I really don't know why this 3rd party ownership thing is allowed.
Marcos Rojo | Manchester United Player Pending Medical
- Thread starter Hawkeye
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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So, just in case, I picked you up wrong - are you saying you know these reports are not "facts"? My point is, unless you work for Doyen or are actually Carvalho himself, then you cant say they aren't. Nobody knows.
I agree reporting them as fact in the first place is equally folly.
No. I said it´s a report and i don´t know if it´s a actual fact or not. What´s so hard to understand? I will stand by my club side but until i see the actual contracts, i won´t take them as gospel obviously. I can´t say with certainty that the clause report is false but i tend to believe in a President who has done dozens of transfer deals with their respective contracts since he got elected instead of a fund who used his portuguese rep to impersonate an United rep and has been sending SMS threatning that Rojo would start problems at the Academy (thing that he eventually did). We will only know the factual details if there is a transfer deal. If it happens Sporting has to communicate the values and details to the CMVM (portuguese stock exchange) since we are PLC
Supply and demand. It allows clubs like Sporting to afford young South American talents. It also gives young South American talents the opportunity to play for Champions League sides.
If Woodward learnt anything from last year, we would just drop this rather than prolong till the last day only to feck it up.
It does nothing of all that. It just gives dubious financial funds an opportunity to steal money of fans clubs and players imo.
Well, yes, it does that as well. Remember, it is high risk investment for the third party owners, for every success there will be many failures where they lose their money.
It also allows the clubs to live above their means. Now we are buying the South American/African talents we can afford and own them 90 to 100%. Prefer that way.
Clubs like
Sporting are not forced to use them, they can buy players with their own money if they wanted to.
Its a bit different this time, the player is willing to stop going training til he gets the move. The 3rd party owners think they might not get a chance to earn a lot from him so would prefer the deal be done now. Im sure a solution will be found with Sporting seeing as Rojos value isn't exactly going to increase after this fiasco.
When your agent is going to get 75% of the transfer fee, I'm pretty sure he would advise his investment to hand in a transfer request whoever was offering the cash!
It's a really complicated situation, one that I don't fully understand! All I do know is the lad clearly wants to join us and as LVG has said previously he only wants to sign players that want to play for the club. Let's hope we can sort this situation quickly I do like the cut of this young mans gib!
During Godinho Lopes (our previous president) mandate, it served for half of dozen corrupt few to fill their pockets and the depletion of club resources. Our President has been solving most of the problems (Labyad, Bojinov, Onyewu, Bouhlarouz, Pranjic) but there are still some player/fund contracts (Rojo). The end of Sporting/fund cooperation has lowered our budget considerably but i don´t mind. I prefer to own the players rights integrally and like i said live within our means.
Are they his agents too? Thought they just part owned him?
I'm trying to figure out what FIFA/UEFA's take on this would be in this case. Legally only Sporting are within their jurisdiction and it is Sporting that entered into contract with this fund, a contract which affects their independent use of the player because it forces them to accept a certain bid or face financial penalties. How will FIFA deal with this when they predictably budge in ?
Good point, he might have another agent that wants paying millions too.
The cynical world of football.
I will stay evasive but Doyen are the principal owner of the contract, and they gave Sporting the right to register the player for 25% of the contract. In term of property law the question is who got the usufruct, the abusus and the fructus.
If it is not specifically stipulated in the contract between Sporting and Doyen then the Sporting will be screwd in civil court.
Thanks but within the football regulations aren't they in a shitstorm with FIFA over the TPO.
Is there another top club in Europe as garbage at us in the transfer windows...Herrera took over 18mths to secure and now Rojo could become a player we spend weeks trying to secure to end in failure. Time of the essence and we waste so much of it time after time for what are not even the top drawer players. Laughable really.
No the TPO is legal, FIFA doesn't care, if everyone respect the laws.
What went wrong with this deal? Im trying to figure out if we took the right steps (i.e, hope we didn't tap him up). Don't teams officially get permission to talk to players? If this is the case and Rojo agreed personal terms with United then why are Porto being so bullish? Or do I have it wrong here...is Rojo actually fighting for the chance to officially talk to United?
Transfer deals are (as everyone in football advises us) already in motion 3 months before the window opens. This is common sense anyway so I'd expect thats how things work. The main aim of this approach is surely to not waste a cingle second of a transfer window on guaging a players availability or finding complex ownership arrangements at the last minute. God knows how a club in our dire situation seems to fall over at every hurdle. Not going for Cesc Fabregas and getting no other midfielder is criminal!
Could Rojo signing mean chances for Shaw are extremely limited?
If we got Cesc or Kroos, we would still need a DM and a CB like we do now. So not much would have changed in our situation.
He plays CB for club.
Isn't Rojo a left footed centre back?
They wouldn't be competing for the same spot IMO.
We may try him there due to Shaw's injury, he has the pace to overlap and can actually defend unlike Young. The fixture list means he should have a pretty relaxed introduction to English football so I would expect him to be fine
Would give Shaw a chance to recover and build his fitness to the required standard.
Rojo is a CB.
My bad, for some reason I thought he was a LB, disregard my comment then!
He'll play as a LCB, if we got Vermaelen, i doubt we would be going after Rojo. He can cover for Shaw though.
I was mistaken the first time too. He did play LB in the WC I think.My bad, for some reason I thought he was a LB, disregard my comment then!
He's quite clearly the backup target to Vermaelen.
Yeah I think he did, probably why I thought so.
It's why I thought Van Gaal might play him there, as it was as a LB that he was impressed by him.
Who knows, will probably play both at some stage if he signs.
Translations of Doyen and Sporting's press releases talk about it, but without naming the potential buying club.
http://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/2dipj2/doyen_sports_press_release_about_mangalas/
From Sporting's statement it seems the agent had permission to look for a move for Rojo, but that permission was removed on the 23rd July. An offer coming in after that date was rejected by Sporting on the 8th. Interestingly that's the day the Rojo to United story broke - because the player followed some United players on Instagram
My guess is that the player knew the bid was in and (because of Doyen's ability/willingness to act if a bid above €15m came in) he assumed the deal would be done. Did we tap him up? Well we could legitimately have spoken to him/his agent in July. My guess is that when Doyen heard our bid had been rejected they went in to find out why and ended up embarrassing and angering Sporting and its President.
United might have been able to do a club to club deal, but once Doyen had raised the emotional temperature it became very much harder.
From what I've seen at the WC he's capable and really quick so he can fill at the LB spot. Since Shaw is missing the start of the season it makes sense for us to push the move for Rojo, or whatever LB/CB option.
I thought young was quite good defensively during the tour.
The role seemed a perfect fit for him to be fair.
Sorry off topic
To be fair, he was barely tested defensively other than the Liverpool game where he was partly responsible for the penalty. He has been impressive with his forays forward and his crosses especially. However, I just don't think he will cut it out defensively against the likes of Walcott, Sanchez, Sterling, Hazard etc. It would have been better to have kept Evra or heck even Buttner. Lets see how he performs in the opening games in the EPL.
Seems very silly for Sporting to be digging their heels in when it's only going to cost them money.
Rojo is finished at Sporting either way, that's obvious. Whether they sell him for 20m euros or for 30m, Sporting won't see any more money come their way due to contractual terms with Doyen and Spartak. And in rejecting a bid over a certain amount (we can probably assume 20m euros) they are contractually obliged to buy out the rest of Doyen's ownership, which they obviously can't afford to do.
Think we should give them Anderson as a present to smooth things over.
Rojo is finished at Sporting either way, that's obvious. Whether they sell him for 20m euros or for 30m, Sporting won't see any more money come their way due to contractual terms with Doyen and Spartak. And in rejecting a bid over a certain amount (we can probably assume 20m euros) they are contractually obliged to buy out the rest of Doyen's ownership, which they obviously can't afford to do.
Think we should give them Anderson as a present to smooth things over.
Translations of Doyen and Sporting's press releases talk about it, but without naming the potential buying club.
http://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/2dipj2/doyen_sports_press_release_about_mangalas/
From Sporting's statement it seems the agent had permission to look for a move for Rojo, but that permission was removed on the 23rd July. An offer coming in after that date was rejected by Sporting on the 8th. Interestingly that's the day the Rojo to United story broke - because the player followed some United players on Instagram
My guess is that the player knew the bid was in and (because of Doyen's ability/willingness to act if a bid above €15m came in) he assumed the deal would be done. Did we tap him up? Well we could legitimately have spoken to him/his agent in July. My guess is that when Doyen heard our bid had been rejected they went in to find out why and ended up embarrassing and angering Sporting and its President.
United might have been able to do a club to club deal, but once Doyen had raised the emotional temperature it became very much harder.
I hate to sound pessimistic but it all sounds too familiar doesn't it? It seems our rivals close their deals without much of a fuss, or maybe being a United fan makes me feel this way, idk.
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