Marcus Rashford (out)

I agree with all of these responses to the ridiculous post about "babyish behaviour" from Amorim. As takes on the situation go, that's one of the worst I've heard. Rashford has been excluded because his effort in training, and all the behaviour associated with his approach to professionalism etc., is below the standard required for a Manchester United player. The ONLY ways through that are to either (a) leave, or (b) raise your standards to those required.

Rashford clearly doesn't want to do (b) or it would've happened already. It's not difficult to go into work every day, with a positive, professional attitude, and give 100%. Especially when your job is playing fecking football. If a player thinks they are too good for that, or can't find the motivation to do it, then they serve zero purpose for the club. By reintegrating them into the team, you undercut everything you are trying to achieve in raising standards. "Hey everyone, if you don't give 100% and carry yourselves with the upmost professionalism, you won't be part of the team. Except Marcus of course, he can't be arsed but I'm putting him in the team anyway." Doesn't really have a ring to it.

No player is bigger than the club, and especially not a player that hasn't delivered anything of note in the last 18 months. Rashford, unfortunately, is the product of his environment. Here was a player who rose to prominence under famed disciplinarian Louis Van Gaal. He came onto the scene as an all action, tireless, forward. A player who made endless runs into the channels, pressing, behind the lines. Was constantly moving, and buzzing around. He was a real force of nature. He gradually started developing his game, filled out tremendously, became a really exciting and explosive inside forward....but over the OGS era, we started to see more and more player power come to the fore. It has reared it's head during the Mourinho era. OGS famously was fairly lax when it came to discipline and training. Preferring a more laissez-faire approach to the game. A move to "bring the joy back". And in fairness to him, he did very well for two seasons. But as he hit a rocky patch, the squad didn't have the discipline, grit, or determination to pull themselves out of it. The ended up as a bunch of moody, man-boys, who didn't want to do the hardwork and wanted everything their own way. Ragnick saw this when he came in, and was palpably shocked by the lack of professionalism throughout the squad.

Rashford never recovered from this. His key formative years were at his boyhood club, getting paid 300k+ a week, in an environment dominated by player power, overseen by an indulgent, profligate board who indulged his ridiculous attitude because he was a "star". Now reality has bitten. There is a whole new structure, no more indulgence of prima-donna's, exacting standards, sensible recruitment, resetting of cultural and professional standards, and a lot of the players are apparently not keen to conform. Those players have to go. Sancho is gone, Rashford will be next. It is their loss, not ours. Absolute ruthlessness is required. There is nothing to prevent Marcus from coming into training tomorrow, to pull the manager aside and say "Boss, I was wrong, I can see that now. I want to give it all, I want to be at this club, I want to learn, I want to improve, and you can count on me to give 100% every time I step onto the training field", and then to go out there an actually do it. Absolutely nothing to stop him from doing that except (a) his pride, (b) his attitude, or (c) his (lack of) motivation or ambition.

There is virtually no player I would indulge outside of the standards, except for perhaps peak Messi, or an iconic leader like Cantona.....but the reason those players were so good in the first place, is because they worked so hard and led by example. So it's a moot point. What you don't do is indulge and make exceptions for a player without 9 goals in past 60 games, who spends 90% of the game walking or trotting about.

There was a point in time where with Garnacho, Rashford, Greenwood and Martial, I thought United had potentially one of the best strike forces in the world. 3 from the academy, and one signed as a teen. They were to come to represent everything that was good about Manchester United. 3/4 are now abject failures in terms of this club, and a fifth young talent and major signing, Jadon Sancho, has gone the same way. In nearly every case, the problem hasn't been talent, it has been attitude, discipline, character, and work ethic etc. That should tell you everything you need to know about the type of culture we have had at this club for the last decade. How does one club produce so many top young talents, and then have all of those talents fall off because of off the field, or lack of application reasons? Unless there is a serious cultural problem at the club.....

The work Ineos and Amorim are doing to change the culture, is the single most important work done since Fergie left. It's more important than results right now, and it's more important than trophies this season. Anything we achieve in the short term (cup wins under ETH for example) are just papering over the cracks of a broken, rotten institution. Ineos are now fixing the foundations, and things will get ugly as a result. Players, big players, will leave. Results will suffer. Sacrifices will have to be made. Dirty laundry will be aired. The list goes on. But it is VITAL that we stay the course. That we reset and rebuild this club with the cast iron discipline and high standards that drove it to success over the 30 years Fergie was here. To be the best, to compete with the best, you have to have an environment that demands excellence in everything. That exudes application, dedication and hard work. That makes intelligent, data driven decisions, and uses facts rather than emotion to drive decision making.

Zero exceptions, zero tolerance for application underperformers, and a close knit culture. A player can play badly, and still be a part of the squad, if that player is giving 100% to the cause, and doing everything they can to improve. A player can play well, but be sold or dropped, if they are only giving 50 or 75%, but the effects of indulging that player, spreads to everyone and everything.

TL;DR - Sell Rashford.

Nailed it. Brilliant post
 
Ahhhh remember the goal against Ipswich after a minute when the ball hit him and went in.
 
Who is he linked to at the moment? Milan, Napoli cannot sign him. Dortmund, Juventus, West Ham were the last clubs I saw linked but that was awhile ago
 
Who is he linked to at the moment? Milan, Napoli cannot sign him. Dortmund, Juventus, West Ham were the last clubs I saw linked but that was awhile ago
Heard Tottenham is interested, should gift wrap him if its true.
 
Those defending Rashford is pretty odd. The player doesn’t give a shit about us fans or the club but we still have saps happy to give him a virtual reach around because they buy what his PR machine are spewing out because he has overestimated his actual worth and ability.
I’ll be so glad when he becomes the problem for another team - just like Pogba and Sancho.
The only people who should not want him out of Manchester is the council who make a small fortune from his parking tickets because the arrogant prick thinks Marcus Rashford can literally park wherever he wants and just pay a fine.
Jog on Rashford. Grade A wanker.
 
Who is he linked to at the moment? Milan, Napoli cannot sign him. Dortmund, Juventus, West Ham were the last clubs I saw linked but that was awhile ago

His brother went out on a European tour earlier in the window to find a buyer... came back with rejections galore by the looks of it.

It is clear that no club around Europe actually rates Marcus Rashford, if they did they would try make an effort to sign him.

His best bet is to pack up and go to Saudi, seems like even they dont want him.

His off the field work has been good but that is not going to propel his playing career, which has been on the decline for a while now.

His professionalism is his biggest problem, someone who thinks he doesn't need to try.
 
I'll add it to the list.

Rashford is underperforming because he needs;

- to play LW
- to play up front
- Shaw behind him
- a good right winger to compliment him
- a girlfriend
- a steady manager
- a strong leader to help him on the pitch
- to be loved

If we just get those few things we'll have our 17 league goals a season player back

17Larsson may take away Henry Winter's job at this point.
 
I'll add it to the list.

Rashford is underperforming because he needs;

- to play LW
- to play up front
- Shaw behind him
- a good right winger to compliment him
- a girlfriend
- a steady manager
- a strong leader to help him on the pitch
- to be loved

If we just get those few things we'll have our 17 league goals a season player back
It was similar with Pogba. All the same clique.
 
A virus, and I'm so glad a manager finally sussed him out. The day this entire circus is someone else's problem will be a massive step in the right direction for the entire club. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem likely it will happen.

Fully in support of this coach now.
 
A virus, and I'm so glad a manager finally sussed him out. The day this entire circus is someone else's problem will be a massive step in the right direction for the entire club. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem likely it will happen.

Ralf Rangnick also sussed him out, Rashford was dropped quite a few times under him, unfortunately, he knew he was an interim so didnt have to tolerate it for long.

There were numerous issues under Ten Hag too but Rashford was always back in the line up, which rubbed other players the wrong way.
 
I'll add it to the list.

Rashford is underperforming because he needs;

- to play LW
- to play up front
- Shaw behind him
- a good right winger to compliment him
- a girlfriend
- a steady manager
- a strong leader to help him on the pitch
- to be loved

If we just get those few things we'll have our 17 league goals a season player back
Imagine having your success tied to Shaw..
 
I'll add it to the list.

Rashford is underperforming because he needs;

- to play LW
- to play up front
- Shaw behind him
- a good right winger to compliment him
- a girlfriend
- a steady manager
- a strong leader to help him on the pitch
- to be loved

If we just get those few things we'll have our 17 league goals a season player back
Maybe a social impact campaign also like “fed the scousers”?
 
He didn't, in his foreign TNT Sports interview, he said he never targets individuals he just stated what his standards were.
This was days after. It wouldn't be the first time he had to cool down what he initially said in the next press conference.
 
Who want him now?
He"s deluded if he thinks top clubs are lining to sign him

Even Rooney got lot of shit from our fanbase in his latter years . Rashford who won zero big trophy for us, thinks he's beyond the club.
 
His brother went out on a European tour earlier in the window to find a buyer... came back with rejections galore by the looks of it.

It is clear that no club around Europe actually rates Marcus Rashford, if they did they would try make an effort to sign him.

His best bet is to pack up and go to Saudi, seems like even they dont want him.

His off the field work has been good but that is not going to propel his playing career, which has been on the decline for a while now.

His professionalism is his biggest problem, someone who thinks he doesn't need to try.
I presume he would have takers if he was willing to drop his wage.

I'd say there's a fair chance that at the moment he is trying to keep his full wage, so we'd have to make up the difference for what any other club will offer. In other words, we'd probably end up having to pay about half his wage for the three and a half seasons remaining on his contract. That works out to be almost £30m. Us completely freezing him out and Amorim's comments may be us trying to force him to reduce those demands, get him desperate to leave and continue his career so that he'll accept a lower wage where we either won't have to pay him out or at least reduce the amount. Otherwise he sits here, not getting any game-time and continues to get publicly embarrassed.
 
I presume he would have takers if he was willing to drop his wage.

I'd say there's a fair chance that at the moment he is trying to keep his full wage, so we'd have to make up the difference for what any other club will offer. In other words, we'd probably end up having to pay about half his wage for the three and a half seasons remaining on his contract. That works out to be almost £30m. Us completely freezing him out and Amorim's comments may be us trying to force him to reduce those demands, get him desperate to leave and continue his career so that he'll accept a lower wage where we either won't have to pay him out or at least reduce the amount. Otherwise he sits here, not getting any game-time and continues to get publicly embarrassed.

That is why I say there is no one that wants him, he is not willing to drop his wage demands, Manutd are not willing to pay a massive share of it.

Yes, freezing him out is probably a way to make him realise, he is not going to play even if he stays.

The fact that he doesn't want to take a pay cut shows you that he isnt really interested in football. Once he leaves Manutd, he will pretty much become irrelevant anyway.
 
It was similar with Pogba. All the same clique.
There was actually some truth to it with Pogba though, albeit some went overboard. Play him in a midfield where his partners covered his weaknesses and he covered theirs (ie. a balanced midfield like all teams should be aiming for, not some incredibly specific set-up) and there's good reason to think he'd have done a lot better up until the injuries destroyed him. He had it in his first time at Juve and obviously did well there, then the only time we did it in his Utd career he was literally the best player in the league for two months (directly after Ole took over). Then Herrera got injured, we moved Pogba back, and we never played like that again.
 
There was actually some truth to it with Pogba though, albeit some went overboard. Play him in a midfield where his partners covered his weaknesses and he covered theirs (ie. a balanced midfield like all teams should be aiming for, not some incredibly specific set-up) and there's good reason to think he'd have done a lot better up until the injuries destroyed him. He had it in his first time at Juve and obviously did well there, then the only time we did it in his Utd career he was literally the best player in the league for two months (directly after Ole took over). Then Herrera got injured, we moved Pogba back, and we never played like that again.
Well similar to Rashford then. If its a right setup and he's up for it its all good. And similar to Rashford Pogba wasnt up for it most of the time. Injuries or playing in a wrong positions are just excuses. We bought a ton of midfielders apparently just so suit his specific way of playing but nothing worked out. If he needs that many adjustments and a specific position to shine he's not that good to begin with, certainly was always overhyped.
 
I have avoided commenting on this Rashford situation for some time. I super like (used to use the word love!) Marcus and he has been a big part of watching United play for the last 5-6 seasons. Without him, we would have been even worse to watch - but at the same time, he has been extremely frustrating as well.

It says a lot about a players application that his two best seasons in a United shirt have come when his agent was hankering the board for a pay rise. His performance drop off after signing that contract shows the complacency that he has built around him (including, his agent, his family, support staff etc.). There is no way a player drops off that much in performances when he has no contract to play for, and our board was not intelligent enough to see through this and rewarded him with a contract as good as Mbappe's.

I don't think he is going anywhere this January because there is no one who is willing to take his wages. It also does not make sense for United to pay him his salary for being out of the squad and honestly, not putting in the effort. I tend to believe Amorim (not because I trust him over Marcus) but because having seen Rashford play - it's obvious that he is not working hard enough. If he is doing that in games, there is no way he is doing better in training!

The current Marcus is an outcome of a player with elite mentality but average skills, rising to the top because of his ability to grab the clutch moments and an inept environment which was unable to harness his mentality for the good of the team. Now, Rashford has lost what made him special - his mentality. Amorim said in one of his first interviews after the City game that with Marcus they are trying something different than previous managers, and it's now up to him to respond. Clearly the response was - send by brother/agent to scout Europe for alternate clubs because I'm too good for this treatment.

The whole situation is a big mess and sooner it gets resolved, the better it is for the club. At some level, I continue to hope that he turns it around, buckles down and starts running around like he was when he came through the academy.
 
I have avoided commenting on this Rashford situation for some time. I super like (used to use the word love!) Marcus and he has been a big part of watching United play for the last 5-6 seasons. Without him, we would have been even worse to watch - but at the same time, he has been extremely frustrating as well.

It says a lot about a players application that his two best seasons in a United shirt have come when his agent was hankering the board for a pay rise. His performance drop off after signing that contract shows the complacency that he has built around him (including, his agent, his family, support staff etc.). There is no way a player drops off that much in performances when he has no contract to play for, and our board was not intelligent enough to see through this and rewarded him with a contract as good as Mbappe's.

I don't think he is going anywhere this January because there is no one who is willing to take his wages. It also does not make sense for United to pay him his salary for being out of the squad and honestly, not putting in the effort. I tend to believe Amorim (not because I trust him over Marcus) but because having seen Rashford play - it's obvious that he is not working hard enough. If he is doing that in games, there is no way he is doing better in training!

The current Marcus is an outcome of a player with elite mentality but average skills, rising to the top because of his ability to grab the clutch moments and an inept environment which was unable to harness his mentality for the good of the team. Now, Rashford has lost what made him special - his mentality. Amorim said in one of his first interviews after the City game that with Marcus they are trying something different than previous managers, and it's now up to him to respond. Clearly the response was - send by brother/agent to scout Europe for alternate clubs because I'm too good for this treatment.

The whole situation is a big mess and sooner it gets resolved, the better it is for the club. At some level, I continue to hope that he turns it around, buckles down and starts running around like he was when he came through the academy.
There is nothing elite in his mentality, he is weak.
 
Are there any specifics as to Rashford's behavior? Is it as simple as pulling out of tackles in training? Cracking jokes behind Anorim's back? The overall summary is damning and even for him it's hard to believe he wouldn't do the bare minimum required in training.
 
I just don't think he cares? He got paid so handsomely for rest of his "prime" and just jogging around avoiding injury, living 'his' version of a very best life. As a free agent he can extend that 3 or so more years for more big money in some Oil league. He maxed out his skill-set and profited as much as he possibly could for it all, it's his perogative to sign a stupidly ridiculous contract if we're dumb enough to offer one as we did. For some reasons unknown we have been frivolous with our spending and now doing the mending. If he doesn't contribute he might as well not stink up morale for the rest of the team?
Wish he would be a model pro and deliver what he is paid for but sadly/evidently so he isn't interested in anything like that.
 
If you guys offered him a free transfer, would he take it?

You'd not get a fee but would save many millions on his wages.
I don’t think he would because he wouldn’t get the same salary again. Nowhere close to it. I think we would accept it though.
 
If you guys offered him a free transfer, would he take it?

You'd not get a fee but would save many millions on his wages.

Why would he? We owe him around £50m over the next 3+ years. I could see him agreeing to leave if we give him £40m maybe?
 
There's definitely a gap between what we know about his behaviour and the way he is being treated. Either he's just so unprofessional on a daily basis in a way we are not privy to or there was a one-off incident bad enough to banish him that we don't know about.
 
Looks like we're stuck with this waster. He thinks he's too good for Saudi, and no serious club is taking him and his ludicrous wages on.

At this stage, most players would feel that they had to get back into the team and work as hard as it takes to at least put themselves in the shop window for Summer.

I suspect with Marcus we'll see the opposite. Complaining through media friends, and being happy to sit at home taking his wage for a few months, hoping that somehow his whining and moaning will draw the attention of Europe's big clubs.
 
There's definitely a gap between what we know about his behaviour and the way he is being treated. Either he's just so unprofessional on a daily basis in a way we are not privy to or there was a one-off incident bad enough to banish him that we don't know about.
We've watched him on the pitch for years. He doesn't put in a shift, it's simple as that. That's very unprofessional in itself, we don't need there to be anything else.

I don't even think he's a bad lad, I just believe he's lost the love of the game (at least enough of it to play at the highest level) and is a bit misguided by his entourage. I feel he got into football to help himself and his family, he's achieved that, and just can't bring himself to be motivated anymore.
 
There's definitely a gap between what we know about his behaviour and the way he is being treated. Either he's just so unprofessional on a daily basis in a way we are not privy to or there was a one-off incident bad enough to banish him that we don't know about.
Put everything together from what we've seen and heard over the years, and it paints the picture of who he is and why he's been cast out by Amorim. There isn't anything mysterious or complicated going on, it's simply his attitude and lack of effort that has caused it, and United finally having a manager and CEO/owners who will no longer stand for it
 
I agree with all of these responses to the ridiculous post about "babyish behaviour" from Amorim. As takes on the situation go, that's one of the worst I've heard. Rashford has been excluded because his effort in training, and all the behaviour associated with his approach to professionalism etc., is below the standard required for a Manchester United player. The ONLY ways through that are to either (a) leave, or (b) raise your standards to those required.

Rashford clearly doesn't want to do (b) or it would've happened already. It's not difficult to go into work every day, with a positive, professional attitude, and give 100%. Especially when your job is playing fecking football. If a player thinks they are too good for that, or can't find the motivation to do it, then they serve zero purpose for the club. By reintegrating them into the team, you undercut everything you are trying to achieve in raising standards. "Hey everyone, if you don't give 100% and carry yourselves with the upmost professionalism, you won't be part of the team. Except Marcus of course, he can't be arsed but I'm putting him in the team anyway." Doesn't really have a ring to it.

No player is bigger than the club, and especially not a player that hasn't delivered anything of note in the last 18 months. Rashford, unfortunately, is the product of his environment. Here was a player who rose to prominence under famed disciplinarian Louis Van Gaal. He came onto the scene as an all action, tireless, forward. A player who made endless runs into the channels, pressing, behind the lines. Was constantly moving, and buzzing around. He was a real force of nature. He gradually started developing his game, filled out tremendously, became a really exciting and explosive inside forward....but over the OGS era, we started to see more and more player power come to the fore. It has reared it's head during the Mourinho era. OGS famously was fairly lax when it came to discipline and training. Preferring a more laissez-faire approach to the game. A move to "bring the joy back". And in fairness to him, he did very well for two seasons. But as he hit a rocky patch, the squad didn't have the discipline, grit, or determination to pull themselves out of it. The ended up as a bunch of moody, man-boys, who didn't want to do the hardwork and wanted everything their own way. Ragnick saw this when he came in, and was palpably shocked by the lack of professionalism throughout the squad.

Rashford never recovered from this. His key formative years were at his boyhood club, getting paid 300k+ a week, in an environment dominated by player power, overseen by an indulgent, profligate board who indulged his ridiculous attitude because he was a "star". Now reality has bitten. There is a whole new structure, no more indulgence of prima-donna's, exacting standards, sensible recruitment, resetting of cultural and professional standards, and a lot of the players are apparently not keen to conform. Those players have to go. Sancho is gone, Rashford will be next. It is their loss, not ours. Absolute ruthlessness is required. There is nothing to prevent Marcus from coming into training tomorrow, to pull the manager aside and say "Boss, I was wrong, I can see that now. I want to give it all, I want to be at this club, I want to learn, I want to improve, and you can count on me to give 100% every time I step onto the training field", and then to go out there an actually do it. Absolutely nothing to stop him from doing that except (a) his pride, (b) his attitude, or (c) his (lack of) motivation or ambition.

There is virtually no player I would indulge outside of the standards, except for perhaps peak Messi, or an iconic leader like Cantona.....but the reason those players were so good in the first place, is because they worked so hard and led by example. So it's a moot point. What you don't do is indulge and make exceptions for a player without 9 goals in past 60 games, who spends 90% of the game walking or trotting about.

There was a point in time where with Garnacho, Rashford, Greenwood and Martial, I thought United had potentially one of the best strike forces in the world. 3 from the academy, and one signed as a teen. They were to come to represent everything that was good about Manchester United. 3/4 are now abject failures in terms of this club, and a fifth young talent and major signing, Jadon Sancho, has gone the same way. In nearly every case, the problem hasn't been talent, it has been attitude, discipline, character, and work ethic etc. That should tell you everything you need to know about the type of culture we have had at this club for the last decade. How does one club produce so many top young talents, and then have all of those talents fall off because of off the field, or lack of application reasons? Unless there is a serious cultural problem at the club.....

The work Ineos and Amorim are doing to change the culture, is the single most important work done since Fergie left. It's more important than results right now, and it's more important than trophies this season. Anything we achieve in the short term (cup wins under ETH for example) are just papering over the cracks of a broken, rotten institution. Ineos are now fixing the foundations, and things will get ugly as a result. Players, big players, will leave. Results will suffer. Sacrifices will have to be made. Dirty laundry will be aired. The list goes on. But it is VITAL that we stay the course. That we reset and rebuild this club with the cast iron discipline and high standards that drove it to success over the 30 years Fergie was here. To be the best, to compete with the best, you have to have an environment that demands excellence in everything. That exudes application, dedication and hard work. That makes intelligent, data driven decisions, and uses facts rather than emotion to drive decision making.

Zero exceptions, zero tolerance for application underperformers, and a close knit culture. A player can play badly, and still be a part of the squad, if that player is giving 100% to the cause, and doing everything they can to improve. A player can play well, but be sold or dropped, if they are only giving 50 or 75%, but the effects of indulging that player, spreads to everyone and everything.

TL;DR - Sell Rashford.

This should be pinned. Really great post and Suma up the situation really well.
 
The idea that he can be lazy in matches, which he absolutely is and anyone that's paid any attention to him in the last 18 months especially could see that, but really tries hard in training is laughable. It makes no sense.

He's visibly and obviously half arsed during actual competitive matches so he must be absolutely shocking in training.
 
Why would he? We owe him around £50m over the next 3+ years. I could see him agreeing to leave if we give him £40m maybe?
Again, why fans constantly read this situation only through his wage? Money is important but money is not ONLY important thing for players. Why his salary would be our problem only?
IF he wants to stay and and just collect money without playing then fine, it is on us to pay him every single euro.
But he said that he wants to leave for "new challenge". So, IF he wants to leave and play football then he also needs to lower his demands.
He is 27 and in his prime. I bet that he is not interested to sit 2 more years on the stands or on the bench just because of 300k per week.

We don't need to be pushovers here. "You don't want to leave for less money? Fine, then do your job here."
 
The idea that he can be lazy in matches, which he absolutely is and anyone that's paid any attention to him in the last 18 months especially could see that, but really tries hard in training is laughable. It makes no sense.

He's visibly and obviously half arsed during actual competitive matches so he must be absolutely shocking in training.
I've always said the same.

If you've no intensity during the fun bit(games) you must be a nightmare at the boring bit(training).

His off the ball stuff hasn't been the main issue for me. It's the snails pace he works at on the ball.

He's visibly knackered as well before half time.

Been saying for ages there's a very easy explanation for his form. He's not fit. People argue that's impossible due to sports science, players being monitored etc but that's nonsense.
 
I agree with all of these responses to the ridiculous post about "babyish behaviour" from Amorim. As takes on the situation go, that's one of the worst I've heard. Rashford has been excluded because his effort in training, and all the behaviour associated with his approach to professionalism etc., is below the standard required for a Manchester United player. The ONLY ways through that are to either (a) leave, or (b) raise your standards to those required.

Rashford clearly doesn't want to do (b) or it would've happened already. It's not difficult to go into work every day, with a positive, professional attitude, and give 100%. Especially when your job is playing fecking football. If a player thinks they are too good for that, or can't find the motivation to do it, then they serve zero purpose for the club. By reintegrating them into the team, you undercut everything you are trying to achieve in raising standards. "Hey everyone, if you don't give 100% and carry yourselves with the upmost professionalism, you won't be part of the team. Except Marcus of course, he can't be arsed but I'm putting him in the team anyway." Doesn't really have a ring to it.

No player is bigger than the club, and especially not a player that hasn't delivered anything of note in the last 18 months. Rashford, unfortunately, is the product of his environment. Here was a player who rose to prominence under famed disciplinarian Louis Van Gaal. He came onto the scene as an all action, tireless, forward. A player who made endless runs into the channels, pressing, behind the lines. Was constantly moving, and buzzing around. He was a real force of nature. He gradually started developing his game, filled out tremendously, became a really exciting and explosive inside forward....but over the OGS era, we started to see more and more player power come to the fore. It has reared it's head during the Mourinho era. OGS famously was fairly lax when it came to discipline and training. Preferring a more laissez-faire approach to the game. A move to "bring the joy back". And in fairness to him, he did very well for two seasons. But as he hit a rocky patch, the squad didn't have the discipline, grit, or determination to pull themselves out of it. The ended up as a bunch of moody, man-boys, who didn't want to do the hardwork and wanted everything their own way. Ragnick saw this when he came in, and was palpably shocked by the lack of professionalism throughout the squad.

Rashford never recovered from this. His key formative years were at his boyhood club, getting paid 300k+ a week, in an environment dominated by player power, overseen by an indulgent, profligate board who indulged his ridiculous attitude because he was a "star". Now reality has bitten. There is a whole new structure, no more indulgence of prima-donna's, exacting standards, sensible recruitment, resetting of cultural and professional standards, and a lot of the players are apparently not keen to conform. Those players have to go. Sancho is gone, Rashford will be next. It is their loss, not ours. Absolute ruthlessness is required. There is nothing to prevent Marcus from coming into training tomorrow, to pull the manager aside and say "Boss, I was wrong, I can see that now. I want to give it all, I want to be at this club, I want to learn, I want to improve, and you can count on me to give 100% every time I step onto the training field", and then to go out there an actually do it. Absolutely nothing to stop him from doing that except (a) his pride, (b) his attitude, or (c) his (lack of) motivation or ambition.

There is virtually no player I would indulge outside of the standards, except for perhaps peak Messi, or an iconic leader like Cantona.....but the reason those players were so good in the first place, is because they worked so hard and led by example. So it's a moot point. What you don't do is indulge and make exceptions for a player without 9 goals in past 60 games, who spends 90% of the game walking or trotting about.

There was a point in time where with Garnacho, Rashford, Greenwood and Martial, I thought United had potentially one of the best strike forces in the world. 3 from the academy, and one signed as a teen. They were to come to represent everything that was good about Manchester United. 3/4 are now abject failures in terms of this club, and a fifth young talent and major signing, Jadon Sancho, has gone the same way. In nearly every case, the problem hasn't been talent, it has been attitude, discipline, character, and work ethic etc. That should tell you everything you need to know about the type of culture we have had at this club for the last decade. How does one club produce so many top young talents, and then have all of those talents fall off because of off the field, or lack of application reasons? Unless there is a serious cultural problem at the club.....

The work Ineos and Amorim are doing to change the culture, is the single most important work done since Fergie left. It's more important than results right now, and it's more important than trophies this season. Anything we achieve in the short term (cup wins under ETH for example) are just papering over the cracks of a broken, rotten institution. Ineos are now fixing the foundations, and things will get ugly as a result. Players, big players, will leave. Results will suffer. Sacrifices will have to be made. Dirty laundry will be aired. The list goes on. But it is VITAL that we stay the course. That we reset and rebuild this club with the cast iron discipline and high standards that drove it to success over the 30 years Fergie was here. To be the best, to compete with the best, you have to have an environment that demands excellence in everything. That exudes application, dedication and hard work. That makes intelligent, data driven decisions, and uses facts rather than emotion to drive decision making.

Zero exceptions, zero tolerance for application underperformers, and a close knit culture. A player can play badly, and still be a part of the squad, if that player is giving 100% to the cause, and doing everything they can to improve. A player can play well, but be sold or dropped, if they are only giving 50 or 75%, but the effects of indulging that player, spreads to everyone and everything.

TL;DR - Sell Rashford.

If I had my sword to hand, it would be drawn and raised to the sky.

Bravo.
 
In the full clip, Carragher essentially outs Ornstein for providing positive PR for Rashford in exchange for information from his camp. Carragher quickly moves on from that point as I think he realized he had put Ornstein in an uncomfortable position, and it was noticeable that Ornstein looked slightly sullen as the conversation continued.
Thank you. Well described
I have no idea why this point is equivalent to insulting someone's intelligence. What you strongly claim in contradiction to a post is NOT clear and obvious, I'm asking you to explain your view. I'm not, say, asking you to explain why 2+2=4 - that would insulting your intelligence (or mine). On the other hand, I do think it is strange when you make a throwaway comment contradicting them and refuse to elaborate.

Anyways, I am actually curious about the timeline, so I went looking for the 'cultural reboot' piece that I remember reading.


My version was this piece by Jamie Jackson in the Guardian, published on 16th December after him and Garnacho were dropped for the derby win. Rashford's Winter piece came out on the 18th, 2 days later.
There's some strong language in the article:




But there are no sources at all backing it up, and the reasoning is seemed to be based on a 'feeling' at the club.



In the very article, Jackson backtracks with a contradiction.



So either Amorim thought Rashford's time is up and he has no place, or he thought Rashford could make his way to the squad. Which was it? We never found out because Rashford did the Winter piece two days later. But my read (and what I think is a sensible read given the state of the British media and Jamie Jackson's reputation for sensationalism) is that Jamie Jackson doesn't know, because he's speculating and he has no sources. I'd rather believe the (excessively so) honest head coach.

More evidence? Jamie Jackson's own words in a later article on 26 Jan called 'Ruben Amorim’s struggle for goals not helped by Marcus Rashford’s exile'



'Unless Ratcliffe informed'? So he doesn't know, which means the previous article was speculation, as well. It's just shitty 'jornalism' with no explicit boundaries between opinion and reporting. I wouldn't be surprised if Rashford himself read the same cultural reboot article and thought it was a club briefing, leading to him being disillusioned two days later.

The point is, the club did NOT have a briefing where they put up Rashford for sale, at least not before his Winter piece. You're being misled by poor journalism.
Thorough - but it sounds like manager and owner have been chatting.
 
I wonder if we would just let him leave on a free at this point, could even mutually agree to terminate the contract. Would absolutely wild to let that happen but the saving on wages is absolutely massive.