent little "F You"s to the system that can't be tolerated by a serious football club when everyone is on the training pitch.
 
simonhch said:
I agree with all of these responses to the ridiculous post about "babyish behaviour" from Amorim. As takes on the situation go, that's one of the worst I've heard. Rashford has been excluded because his effort in training, and all the behaviour associated with his approach to professionalism etc., is below the standard required for a Manchester United player. The ONLY ways through that are to either (a) leave, or (b) raise your standards to those required.

Rashford clearly doesn't want to do (b) or it would've happened already. It's not difficult to go into work every day, with a positive, professional attitude, and give 100%. Especially when your job is playing fecking football. If a player thinks they are too good for that, or can't find the motivation to do it, then they serve zero purpose for the club. By reintegrating them into the team, you undercut everything you are trying to achieve in raising standards. "Hey everyone, if you don't give 100% and carry yourselves with the upmost professionalism, you won't be part of the team. Except Marcus of course, he can't be arsed but I'm putting him in the team anyway." Doesn't really have a ring to it.

No player is bigger than the club, and especially not a player that hasn't delivered anything of note in the last 18 months. Rashford, unfortunately, is the product of his environment. Here was a player who rose to prominence under famed disciplinarian Louis Van Gaal. He came onto the scene as an all action, tireless, forward. A player who made endless runs into the channels, pressing, behind the lines. Was constantly moving, and buzzing around. He was a real force of nature. He gradually started developing his game, filled out tremendously, became a really exciting and explosive inside forward....but over the OGS era, we started to see more and more player power come to the fore. It has reared it's head during the Mourinho era. OGS famously was fairly lax when it came to discipline and training. Preferring a more laissez-faire approach to the game. A move to "bring the joy back". And in fairness to him, he did very well for two seasons. But as he hit a rocky patch, the squad didn't have the discipline, grit, or determination to pull themselves out of it. The ended up as a bunch of moody, man-boys, who didn't want to do the hardwork and wanted everything their own way. Ragnick saw this when he came in, and was palpably shocked by the lack of professionalism throughout the squad.

Rashford never recovered from this. His key formative years were at his boyhood club, getting paid 300k+ a week, in an environment dominated by player power, overseen by an indulgent, profligate board who indulged his ridiculous attitude because he was a "star". Now reality has bitten. There is a whole new structure, no more indulgence of prima-donna's, exacting standards, sensible recruitment, resetting of cultural and professional standards, and a lot of the players are apparently not keen to conform. Those players have to go. Sancho is gone, Rashford will be next. It is their loss, not ours. Absolute ruthlessness is required. There is nothing to prevent Marcus from coming into training tomorrow, to pull the manager aside and say "Boss, I was wrong, I can see that now. I want to give it all, I want to be at this club, I want to learn, I want to improve, and you can count on me to give 100% every time I step onto the training field", and then to go out there an actually do it. Absolutely nothing to stop him from doing that except (a) his pride, (b) his attitude, or (c) his (lack of) motivation or ambition.

There is virtually no player I would indulge outside of the standards, except for perhaps peak Messi, or an iconic leader like Cantona.....but the reason those players were so good in the first place, is because they worked so hard and led by example. So it's a moot point. What you don't do is indulge and make exceptions for a player without 9 goals in past 60 games, who spends 90% of the game walking or trotting about.

There was a point in time where with Garnacho, Rashford, Greenwood and Martial, I thought United had potentially one of the best strike forces in the world. 3 from the academy, and one signed as a teen. They were to come to represent everything that was good about Manchester United. 3/4 are now abject failures in terms of this club, and a fifth young talent and major signing, Jadon Sancho, has gone the same way. In nearly every case, the problem hasn't been talent, it has been attitude, discipline, character, and work ethic etc. That should tell you everything you need to know about the type of culture we have had at this club for the last decade. How does one club produce so many top young talents, and then have all of those talents fall off because of off the field, or lack of application reasons? Unless there is a serious cultural problem at the club.....

The work Ineos and Amorim are doing to change the culture, is the single most important work done since Fergie left. It's more important than results right now, and it's more important than trophies this season. Anything we achieve in the short term (cup wins under ETH for example) are just papering over the cracks of a broken, rotten institution. Ineos are now fixing the foundations, and things will get ugly as a result. Players, big players, will leave. Results will suffer. Sacrifices will have to be made. Dirty laundry will be aired. The list goes on. But it is VITAL that we stay the course. That we reset and rebuild this club with the cast iron discipline and high standards that drove it to success over the 30 years Fergie was here. To be the best, to compete with the best, you have to have an environment that demands excellence in everything. That exudes application, dedication and hard work. That makes intelligent, data driven decisions, and uses facts rather than emotion to drive decision making.

Zero exceptions, zero tolerance for application underperformers, and a close knit culture. A player can play badly, and still be a part of the squad, if that player is giving 100% to the cause, and doing everything they can to improve. A player can play well, but be sold or dropped, if they are only giving 50 or 75%, but the effects of indulging that player, spreads to everyone and everything.

TL;DR - Sell Rashford.
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Take a bow.
 
simonhch said:
I agree with all of these responses to the ridiculous post about "babyish behaviour" from Amorim. As takes on the situation go, that's one of the worst I've heard. Rashford has been excluded because his effort in training, and all the behaviour associated with his approach to professionalism etc., is below the standard required for a Manchester United player. The ONLY ways through that are to either (a) leave, or (b) raise your standards to those required.

Rashford clearly doesn't want to do (b) or it would've happened already. It's not difficult to go into work every day, with a positive, professional attitude, and give 100%. Especially when your job is playing fecking football. If a player thinks they are too good for that, or can't find the motivation to do it, then they serve zero purpose for the club. By reintegrating them into the team, you undercut everything you are trying to achieve in raising standards. "Hey everyone, if you don't give 100% and carry yourselves with the upmost professionalism, you won't be part of the team. Except Marcus of course, he can't be arsed but I'm putting him in the team anyway." Doesn't really have a ring to it.

No player is bigger than the club, and especially not a player that hasn't delivered anything of note in the last 18 months. Rashford, unfortunately, is the product of his environment. Here was a player who rose to prominence under famed disciplinarian Louis Van Gaal. He came onto the scene as an all action, tireless, forward. A player who made endless runs into the channels, pressing, behind the lines. Was constantly moving, and buzzing around. He was a real force of nature. He gradually started developing his game, filled out tremendously, became a really exciting and explosive inside forward....but over the OGS era, we started to see more and more player power come to the fore. It has reared it's head during the Mourinho era. OGS famously was fairly lax when it came to discipline and training. Preferring a more laissez-faire approach to the game. A move to "bring the joy back". And in fairness to him, he did very well for two seasons. But as he hit a rocky patch, the squad didn't have the discipline, grit, or determination to pull themselves out of it. The ended up as a bunch of moody, man-boys, who didn't want to do the hardwork and wanted everything their own way. Ragnick saw this when he came in, and was palpably shocked by the lack of professionalism throughout the squad.

Rashford never recovered from this. His key formative years were at his boyhood club, getting paid 300k+ a week, in an environment dominated by player power, overseen by an indulgent, profligate board who indulged his ridiculous attitude because he was a "star". Now reality has bitten. There is a whole new structure, no more indulgence of prima-donna's, exacting standards, sensible recruitment, resetting of cultural and professional standards, and a lot of the players are apparently not keen to conform. Those players have to go. Sancho is gone, Rashford will be next. It is their loss, not ours. Absolute ruthlessness is required. There is nothing to prevent Marcus from coming into training tomorrow, to pull the manager aside and say "Boss, I was wrong, I can see that now. I want to give it all, I want to be at this club, I want to learn, I want to improve, and you can count on me to give 100% every time I step onto the training field", and then to go out there an actually do it. Absolutely nothing to stop him from doing that except (a) his pride, (b) his attitude, or (c) his (lack of) motivation or ambition.

There is virtually no player I would indulge outside of the standards, except for perhaps peak Messi, or an iconic leader like Cantona.....but the reason those players were so good in the first place, is because they worked so hard and led by example. So it's a moot point. What you don't do is indulge and make exceptions for a player without 9 goals in past 60 games, who spends 90% of the game walking or trotting about.

There was a point in time where with Garnacho, Rashford, Greenwood and Martial, I thought United had potentially one of the best strike forces in the world. 3 from the academy, and one signed as a teen. They were to come to represent everything that was good about Manchester United. 3/4 are now abject failures in terms of this club, and a fifth young talent and major signing, Jadon Sancho, has gone the same way. In nearly every case, the problem hasn't been talent, it has been attitude, discipline, character, and work ethic etc. That should tell you everything you need to know about the type of culture we have had at this club for the last decade. How does one club produce so many top young talents, and then have all of those talents fall off because of off the field, or lack of application reasons? Unless there is a serious cultural problem at the club.....

The work Ineos and Amorim are doing to change the culture, is the single most important work done since Fergie left. It's more important than results right now, and it's more important than trophies this season. Anything we achieve in the short term (cup wins under ETH for example) are just papering over the cracks of a broken, rotten institution. Ineos are now fixing the foundations, and things will get ugly as a result. Players, big players, will leave. Results will suffer. Sacrifices will have to be made. Dirty laundry will be aired. The list goes on. But it is VITAL that we stay the course. That we reset and rebuild this club with the cast iron discipline and high standards that drove it to success over the 30 years Fergie was here. To be the best, to compete with the best, you have to have an environment that demands excellence in everything. That exudes application, dedication and hard work. That makes intelligent, data driven decisions, and uses facts rather than emotion to drive decision making.

Zero exceptions, zero tolerance for application underperformers, and a close knit culture. A player can play badly, and still be a part of the squad, if that player is giving 100% to the cause, and doing everything they can to improve. A player can play well, but be sold or dropped, if they are only giving 50 or 75%, but the effects of indulging that player, spreads to everyone and everything.

TL;DR - Sell Rashford.
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Flabbergasted. Take a bow, serious modus operandi that. Hive mind needed with how we view ourselves as fans and our team.
Top post!
 
Never mind £50M, Arsenal could probably get him on a loan for the rest of the season with an obligation to buy for £35M in the summer.

Rashford needs a change of scenery. He would do well for Arsenal.
 
Rashford would be a good signing for Arsenal. Imagine him help the gunners win the Premier League, with a goal at Anfield.
 
Looks like Amorim has got the message from above, we can't unload him, start paving a way for him back into the team because you don't have a choice.

If he brings Rashford back in the team he might as well quit, all credibility gone.
 
soapythecat said:
Read what I said, you do t need to live in SA to work there. You think multi millionaire footballers care about any of the above? Ronaldo seemed like a decent lad and it doesn’t affect him.
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There is something beautiful about praising a rapist as a person, in a thread where people hate someone else for apparently not dedicating their life for other people's entertainment.
 
Utterly De Ligt'd said:
Looks like Amorim has got the message from above, we can't unload him, start paving a way for him back into the team because you don't have a choice.

If he brings Rashford back in the team he might as well quit, all credibility gone.
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It’s just the same message he’s said all along. I think you’re making it into more than it is.
 
It’s like his mentality changed when Sancho signed and was then subsequently exiled himself.
 
I wonder if Rashford gets paid commision from the journalists, given that he's 85% of their business nowadays.


Or maybe there's another quid pro quo there, I don't know.
 
Utterly De Ligt'd said:
Looks like Amorim has got the message from above, we can't unload him, start paving a way for him back into the team because you don't have a choice.

If he brings Rashford back in the team he might as well quit, all credibility gone.
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It does seem as though Rashford is going nowhere. If he is a Manchester United player on February Marcus will have to decide whether he will, or he won't, give maximum effort for his club. If he chooses the latter he will rot on the bench, or maybe not even on the bench, and Amorim will have the full support of club supporters as Rashford watched the last remnants of his credibility vanish.
 
lex talionis said:
It does seem as though Rashford is going nowhere. If he is a Manchester United player on February Marcus will have to decide whether he will, or he won't, give maximum effort for his club. If he chooses the latter he will rot on the bench, or maybe not even on the bench, and Amorim will have the full support of club supporters as Rashford watched the last remnants of his credibility vanish.
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He should have zero credibility anymore anyway. Not with our fans.

We’re talking about a player here who is supposed to be one of us, a through and through united supporter. Grew up a stones throw away. Paid more than practically any of our other players. And yet, he couldn’t give two shits.

This has been smacking our supporters in the face for years but some just have refused to see it.
 
RuudTom83 said:
Never mind £50M, Arsenal could probably get him on a loan for the rest of the season with an obligation to buy for £35M in the summer.

Rashford needs a change of scenery. He would do well for Arsenal.
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£35 would probably do it!
 
FriedClams said:
Prediction: Marcus goes nowhere, he slowly reintegrates with the squad, and makes a full admission that his application has not been good enough. He and Amorim get along, and Rashford reinvents himself as a #9. Lord knows the position is available, and throughout his time here he’s demonstrated he has the talent to play the role (remember that season where he started being amazing at headers)

he just has to want it. I have a funny feeling he’s gonna make changes in his personal life that lead to a more committed player on the field.

lol
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Nice :lol:
 
Berbaclass said:
Some new Barca links
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I am sure we can take a few players in return. Oh shot, we are broke too
pocco said:
He should have zero credibility anymore anyway. Not with our fans.

We’re talking about a player here who is supposed to be one of us, a through and through united supporter. Grew up a stones throw away. Paid more than practically any of our other players. And yet, he couldn’t give two shits.

This has been smacking our supporters in the face for years but some just have refused to see it.
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True. And to not look for a realistic move shows the issues he has
 
Acheron said:
I like how he's handling everything and trying to change the culture. As for Rashford he better take a paycut to play elsewhere.
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Ten Hag said stuff like this then ultimately bottled it when he realised he couldn't rely on any of his signings so I'm glad Amorim is just trying to get more out of the players he feels are doing the right things in training instead, even if we aren't winning games consistently. We have to start somewhere.
 
Utterly De Ligt'd said:
Looks like Amorim has got the message from above, we can't unload him, start paving a way for him back into the team because you don't have a choice.

If he brings Rashford back in the team he might as well quit, all credibility gone.
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It's the same message, he hasn't changed anything, but don't underestimate end of window desperateness from the likes of Tottenham or Arsenal.
 
crossy1686 said:
Ten Hag said stuff like this then ultimately bottled it when he realised he couldn't rely on any of his signings so I'm glad Amorim is just trying to get more out of the players he feels are doing the right things in training instead, even if we aren't winning games consistently. We have to start somewhere.
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It’s more than that, it’s setting standards. If the previously untouchable Rashford is out on his arse, they’ve all got to pull up their socks. I imagine that his application has long been fecking off the players who do care and have been putting the yards in.
 
GDaly95 said:
There's definitely a gap between what we know about his behaviour and the way he is being treated. Either he's just so unprofessional on a daily basis in a way we are not privy to or there was a one-off incident bad enough to banish him that we don't know about.
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Well he apparently lied to his face so that's going to seriously piss Amorim off like it would everyone else.
UnitedSofa said:
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Love the guy.
NotThatSoph said:
There is something beautiful about praising a rapist as a person, in a thread where people hate someone else for apparently not dedicating their life for other people's entertainment.
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Wtf?
 
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