Manuel Ugarte | Romano - he’s signed | Awaiting Club announcement

Status
Not open for further replies.
Adam Wharton is the answer:

Amrabat and Ugarte = Counter attack football

Adam Wharton = both proactive and counter attack football.

Wharton can do what Ugarte is doing and more.

Wharton with Palace = Counter attack football. Wharton was ballwinner with 2 pacey and skillful wide players in Eze and Olise. Wharton will get the same role with United


Wharton in a more proactive, 433 duthc total football line up.

Bruno(8) - Wharton, CDM (6) - Mainoo.

Back up CM trio:

McTom/McAllisster - Collyer/Casemiro - Mount/Eriksen


I would be really satisfy with this CM trio :

Bruno - Wharton - Mainoo = this cm trio is up there with City and Arsenal CM trio
 
Trex said:
Who among our midfield options would leave to facilitate this arrival, I'm not so sure. Scott seems the most likely with Fulham's interest and I think that's a long shot.
Click to expand...
Maybe no-one, yet. If it's a loan with an obligation to buy, we could have Ugarte/Casemiro, Mainoo/McT/Eriksen, Bruno/Mount. After a few months of very little football I could see McT leaving in January, maybe Casemiro too. But if it's a loan with obligation that gets us round our immediate need to sell before we buy. We'd be spending more than we'd like on wages, but we have cut a lot of big spenders recently so could afford it if we had to.
 
LuckyScout78 said:
Adam Wharton is the answer:

Amrabat and Ugarte = Counter attack football

Adam Wharton = both proactive and counter attack football.

Wharton can do what Ugarte is doing and more.

Wharton with Palace = Counter attack football. Wharton was ballwinner with 2 pacey and skillful wide players in Eze and Olise. Wharton will get the same role with United


Wharton in a more proactive, 433 duthc total football line up.

Bruno(8) - Wharton, CDM (6) - Mainoo.

Back up CM trio:

McTom/McAllisster - Collyer/Casemiro - Mount/Eriksen


I would be really satisfy with this CM trio :

Bruno - Wharton - Mainoo = this cm trio is up there with City and Arsenal CM trio
Click to expand...
Yeh and palace won’t be selling him this summer so that’s pretty moot. They have sold Olise and Eze is dangerously close to going too. They had a great end to the season and a very good manager. I doubt they’re going to sell all of their good players immediately.
 
Loan with option to buy at 60m euro which is the price they signed him for, nothing more. We need to make a statement to the rest that we are not run by Woody anymore.
 
LuckyScout78 said:
Adam Wharton is the answer:

Amrabat and Ugarte = Counter attack football

Adam Wharton = both proactive and counter attack football.

Wharton can do what Ugarte is doing and more.

Wharton with Palace = Counter attack football. Wharton was ballwinner with 2 pacey and skillful wide players in Eze and Olise. Wharton will get the same role with United


Wharton in a more proactive, 433 duthc total football line up.

Bruno(8) - Wharton, CDM (6) - Mainoo.

Back up CM trio:

McTom/McAllisster - Collyer/Casemiro - Mount/Eriksen


I would be really satisfy with this CM trio :

Bruno - Wharton - Mainoo = this cm trio is up there with City and Arsenal CM trio
Click to expand...

Lucky, I seem to remember you rating Ugarte a couple of years back. Gone off him? I think Wharton has higher potential, but he’s not available now. I think there’s room for Ugarte first and Wharton next summer. Hopefully we’ll have gone to 4-3-3 by then…
 
macheda14 said:
Yeh and palace won’t be selling him this summer so that’s pretty moot. They have sold Olise and Eze is dangerously close to going too. They had a great end to the season and a very good manager. I doubt they’re going to sell all of their good players immediately.
Click to expand...
I also don't personally think Adam Wharton will be as good as people make out. Evan Ferguson was the hot £100m talent 12 months ago. His transfer market value would probably be half of that now, at best.

I also agree to an extent with @amolbhatia50k - I'd understand going big for a pure destroyer if we already had a world class squad like we did in 2008, and just needed a destroyer to help as the final piece of the puzzle to allow us to tighten things up in the big matches in the league/CL. But I don't see how going big in that area right now is worth it when there's still so much work we need to do on this squad.
 
devilish said:
I always said that his contract will spell trouble towards the end of the road. Casemiro himself said that the contract was just too good for him to refuse
Click to expand...

It was a disastrous signing, no matter how well he played in his first season (for 4 months). He had come off his peak at Madrid. To give him 4 years just showed Murtough and Arnold had been “Woodward trained.” I never want us making those kind of signings again. Awful.
 
LuckyScout78 said:
Adam Wharton is the answer:

Amrabat and Ugarte = Counter attack football

Adam Wharton = both proactive and counter attack football.

Wharton can do what Ugarte is doing and more.

Wharton with Palace = Counter attack football. Wharton was ballwinner with 2 pacey and skillful wide players in Eze and Olise. Wharton will get the same role with United


Wharton in a more proactive, 433 duthc total football line up.

Bruno(8) - Wharton, CDM (6) - Mainoo.

Back up CM trio:

McTom/McAllisster - Collyer/Casemiro - Mount/Eriksen


I would be really satisfy with this CM trio :

Bruno - Wharton - Mainoo = this cm trio is up there with City and Arsenal CM trio
Click to expand...

Considering Wharton has played 16 premier league games! maybe we should wait to see how he develops first.
 
LuckyScout78 said:
Adam Wharton is the answer:

Amrabat and Ugarte = Counter attack football

Adam Wharton = both proactive and counter attack football.

Wharton can do what Ugarte is doing and more.

Wharton with Palace = Counter attack football. Wharton was ballwinner with 2 pacey and skillful wide players in Eze and Olise. Wharton will get the same role with United


Wharton in a more proactive, 433 duthc total football line up.

Bruno(8) - Wharton, CDM (6) - Mainoo.

Back up CM trio:

McTom/McAllisster - Collyer/Casemiro - Mount/Eriksen


I would be really satisfy with this CM trio :

Bruno - Wharton - Mainoo = this cm trio is up there with City and Arsenal CM trio
Click to expand...
Seeing a lot of Wharton shouts which is a bit premature. Sure he has a potentially exciting profile but in half a season of PL football (Palace’s best half in years btw) his stats are comparable to James Garner, who isn’t good enough.
 
LuckyScout78 said:
Adam Wharton is the answer:

Amrabat and Ugarte = Counter attack football

Adam Wharton = both proactive and counter attack football.

Wharton can do what Ugarte is doing and more.

Wharton with Palace = Counter attack football. Wharton was ballwinner with 2 pacey and skillful wide players in Eze and Olise. Wharton will get the same role with United


Wharton in a more proactive, 433 duthc total football line up.

Bruno(8) - Wharton, CDM (6) - Mainoo.

Back up CM trio:

McTom/McAllisster - Collyer/Casemiro - Mount/Eriksen


I would be really satisfy with this CM trio :

Bruno - Wharton - Mainoo = this cm trio is up there with City and Arsenal CM trio
Click to expand...
Palace aren’t going to sell him after half a season especially after losing Olise

Wharton is a target for a different year
 
croadyman said:
I have no issue with obligation to buy
Click to expand...
Don't think utd do either, it's the obligatory fee that will be the sticking point.

We are talking about a guy with some of the highest stats in Europe for the defensive side of his game (tackles, interceptions, recoveries etc). With our porous midfield he's an absolute no brainer.
 
LuckyScout78 said:
Adam Wharton is the answer:

Amrabat and Ugarte = Counter attack football

Adam Wharton = both proactive and counter attack football.

Wharton can do what Ugarte is doing and more.

Wharton with Palace = Counter attack football. Wharton was ballwinner with 2 pacey and skillful wide players in Eze and Olise. Wharton will get the same role with United


Wharton in a more proactive, 433 duthc total football line up.

Bruno(8) - Wharton, CDM (6) - Mainoo.

Back up CM trio:

McTom/McAllisster - Collyer/Casemiro - Mount/Eriksen


I would be really satisfy with this CM trio :

Bruno - Wharton - Mainoo = this cm trio is up there with City and Arsenal CM trio
Click to expand...

You don't seem to be able comprehend that Wharton is not available this summer.
 
LuckyScout78 said:
Adam Wharton is the answer:

Amrabat and Ugarte = Counter attack football

Adam Wharton = both proactive and counter attack football.

Wharton can do what Ugarte is doing and more.

Wharton with Palace = Counter attack football. Wharton was ballwinner with 2 pacey and skillful wide players in Eze and Olise. Wharton will get the same role with United


Wharton in a more proactive, 433 duthc total football line up.

Bruno(8) - Wharton, CDM (6) - Mainoo.

Back up CM trio:

McTom/McAllisster - Collyer/Casemiro - Mount/Eriksen


I would be really satisfy with this CM trio :

Bruno - Wharton - Mainoo = this cm trio is up there with City and Arsenal CM trio
Click to expand...

If we had the money for Wharton the Ugarte deal wouldnt be taking so long as we'd have paid what PSG wanted.

Clearly we missed our chance to get him before he costs a lot and Palace have already lost Olise so will be more determined to keep him
 
golden_blunder said:
Palace aren’t going to sell him after half a season especially after losing Olise

Wharton is a target for a different year
Click to expand...

Adding to the fact half of what he said is really wrong - He cannot do "Everything" Ugarte can do, they are very different players and to say Ugarte only suits counter attacking football is insane. He is a top ball winner and covers a lot of ground and will make the easy simple pass to someone better suited to find the next pass to build the attack, he can easily suit a transitional style or even a more possession based style. Wharton is a deep lying playmaker, a conductor - He doesn't have half the ability to cover as much ground or win the ball back but is mature beyond his years with his positioning and reading of the game and finding the right pass, they are very different players.

Slightly wider point but I hate what football manager has done with the "No.6" or "No.8", people get confused and think a "No.6" has to be a ball winner, it's not the case at all, it simple describes where in the pitch they occupy - Very different things can be asked from all of these positions and with our #10 staying up high it creates this vacuum we saw last season between the 6, 8 and 10. If Mainoo is the 8 he can get up and down but he can't do it on his own hence why our midfield was so exposed.

Someone like Ugarte suits the profile of the team far better despite me believe Wharton has a higher ceiling so could be crucial to us playing better football, as well as another centre back who is able to play a higher line and Shaw staying fit
 
Brunsama said:
Seeing a lot of Wharton shouts which is a bit premature. Sure he has a potentially exciting profile but in half a season of PL football (Palace’s best half in years btw) his stats are comparable to James Garner, who isn’t good enough.
Click to expand...

When a player is 23 in Garner's case, or 20 in Wharton's case those stats are more than good enough. Mainoo's stats arent amazing either. But players are expected to improve most seasons especially when they are particularly young and so you dont expect them to be the finished article

However if they had the same stats or worse as is the case from 27 year old McTominay or 27 year old Amrabat thats when they arent good enough.
 
LuckyScout78 said:
Adam Wharton is the answer:

Amrabat and Ugarte = Counter attack football

Adam Wharton = both proactive and counter attack football.

Wharton can do what Ugarte is doing and more.

Wharton with Palace = Counter attack football. Wharton was ballwinner with 2 pacey and skillful wide players in Eze and Olise. Wharton will get the same role with United


Wharton in a more proactive, 433 duthc total football line up.

Bruno(8) - Wharton, CDM (6) - Mainoo.

Back up CM trio:

McTom/McAllisster - Collyer/Casemiro - Mount/Eriksen


I would be really satisfy with this CM trio :

Bruno - Wharton - Mainoo = this cm trio is up there with City and Arsenal CM trio
Click to expand...
Wharton is going nowhere
 
Ish said:
Yep, I've seen Caf's favorite scout mention Wharton in a few different places this window. But point remains, unless you offer ridiculous money, Palace won't sell.
Click to expand...

I think Wharton will be a top target for United and possibly other PL sides as well in 2025 or 2026, but not this summer. And it will take huge money to get him. Maybe 100+ million.
 
AngeloHenriquez said:
Adding to the fact half of what he said is really wrong - He cannot do "Everything" Ugarte can do, they are very different players and to say Ugarte only suits counter attacking football is insane. He is a top ball winner and covers a lot of ground and will make the easy simple pass to someone better suited to find the next pass to build the attack, he can easily suit a transitional style or even a more possession based style. Wharton is a deep lying playmaker, a conductor - He doesn't have half the ability to cover as much ground or win the ball back but is mature beyond his years with his positioning and reading of the game and finding the right pass, they are very different players.

Slightly wider point but I hate what football manager has done with the "No.6" or "No.8", people get confused and think a "No.6" has to be a ball winner, it's not the case at all, it simple describes where in the pitch they occupy - Very different things can be asked from all of these positions and with our #10 staying up high it creates this vacuum we saw last season between the 6, 8 and 10. If Mainoo is the 8 he can get up and down but he can't do it on his own hence why our midfield was so exposed.

Someone like Ugarte suits the profile of the team far better despite me believe Wharton has a higher ceiling so could be crucial to us playing better football, as well as another centre back who is able to play a higher line and Shaw staying fit
Click to expand...
Wharton for me is akin to Carrick and Ugarte akin to someone like Makalele
 
There isn't a player out there that suits our needs. We need Mainoo to develop either defensively or in his passing metrics. Right now I'd put my money on his passing developing more than the defensive side of his game, so sign a destroyer and see how we get on with Mainoo charged with dictating games. Ugarte probably meets that requirement so we just need to ship someone out.
 
golden_blunder said:
Wharton for me is akin to Carrick and Ugarte akin to someone like Makalele
Click to expand...
If Ugarte was even remotely similar to Makelele, I think there would be way more people wanting the transfer. They are not similar, in my opinion.

Also, all of you actually replying to LuckyScout laughoutloud.
 
jeepers said:
If Ugarte was even remotely similar to Makelele, I think there would be way more people wanting the transfer. They are not similar, in my opinion.

Also, all of you actually replying to LuckyScout laughoutloud.
Click to expand...
If there's any similarity it's Kante.. Ball winner that presses out of the deeper midfield position up towards the opponents half, nut is extremely limited in any attacking output. The main way they progress the ball is by dribbling rather than any sort of line splitting passes.
 
golden_blunder said:
Wharton for me is akin to Carrick and Ugarte akin to someone like Makalele
Click to expand...
Agree completely
jeepers said:
If Ugarte was even remotely similar to Makelele, I think there would be way more people wanting the transfer. They are not similar, in my opinion.

Also, all of you actually replying to LuckyScout laughoutloud.
Click to expand...
Ugarte is very similar stylistically, neither of us claim him to be of that level of ability but the his traits are similar.
 
jeepers said:
If Ugarte was even remotely similar to Makelele, I think there would be way more people wanting the transfer. They are not similar, in my opinion.

Also, all of you actually replying to LuckyScout laughoutloud.
Click to expand...
a rabid dog is probably a better comparison
 
Rojofiam said:
I think Wharton will be a top target for United and possibly other PL sides as well in 2025 or 2026, but not this summer. And it will take huge money to get him. Maybe 100+ million.
Click to expand...
Probably better to just try and get the next player of that profile then before they move to a PL club, rather than pay £100m+ for one
 


Ugarte last season compared to Casemiro last season and the season before.

Casemiro better in the air and more progressive/ambitious with his passing, Ugarte better at winning the ball on the ground and keeping possession.
 
Crimson King said:
Probably better to just try and get the next player of that profile then before they move to a PL club, rather than pay £100m+ for one
Click to expand...

It would be great to find world class profiles and develop them into great players from time to time, but a big club aspiring to compete for the CL and PL every season cannot just rely on this sort of transfer policy. From time to time, we will need to spend big, especially when we haven't built a great squad yet. If the club feels like breaking our transfer record for Wharton is what we need to do, then I'm on board with it. If they find an unknown 20 year old for cheaper, that they think can become one of the best midfielders in the world within a few years' time, and go with him, I'm also on board with it.

So yeah, whilst I would love signing unknown youngsters and turning them into great players, the reality is that you cannot just rely on the Garnacho, Obi-Martin, Anselmino, etc. type of deals, occasionally you need to splash the cash, especially when a generational talent like Bellingham, Yoro, etc. appears on the market and you have the opportunity to get them. What Chelsea are doing right now can be great, especially financially in the long-term, but I feel like they're overdoing it and as a result they won't be successful until they learn how to build a squad.

But these 2 types of transfers shouldn't cover your whole recruitment policy either:

-You need to find those undervalued players in their 20s (who are ready to make an immediate impact) for cheap from time to time as well, like Wijnaldum for Liverpool, or Tomiyasu for Arsenal, Akanji for City, just to list a few examples.

-Some free transfers from time to time if it's the right opportunity

Etc.

Our transfer policy needs to really just be the optimal mixture of all sorts of deals. So yeah, I wouldn't mind a Wharton type signing, but it isn't the only option. We can solve a problem in many ways.
 
Last edited:
The thing with Wharton is that i believe its best to go for him this season whilst he is 50/50 unproven in the PL.

If we go for him next year and he has a good season then he will be an 80 mil + prospect for sure, id argue he'd cost as much as Rice.

I think Wharton is better than Zubimendi & signing Wharton and Ugarte gives us two different types of midfielders.

Both have their uses. If Ugarte is on a loan to buy deal as has been on said by some links - then buying Ugarte next season whilst buying Wharton this season is probably the best bit of business we can do.

Ugarte (loan to buy next year)
Wharton 50 m (double what was payed by CP)
Brantwaithe 60m (same price as yoro)
Gutierrez from Girona for LB.

I think this is the best transfer window we can do.

140 mil approx left of transfer money but will defintely need some sales of players like Casemiro, Lindelof and even loans for Sancho & antony etc
 
ACoolFan said:
The thing with Wharton is that i believe its best to go for him this season whilst he is 50/50 unproven in the PL.

If we go for him next year and he has a good season then he will be an 80 mil + prospect for sure, id argue he'd cost as much as Rice.

I think Wharton is better than Zubimendi & signing Wharton and Ugarte gives us two different types of midfielders.

Both have their uses. If Ugarte is on a loan to buy deal as has been on said by some links - then buying Ugarte next season whilst buying Wharton this season is probably the best bit of business we can do.

Ugarte (loan to buy next year)
Wharton 50 m (double what was payed by CP)
Brantwaithe 60m (same price as yoro)
Gutierrez from Girona for LB.

I think this is the best transfer window we can do.

140 mil approx left of transfer money but will defintely need some sales of players like Casemiro, Lindelof and even loans for Sancho & antony etc
Click to expand...
These are my thoughts entirely. Fingers crossed.
 
I thought I read somewhere that Wharton is highly regarded at City so I can see him going there, eventually.
 
sullydnl said:


Ugarte last season compared to Casemiro last season and the season before.

Casemiro better in the air and more progressive/ambitious with his passing, Ugarte better at winning the ball on the ground and keeping possession.
Click to expand...

So Ugarte would be better in a team that’s trying to implement a possession based style. His passings a lot more simple isn’t it. Casemiro tries the more risky passes which are great when he pulls it off.
 
Rojofiam said:
It would be great to find world class profiles and develop them into great players from time to time, but a big club aspiring to compete for the CL and PL every season cannot just rely on this sort of transfer policy. From time to time, we will need to spend big, especially when we haven't built a great squad yet. If the club feels like breaking our transfer record for Wharton is what we need to do, then I'm on board with it. If they find an unknown 20 year old for cheaper, that they think can become one of the best midfielders in the world within a few years' time, and go with him, I'm also on board with it.

So yeah, whilst I would love signing unknown youngsters and turning them into great players, the reality is that you cannot just rely on the Garnacho, Obi-Martin, Anselmino, etc. type of deals, occasionally you need to splash the cash, especially when a generational talent like Bellingham, Yoro, etc. appears on the market and you have the opportunity to get them. What Chelsea are doing right now can be great, especially financially in the long-term, but I feel like they're overdoing it and as a result they won't be successful until they learn how to build a squad.

But these 2 types of transfers shouldn't cover your whole recruitment policy either:

-You need to find those undervalued players in their 20s (who are ready to make an immediate impact) for cheap from time to time as well, like Wijnaldum for Liverpool, or Tomiyasu for Arsenal, Akanji for City, just to list a few examples.

-Some free transfers from time to time if it's the right opportunity

Etc.

Our transfer policy needs to really just be the optimal mixture of all sorts of deals. So yeah, I wouldn't mind a Wharton type signing, but it isn't the only option. We can solve a problem in many ways.
Click to expand...
Chelsea are definitely overdoing it. There's no guarantee any of those players will rise in value, and if they do clubs may just not be able to afford them. We're seeing that more and more, especially because of the financial regulations.

I don't disagree that you need a varied transfer strategy. Arsenal decided to spend big on Rice as they were a title challenger already. Liverpool did the same with VvD and Allison (and actually won the league, unlike Arsenal). You need to get to that point first though, because at that point there are only a few players that can genuinely improve on what you have in each position.

Also, I'm very wary of ever spending £100m or more on a player. Even £80m is risky. More often than not these transfers don't work out for the buying club. Saying Wharton will be worth that much in a few years is also premature. He's only played about 16 PL games so far.
 
DJ_21 said:
So Ugarte would be better in a team that’s trying to implement a possession based style. His passings a lot more simple isn’t it. Casemiro tries the more risky passes which are great when he pulls it off.
Click to expand...
Yes that he's better suited than Casemiro to possession football, no in the sense that he's being binned from a side who play heavy possession football because he's not good enough with it to work in such an environment.

Seems like a midfielder who ticks a few boxes but also comes with his own flaws. Ideal for me would be that he's signed alongside a more progressive middle third passer.
 
LuckyScout78 said:
Adam Wharton is the answer:

Amrabat and Ugarte = Counter attack football

Adam Wharton = both proactive and counter attack football.

Wharton can do what Ugarte is doing and more.

Wharton with Palace = Counter attack football. Wharton was ballwinner with 2 pacey and skillful wide players in Eze and Olise. Wharton will get the same role with United


Wharton in a more proactive, 433 duthc total football line up.

Bruno(8) - Wharton, CDM (6) - Mainoo.

Back up CM trio:

McTom/McAllisster - Collyer/Casemiro - Mount/Eriksen


I would be really satisfy with this CM trio :

Bruno - Wharton - Mainoo = this cm trio is up there with City and Arsenal CM trio
Click to expand...

It’s obvious you’re a big fan of him as this is the 3rd or 4th similar post I’ve seen you do about him. Most of us are fans of him too. He’s looked great for Palace.

But you’re kicking a dead horse. Palace Will understandably demand £100m because they don’t need to sell and they probably see the prospect he is.
He’s just joined them less than a year ago. He ain’t moving.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.