Marcus Rashford (out)

sugar_kane said:
So has Bruno but he puts in a shift every single week.

Rashford is entitled to feel depressed or demotivated, it's been a dire state of affairs for a long time - but when you put pen to paper on a £300k+ a week contract then you are accepting that there will be high expectations and you need to work your arse off every week to justify getting paid so much.

If he can't stand the pressure or doesn't feel motivated enough to earn his wage then don't accept the contract and find a job that makes you happier, don't just take the money and expect to half arse it every week.
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He's only human though. Impossible to compare him to Bruno as people have different personalities. Rashfords not the sort to lift everyone, more the one who needs lifting himself. Not really his fault, some people just aren't leaders.

If someone puts a 300k a week in front of you, you aren't going to turn that down. Nobody would. He wouldn't have got that contract if the club weren't happy with what they were seeing out of him (he should never have been offered it in the first place but there you go)
 
Time for Marcus to walk the talk. If he really does love the club like he says he does, he'll meet half way to help find a compromise, so that the club can move on from him, and he can move on from the club. If he drags his feet, it'll only breed contempt for both sides and that's no good for anybody. Sometimes when you love something, you gotta let it go.
 
Tango80 said:
He's only human though. Impossible to compare him to Bruno as people have different personalities. Rashfords not the sort to lift everyone, more the one who needs lifting himself. Not really his fault, some people just aren't leaders.

If someone puts a 300k a week in front of you, you aren't going to turn that down. Nobody would. He wouldn't have got that contract if the club weren't happy with what they were seeing out of him (he should never have been offered it in the first place but there you go)
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It's not £300k or nothing though is it? It's £300k or maybe take half that at a lower pressure club and be much happier. Instead he got greedy and now we're expected to show him sympathy. He has a choice even now to walk away and take lower pay but he doesn't so my sympathy is limited.

I agree that it's unfair to compare him to Bruno personality wise as the latter is a freak in terms of energy and drive, but Rashford is paid elite wages and he should be bringing an elite mentality. He's a million miles from that at the moment.
 
sugar_kane said:
So has Bruno but he puts in a shift every single week.

Rashford is entitled to feel depressed or demotivated, it's been a dire state of affairs for a long time - but when you put pen to paper on a £300k+ a week contract then you are accepting that there will be high expectations and you need to work your arse off every week to justify getting paid so much.

If he can't stand the pressure or doesn't feel motivated enough to earn his wage then don't accept the contract and find a job that makes you happier, don't just take the money and expect to half arse it every week.



Did that actually happen? I'm fairly certain it was Garnacho who got shunted out to the right to keep Rashford in his favoured position.

Rashford himself has said he prefers playing outside left so I doubt he cared that Hojlund and Martial were in the CF position 'ahead' of him.
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Yeah initially it was Rashford on the right, was much later in the season before Garnacho was switched right and Rashford came back left, his form and attitude definitely dipped dramatically from the point he was put on the right.
 
Kaizane said:
Time for Marcus to walk the talk. If he really does love the club like he says he does, he'll meet half way to help find a compromise, so that the club can move on from him, and he can move on from the club. If he drags his feet, it'll only breed contempt for both sides and that's no good for anybody. Sometimes when you love something, you gotta let it go.
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This is a bit fanciful. He doesn't need to take a pay cut, he's well within his rights to stay on what he's earning.

This is the case for all players. Him, Casemiro, Anthony, De gea before him. If the club fecked up by giving them massive contracts, it's not on the player to fix that. Players voluntarily taking pay cuts very very rarely happens in football. Certainly not to the degree that we're talking here.
 
Tango80 said:
This is a bit fanciful. He doesn't need to take a pay cut, he's well within his rights to stay on what he's earning.

This is the case for all players. Him, Casemiro, Anthony, De gea before him. If the club fecked up by giving them massive contracts, it's not on the player to fix that. Players voluntarily taking pay cuts very very rarely happens in football. Certainly not to the degree that we're talking here.
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I generally agree but I think the point the poster was making, was that if Rashford is agitating for a move and wants to get his England place back then he maybe has to compromise when it seems like the sticking point is his salary, if like Casemiro he was happy just to sit on the bench and see out his contract then yeah I agree he would be well within his rights and the fault lies with the idiots that paid him over the odds
 
DarkLord1984 said:
Story of our club these days, being stuck with players on long contracts with enormous wages that we can't get rid of because they're shite and no one wants them.

The old upper management team did a great job at sabotaging our club.
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red_de_pologne said:
They really did, in 2 years managed to set us back for years with Rashford's new deal, Casemiro, Antony, Mount.

Players who for various reasons are not even close to playing for us are collecting upwards of 50M/year, with 200M+ spent on fees
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The crux of the matter right there......amongst other things of course!
 
Zed 101 said:
I generally agree but I think the point the poster was making, was that if Rashford is agitating for a move and wants to get his England place back then he maybe has to compromise when it seems like the sticking point is his salary, if like Casemiro he was happy just to sit on the bench and see out his contract then yeah I agree he would be well within his rights and the fault lies with the idiots that paid him over the odds
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I agree with that. Whether he stays or goes is entirely down to him.

Like I said he's well within his rights to stay here and pick up his wage, but he'll also be aware of the consequences of doing that.
 
Has every right to stay and collect his wage, its on the club to negotiate better deals. If he is happy to stay and not play, no bad word can be said about it.

But he said he wanted to leave after one game on the stands, and no one came for him.

So, there is no argument of him being "top class" player. He isn't. With this facts and mentality, only conclusion is that he is now a ex-player.

Fanboys like it or not, he is now a former footballer.
 
Tango80 said:
This is a bit fanciful. He doesn't need to take a pay cut, he's well within his rights to stay on what he's earning.

This is the case for all players. Him, Casemiro, Anthony, De gea before him. If the club fecked up by giving them massive contracts, it's not on the player to fix that. Players voluntarily taking pay cuts very very rarely happens in football. Certainly not to the degree that we're talking here.
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Yeah, it is fanciful, but all we've heard over the years from him is how much he loves the club, and now it's time for him to put into action that sentiment, because ironically, leaving would demonstrate that he has his and the club's best interests in mind, which actually does include his financial interests. Sure, he would make a tonne sitting out the remainder of his contract here doing nothing, but when that contract is over, the damage it would've done to his future earning potential (salaried and sponorships) would likely mean he earns less over total of his career, if he stays. Of course, these are fag packet calcs, but logically, I think it's probably true. He'd be half the player he is now, and who will go for that, who would want to sponsor that? He still has a good chunk of his career left to earn more after this contract if he got his head down from this point, and if that is where his motivation lies. Can't speak for his footballing aspirations, such is the enigma he is, I don't know if he still has any ambitions to win any major honours that have eluded him thus far, or it's money. Can't fault him if it's both, and that is unfortunately why where we are right now with him.
 
Kaizane said:
Yeah, it is fanciful, but all we've heard over the years from him is how much he loves the club, and now it's time for him to put into action that sentiment, because ironically, leaving would demonstrate that he has his and the club's best interests in mind, which actually does include his financial interests. Sure, he would make a tonne sitting out the remainder of his contract here doing nothing, but when that contract is over, the damage it would've done to his future earning potential (salaried and sponorships) would likely mean he earns less over total of his career, if he stays. Of course, these are fag packet calcs, but logically, I think it's probably true. He'd be half the player he is now, and who will go for that, who would want to sponsor that? He still has a good chunk of his career left to earn more after this contract if he got his head down from this point, and if that is where his motivation lies. Can't speak for his footballing aspirations, such is the enigma he is, I don't know if he still has any ambitions to win any major honours that have eluded him thus far, or it's money. Can't fault him if it's both, and that is unfortunately why where we are right now with him.
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There are many examples of the contrary as well. It happens all the time that players go to a smaller club to reignite their career und fail, reducing their chances for another lucrative contract even further. Sometimes it's strange how much a good player's quality drops over the course of a few seasons but maybe he feels he doesn't have that level in him anymore and wants to collect all the money he can.
 
Rooney saying this has been going on for over two years. People abuse fans all the time for not knowing anything. But for me this is just another example that very few people know as much as people who have watch their team every week. It has been obvious for a while that his attitude has deteriarated and fans have been saying it for years now.
 
Berbaclass said:
Damn

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I can already picture it. "Marcus said no to multiple clubs because he was loyal to United" will probably be the way this entire shit show gets framed in a few years by some random poster, and we'll have to watch as several people try to correct them and are met with a brick wall of stubbornness that goes on for months on end.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
I can already picture it. "Marcus said no to multiple clubs because he was loyal to United" will probably be the way this entire shit show gets framed in a few years by some random poster, and we'll have to watch as several people try to correct them and are met with a brick wall of stubbornness that goes on for months on end.
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There will be an extra bit in their about his own sense of "social justice and equality" while in reality he buys another Mansory monstrosity
 
Freak said:
This has to be a reality check for him. Wanted to leave, clubs not willing to pay for him.
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You’d have thought so but I just can’t see it. At least not enough for him to perform consistently.

Not looking forward to the inevitable PR piece in the next week or two about how committed to the club he is.
 
Adisa said:
Rooney saying this has been going on for over two years. People abuse fans all the time for not knowing anything. But for me this is just another example that very few people know as much as people who have watch their team every week. It has been obvious for a while that his attitude has deteriarated and fans have been saying it for years now.
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The clip for those interested.

2 years is ridiculous stuff.
 
Freak said:
This has to be a reality check for him. Wanted to leave, clubs not willing to pay for him.
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I wonder how good his agent is, think he's represented by his brother?

I'd imagine an agent that's a bit more bonafide in the industry would have got a deal done here
 
He and his rabble won’t accept a pay cut. That’s the core reason he won’t leave. He may well have made a positive difference to lives of many kids, but he’s a fecking parasite as a footballer and employee.
 
Annihilate Now! said:


The clip for those interested.

2 years is ridiculous stuff.
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From what Rooney is saying, there is no way this club has not imposed on managers, directly or indirectly when it comes to Rashford. I think managers have been told explicitly to make it work. Because how can a player do this for over two years and still start games consistently?
 
It’s the fact he has no conscience about what he is doing and how that reflects on his character and the type of example and influence he is having on the younger players in the squad.

To be paid that much money and not even have guilt about training so badly is such a poor reflection of him as a person.
 
Gandalf Greyhame said:
I have no idea why this point is equivalent to insulting someone's intelligence. What you strongly claim in contradiction to a post is NOT clear and obvious, I'm asking you to explain your view. I'm not, say, asking you to explain why 2+2=4 - that would insulting your intelligence (or mine). On the other hand, I do think it is strange when you make a throwaway comment contradicting them and refuse to elaborate.

Anyways, I am actually curious about the timeline, so I went looking for the 'cultural reboot' piece that I remember reading.


My version was this piece by Jamie Jackson in the Guardian, published on 16th December after him and Garnacho were dropped for the derby win. Rashford's Winter piece came out on the 18th, 2 days later.
There's some strong language in the article:




But there are no sources at all backing it up, and the reasoning is seemed to be based on a 'feeling' at the club.



In the very article, Jackson backtracks with a contradiction.



So either Amorim thought Rashford's time is up and he has no place, or he thought Rashford could make his way to the squad. Which was it? We never found out because Rashford did the Winter piece two days later. But my read (and what I think is a sensible read given the state of the British media and Jamie Jackson's reputation for sensationalism) is that Jamie Jackson doesn't know, because he's speculating and he has no sources. I'd rather believe the (excessively so) honest head coach.

More evidence? Jamie Jackson's own words in a later article on 26 Jan called 'Ruben Amorim’s struggle for goals not helped by Marcus Rashford’s exile'



'Unless Ratcliffe informed'? So he doesn't know, which means the previous article was speculation, as well. It's just shitty 'jornalism' with no explicit boundaries between opinion and reporting. I wouldn't be surprised if Rashford himself read the same cultural reboot article and thought it was a club briefing, leading to him being disillusioned two days later.

The point is, the club did NOT have a briefing where they put up Rashford for sale, at least not before his Winter piece. You're being misled by poor journalism.
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@NotThatSoph still waiting for a response to this. You said it was clear that the club had briefed the press based on that article, I have shown that's not true - at least not based on this article.
 
Gandalf Greyhame said:
@NotThatSoph still waiting for a response to this. You said it was clear that the club had briefed the press based on that article, I have shown that's not true - at least not based on this article.
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I already started off pretty rude, so I decided to just dip out instead of continuing. I find your attempted reasoning, both in that comment and this earlier one, so incredibly bizarre that I don't even know what to say. We are living in different worlds, where words and concepts don't mean the same thing, so communicating is a waste of time.
 
Gandalf Greyhame said:
That is neither clear nor visibly true. All we publicly know is that Rashford and Garnacho were both dropped and asked to show more in training. One of them clearly complied and is starting games for us despite being up for sale. The other immediately did a private journalistic interview where he said he wanted a new challenge. What we see is that Rashford asked for the move. That was the action, not the reaction.

It may have been a reaction to the club silently but explicitly putting him up for sale and telling his camp that he was not in their plans *before* the Winter piece. We don't know, but if we had to guess that it's extremely unlikely because (a) Rashford's PR would have highlighted that immediately, (b) Amorim would not have said his being dropped is solely due to effort in training, and not talked about how we needed Rashford'd qualities instead, and (c) we see with Garnacho that being up for sale does not stop this manager from picking you.

So sure, we don't completely know, but all available info strongly seems to suggest that Rashford blindsided the club with exit talk in that Winter piece.
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Well Rashford being lazy isn't new though, it has been going on for years. The difference is that he's been called out for it, and dropped.
 
Just throwing this out there but...... do we think Ineos are ruthless enough to have told Amorim to deliberately distance Rashy in an effort to force him to leave to save the wages and or get a few quid in, knowing his star has faded??
 
TrailMonkey said:
He and his rabble won’t accept a pay cut. That’s the core reason he won’t leave. He may well have made a positive difference to lives of many kids, but he’s a fecking parasite as a footballer and employee.
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The club has benefited monetarily far more from Rashford than he has from them; calling him a parasite is either disingenuous at best or asinine at worst.
 
Adisa said:
From what Rooney is saying, there is no way this club has not imposed on managers, directly or indirectly when it comes to Rashford. I think managers have been told explicitly to make it work. Because how can a player do this for over two years and still start games consistently?
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Wayne almost looks exasperated when he says that he's told him he has to move out of the club. I hardly ever remember him speaking that candidly about anyone he talks to personally.
 
Red_Aaron said:
I wonder how good his agent is, think he's represented by his brother?

I'd imagine an agent that's a bit more bonafide in the industry would have got a deal done here
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Yeah, representing someone who wants to stay at a club isn't the same as representing someone looking for a new club. Players typically change their agents when they want a move. Highly doubtful Marcus's brother has the contacts to arrange a transfer.
 
Rooneys comment about it being like this for years is the important one.

It should be stated that aside from 2 or 3 months after the Qatar World Cup in ETHs first season Rashford has looked miserable here for almost 4 years. You go back to the 21/22 season and Rashford was lazy on the pitch and playing terribly. There were loads of stories back then I seem to remember along the lines of "Rashford considering his future". This fallout with Amorim isn't some shocking out of the blue situation. It's been brewing for a long time, it's just now we have a manager and ownership structure that means it can be addressed at last.

He's been playing like someone who has completely checked out, particularly after the big contract. Why he signed that when he's looked so miserable here for years I'm not sure, is it just that we offered him huge money?
 
Maluco said:
It’s the fact he has no conscience about what he is doing and how that reflects on his character and the type of example and influence he is having on the younger players in the squad.

To be paid that much money and not even have guilt about training so badly is such a poor reflection of him as a person.
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Probably more to do with a disconnection from reality by being surrounded by yes men rather than any moral failings.
 
If he is that bad of a trainer, how is it that he is not removed from training or made to train with the reserves? I don't get it.
 
Djemba-Djemba said:
Rooneys comment about it being like this for years is the important one.

It should be stated that aside from 2 or 3 months after the Qatar World Cup in ETHs first season Rashford has looked miserable here for almost 4 years. You go back to the 21/22 season and Rashford was lazy on the pitch and playing terribly. There were loads of stories back then I seem to remember along the lines of "Rashford considering his future". This fallout with Amorim isn't some shocking out of the blue situation. It's been brewing for a long time, it's just now we have a manager and ownership structure that means it can be addressed at last.

He's been playing like someone who has completely checked out, particularly after the big contract. Why he signed that when he's looked so miserable here for years I'm not sure, is it just that we offered him huge money?
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This. Reminder that he had to come out with a statement to defend himself with "I do care", "I love this club" etc right after the Europa League final loss. He showed the same attitude on the pitch even back then, but had so much goodwill from fans and media that the criticism faded away fast. In hindsight it was a clear indication of what to expect on a regular basis.
 
sugar_kane said:
I agree that it's unfair to compare him to Bruno personality wise as the latter is a freak in terms of energy and drive, but Rashford is paid elite wages and he should be bringing an elite mentality. He's a million miles from that at the moment.
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Rashford is likely either paid roughly the same basic wages as Bruno - or more.

(Based on a number of sources - dependability varying etc. But I haven't come across a single source having Rashford below Bruno.)
 
Vidooq said:
If he is that bad of a trainer, how is it that he is not removed from training or made to train with the reserves? I don't get it.
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Just guessing ….perhaps he has in his contract Utd can’t force him to train with reserves?
 
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