What about the pressure of paying 15 million in a couple months when the transfer window is closed, money which they don't have? Then selling the player for below value because he wants away?
Marcos Rojo | Manchester United Player Pending Medical
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What about the pressure of paying 15 million in a couple months when the transfer window is closed, money which they don't have? Then selling the player for below value because he wants away?
That is just silly look at Southampton for example they have have lost half of their starting eleven and are yet to replace the majority of those players.
I disagree, because if they make the payment, surely they then own the player outright from that point onwards.
It's not like they pay 15m and still only own 25% of him. Their choice is buy him for 15m or sell him for 4m.
In that situation they should buy him; keep him for a year and sell him for 20m+
Except for the fact, there's no clause like that.
If Sporting don't accept the bid, then they have to pay 15m as a fine rather than getting rights over him.
EDIT: Also even if that was the case, Sporting still won't pay 15m to sign him. It won't make sense.
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I assumed the "fine" for not accepting the bid was that Sporting would then be contractually compelled to buy Doyen out of their share at the same value as the rejected offer - so if they reject 20m euros they have to buy out Doyen's share for 15m euros.
If it is just a fine, and Sporting still only own 25% after paying it, their former president must be one hell of an idiot.
Either way though, there's zero possibility of them paying it. Firstly because there's no chance of Rojo and Sporting's president, manager, team mates and fans all coming back to good terms after this. But mainly because they can't afford it. They're not going to give 15m euros that they don't have to keep a player who has burned his bridges with the club.
Taking into account the contractual agreements with Doyen and Spartak, Sporting really are behaving like clueless idiots over this. When you let third parties buy your players for you you have no right to expect any significant profit on them. If they take it to the courts they'll lose and will lose a fortune to Doyen and legal fees, and they'll still lose Rojo. If they had any sense they would accept the deal, take the 2m euro profit, and learn from their mistakes.
If it is just a fine, and Sporting still only own 25% after paying it, their former president must be one hell of an idiot.
Either way though, there's zero possibility of them paying it. Firstly because there's no chance of Rojo and Sporting's president, manager, team mates and fans all coming back to good terms after this. But mainly because they can't afford it. They're not going to give 15m euros that they don't have to keep a player who has burned his bridges with the club.
Taking into account the contractual agreements with Doyen and Spartak, Sporting really are behaving like clueless idiots over this. When you let third parties buy your players for you you have no right to expect any significant profit on them. If they take it to the courts they'll lose and will lose a fortune to Doyen and legal fees, and they'll still lose Rojo. If they had any sense they would accept the deal, take the 2m euro profit, and learn from their mistakes.
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The €15m is to buy out Doyen's share of the player. To make blocking a deal this summer worthwhile financially they would be banking on someone offering more money next year, which is a gamble I don't think Sporting can afford to take.
They may have some hope after unilaterally cancelling their contract with Doyen that the €15m is now fixed and they can quickly sell for more than the €20m. That would be one for the courts to decide. Once lawyers get involved all kinds of outcomes are possible depending on the exact wording of the contract and the incidents that led to the cancellation.
Of course, when people get angry it can take a while for the rational (financial!) to take over again, and Sporting are angry.
They may have some hope after unilaterally cancelling their contract with Doyen that the €15m is now fixed and they can quickly sell for more than the €20m. That would be one for the courts to decide. Once lawyers get involved all kinds of outcomes are possible depending on the exact wording of the contract and the incidents that led to the cancellation.
Of course, when people get angry it can take a while for the rational (financial!) to take over again, and Sporting are angry.
We're in trouble here because I think we've left it too late to bring a defender in now. We have only have two weeks of the transfer window left and this Rojo thing isn't going to resolve itself in that time, unless we pay £30m I suspect. So we either pay up immediately or look elsewhere to see what we can get in this short time period, even if it ends up being Vlaar or someone of that ilk. I don't fancy facing Everton, Chelsea and City in the space of a couple of weeks with someone like Michael Keane playing at centre back, no matter how promising he is.
Where have you read this Jo?
I just read this. Says nothing about buying out the Doyen's share of player.
Surely it has to be to buy out Doyen's share.. if it isn't that would mean that multiple rejected bids would lead to multiple massive fines.
There's surely no way any club would agree to that.
There's surely no way any club would agree to that.
If Fifa had any sense (which they don't) they would ban all third party arrangements because they're nothing but trouble.
But that could work in Sporting's favour too, say if a club offered 5m for Rojo, Sporting reject the offer and buy out the rights for him for 3.75m Euros. Would be a cheap deal.
The buyout clause is £24m and we've bid £16m. We'll probably add a few incentives to Sporting (a friendly or 2, maybe some other bonuses) and seal the deal, below £24m.
I think there's a threshold value for the clause though. Sporting can't just buy them out for any amount that's bid and then rejected.
Fair assumption that the threshold value is 20m.
Well we don't know for sure, because we haven't seen the contracts. But Sevilla had a similar contract on Kondogbia though in their case they owned 50% and that was how their contract was structured. The investors could trigger an option once the offer reached a certain minimum to cash in, the club then had to buy them out either by selling the player of finding the funds some other way.
In the Kondogbia case the player's release clause was €20m and the "minimum cash in" was €10m. I think we're looking at the same contract here with the player release set at €30m but the minimum cash-in at 15m - hence why the player thought Sporting had to take the offer once Doyen activated the request to cash-in.
We'll end up paying £24m anyway, might as well get it done now and get him in as soon as possible. He's not worth that much, but what difference does an extra £8m make to a club like ours?
I personally thing that exact thing will happen early next week. This is certainly happening, IMO.
We would end up paying more than that if we drag it onto Deadline Day as they will know we are desperate.
That of course is the legally fascinating one. Can Sporting sell cheap (and perhaps sell United a "development contract" for a couple of youth team players
)Did they unilaterally cancel the contract just before Doyen raised an invoice (as it were) and did they have just cause to do so.
That could keep a whole flotilla of lawyers happy for months/years depending on the exact wording of the contract and the court's view of Sporting's just cause. However the court could just as well rule that Sporting's "just cause" was a deliberate act to wriggle out of the contract and slap them with a compensation bill of a similar amount.
That's the clause. Even if we're desperate, they can't make us to pay more.
That of course is the legally fascinating one. Can Sporting sell cheap (and perhaps sell United a "development contract" for a couple of youth team players
Did they unilaterally cancel the contract just before Doyen raised an invoice (as it were) and did they have just cause to do so.
That could keep a whole flotilla of lawyers happy for months/years depending on the exact wording of the contract and the court's view of Sporting's just cause. However the court could just as well rule that Sporting's "just cause" was a deliberate act to wriggle out of the contract and slap them with a compensation bill of a similar amount.
Sporting have nothing to show here personally. They sold Rojo's 75% to Doyen Sports and it seems were contractually obligated to pay them a part of any bids of about 20m Euros. If they go to courts, then Sporting will be the ones who will be coming out with heavy fines and not Doyen.
We would have to take them and Doyen to court to enforce the clause, which would be very complicated and would not be done by Deadline Day.
Do you know what the meaning of buyout clause is?
The only reason why all this is happening because we're bidding 10m Euros short of the release clause. Bid the release clause then it's out of the club's hands.
I don't think that's quite true. If we can get Sporting thinking about their financial best interests that isn't the deal that they would want. That extra €10m may give them less that €1m if the contracts are actually upheld.
A side deal would be better for them and cheaper for us, and here's the thing - I doubt Doyen would do anything to stand in its way, because I doubt they want this publicly dragged through Portugal's courts or FIFA's.
The alternative could even be a deal at €30m with Doyen giving us their share of the €10m extra back - it might sound odd, but odder deals get done all the time in business, not just in football.
Depends because only Sporting could sale the player and doyles is not authorized to be part of any deal and they breach their contract when the CEO was pretending he was from United which was ridiculous since they knew him, feck that guy's all the time with porto's chairman so must be really funny someone pretending he's from England speaking English when everybody knew the guy was Portuguese. Anyway Manchester United decided to negotiate directly with Sporting so they can get the player before all this goes to the court because if my memory not failing on me August is the month the courts are closed.
Can't we like buy the 75% from Doyen and than force Sporting to let Rojo play for us as we are then the majority owner and offer Sporting to buy-out their stake or keep hold of it and get 25% of any further profits if we'd sell him ?
No, part-ownerships aren't allowed in the Premier League.
If Sporting Lisbon can't afford to pay this third party company £3.5 million then they're not going to be able to pay £15 million or however much it is if this move falls through.
We need Rojo and Benatia. Rojo can play at LCB and left wing back. Perfect.
I think a side deal is the best way forward if Doyen and Sporting can calm the feck down and declare a truce. All this emotional he said-she said will screw them both imo because Rojo's value may never be higher it already is, especially if his strike continues. We could do a double deal for another of their players which undervalues Rojo and overstates another player's and in that way Doyen get their €15mio and Sporting get substantially more, we loan that player back to Sporting and everyone is happy. Borderline criminal but if no one was arrested for the Bebe deal I doubt anyone will ever be for such deals.
We should have bought Dier from them as well to smooth things over.
7.5m euros to Sporting (25% of 30m), 15m euros to Doyen (75% of 20m) and everyone should be happy, right?
Yep, I would think so. We just have to convince both sides that they can do this without losing face.
The normal method is to tell both sides that we believe their side were the ones acting perfectly correctly and tell them both how grateful we are that they are so reasonable and mature compared to the clowns on the other side. You'll appreciate that it's therefore important that no Sporting employees are around when we say this to Doyen and vice versa - no giving the game away to impostors or impersonators in other words. Delicate stuff.
I think by this point in the argument people have lost sight that Rojo is a solid player, but not worth even close to 20 Million Euros or more. He's a good LB, not as good a CB (even though he plays mostly as a center half for Sporting) but he makes a lot of careless tackles and has an unsettling tendency to get sent off in important matches.
We should use the money for a better defender and all the other players we clearly still need.
We should use the money for a better defender and all the other players we clearly still need.
Rojo and Benatia!
I've seen neither play more than twice.
I've seen neither play more than twice.
If you meet the buyout clause then you have permission to talk to the player and negotiate personal terms. The only reason that couldn't happen is if there were other terms associated with the buyout clause that were not met (clause active at a specific time for example:Reus).
However they wont since that the only way South American clubs can survive without having to sell their stars on peanuts year in year out.
I haven't seen Benatia play yet. Hell I hadn't even heard of him until this summer. Still want him here thoughRojo and Benatia!
I've seen neither play more than twice.
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