Great news we need to clear out some cbs and keep trying to get the quality of rio and vidic. We cannot settle for anything less.
Marcos Rojo possible exit
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If we could get around £20m for Rojo, or a bit less, I'd bite their hands off. He is barely gonna feature this season, he's 5th choice and we need to ship at least 1, preferably 2, CB's if we're buying a new one.
4 months in 4 years
Every word I wanted to say. I'd keep Smalling cos he can actually defend. Great we're finally ridding us of dead wood.
I'm. Not going to define our standards by transfer rumours. Rather by the centre backs who've played for us.like chasing Smalling/Jones 2.0 for 60+ million in a mad scramble at the end of the transfer window?
Vidic, Ferdinand, Stam, Johnsen, Bruce, Pallister, etc.
We've had Silvestre and Heinze too, but they got moved on. Anyone who isn't good enough eventually is.
Here's how much CBs are going for now -
Micheal Keane : 30 million pounds
Yerry Mina : 30 million pounds
Jamaal Lascelles : 40-45 million (what Newcastle is asking for according to rumors)
Rugani : 45 million bid from Chelsea rejected (allegedly)
John Stones : 50 million pounds
Jerome Boateng : 50-60 million Euros
Laporte : 56 million pounds
Skriniar : 65 million bid rejected (allegedly)
Harry Maguire : 65 million pounds
Toby Alderweireld : 60-75 million pounds (rumored)
VVD : 75 million pounds
Koulibaly : 90 million pounds bid rejected (most probably bs, but that's what Napoli claim)
The least established of the group, Mina who was bought from the Brazilian league for 9 million 6 months ago is worth 30 million now.
Boateng who is 29,injury prone, had a bad season and a catastrophic WC is being valued by Bayern at 50 mill
Toby Alderweireld, 29,injury prone, clause kicking in next year is worth (at least) 60 mill according to Spurs
Harry Maguire, bought for 12 million last year is worth 65 million pounds plus after one good WC showing against some weak as* countries
But somehow, valuing Jones as 35 million is mental; valuing Smalling at 50 is crazy; selling Rojo for 25 million pounds is a steal... well, it's not. Its just the going rate of average defenders now.
How on earth is Jones a lesser player than Rugani and Jamaal Lascelles? What has Maguire l, Laporte and Skriniar done to be valued at twice what Jones is valued at by many here?
I'm happy we are looking for a decent price for our players.
Micheal Keane : 30 million pounds
Yerry Mina : 30 million pounds
Jamaal Lascelles : 40-45 million (what Newcastle is asking for according to rumors)
Rugani : 45 million bid from Chelsea rejected (allegedly)
John Stones : 50 million pounds
Jerome Boateng : 50-60 million Euros
Laporte : 56 million pounds
Skriniar : 65 million bid rejected (allegedly)
Harry Maguire : 65 million pounds
Toby Alderweireld : 60-75 million pounds (rumored)
VVD : 75 million pounds
Koulibaly : 90 million pounds bid rejected (most probably bs, but that's what Napoli claim)
The least established of the group, Mina who was bought from the Brazilian league for 9 million 6 months ago is worth 30 million now.
Boateng who is 29,injury prone, had a bad season and a catastrophic WC is being valued by Bayern at 50 mill
Toby Alderweireld, 29,injury prone, clause kicking in next year is worth (at least) 60 mill according to Spurs
Harry Maguire, bought for 12 million last year is worth 65 million pounds plus after one good WC showing against some weak as* countries
But somehow, valuing Jones as 35 million is mental; valuing Smalling at 50 is crazy; selling Rojo for 25 million pounds is a steal... well, it's not. Its just the going rate of average defenders now.
How on earth is Jones a lesser player than Rugani and Jamaal Lascelles? What has Maguire l, Laporte and Skriniar done to be valued at twice what Jones is valued at by many here?
I'm happy we are looking for a decent price for our players.
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Tbf 25m for Rojo sounds about right, on the low side if anything. The defenders who go for 30m at the moment are average players not even internationals. Rojo’s a starter for Argentina and at prime age.
Jones should go for ~35 being and English international but I think his contract is running out which might make it difficult to sell.
He was an utter lunatic, bless him
Jones should go for ~35 being and English international but I think his contract is running out which might make it difficult to sell.
He was an utter lunatic, bless him
I've never rated him as a centreback. I would have liked to have tried him more often as a defensive leftback, since we're so light in that area. It seems Mourinho may have different ideas. Hopefully it means we're strengthening in that position.
Agree but I still think £25m is a reasonable price for Rojo, possible £30m at a squeeze.
He manages half a season all the time hes been here. hes an average defender at best. We should be looking to move him on as well, but I couldnt see anyone taking a gamble with him unless he goes either really low price, or on a free.
He's been here 4 seasons, and in that time he had one good 3 or 4 month period in 16/17.
Other than that he's been an average CB at best with a terrible injury record.
He's also an awful left back, playing with him there is like playing with ten men.
I'd be delighted if we got rid.
Other than that he's been an average CB at best with a terrible injury record.
He's also an awful left back, playing with him there is like playing with ten men.
I'd be delighted if we got rid.
If they are really going to give us 25m for him I will get time off work, buy a car and drive him to Wolverhampton myself. I’ll even buy him a chicken tikka slice from the services.
So if I asked you for an opinion on Harry Maguire, who has played in the PL for years, at the beginning of May, you would say you have none?
Again people throwing Smalling’s name in the same discussion about the three useless gits that are Rojo, Jones and Darmian.
Yes please.
Ond good spell pre injury but essentially a fairly average premier league defender.
If we can get anywhere near 25-30m we've had a stormer
If we can get anywhere near 25-30m we've had a stormer
Rojo is not on 160k/w. If it was true, why would he leave United? Club like Wolves'd never pay him 160k/w
Smalling, Jones and Rojo all seem in the same class to me
can look fantastic, solid and reliable 80% of the time
they've been unable to show more consistency or work the brainfarts out of their game though so one at least should go
Happy enough to see Rojo go.... I'd prefer to see Tuanzebe on the fringes of the squad and I think Lindelof is a better defender than many think
can look fantastic, solid and reliable 80% of the time
they've been unable to show more consistency or work the brainfarts out of their game though so one at least should go
Happy enough to see Rojo go.... I'd prefer to see Tuanzebe on the fringes of the squad and I think Lindelof is a better defender than many think
If hes an average defender how come several managers have picked him and he keeps up to £30 million bought CBs out of the team?
People like to do weird financial math with grass-is-greener players at other clubs, like "If VVD is worth £75 million then Maguire must be worth £65 million"
But Jones has seen off Bailly and Lindelof to be our starter last season. Whether you like it or not, thats a fact.
So at this point in time hes proven to be worth more than 2x £30 million+ CBs who were both bought before CB fees have seemingly doubled.
Jones outperforming 2x £30 million+ CBs in his managers eyes is far more relevant than assumption that if 1 player from another team is worth something, then another player from a different team is worth something else. Because he's factually done it and been selected over them. For all we know Maguire could go to Liverpool and Lovren keeps his place next to VVD because his manager feels hes outfperforming him, ala Jones with Bailly and Lindelof.
I'm pretty sure nobody thought that Jones would be picked instead of Bailly when we signed him, or Lindelof when we signed him. Why? Because of hype and the grass is greener nature of football fans and especially on here. But he has been. Whether you or I like it or rate him higher than the other players, he made himself a first choice CB when the two other players were available.
So no he isnt a trash tier CB. He may be one that isnt quite good enough to be starting for us in every type of game, I think most people agree with that and we seem to be trying to sign a new CB so that would indicate the same. But just because we seem to be after £65 million and £70 million CBs doesnt mean Jones is terrible. It means we think he's not quite as good as £70 or 65 million CBs. That doesnt mean he isnt valuable, quite the opposite in fact.
And for all the experts on here know, Jones might actually outperform another expensive CB we bring in just like Jones and Smalling have continued to do as we've bought in Rojo, Bailly and Lindelof in previous seasons for substantial money for CBs at the time. With the inflation they'd probably be £65 million CBs too.
It's the standard severe underrating of our players and overrating of others. However, Rojo at £25m would be a good deal for us given his wages and status at the club. But, selling Jones for £15m to buy Maguire for £65m does not sit well for me, as solid as Maguire is.
Jones, if sold, will probably move to midtable PL clubs, none of whom would be willing to match his salary and the 35m pounds transfer fee, costliest defender moved to a midtable club is Michael Keane I think, he'd have been on a small salary at Burnley. I can see Jones going for 10-15m pounds if we want to selll him on.
Absolutely hopeless at left back. Unfair to play him there really.
Had a purple patch at CB and nothing more.
Caveman when it comes to defending. OK for a defender on the ball.
Time to go.
Had a purple patch at CB and nothing more.
Caveman when it comes to defending. OK for a defender on the ball.
Time to go.
For real, 10 million pounds?!
The Liverpool third choice keeper was sold for 12 million and a 26 year old, England International CB is going to sold for 10 million pounds?
Can you even show me a transfer that happened this year for a fee less than 10 mill?
You know what, I'll do that for you :
Afobe, Boly, Evans, Etebo, Sobhi, Watkins, Fabianski, Amstrong, Flint, Smithies, Sam Johnstone, Bernando, Guendouzi, McClean, Moutinho, Tom Ince
These are the transfers with fee of 10 million or less (not including free transfers). Is this the group of players Phil Jones belongs in? I know he ain't world class, but he's way way better than anyone in that group.
Danny Ward, who made three appearances for Liverpool since signing in 2012,was sold for 12.5 million pounds, which makes him more valuable than Jones according to your valuation
Couldn't agree more, he's never inspired confidence for any length of time. He's a mistake or red card waiting to happen. We've already got ample supply of that in Jones.
If I was given the choice at the start of the window who to get rid of then Rojo would have been top of the list.
Then factor in that Jones wages are many multiples of the players listed, add in an injury history that would scare the life out of any prospective club medical team and you have a player that we will be giving away.
He played very well at CB in Jose’s first season, before he got injured. Hasn’t had the chance to get back to his best.
Yet Rojo who had an ACL tear, much more serious an injury than Jones has ever had is going to Wolves for a fee of 25-30 million pounds and he's on 160,000 a week (allegedly). He's neither English, nor homegrown, is two years older than Jones and for me an inferior defender. But Rojo is worth almost thrice as Jones?
Not to mention Blind, who I'm guessing was paid around the same wages as Jones, was bought by a club from the Dutch league for 17 million. You would think if anyone has a problem paying those sky high wages our players are on, it would be the teams from the Dutch league and not the English teams that are loaded
If our fans were in charge of our transfer business, our entire squad would have been sold off for 100 million and a bottle of wine
Good post. What I'm getting from posters on this forum is :
If a CB is at United they're worth under £20 million.
If a CB is not at United and the poster has seen them in less than 10 full matches in the past year, they're worth £50 million+
Lots of players have had an ACL tear and recover fully, Jones injuries are in a completely different ball park.
Also I would doubt if Rojo's wages are half that, certainly he will take a significant pay cut if he does transfer.
Mixed feelings on this one.
Always puts in a shift, seems like a nice lad, never complains. Can play in a couple positions aswell.
Unfortunately he's a red card waiting to happen, and should probably had red card in most games he played for us
And i don't think he's good enough.
That said, i rather see Jones and Smalling leave before him.
Always puts in a shift, seems like a nice lad, never complains. Can play in a couple positions aswell.
Unfortunately he's a red card waiting to happen, and should probably had red card in most games he played for us
And i don't think he's good enough.
That said, i rather see Jones and Smalling leave before him.
hes on 70k a week, hopefully Wolves can pay that
Mixed feelings on this one.
Always puts in a shift, seems like a nice lad, never complains. Can play in a couple positions aswell.
Unfortunately he's a red card waiting to happen, and should probably had red card in most games he played for us
And i don't think he's good enough.
That said, i rather see Jones and Smalling leave before him.
Didn't he smash someone in the face with a glass some years ago?
But to add to those reasons, he seems to be perennially injured, and not just the ACL, but also a lot before and after that. He's a good player, but just can't be depended on.
I'd rather Rojo and Jones go way before Smalling though. The latter has just had a good season, is generally reliable and is fit 90% of the time, way more than anyone else we have in that position. Until Bailly can become reliable and play 40-50 games a season, we'd be mad to get rid of Smalling, Especially if the incoming CB is Alderweireld who is as injury prone as the rest.
IMO Bailly, Maguire, Smalling and Lindelof would be a pretty good pool of centre backs.
Yeah and many don't recover fully from their ACL tears. Rojo has been very bad since coming back from the injury, he may not ever recover his pre injury form.
Now about Phil Jones, hers is his injury history
17/18 Hamstring Injury - 54 days 9
17/18 Hamstring Injury - 17 days 4
16/17 Toe Injury - 45 days 10
16/17 Knee injury - 59 days 13
15/16 Malleolar injury - 56 days 12
15/16 Sprained Ankle - 35 days 7
15/16 Sprained Ankle - 17 days 4
15/16 Venous occlusion - 49 days 10
14/15 Malleolar injury - 17 days 2
14/15 Shinbone injury - 49 days 7
He does get injured a lot, but if you look at the list , his injuries are mostly simple injuries. None of them are recurring injuries or injuries which could make him rapidly decline like an ACL tear.
As someone else said, he had 23 starts last year, second only to Smalling.
If I had a choice, I would go with the player who suffers from many unlucky injuries, small nibbles rather than a player who has torn his cruciate. So I don't understand why 'Jones injuries are in a completely different ball park'.
If Rojo's wages are 80k,then so are Jones and he too will be taking a pay cut when and if he moves. None of the things you said explains why Jones would only fetch 10-15 million in the transfer market when Rojo is about to be sold for double that
I assume Blind probably took a pay cut to move back to Ajax, we can't say the same for Jones, and I think Jones would be on a very high salary than Blind. Jones situation is closer to Evans' I think and Evans was sold for 8m pounds. May be considering inflation we might get 15-20m pounds but no way we'd get 35m-40m for Jones or Smalling for that matter(unless a top 6 club wants to sign them).
Yeah and many don't recover fully from their ACL tears. Rojo has been very bad since coming back from the injury.
Now about Phil Jones, hers is his injury history
17/18 Hamstring Injury - 54 days 9
17/18 Hamstring Injury - 17 days 4
16/17 Toe Injury - 45 days 10
16/17 Knee injury - 59 days 13
15/16 Malleolar injury - 56 days 12
15/16 Sprained Ankle - 35 days 7
15/16 Sprained Ankle - 17 days 4
15/16 Venous occlusion - 49 days 10
14/15 Malleolar injury - 17 days 2
14/15 Shinbone injury - 49 days 7
He does get injured a lot, but if you look at the list , his injuries are mostly simple injuries. None of them are recurring injuries or injuries which could make him rapidly decline like an ACL tear.So I don't understand why 'Jones injuries are in a completely different ball park'.
If Rojo's wages are 80k,then so are Jones and he too will be taking a pay cut when and if he moves. None of the things you said explains why Jones would only fetch 10-15 million in the transfer market
Most players do recover fully from ACL injuries these days and a one off traumatic injury is not the same as repeated injuries. He has a history of recurrent ankle and muscle problems , the malleolar and ankle injuries being related.
I really like Jones and I didn't say he is only worth 10-15 million, however if I was a PL manager I would look elsewhere.
An ACL tear is probably the worst injury an Athlete can suffer from. They may make full recoveries but are very rarely able to achieve their pre injury levels.
Look at Zlatan and Laporte for example with the latter losing his pace after the injury. Both players are injury prone with Jones having more frequent injuries whereas Rojo has had one very serious injury.
I can't say if a PL. manager would buy him or not, and don't see why a mid table team wouldn't because all the England Internationals play for the top teams. Not to mention he helps with the home grown quota. Even if you ignore that, just looking at the rate below average CBs are going, anything below 30 million would be a very poor business from us IMO. If Mina, Lascelles and Keane are worth 30 million plus, Jones sure is worth at least that
How can he possibly be on £160K a week?
If he is then we are paying him circa 15m to go!
I can't imagine he is on anything like that though. 100k, maybe.
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