Marcus Rashford (out)

I agree with all of these responses to the ridiculous post about "babyish behaviour" from Amorim. As takes on the situation go, that's one of the worst I've heard. Rashford has been excluded because his effort in training, and all the behaviour associated with his approach to professionalism etc., is below the standard required for a Manchester United player. The ONLY ways through that are to either (a) leave, or (b) raise your standards to those required.

Rashford clearly doesn't want to do (b) or it would've happened already. It's not difficult to go into work every day, with a positive, professional attitude, and give 100%. Especially when your job is playing fecking football. If a player thinks they are too good for that, or can't find the motivation to do it, then they serve zero purpose for the club. By reintegrating them into the team, you undercut everything you are trying to achieve in raising standards. "Hey everyone, if you don't give 100% and carry yourselves with the upmost professionalism, you won't be part of the team. Except Marcus of course, he can't be arsed but I'm putting him in the team anyway." Doesn't really have a ring to it.

No player is bigger than the club, and especially not a player that hasn't delivered anything of note in the last 18 months. Rashford, unfortunately, is the product of his environment. Here was a player who rose to prominence under famed disciplinarian Louis Van Gaal. He came onto the scene as an all action, tireless, forward. A player who made endless runs into the channels, pressing, behind the lines. Was constantly moving, and buzzing around. He was a real force of nature. He gradually started developing his game, filled out tremendously, became a really exciting and explosive inside forward....but over the OGS era, we started to see more and more player power come to the fore. It has reared it's head during the Mourinho era. OGS famously was fairly lax when it came to discipline and training. Preferring a more laissez-faire approach to the game. A move to "bring the joy back". And in fairness to him, he did very well for two seasons. But as he hit a rocky patch, the squad didn't have the discipline, grit, or determination to pull themselves out of it. The ended up as a bunch of moody, man-boys, who didn't want to do the hardwork and wanted everything their own way. Ragnick saw this when he came in, and was palpably shocked by the lack of professionalism throughout the squad.

Rashford never recovered from this. His key formative years were at his boyhood club, getting paid 300k+ a week, in an environment dominated by player power, overseen by an indulgent, profligate board who indulged his ridiculous attitude because he was a "star". Now reality has bitten. There is a whole new structure, no more indulgence of prima-donna's, exacting standards, sensible recruitment, resetting of cultural and professional standards, and a lot of the players are apparently not keen to conform. Those players have to go. Sancho is gone, Rashford will be next. It is their loss, not ours. Absolute ruthlessness is required. There is nothing to prevent Marcus from coming into training tomorrow, to pull the manager aside and say "Boss, I was wrong, I can see that now. I want to give it all, I want to be at this club, I want to learn, I want to improve, and you can count on me to give 100% every time I step onto the training field", and then to go out there an actually do it. Absolutely nothing to stop him from doing that except (a) his pride, (b) his attitude, or (c) his (lack of) motivation or ambition.

There is virtually no player I would indulge outside of the standards, except for perhaps peak Messi, or an iconic leader like Cantona.....but the reason those players were so good in the first place, is because they worked so hard and led by example. So it's a moot point. What you don't do is indulge and make exceptions for a player without 9 goals in past 60 games, who spends 90% of the game walking or trotting about.

There was a point in time where with Garnacho, Rashford, Greenwood and Martial, I thought United had potentially one of the best strike forces in the world. 3 from the academy, and one signed as a teen. They were to come to represent everything that was good about Manchester United. 3/4 are now abject failures in terms of this club, and a fifth young talent and major signing, Jadon Sancho, has gone the same way. In nearly every case, the problem hasn't been talent, it has been attitude, discipline, character, and work ethic etc. That should tell you everything you need to know about the type of culture we have had at this club for the last decade. How does one club produce so many top young talents, and then have all of those talents fall off because of off the field, or lack of application reasons? Unless there is a serious cultural problem at the club.....

The work Ineos and Amorim are doing to change the culture, is the single most important work done since Fergie left. It's more important than results right now, and it's more important than trophies this season. Anything we achieve in the short term (cup wins under ETH for example) are just papering over the cracks of a broken, rotten institution. Ineos are now fixing the foundations, and things will get ugly as a result. Players, big players, will leave. Results will suffer. Sacrifices will have to be made. Dirty laundry will be aired. The list goes on. But it is VITAL that we stay the course. That we reset and rebuild this club with the cast iron discipline and high standards that drove it to success over the 30 years Fergie was here. To be the best, to compete with the best, you have to have an environment that demands excellence in everything. That exudes application, dedication and hard work. That makes intelligent, data driven decisions, and uses facts rather than emotion to drive decision making.

Zero exceptions, zero tolerance for application underperformers, and a close knit culture. A player can play badly, and still be a part of the squad, if that player is giving 100% to the cause, and doing everything they can to improve. A player can play well, but be sold or dropped, if they are only giving 50 or 75%, but the effects of indulging that player, spreads to everyone and everything.

TL;DR - Sell Rashford.
Amen
 
I feel like a mutually beneficial agreement between the club and Marcus could have been easily crafted here. If Marcus wants to leave / he doesn’t fit the new system and can’t change, then that’s a shame, but fine. It doesn’t speak well of either party that we’ve ended up here, with an expensive, worthless asset we can’t sell.

Surely he understands it benefits him massively to work hard and look as good as possible to potential suitors. Instead he’s not responded to his manager’s comments about his attitude/work ethic at all, he’s just sloped off into a corner where he delusionally awaits calls from Europe’s elite. He is being very badly advised.

It’s the worst of all worlds: we have someone who is no use to the club sucking up much needed resources and a player who has tossed a very promising career away. Misery all around, really.
 
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If only he did think that.

The thing most fans and pundits, and football directors, haven't come to terms with yet is that there are footballers like Rashford who will never really give a shit about football. Rashford wanted to achieve a certain lifestyle and his football was always a means to that end. When we put a £90m contract in front of him that lifestyle was secured. More and more players are becoming like this.
It wasn’t even a full good season either. He and his entourage swindled the club for that contract big time. Everyone with half a brain could see it was such a poor decision because he has never had a full consistently good season with the club.
Like Mitten said that all managers had issues with him, but still the incompetent old board gave him that contract.
 
As above, it's a bit more. Than the £225k
Even at £243k/week I find it unlikely anyone is going to stump up half of that for a loan for him. This is a guy who visibly hasn't been arsed since he got his improved contract a couple of years ago.
 
Why though? We've seen him walking and jogging about, on the field, for the best part of 18 months+ now (probably even longer). Plus the night outs and being fined/dropped for breaking the rules, ill-discipline etc. Why is Amorim's side of the story so hard to believe if we've all witnessed it before our very own eyes?

The players are tracked and the data is analysed both in training and games. If Amorim says he's not putting the effort in, he's got the data to back that up.

Rashford's PR machine has nothing.
 
The players are tracked and the data is analysed both in training and games. If Amorim says he's not putting the effort in, he's got the data to back that up.

Rashford's PR machine has nothing.
Yeah, I'm absolutely sure that's the case (or hell, Amorim wouldn't risk pulling that stunt if he's lying - because he'd risk losing the rest of the players in an instant if that were the case). I'm just more surprised that our own fans, who've watched us 100's of times over the last 2-3 years, could still be "confused" about Rashfords work rate/effort etc.
 
Yeah, I'm absolutely sure that's the case (or hell, Amorim wouldn't risk pulling that stunt if he's lying - because he'd risk losing the rest of the players in an instant if that were the case). I'm just more surprised that our own fans, who've watched us 100's of times over the last 2-3 years, could still be "confused" about Rashfords work rate/effort etc.

Totally this.

I remember when me and 3 mates used to go to interval training classes at the gym, where we all wore heart rate monitors and the effort levels etc were displayed on screen. We had one mate who always hung about at the back, pretending to work hard and he’d always be called out by the instructor for not trying hard enough. And that was for a bunch of middle aged blokes.

Rashford and the rest of the team are elite athletes, with every single bit of data available to the fitness team. If the manager says he’s not training hard enough then that’s backed up with a million pieces of data. It’s not just his opinion. It’s fact. And thank feck we now have a manager who will call out this behaviour.
 
Yeah, I'm absolutely sure that's the case (or hell, Amorim wouldn't risk pulling that stunt if he's lying - because he'd risk losing the rest of the players in an instant if that were the case). I'm just more surprised that our own fans, who've watched us 100's of times over the last 2-3 years, could still be "confused" about Rashfords work rate/effort etc.

I’d be fairly certain that Amorim is going on the “eye test” only. He’s been extremely vague about the problems in training and usually directs the conversation away from focussing solely on that - on Sunday for example his quote was:

“The reasons is the training, the way I see what a footballer should do. In training, in life and it's every day, every detail. So if things don't change, I will not change. It's the same situation for every player. If you do the maximum, if you do the right things, we can use every player."

Note the reference to lifestyle as well in there. I suspect we’d have had something a bit more focussed if there was direct evidence that Rashford was training worse than everyone else.
 
I’d be fairly certain that Amorim is going on the “eye test” only. He’s been extremely vague about the problems in training and usually directs the conversation away from focussing solely on that - on Sunday for example his quote was:

“The reasons is the training, the way I see what a footballer should do. In training, in life and it's every day, every detail. So if things don't change, I will not change. It's the same situation for every player. If you do the maximum, if you do the right things, we can use every player."

Note the reference to lifestyle as well in there. I suspect we’d have had something a bit more focussed if there was direct evidence that Rashford was training worse than everyone else.
I’d be fairly certain that pretty wild speculation is wrong. You have established facts: a team full of coaches with a bus load full of data equipment monitoring every traing and every match. You have 27 out of 28 players getting game time and squad picks regularily enough, and you have 1 out of 28 consistently out of squads altogether. You have the main coach referencing effort as the reason why 1 is singled out.

Dismissing all that as irrelevant on the basis of the fact that the word ‘lifestyle’ also was included among many factors in one interview is a pretty skewed way of looking at the facts IMO.
 
I agree with all of these responses to the ridiculous post about "babyish behaviour" from Amorim. As takes on the situation go, that's one of the worst I've heard. Rashford has been excluded because his effort in training, and all the behaviour associated with his approach to professionalism etc., is below the standard required for a Manchester United player. The ONLY ways through that are to either (a) leave, or (b) raise your standards to those required.

Rashford clearly doesn't want to do (b) or it would've happened already. It's not difficult to go into work every day, with a positive, professional attitude, and give 100%. Especially when your job is playing fecking football. If a player thinks they are too good for that, or can't find the motivation to do it, then they serve zero purpose for the club. By reintegrating them into the team, you undercut everything you are trying to achieve in raising standards. "Hey everyone, if you don't give 100% and carry yourselves with the upmost professionalism, you won't be part of the team. Except Marcus of course, he can't be arsed but I'm putting him in the team anyway." Doesn't really have a ring to it.

No player is bigger than the club, and especially not a player that hasn't delivered anything of note in the last 18 months. Rashford, unfortunately, is the product of his environment. Here was a player who rose to prominence under famed disciplinarian Louis Van Gaal. He came onto the scene as an all action, tireless, forward. A player who made endless runs into the channels, pressing, behind the lines. Was constantly moving, and buzzing around. He was a real force of nature. He gradually started developing his game, filled out tremendously, became a really exciting and explosive inside forward....but over the OGS era, we started to see more and more player power come to the fore. It has reared it's head during the Mourinho era. OGS famously was fairly lax when it came to discipline and training. Preferring a more laissez-faire approach to the game. A move to "bring the joy back". And in fairness to him, he did very well for two seasons. But as he hit a rocky patch, the squad didn't have the discipline, grit, or determination to pull themselves out of it. The ended up as a bunch of moody, man-boys, who didn't want to do the hardwork and wanted everything their own way. Ragnick saw this when he came in, and was palpably shocked by the lack of professionalism throughout the squad.

Rashford never recovered from this. His key formative years were at his boyhood club, getting paid 300k+ a week, in an environment dominated by player power, overseen by an indulgent, profligate board who indulged his ridiculous attitude because he was a "star". Now reality has bitten. There is a whole new structure, no more indulgence of prima-donna's, exacting standards, sensible recruitment, resetting of cultural and professional standards, and a lot of the players are apparently not keen to conform. Those players have to go. Sancho is gone, Rashford will be next. It is their loss, not ours. Absolute ruthlessness is required. There is nothing to prevent Marcus from coming into training tomorrow, to pull the manager aside and say "Boss, I was wrong, I can see that now. I want to give it all, I want to be at this club, I want to learn, I want to improve, and you can count on me to give 100% every time I step onto the training field", and then to go out there an actually do it. Absolutely nothing to stop him from doing that except (a) his pride, (b) his attitude, or (c) his (lack of) motivation or ambition.

There is virtually no player I would indulge outside of the standards, except for perhaps peak Messi, or an iconic leader like Cantona.....but the reason those players were so good in the first place, is because they worked so hard and led by example. So it's a moot point. What you don't do is indulge and make exceptions for a player without 9 goals in past 60 games, who spends 90% of the game walking or trotting about.

There was a point in time where with Garnacho, Rashford, Greenwood and Martial, I thought United had potentially one of the best strike forces in the world. 3 from the academy, and one signed as a teen. They were to come to represent everything that was good about Manchester United. 3/4 are now abject failures in terms of this club, and a fifth young talent and major signing, Jadon Sancho, has gone the same way. In nearly every case, the problem hasn't been talent, it has been attitude, discipline, character, and work ethic etc. That should tell you everything you need to know about the type of culture we have had at this club for the last decade. How does one club produce so many top young talents, and then have all of those talents fall off because of off the field, or lack of application reasons? Unless there is a serious cultural problem at the club.....

The work Ineos and Amorim are doing to change the culture, is the single most important work done since Fergie left. It's more important than results right now, and it's more important than trophies this season. Anything we achieve in the short term (cup wins under ETH for example) are just papering over the cracks of a broken, rotten institution. Ineos are now fixing the foundations, and things will get ugly as a result. Players, big players, will leave. Results will suffer. Sacrifices will have to be made. Dirty laundry will be aired. The list goes on. But it is VITAL that we stay the course. That we reset and rebuild this club with the cast iron discipline and high standards that drove it to success over the 30 years Fergie was here. To be the best, to compete with the best, you have to have an environment that demands excellence in everything. That exudes application, dedication and hard work. That makes intelligent, data driven decisions, and uses facts rather than emotion to drive decision making.

Zero exceptions, zero tolerance for application underperformers, and a close knit culture. A player can play badly, and still be a part of the squad, if that player is giving 100% to the cause, and doing everything they can to improve. A player can play well, but be sold or dropped, if they are only giving 50 or 75%, but the effects of indulging that player, spreads to everyone and everything.

TL;DR - Sell Rashford.
This belongs in a newspaper.
Your choice of words and writing skills are impeccable.
 
And thank feck we now have a manager who will call out this behaviour.

I think that perhaps this isn't just the current manager, its the current leadership. The Glazers clearly didn't particularly care about the football side of things or they wouldn't have made such a mess of it with seemingly little effort to correct it outside of throwing silly money at it. They saw the club as a marketing vehicle. INEOS and Ratcliffe clearly have a few more braincells and realise that if you want to make money as a club then you have to do well on the pitch and spend wisely.

I would bet quite a lot of money on the fact that previous managers have been told in no uncertain terms that Rashford is the future and image of the club and is to be treated as such.
 
Why though? We've seen him walking and jogging about, on the field, for the best part of 18 months+ now (probably even longer). Plus the night outs and being fined/dropped for breaking the rules, ill-discipline etc. Why is Amorim's side of the story so hard to believe if we've all witnessed it before our very own eyes?
This is why he’s not playing. Here he is, pressing.

 
Seems we’re the only club whose players are not tempted by Saudi. I know we shipped Bailly and Telles there, but the bigger earners just haven’t happened for us yet.

The thing with money, is either you are money motivated - in which case you should go to Saudi, or you are motivated by football , and you lower your wages to go to the club of your choosing.
 
Seems we’re the only club whose players are not tempted by Saudi. I know we shipped Bailly and Telles there, but the bigger earners just haven’t happened for us yet.

The thing with money, is either you are money motivated - in which case you should go to Saudi, or you are motivated by football , and you lower your wages to go to the club of your choosing.
They don’t have to go to Saudi. They’re on Saudi money and not playing here, in a respected league that doesn’t have a reputation for ‘going for the money’, when the reality that’s all they’re doing unofficially.
 
This is why he’s not playing. Here he is, pressing.



I think it’s more to do with the fact that he isn’t scoring rather than isn’t defending. I’m still not comfortable with this ‘defending first’ approach to forward players in today’s game, and I’d like to think that if Rashford still scored 30+ goals a season, nobody, including his coach, would be particularly concerned about his pressing.
 
I think it’s more to do with the fact that he isn’t scoring rather than isn’t defending. I’m still not comfortable with this ‘defending first’ approach to forward players in today’s game, and I’d like to think that if Rashford still scored 30+ goals a season, nobody, including his coach, would be particularly concerned about his pressing.
I prefer my forward to be forwards also but the game has totally changed in the last 10 years or so. Look at Haaland, Pep digs him out all the time for not pressing, Mbappe gets loads of shit for being lazy. Messi and Neymar even got it at PSG.

To be competitive at an elite level these days the forwards have to lead the line defensively also.
 
I agree with all of these responses to the ridiculous post about "babyish behaviour" from Amorim. As takes on the situation go, that's one of the worst I've heard. Rashford has been excluded because his effort in training, and all the behaviour associated with his approach to professionalism etc., is below the standard required for a Manchester United player. The ONLY ways through that are to either (a) leave, or (b) raise your standards to those required.

Rashford clearly doesn't want to do (b) or it would've happened already. It's not difficult to go into work every day, with a positive, professional attitude, and give 100%. Especially when your job is playing fecking football. If a player thinks they are too good for that, or can't find the motivation to do it, then they serve zero purpose for the club. By reintegrating them into the team, you undercut everything you are trying to achieve in raising standards. "Hey everyone, if you don't give 100% and carry yourselves with the upmost professionalism, you won't be part of the team. Except Marcus of course, he can't be arsed but I'm putting him in the team anyway." Doesn't really have a ring to it.

No player is bigger than the club, and especially not a player that hasn't delivered anything of note in the last 18 months. Rashford, unfortunately, is the product of his environment. Here was a player who rose to prominence under famed disciplinarian Louis Van Gaal. He came onto the scene as an all action, tireless, forward. A player who made endless runs into the channels, pressing, behind the lines. Was constantly moving, and buzzing around. He was a real force of nature. He gradually started developing his game, filled out tremendously, became a really exciting and explosive inside forward....but over the OGS era, we started to see more and more player power come to the fore. It has reared it's head during the Mourinho era. OGS famously was fairly lax when it came to discipline and training. Preferring a more laissez-faire approach to the game. A move to "bring the joy back". And in fairness to him, he did very well for two seasons. But as he hit a rocky patch, the squad didn't have the discipline, grit, or determination to pull themselves out of it. The ended up as a bunch of moody, man-boys, who didn't want to do the hardwork and wanted everything their own way. Ragnick saw this when he came in, and was palpably shocked by the lack of professionalism throughout the squad.

Rashford never recovered from this. His key formative years were at his boyhood club, getting paid 300k+ a week, in an environment dominated by player power, overseen by an indulgent, profligate board who indulged his ridiculous attitude because he was a "star". Now reality has bitten. There is a whole new structure, no more indulgence of prima-donna's, exacting standards, sensible recruitment, resetting of cultural and professional standards, and a lot of the players are apparently not keen to conform. Those players have to go. Sancho is gone, Rashford will be next. It is their loss, not ours. Absolute ruthlessness is required. There is nothing to prevent Marcus from coming into training tomorrow, to pull the manager aside and say "Boss, I was wrong, I can see that now. I want to give it all, I want to be at this club, I want to learn, I want to improve, and you can count on me to give 100% every time I step onto the training field", and then to go out there an actually do it. Absolutely nothing to stop him from doing that except (a) his pride, (b) his attitude, or (c) his (lack of) motivation or ambition.

There is virtually no player I would indulge outside of the standards, except for perhaps peak Messi, or an iconic leader like Cantona.....but the reason those players were so good in the first place, is because they worked so hard and led by example. So it's a moot point. What you don't do is indulge and make exceptions for a player without 9 goals in past 60 games, who spends 90% of the game walking or trotting about.

There was a point in time where with Garnacho, Rashford, Greenwood and Martial, I thought United had potentially one of the best strike forces in the world. 3 from the academy, and one signed as a teen. They were to come to represent everything that was good about Manchester United. 3/4 are now abject failures in terms of this club, and a fifth young talent and major signing, Jadon Sancho, has gone the same way. In nearly every case, the problem hasn't been talent, it has been attitude, discipline, character, and work ethic etc. That should tell you everything you need to know about the type of culture we have had at this club for the last decade. How does one club produce so many top young talents, and then have all of those talents fall off because of off the field, or lack of application reasons? Unless there is a serious cultural problem at the club.....

The work Ineos and Amorim are doing to change the culture, is the single most important work done since Fergie left. It's more important than results right now, and it's more important than trophies this season. Anything we achieve in the short term (cup wins under ETH for example) are just papering over the cracks of a broken, rotten institution. Ineos are now fixing the foundations, and things will get ugly as a result. Players, big players, will leave. Results will suffer. Sacrifices will have to be made. Dirty laundry will be aired. The list goes on. But it is VITAL that we stay the course. That we reset and rebuild this club with the cast iron discipline and high standards that drove it to success over the 30 years Fergie was here. To be the best, to compete with the best, you have to have an environment that demands excellence in everything. That exudes application, dedication and hard work. That makes intelligent, data driven decisions, and uses facts rather than emotion to drive decision making.

Zero exceptions, zero tolerance for application underperformers, and a close knit culture. A player can play badly, and still be a part of the squad, if that player is giving 100% to the cause, and doing everything they can to improve. A player can play well, but be sold or dropped, if they are only giving 50 or 75%, but the effects of indulging that player, spreads to everyone and everything.

TL;DR - Sell Rashford.
Hear hear!
 
Totally this.

I remember when me and 3 mates used to go to interval training classes at the gym, where we all wore heart rate monitors and the effort levels etc were displayed on screen. We had one mate who always hung about at the back, pretending to work hard and he’d always be called out by the instructor for not trying hard enough. And that was for a bunch of middle aged blokes.

Rashford and the rest of the team are elite athletes, with every single bit of data available to the fitness team. If the manager says he’s not training hard enough then that’s backed up with a million pieces of data. It’s not just his opinion. It’s fact. And thank feck we now have a manager who will call out this behaviour.
Yep, I mean you don't really even need data to prove/see that his effort/application is lacking. Fans have been mentioning it for years.
I’d be fairly certain that Amorim is going on the “eye test” only. He’s been extremely vague about the problems in training and usually directs the conversation away from focussing solely on that - on Sunday for example his quote was:

“The reasons is the training, the way I see what a footballer should do. In training, in life and it's every day, every detail. So if things don't change, I will not change. It's the same situation for every player. If you do the maximum, if you do the right things, we can use every player."

Note the reference to lifestyle as well in there. I suspect we’d have had something a bit more focussed if there was direct evidence that Rashford was training worse than everyone else.
Yeah, no, I wouldn't think in this day and age, these top level managers make any big decisions without any data to back it up. But alas, reading your posts through this, I don't think we'll agree on our respective Rashford/Amorim stance(s) - not a critique btw...just a difference of opinions. So let's agree to disagree.

This is why he’s not playing. Here he is, pressing.


Yeah, then you still have a few defending this player.
 
I wish he'd hurry up and move, the ludicrous amount of airtime this is all getting is totally at odds with his level of talent. I'd get it if it were Salah, or Mbappe, Haaland, maybe even Kane - but Rashford?

It seems he rates himself about 10 times higher than European clubs do and he's very lucky to be at one of the biggest in the World already. I can see him doing a Lingard, turning down moves he deems below him, only to end up hawking himself to anyone that'll have him when his contract is up.

Would I be happy to see him on at loan at Hull City if United were to pay all his wages - no. He's bone idle and that doesn't help in the championship, much like Philogene last season, for all his spectacular skills and goals he let the team down quite often with apathetic contributions off the ball. I think for every point Rashford would help gain, he'd be at fault for losing one so it'd be fruitless apart from a PR stunt/merch perspective.

Says it all when a fan of a club near the relegation zone in the championship wouldn't take a player that thinks he's good enough to compete with Yamal/Raphinha at Barcelona and also too good for Manchester United.

If he were at, say West Ham now, and the situation was the same and he wanted out - there's no way United or any other top club would be interested in him. In fact I think WHU would have sold him a long time ago, to another club of the same stature like Everton. He's very lucky to have MU on his CV, much like a lot of players have good careers based on them initially playing for Real Madrid - the likes of Asensio and Isco etc. Bang average players pretty much and once they leave their big club they don't do anything of note which shows how lucky they actually were to be associated with a footballing giant in the first place.

I'd hand on heart take Elanga over Rashford any day of the week and twice on Tuesdays. He's a good player, and he also gets stuck in when he has to.
 
I think it’s more to do with the fact that he isn’t scoring rather than isn’t defending. I’m still not comfortable with this ‘defending first’ approach to forward players in today’s game, and I’d like to think that if Rashford still scored 30+ goals a season, nobody, including his coach, would be particularly concerned about his pressing.
In the last couple of seasons, he does seem to play rather lacklustrely. You just have to follow the match day threads to see how frustrated most of us are with him and his lack of running or trying to dribble past defenders. You can almost feel he doesn't want to be on the field and his mind is somewhere else.
 
I’d be fairly certain that Amorim is going on the “eye test” only. He’s been extremely vague about the problems in training and usually directs the conversation away from focussing solely on that - on Sunday for example his quote was:

“The reasons is the training, the way I see what a footballer should do. In training, in life and it's every day, every detail. So if things don't change, I will not change. It's the same situation for every player. If you do the maximum, if you do the right things, we can use every player."

Note the reference to lifestyle as well in there. I suspect we’d have had something a bit more focussed if there was direct evidence that Rashford was training worse than everyone else.
This is hilarious. Amorim doesn't even need to answer a Rashford question, forget abut explaining things in technical detail.
He can sit and repeat "My decision" every time media questions and that is more than enough.
 
Are there any specifics as to Rashford's behavior? Is it as simple as pulling out of tackles in training? Cracking jokes behind Anorim's back? The overall summary is damning and even for him it's hard to believe he wouldn't do the bare minimum required in training.
Transfer window is open and they want him gone

If this "poor effort in training" talk continues after the window shuts, that'd be another story
 
this season is obviously a lost cause with top 4, so at this point if he doesnt move this window would love to see rashford just get zero playing time to show that lazy ass entitled attitudes wont get you anywhere. Hope he enjoys his nice paycheck while he watches his international teammates continue to solidify their spots for the next world cup in 2026.
 
Transfer window is open and they want him gone

If this "poor effort in training" talk continues after the window shuts, that'd be another story

So you think Amorim is lying?
What about Jose and Ragnick?
 
Would Dan Ashworth's mediating presence have made a difference? Who knows? There was a respect and relationship there. Everyone knows the trick to getting the best out of Rashford on the field is making him feel involved and loved and getting him closer to goal; it's psychological and tactical. Anyway, Ashworth's gone. Amorim's in charge. Rashford was underperforming. The separation was in motion. So a move, initially on loan, next week makes sense. Staying on would continue the unwelcome sideshow/tension. Rashford has to go.
The above part may have something to do with Ashworth's exit. If Ashworth was at odds with the manager and rest of football hierarchy on such issues, its good that he left the club because otherwise it could give opportunity to players like Rashford play one boss against another.

On another note, this line "getting the best out of Rashford on the field is making him feel involved and loved and getting him closer to goal; it's psychological and tactical" is just another hint of how much Rashford has lost the plot. He has been the main man at United for years now and instead of introspecting why he hasn't performed, he thinks the problem is that he isn't loved enough??

ETHs system last season wasn't conducive to getting him close to goal. This led to a dipping in him form and low confidence
 
This is why he’s not playing. Here he is, pressing.



You can almost hear his internal monologue throughout.

"Right come on then, let's be having you"

"Oh think you can just turn that way do you?"

"Oh goodness, you little so and s.. anyway what time does that NBA coverage start tonight"
 
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So you think Amorim is lying?
What about Jose and Ragnick?
Not necessarily, no. But I also think Rashford could be training better than 2013 Cristiano and it wouldn't change a damn thing, not while the window is open

If he's still at the club after the window closes and this talk of poor effort continues, that would lend it more credibility imo

Btw, the way Amorim phrased that answer was masterful media manipulation. He never actually said Rashford is showing poor effort in training now, did he? Think about it
 
I prefer my forward to be forwards also but the game has totally changed in the last 10 years or so. Look at Haaland, Pep digs him out all the time for not pressing, Mbappe gets loads of shit for being lazy. Messi and Neymar even got it at PSG.

To be competitive at an elite level these days the forwards have to lead the line defensively also.

It’s an asset for sure. But just not a priority, as such. To give context, I’m in my late 30s, and often have random thoughts of how player x or y would fare in the game today. Like, would Ronaldinho’s lack of pressing mean fans of clubs would be saying ‘no thanks’ if he was available? Would Sol Campbell play for a very elite team or would they say his passing isn’t god enough?
 
In the last couple of seasons, he does seem to play rather lacklustrely. You just have to follow the match day threads to see how frustrated most of us are with him and his lack of running or trying to dribble past defenders. You can almost feel he doesn't want to be on the field and his mind is somewhere else.

That’s fair. Again, I just think the real bottom line is that he’s stopped scoring goals. There would be very little body language or pressing discourse about Marcus Rashford if he scored 30 goals.