Marcus Rashford (out)

CG1010 said:
Looking at how far and wide the headline that “manager would rather play 63 old goalkeeper than Rashford” has spread in mainstream (non-sports) newspapers, this is Rashford’s do or die moment I feel. He can either respond with his football or forever have his career summarised by this statement. Doesn’t matter if it was sensationally reported or not.
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Well, we live in crazy times - so who knows.

But it's going to be pretty difficult for Rashford (his "camp") to spin this his way.

Amorim isn't a lunatic, he's a professional with high standards (that's how he comes across). Most people (who aren't up Rashford's arse) will interpret the latest development as a clear indication that Rashford is the problem, not Amorim.

Regardless of how many "friends" Rashford may have in the mainstream media - I just don't see it as plausible in any way that Amorim comes out of this thing as the bad guy.

And - I will add - Rashford himself would be well adviced to stay far away from making this a him versus Amorim thing. He's going to lose that battle spectacularly.

(And if he doesn't - well! Then we're well and truly fecked! Because if the people above Amorim are on Rashford's side here...

But they aren't - they aren't that stupid.)
 
CG1010 said:
Looking at how far and wide the headline that “manager would rather play 63 old goalkeeper than Rashford” has spread in mainstream (non-sports) newspapers, this is Rashford’s do or die moment I feel. He can either respond with his football or forever have his career summarised by this statement. Doesn’t matter if it was sensationally reported or not.
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His do or die moment was when Rangnick called him out.
 
Reminds me of the Honest Player speech by Jim Telfer, if Amorim tells Rashford he isn't working hard enough, then he isn't working hard enough, Amorim is the judge, not the player.

Clearly Amorim has the support of Wilcox, Berrada and the boys, they just want shot of Rashford and are making it clear he will not play for us again. I don't even think this is principally his wages, it is he attitude and priorities, he is currently a liability to us and building the hard working squad that Amorim wants can't have bad influences life Rashford. Would sell him now for nothing if we had the chance.
 
Happy Head said:
Reminds me of the Honest Player speech by Jim Telfer, if Amorim tells Rashford he isn't working hard enough, then he isn't working hard enough, Amorim is the judge, not the player.

Clearly Amorim has the support of Wilcox, Berrada and the boys, they just want shot of Rashford and are making it clear he will not play for us again. I don't even think this is principally his wages, it is he attitude and priorities, he is currently a liability to us and building the hard working squad that Amorim wants can't have bad influences life Rashford. Would sell him now for nothing if we had the chance.
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That makes zero sense, since he hasn't even played a game since November and the last time we scored over 3 goals in the league was with him in the team.

Mctominay was a beast in training by all accounts, but on match day loved to hide from the ball. There's been loads of players through the years who were renowned to not performing well in training but turn up match day, I truly hope this is not Amorim's real belief that a player must be playing out of their skin in training to deserve a place in the squad because it's just complete nonsense unless he wants passionate merchants all over the field with no talent. Because that was ten hag's way of thinking, where he didn't believe Amad was showing enough in training to overtake Antony who was training his arse off

Amorim sounds if he's appealing to the lowest common denominator to get cheap brownie points. Piling in on rashford is a easy goal, it does nothing to motivate the player and nothing to increase the prospects of attracting a bidder other than providing music to the ears of those who want rashford out by any means
 
The Serpent said:
That makes zero sense, since he hasn't even played a game since November and the last time we scored over 3 goals in the league was with him in the team.

Mctominay was a beast in training by all accounts, but on match day loved to hide from the ball. There's been loads of players through the years who were renowned to not performing well in training but turn up match day, I truly hope this is not Amorim's real belief that a player must be playing out of their skin in training to deserve a place in the squad because it's just complete nonsense unless he wants passionate merchants all over the field with no talent. Because that was ten hag's way of thinking, where he didn't believe Amad was showing enough in training to overtake Antony who was training his arse off

Amorim sounds if he's appealing to the lowest common denominator to get cheap brownie points. Piling in on rashford is a easy goal, it does nothing to motivate the player and nothing to increase the prospects of attracting a bidder other than providing music to the ears of those who want rashford out by any means
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Maybe, but it's been pretty easy to see Marcus not put a shift in during games for a while now. Especially at his age now he can't get away with not putting in an effort, going out when he shouldn't be and lying to the manager about it. He's meant to be a leader in the squad.

Reading the reports it seems like he's been unprofessional for a while now. Some players can get away with not putting in effort in training and going out, but you have to do it in the games. If your not doing it in either then why should the coach play you?
 
Gandalf Greyhame said:
Public perception of the comments aside, it is a bit hearbreaking and infuriating to hear those comments. I had defended Rashford to bits in the Burst Rashy's bubble thread couple of years ago. Quite embarrassingly, I had renamed my professional work in a way that the acronym would spell 'MARCUS' a few years ago (a bit silly but I loved the player to bits). What a waste of talent, what a terrible fall from grace. How humiliating to have your PR claim you're up there with the best when your manager says he'd rather play the GK coach ahead of you. I hope he has someone in his parasitic sycophantic circle who has the kindness to tell him to feel ashamed of what his story has become. You say you want kids from your background to look up to you - and this is what you show them. Hope he gets a reality check and realizes what a shameful disappointment he's finally exposed to be.
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I was of the same opinion as you. I am sickened by the way his career has panned out. He is clearly a massive tool, with an ego that I have come to despise.
 
TrueRed79 said:
I was of the same opinion as you. I am sickened by the way his career has panned out. He is clearly a massive tool, with an ego that I have come to despise.
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Thing is with egos there are usually people in the background massaging it, instead of bringing him back down to earth now and again.
 
Blood Mage said:
The humiliation I would feel as an employee if my boss said that about me. I hope the lad is taking a look at himself in the mirror.

If you no longer enjoy football Marcus just retire.
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If he had the sense to look himself in the mirror, we wouldn't be in this position.
 
Swedish_Plumber said:
Pretty much boots Mr Burt’s argument straight out the window.
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That' makes me laugh it's hilarious considering, when Rooney literally questioned the clubs ambitions, handed in a transfer request and said he wanted to join city and SAF was doing a interview a few days later speaking how he tried everything to keep him onside and wanted to have a meeting with rooney to get him to change his mind and how disappointing he felt knowing he wanted to leave.

Honestly some of these takes on how Fergie's man management with this idea that he kicked out every player who had a personal issue is way wide of the mark and Teddy Sheringham should know better considering the characters he played alongside with
 
duffer said:
It is a real shame how it's ending up for Rashford, even if it's his fault.
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Yeah completely agree with this.

I've ran out of patience with Rashford and want him gone but it's still sad to see it get to this stage. Local lads always get more chances from the fans and rightly so but he's just burned through too many.

Once he's gone, after a few years hopefully the messy end will be forgotten and he'll be appreciated for the good stuff he did.
 
The Serpent said:
That' makes me laugh it's hilarious considering, when Rooney literally questioned the clubs ambitions, handed in a transfer request and said he wanted to join city and SAF was doing a interview a few days later speaking how he tried everything to keep him onside and wanted to have a meeting with rooney to get him to change his mind and how disappointing he felt knowing he wanted to leave.

Honestly some of these takes on how Fergie's man management with this idea that he kicked out every player who had a personal issue is way wide of the mark and Teddy Sheringham should know better considering the characters he played alongside with
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He did, but he made sure the fans knew Rooney wanted to leave. SAF was clever, he made Rooney into the villian of the piece. Remember his final PL parade, the fans booed Rooney. Rooney's reputation has recovered from that because even when his skills were waning he gave everything he could.
 
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The Serpent said:
That' makes me laugh it's hilarious considering, when Rooney literally questioned the clubs ambitions, handed in a transfer request and said he wanted to join city and SAF was doing a interview a few days later speaking how he tried everything to keep him onside and wanted to have a meeting with rooney to get him to change his mind and how disappointing he felt knowing he wanted to leave.

Honestly some of these takes on how Fergie's man management with this idea that he kicked out every player who had a personal issue is way wide of the mark and Teddy Sheringham should know better considering the characters he played alongside with
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He kicked the best CB in the world out of the club, the worlds most marketable player and our best out and our goal scorer of the last 25 years.

You are mistaken.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Probably thought he could chance his hand with a young manager new to the club and the PL and has underestimated how tough Amorim is.
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Also, in the past several years, he (not just him, the players) found that when they give out such statements, it is usually the manager who feels pressurized to take the player back. So the player and their agents let their mouth run for new contracts, playtime and what not.

Didn't work this time.
 
RedDevil@84 said:
Also, in the past several years, he (not just him, the players) found that when they give out such statements, it is usually the manager who feels pressurized to take the player back. So the player and their agents let their mouth run for new contracts, playtime and what not.

Didn't work this time.
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They don't have Ed and Co. to run to this time.
 
Rooney thought about leaving because he was ambitious. Rashford thinks about leaving because he is not. Apples and oranges.

SAF might have fought to keep Rooney at that point, but I'm pretty sure he'd have sold him in the summer of 2013 had he not retired. And you can find dozens of examples during SAFs tenure to understand that the man was absolutely ruthless in his personnel decisions when he needed to be.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Thing is with egos there are usually people in the background massaging it, instead of bringing him back down to earth now and again.
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I definitely agree with you to a point. But he is a grown man now. If he is unable to step back and see his career is literally going down the drain because of who he takes his advice from, then that's all on him. There's just no way he could even run his contract down at this point. Local lad, bleeding the club dry when we are broke. He'd get hell for it. Can't see him knuckling down either. The mask has fully slipped now, and we know he is a lazy cnut that has some form of delusion of grandeur. He should take the money and go to Saudi.
 
The Serpent said:
That' makes me laugh it's hilarious considering, when Rooney literally questioned the clubs ambitions, handed in a transfer request and said he wanted to join city and SAF was doing a interview a few days later speaking how he tried everything to keep him onside and wanted to have a meeting with rooney to get him to change his mind and how disappointing he felt knowing he wanted to leave.

Honestly some of these takes on how Fergie's man management with this idea that he kicked out every player who had a personal issue is way wide of the mark and Teddy Sheringham should know better considering the characters he played alongside with
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Fergie was the master of knowing when a player's baggage was more harmful than what they brought to the team.

That's why he allowed what he did with Keane, Schmeichel, Ince, Cantona, Rooney, Beckham etc.

The second the negative was more than the positive, they were gone.
Rashy would have been gone long before he'd even had the chance to decide he wanted to go.
 
TrueRed79 said:
I definitely agree with you to a point. But he is a grown man now. If he is unable to step back and see his career is literally going down the drain because of who he takes his advice from, then that's all on him. There's just no way he could even run his contract down at this point. Local lad, bleeding the club dry when we are broke. He'd get hell for it. Can't see him knuckling down either. The mask has fully slipped now, and we know he is a lazy cnut that has some form of delusion of grandeur. He should take the money and go to Saudi.
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Yes he is a grown man, but a grown man who has been babied by the club and his hangers on. They end up with such inflated egos that they think they are always right.
 
Infestissumam said:
Rooney thought about leaving because he was ambitious. Rashford thinks about leaving because he is not. Apples and oranges.

SAF might have fought to keep Rooney at that point, but I'm pretty sure he'd have sold him in the summer of 2013 had he not retired. And you can find dozens of examples during SAFs tenure to understand that the man was absolutely ruthless in his personnel decisions if he needed to be.
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Yeah, it was clear the direction Fergie was heading. He left Rooney out for Welbeck in quite a few important games that year.

I think Fergie felt boxed in when Rooney asked to leave in 2010. We'd just lost Ronaldo and Tevez, and couldn't realistically let Rooney go too — especially for Man City. Any other time and I reckon Fergie boots him out the club straight away.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
Yeah, it was clear the direction Fergie was heading. He left Rooney out for Welbeck in quite a few important games that year.

I think Fergie felt boxed in when Rooney asked to leave in 2010. We'd just lost Ronaldo and Tevez, and couldn't realistically let Rooney go too — especially for Man City. Any other time and I reckon Fergie boots him out the club straight away.
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And he'd have been right to do so, it was the perfect summer to sell Rooney. Maximum value for a player about to decline.
 
Swedish_Plumber said:
He kicked the best CB in the world out of the club, the worlds most marketable player and our best out and our goal scorer of the last 25 years.

You are mistaken.
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I never claimed he didn't boot players out of the club. All those players were sold for various different reasons, one was because of what they wrote a book about the transfer dealings, becks was due to the media circus that followed him around and ruud was because he wanted to move to a different system.

In all those instances you would never find Fergie in pressers airing the clubs dirty laundry and character assinating his own players to try and appear tough and hard lined to the fans. Even when Smikes tried to fight him after a game he didn't kick him out of the club, even when Becks showed his wounds to the media after fergie kicked a boot in his face he didn't kick them out of them.

Fergie was not some mindless military sergeant where it was always his way or the high way he would do his best to resolve issues internally

I think people hear stories about how ruthless fergie was and weren't actually around during the days and the multiple different problems and characters he encountered to truly understand the multi social skills and man management genius he carred. Any manager is capable of making an example of a player for the sake of making an example, but that was not the intention of Fergie he would only go to such measures if push come to shove or if it was personal thing which compromised the clubs image such as Stam reaving being tapped up, or Beck's media celebrity circus deflecting from the club

Both ten hag and Amorim are showing them selves to be Fergie wannabes without understanding you don't have to go to the extreme and exile a player if you want to get rid of them
 
The Urban Goose said:
And he'd have been right to do so, it was the perfect summer to sell Rooney. Maximum value for a player about to decline.
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Yep. It's interesting to think through the direction Fergie would have taken the squad had he remained in charge over the last decade. I think it's clear that a major overhaul was needed towards the end. A lot of our key players were winding down their careers and the brilliance of Van Persie and Carrick was carrying the team.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
Yeah, it was clear the direction Fergie was heading. He left Rooney out for Welbeck in quite a few important games that year.

I think Fergie felt boxed in when Rooney asked to leave in 2010. We'd just lost Ronaldo and Tevez, and couldn't realistically let Rooney go too — especially for Man City. Any other time and I reckon Fergie boots him out the club straight away.
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Wasn’t there someone known to Fergie - I have it in head it was Paul Hayward, after he did Fergie’s book - who spoke years later about how disrespected Fergie felt by that episode and how resentful he of Rooney afterwards. Not a chance he’d have let Rooney have the last word.
 
Brophs said:
Wasn’t there someone known to Fergie - I have it in head it was Paul Hayward, after he did Fergie’s book - who spoke years later about how disrespected Fergie felt by that episode and how resentful he of Rooney afterwards. Not a chance he’d have let Rooney have the last word.
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You could see how Fergie struggled to congratulate Rooney on the podium for the last medal ceremony it was very awkward.
 
duffer said:
You think Rashford is trying to move to Barcelona due to a lack of ambition?
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no, but I think it speaks volumes that Amorim dropped him for poor training performances and he yapped about "being ready for a new challenge" a day later. He could have taken this as a challenge to fight for his spot and put in the work, but he clearly hasn't. The moment a manager finally questioned his commitment and hunger, he decided to hightail.
 
Brophs said:
Wasn’t there someone known to Fergie - I have it in head it was Paul Hayward, after he did Fergie’s book - who spoke years later about how disrespected Fergie felt by that episode and how resentful he of Rooney afterwards. Not a chance he’d have let Rooney have the last word.
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I remember something like that. I think it was not just a sense of disrespect but the feeling of being out of control. It probably drove him mad. I guess it actually speaks to Fergie's pragmatism and professionalism that he was able to tolerate Rooney signing the new contract as he knew it was best for the team if he stayed a few more years.
 
Infestissumam said:
no, but I think it speaks volumes that Amorim dropped him for poor training performances and he yapped about "being ready for a new challenge" a day later. He could have taken this as a challenge to fight for his spot and put in the work, but he clearly hasn't. The moment a manager finally questioned his commitment and hunger, he decided to hightail.
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He's obviously made up his mind that he wants a move to Barcelona. Him being out of favour with the manager will help that move happen.

It's he's busting a gut, playing every week and being praised then the club will ask for more and the move is less likely to happen.

It's shady and undignified but that's my tin foil hat take on this situation.
 
duffer said:
He's obviously made up his mind that he wants a move to Barcelona. Him being out of favour with the manager will help that move happen.

It's he's busting a gut, playing every week and being praised then the club will ask for more and the move is less likely to happen.

It's shady and undignified but that's my tin foil hat take on this situation.
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its how he’s been for quite some time, its not like he suddenly changed because he wants out
 
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