Marcus Rashford (out)

Glorio said:
We've watched him on the pitch for years. He doesn't put in a shift, it's simple as that. That's very unprofessional in itself, we don't need there to be anything else.

I don't even think he's a bad lad, I just believe he's lost the love of the game (at least enough of it to play at the highest level) and is a bit misguided by his entourage. I feel he got into football to help himself and his family, he's achieved that, and just can't bring himself to be motivated anymore.
Click to expand...
I really like this post. Obviously there are big gaps in what we know. Is the truth closer to -
- Marcus puts in his usual bare minimum of effort and is so good that’s good enough. To his horror, Amorim requires 100% even in training. They fall out. Marcus wants out.

Or -
- There are darker, hidden issues or happenings which completely undermine squad discipline etc …
or -
- Ratcliffe is fed up with untenable wages and gets a ‘not putting shift in’ report from staff. Pushes MR towards exit, with Amorim agreeing.

I’d love to know the truth.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Again, why fans constantly read this situation only through his wage? Money is important but money is not ONLY important thing for players. Why his salary would be our problem only?
IF he wants to stay and and just collect money without playing then fine, it is on us to pay him every single euro.
But he said that he wants to leave for "new challenge". So, IF he wants to leave and play football then he also needs to lower his demands.
He is 27 and in his prime. I bet that he is not interested to sit 2 more years on the stands or on the bench just because of 300k per week.

We don't need to be pushovers here. "You don't want to leave for less money? Fine, then do your job here."
Click to expand...

I suspect he’s not too bothered about leaving. His “new challenge” statement was after the club had put him up for sale and clearly reactive. I’m sure he’s prepared to move a bit on his wages to move but he isn’t going to accept, say, £100k when he can continue to earn £250k here.
 
Is Rashford’s salary still the stated amount or would it have gone down since we didn’t qualify for the CL? Surely it’s gone down by 25% from his contract? I have no idea
 
GDaly95 said:
There's definitely a gap between what we know about his behaviour and the way he is being treated. Either he's just so unprofessional on a daily basis in a way we are not privy to or there was a one-off incident bad enough to banish him that we don't know about.
Click to expand...

I think if you remember the things that happened during ETHs management, especially during the later part, I think we got a very good window into his behaviour
 
Dele Alli mark 2. Knowing you have enough money to live like a king for the rest of your life is clearly a huge demotivation for some players.
 
I wonder what our training is like these days, I remember Ronaldo saying he always tried to beat Tevez to training but Tevez was always there first at 6 or 7am. Heard plenty around the likes of Giggs and Scholes doing extra training or gym work as well.

Ronaldo and Ibra seemed to say we don't act like players of a big club. Hopefully it's something that Amorim can start building as part of the culture change as our youth need that guidance.
 
Pav1878 said:
Is Rashford’s salary still the stated amount or would it have gone down since we didn’t qualify for the CL? Surely it’s gone down by 25% from his contract? I have no idea
Click to expand...
Yes, it will have gone down. And he won’t be getting performance incentives such as appearance bonuses, goal bonuses etc. No idea what he’s actually getting paid at the minute as his weekly wage but it should be a lot less then the numbers being chucked about.
 
Glorio said:
We've watched him on the pitch for years. He doesn't put in a shift, it's simple as that. That's very unprofessional in itself, we don't need there to be anything else.

I don't even think he's a bad lad, I just believe he's lost the love of the game (at least enough of it to play at the highest level) and is a bit misguided by his entourage. I feel he got into football to help himself and his family, he's achieved that, and just can't bring himself to be motivated anymore.
Click to expand...
I think the entourage thing is one the biggest factors here. If he is only ever surrounded by hangers on who blow smoke up his arse, that's the world he lives in and the only one he hears. I'm sure in his mind he feels victimised because his people are telling him that he is being.

The strange thing to me is his lack of perspective. What top team is going to come in and pay big money for a player who doesn't work on the pitch, which has been evident for nearly two years, and doesn't work in training so looks like he can't be bothered. There were stories about his lack of application from way before Amorim arrived.

His only route back to being an elite player again is really to turn up training every day and give 100% each and every day. Beckham, Ronaldo, Cantona - the best of the best - did all that was required at training and then stayed behind and did extra. If those stories came out, he performances would improve and he could get a regular starting slot either here or elsewhere.
 
Real Name said:
Well similar to Rashford then. If its a right setup and he's up for it its all good. And similar to Rashford Pogba wasnt up for it most of the time. Injuries or playing in a wrong positions are just excuses. We bought a ton of midfielders apparently just so suit his specific way of playing but nothing worked out. If he needs that many adjustments and a specific position to shine he's not that good to begin with, certainly was always overhyped.
Click to expand...
People make out that Pogba needed some very specific set-up which required very specific players, but it really wasn't. We as a team just needed a normal balanced midfield, most likely in a system that was arguably the most common set-up for top european teams at the time. A deeper-lying playmaker, a box-to-box harrier, and a third midfielder with a bit more freedom and a little less defensive requirements. Instead, we refused to buy suitable players and just kept putting out a terribly balanced midfield and unsurprisingly our midfield never functioned properly. Which meant that every single one of our midfielders struggled. Something we've still continued to do to this day.

In Pogba's entire six years at the club, there was only about three months that we played that way. About one month in his first season, with a past-it Carrick, Herrera and Pogba (which coincided with probably our best period that season). Then two months after Ole took over with Matic, Herrera and Pogba (which was easily the best we've played since Fergie retired). I looked into it once and from memory we played that latter combination 20 times in all competitions in the years we had them together. They lost and drew the first two matches, then won 17 and drew 1 of the next 18. Literal league-wining form. You'd think we'd take that as a hint that we should try to build our midfield to play that way consistently; not because it suited Pogba, but because it suited everyone. But for some utterly stupid reason we never did.

I'm not completely defending Pogba or anything, which is why I said there was only some truth in it. But much more so than Rashford.
 
Really hope he finds a club which brings out the best in him again. Less spotlight perhaps and lower demands. Should have been sold at his over inflated heights of recent seasons as his consistency has always been his weakness. I’d rather a club where young players coming through can plainly see the standards needed for the first team and if you drop, you are sold (rashers), if you are unlucky with injuries (jones) you are sold..if you (you get the picture)…
 
Tincanalley said:
I really like this post. Obviously there are big gaps in what we know. Is the truth closer to -
- Marcus puts in his usual bare minimum of effort and is so good that’s good enough. To his horror, Amorim requires 100% even in training. They fall out. Marcus wants out.

Or -
- There are darker, hidden issues or happenings which completely undermine squad discipline etc …
or -
- Ratcliffe is fed up with untenable wages and gets a ‘not putting shift in’ report from staff. Pushes MR towards exit, with Amorim agreeing.

I’d love to know the truth.
Click to expand...
Could be a mixture of these. Wouldn’t be surprised if the £350k a week argument is a big reason to get rid.
 
NotThatSoph said:
There is a reason you have to use that single example from Ferguson from his 40 year long managerial career, because it was a very unusual thing and not something common at all.

He made comments to the press that he had to walk back, either because he wasn't capable of thinking obvious things through, or because he spoke to the press without thinking. He also destroyed several things in the dressing room, either because he very rationally figured that this was the best available action he could perform to help the team, or because he lost control.

Then, with the latest comments about Rashford, he either 1. again spoke to the press without thinking first, 2. is trying to push Rashford to leave, which is weird if Rashford wants to leave, or 3. is dumb.

This happening so recently after the first two things makes 1 a reasonable guess for me, but who knows.
Click to expand...
No, I used this extreme example from the best ever manager in the game to ask if you think he also lacks impulse control. Because he has had many other examples of hairdryer treatment which did not cause immediate harm to players. The stuff Amorim reportedly did (breaking things in dressing room) is very common. What (used to be) not that common is getting leaked the next day or immediately after.
 
The Firestarter said:
No, I used this extreme example from the best ever manager in the game to ask if you think he also lacks impulse control. Because he has had many other examples of hairdryer treatment which did not cause immediate harm to players. The stuff Amorim reportedly did (breaking things in dressing room) is very common. What (used to be) not that common is getting leaked the next day or immediately after.
Click to expand...

The hairdryer treatment from Ferguson is one of the most famous examples brought up as effective man management, throwing shoes at people is not. For obvious reasons. What other examples do you have, Fabregas throwing a slice?

If you think managers thrashing rooms had always been common, but more reported on now, which other managers are doing that now? Should be easy to list ten or a hundred examples.
 
NotThatSoph said:
The hairdryer treatment from Ferguson is one of the most famous examples brought up as effective man management, throwing shoes at people is not. For obvious reasons. What other examples do you have, Fabregas throwing a slice?

If you think managers thrashing rooms had always been common, but more reported on now, which other managers are doing that now? Should be easy to list ten or a hundred examples.
Click to expand...
He broke a tv . Trashing a dressing room, get a grip.
 
Smores said:
I wonder what our training is like these days, I remember Ronaldo saying he always tried to beat Tevez to training but Tevez was always there first at 6 or 7am. Heard plenty around the likes of Giggs and Scholes doing extra training or gym work as well.

Ronaldo and Ibra seemed to say we don't act like players of a big club. Hopefully it's something that Amorim can start building as part of the culture change as our youth need that guidance.
Click to expand...
It was the other way round, Tevez said that he had tried to be first but Cristiano was always there before him. Which sounds a bit odd considering that I've recently heard Rio talk with Koman, I think, and they were both... somewhat not too complimentary of his attitude in training (although it was said in a positive light — as in when Tevez wanted stuff to happen, which was usually already on the pitch, he made it happen and there was no stopping him — but he rarely got that motivated in training).
 
It's refreshing to see how the media have now taken stance along with Amorim. Pretty much every article, podcast and news segment are saying how Rashford has an easy and open path back in to the team but he's just not willing to take it. All it takes is to give 100%.

I really hope that he sees this now and has a good hard look at himself and he accepts a challenge. Either here or elsewhere but I fear he's just going to plod along until his contract runs out or we pay him off.

His support network have also really fecked up too. They should be giving him a clip around the ear and keep him grounded but it appears they are doing the complete opposite.
 
Pav1878 said:
Is Rashford’s salary still the stated amount or would it have gone down since we didn’t qualify for the CL? Surely it’s gone down by 25% from his contract? I have no idea
Click to expand...
I think the press deliberately confuses that so it can ignore or fudge the reduction.

Makes better headlines.

Yes, it will have been reduced by 25%.
 
The Firestarter said:
He broke a tv . Trashing a dressing room, get a grip.
Click to expand...

This is silly. If that was your actual reaction, you would have led with it. Instead, you spent several comments talking about how what he did is completely normal, but when you realize it's not you change your script.
 
nmm85 said:
His support network have also really fecked up too. They should be giving him a clip around the ear and keep him grounded but it appears they are doing the complete opposite.
Click to expand...

It seems like a lot of high profile footballers who have their family as their agents tend to do stupid shit that negatively affects their careers.

Kane and his brother had that summer they wanted to leave Spurs, fecked that up and looked stupid to everyone
Rabiot and his mother have ludcrious demands and overstep their boundaries
Ronaldinho and his brother from memory used to play hell with Barcelona every summer

And now Rashford and his family with their PR pieces that only serve to make him look worse as he continues to underperform on the pitch.
 
NotThatSoph said:
This is silly. If that was your actual reaction, you would have led with it. Instead, you spent several comments talking about how what he did is completely normal, but when you realize it's not you change your script.
Click to expand...
No, this was the reaction to your comment. I am not going to spent time indulging you and searching how many managers broke something in a dressing room. Most of the occurrences I know are from the local championship in my country. As I said these things are not usually reported.
 
SamoyedSam said:
Dele Alli mark 2. Knowing you have enough money to live like a king for the rest of your life is clearly a huge demotivation for some players.
Click to expand...

Dele's situation became very clear later, there was an interview that is worth watching if you have not seen it.

The situation with Rashford is very different, are as far as we know.. I am not sure Rashford was moving drugs and being molested at a young age.
 
The Firestarter said:
No, this was the reaction to your comment. I am not going to spent time indulging you and searching how many managers broke something in a dressing room. Most of the occurrences I know are from the local championship in my country. As I said these things are not usually reported.
Click to expand...

You should only have to spend a couple of minutes. After all this is supposedly very common at the very highest levels of the sport, and the media is going to report anything from the top clubs in England/Spain/Italy/Germany. It's all a quick Google away.

How many things did ten Hag, Solskjær, Mourinho, van Gaal and Moyes break? We can include van Nistelrooy, Rangnick, Carrick and Giggs as well (his partner's face doesn't count), to stack the deck some more.
 
Gandalf Greyhame said:
I have no idea why this point is equivalent to insulting someone's intelligence. What you strongly claim in contradiction to a post is NOT clear and obvious, I'm asking you to explain your view. I'm not, say, asking you to explain why 2+2=4 - that would insulting your intelligence (or mine). On the other hand, I do think it is strange when you make a throwaway comment contradicting them and refuse to elaborate.

Anyways, I am actually curious about the timeline, so I went looking for the 'cultural reboot' piece that I remember reading.


My version was this piece by Jamie Jackson in the Guardian, published on 16th December after him and Garnacho were dropped for the derby win. Rashford's Winter piece came out on the 18th, 2 days later.
There's some strong language in the article:




But there are no sources at all backing it up, and the reasoning is seemed to be based on a 'feeling' at the club.



In the very article, Jackson backtracks with a contradiction.



So either Amorim thought Rashford's time is up and he has no place, or he thought Rashford could make his way to the squad. Which was it? We never found out because Rashford did the Winter piece two days later. But my read (and what I think is a sensible read given the state of the British media and Jamie Jackson's reputation for sensationalism) is that Jamie Jackson doesn't know, because he's speculating and he has no sources. I'd rather believe the (excessively so) honest head coach.

More evidence? Jamie Jackson's own words in a later article on 26 Jan called 'Ruben Amorim’s struggle for goals not helped by Marcus Rashford’s exile'



'Unless Ratcliffe informed'? So he doesn't know, which means the previous article was speculation, as well. It's just shitty 'jornalism' with no explicit boundaries between opinion and reporting. I wouldn't be surprised if Rashford himself read the same cultural reboot article and thought it was a club briefing, leading to him being disillusioned two days later.

The point is, the club did NOT have a briefing where they put up Rashford for sale, at least not before his Winter piece. You're being misled by poor journalism.
Click to expand...
It's a shame that this post was ignored because it really helps show the timeline of events and how Rashford wasn't forced out.

To the people who still want Rashford here. Do you really want us to mollycoddle someone who consistently sulks, and seems to put personal trips ahead of their job, whilst paying them £300k a week for the privilege?
 
NotThatSoph said:
You should only have to spend a couple of minutes. After all this is supposedly very common at the very highest levels of the sport, and the media is going to report anything from the top clubs in England/Spain/Italy/Germany. It's all a quick Google away.

How many things did ten Hag, Solskjær, Mourinho, van Gaal and Moyes break? We can include van Nistelrooy, Rangnick, Carrick and Giggs as well (his partner's face doesn't count), to stack the deck some more.
Click to expand...
:lol: Do you serve any other purpose on this forum apart from arguing incessantly about dumb shit and annoying people ? Off you go, count it yourself how many things Jose broke.
 
NotThatSoph said:
If you think managers thrashing rooms
Click to expand...

Before you make another fuss about people's intelligence being insulted, make sure you stop using manipulative language, such as the above, or using the term "evidence" instead of " indication" in your previous posts.

You may dislike Amorim, but Rashford has had issues with multiple managers, including his NT manager who also dropped him without and never looked back.
 
Who the feck does Rashford think he is?

Prime Ronaldo or Messi?

One good season to get a fat contract and he is too good to put a shift in.

Makes my blood boil!

If you love the club and are a local lad you should care alot more and give everything wich he does not.
 
The Firestarter said:
:lol: Do you serve any other purpose on this forum apart from arguing incessantly about dumb shit and annoying people ? Off you go, count it yourself how many things Jose broke.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure you're the one arguing that managers regularly break things in a fit of rage, not me.

Mourinho is at zero, by the way, since you asked.
 
AlexUTD said:
Who the feck does Rashford think he is?

Prime Ronaldo or Messi?
Click to expand...

If only he did think that.

The thing most fans and pundits, and football directors, haven't come to terms with yet is that there are footballers like Rashford who will never really give a shit about football. Rashford wanted to achieve a certain lifestyle and his football was always a means to that end. When we put a £90m contract in front of him that lifestyle was secured. More and more players are becoming like this.
 
AlexUTD said:
Who the feck does Rashford think he is?

Prime Ronaldo or Messi?

One good season to get a fat contract and he is too good to put a shift in.

Makes my blood boil!

If you love the club and are a local lad you should care alot more and give everything wich he does not.
Click to expand...
It wasn’t even a full good season either. He and his entourage swindled the club for that contract big time. Everyone with half a brain could see it was such a poor decision because he has never had a full consistently good season with the club.
 
chris123 said:


This longer clip seems to be doing the rounds now. This is extremely difficult because I think Ornstein is as good as there is out there, but this just feels like PR spin to me? And yet I don't believe for one second he's the type of journalist that would typically do that sort of PR. It's a very messy situation.

But Ornstein saying: Rashford wasn't the one that initiated his exit, still wants to stay, is still training extremely hard, it's all very very hard for me to believe. Why exactly would Amorim come in and say these things if Rashford clearly didn't do something to put him off?
Click to expand...

Why though? We've seen him walking and jogging about, on the field, for the best part of 18 months+ now (probably even longer). Plus the night outs and being fined/dropped for breaking the rules, ill-discipline etc. Why is Amorim's side of the story so hard to believe if we've all witnessed it before our very own eyes?
 
chris123 said:


This longer clip seems to be doing the rounds now. This is extremely difficult because I think Ornstein is as good as there is out there, but this just feels like PR spin to me? And yet I don't believe for one second he's the type of journalist that would typically do that sort of PR. It's a very messy situation.

But Ornstein saying: Rashford wasn't the one that initiated his exit, still wants to stay, is still training extremely hard, it's all very very hard for me to believe. Why exactly would Amorim come in and say these things if Rashford clearly didn't do something to put him off?
Click to expand...


You don't to where he has got to without it, that's why he gets many exclusive scoops, players agents etc do not give you exclusive info without something in return.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.