Manuel Ugarte | Romano - he’s signed | Awaiting Club announcement

[LawCharltonBest]

Yeh and palace won’t be selling him this summer so that’s pretty moot. They have sold Olise and Eze is dangerously close to going too. They had a great end to the season and a very good manager. I doubt they’re going to sell all of their good players immediately.

I also don't personally think Adam Wharton will be as good as people make out. Evan Ferguson was the hot £100m talent 12 months ago. His transfer market value would probably be half of that now, at best.

I also agree to an extent with @amolbhatia50k - I'd understand going big for a pure destroyer if we already had a world class squad like we did in 2008, and just needed a destroyer to help as the final piece of the puzzle to allow us to tighten things up in the big matches in the league/CL. But I don't see how going big in that area right now is worth it when there's still so much work we need to do on this squad.

 

[In Absentia]

I always said that his contract will spell trouble towards the end of the road. Casemiro himself said that the contract was just too good for him to refuse

It was a disastrous signing, no matter how well he played in his first season (for 4 months). He had come off his peak at Madrid. To give him 4 years just showed Murtough and Arnold had been “Woodward trained.” I never want us making those kind of signings again. Awful.

 

[RuudTom83]

Adam Wharton is the answer:

Amrabat and Ugarte = Counter attack football

Adam Wharton = both proactive and counter attack football.

Wharton can do what Ugarte is doing and more.

Wharton with Palace = Counter attack football. Wharton was ballwinner with 2 pacey and skillful wide players in Eze and Olise. Wharton will get the same role with United


Wharton in a more proactive, 433 duthc total football line up.

Bruno(8) - Wharton, CDM (6) - Mainoo.

Back up CM trio:

McTom/McAllisster - Collyer/Casemiro - Mount/Eriksen


I would be really satisfy with this CM trio :

Bruno - Wharton - Mainoo = this cm trio is up there with City and Arsenal CM trio

Considering Wharton has played 16 premier league games! maybe we should wait to see how he develops first.

 

[Brunsama]

Adam Wharton is the answer:

Amrabat and Ugarte = Counter attack football

Adam Wharton = both proactive and counter attack football.

Wharton can do what Ugarte is doing and more.

Wharton with Palace = Counter attack football. Wharton was ballwinner with 2 pacey and skillful wide players in Eze and Olise. Wharton will get the same role with United


Wharton in a more proactive, 433 duthc total football line up.

Bruno(8) - Wharton, CDM (6) - Mainoo.

Back up CM trio:

McTom/McAllisster - Collyer/Casemiro - Mount/Eriksen


I would be really satisfy with this CM trio :

Bruno - Wharton - Mainoo = this cm trio is up there with City and Arsenal CM trio

Seeing a lot of Wharton shouts which is a bit premature. Sure he has a potentially exciting profile but in half a season of PL football (Palace’s best half in years btw) his stats are comparable to James Garner, who isn’t good enough.

 

[croadyman]

Loan with option to buy at 60m euro which is the price they signed him for, nothing more. We need to make a statement to the rest that we are not run by Woody anymore.

I have no issue with obligation to buy

 

[golden_blunder]

Adam Wharton is the answer:

Amrabat and Ugarte = Counter attack football

Adam Wharton = both proactive and counter attack football.

Wharton can do what Ugarte is doing and more.

Wharton with Palace = Counter attack football. Wharton was ballwinner with 2 pacey and skillful wide players in Eze and Olise. Wharton will get the same role with United


Wharton in a more proactive, 433 duthc total football line up.

Bruno(8) - Wharton, CDM (6) - Mainoo.

Back up CM trio:

McTom/McAllisster - Collyer/Casemiro - Mount/Eriksen


I would be really satisfy with this CM trio :

Bruno - Wharton - Mainoo = this cm trio is up there with City and Arsenal CM trio

Palace aren’t going to sell him after half a season especially after losing Olise

Wharton is a target for a different year

 

[dinostar77]

I have no issue with obligation to buy

Don't think utd do either, it's the obligatory fee that will be the sticking point.

We are talking about a guy with some of the highest stats in Europe for the defensive side of his game (tackles, interceptions, recoveries etc). With our porous midfield he's an absolute no brainer.

 

[Rojofiam]

Adam Wharton is the answer:

Amrabat and Ugarte = Counter attack football

Adam Wharton = both proactive and counter attack football.

Wharton can do what Ugarte is doing and more.

Wharton with Palace = Counter attack football. Wharton was ballwinner with 2 pacey and skillful wide players in Eze and Olise. Wharton will get the same role with United


Wharton in a more proactive, 433 duthc total football line up.

Bruno(8) - Wharton, CDM (6) - Mainoo.

Back up CM trio:

McTom/McAllisster - Collyer/Casemiro - Mount/Eriksen


I would be really satisfy with this CM trio :

Bruno - Wharton - Mainoo = this cm trio is up there with City and Arsenal CM trio

You don't seem to be able comprehend that Wharton is not available this summer.

 

[Ekeke]

Adam Wharton is the answer:

Amrabat and Ugarte = Counter attack football

Adam Wharton = both proactive and counter attack football.

Wharton can do what Ugarte is doing and more.

Wharton with Palace = Counter attack football. Wharton was ballwinner with 2 pacey and skillful wide players in Eze and Olise. Wharton will get the same role with United


Wharton in a more proactive, 433 duthc total football line up.

Bruno(8) - Wharton, CDM (6) - Mainoo.

Back up CM trio:

McTom/McAllisster - Collyer/Casemiro - Mount/Eriksen


I would be really satisfy with this CM trio :

Bruno - Wharton - Mainoo = this cm trio is up there with City and Arsenal CM trio

If we had the money for Wharton the Ugarte deal wouldnt be taking so long as we'd have paid what PSG wanted.

Clearly we missed our chance to get him before he costs a lot and Palace have already lost Olise so will be more determined to keep him

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

Palace aren’t going to sell him after half a season especially after losing Olise

Wharton is a target for a different year

Adding to the fact half of what he said is really wrong - He cannot do "Everything" Ugarte can do, they are very different players and to say Ugarte only suits counter attacking football is insane. He is a top ball winner and covers a lot of ground and will make the easy simple pass to someone better suited to find the next pass to build the attack, he can easily suit a transitional style or even a more possession based style. Wharton is a deep lying playmaker, a conductor - He doesn't have half the ability to cover as much ground or win the ball back but is mature beyond his years with his positioning and reading of the game and finding the right pass, they are very different players.

Slightly wider point but I hate what football manager has done with the "No.6" or "No.8", people get confused and think a "No.6" has to be a ball winner, it's not the case at all, it simple describes where in the pitch they occupy - Very different things can be asked from all of these positions and with our #10 staying up high it creates this vacuum we saw last season between the 6, 8 and 10. If Mainoo is the 8 he can get up and down but he can't do it on his own hence why our midfield was so exposed.

Someone like Ugarte suits the profile of the team far better despite me believe Wharton has a higher ceiling so could be crucial to us playing better football, as well as another centre back who is able to play a higher line and Shaw staying fit

 

[Ekeke]

Seeing a lot of Wharton shouts which is a bit premature. Sure he has a potentially exciting profile but in half a season of PL football (Palace’s best half in years btw) his stats are comparable to James Garner, who isn’t good enough.

When a player is 23 in Garner's case, or 20 in Wharton's case those stats are more than good enough. Mainoo's stats arent amazing either. But players are expected to improve most seasons especially when they are particularly young and so you dont expect them to be the finished article

However if they had the same stats or worse as is the case from 27 year old McTominay or 27 year old Amrabat thats when they arent good enough.

 

[sebsheep]

You don't seem to be able comprehend that Wharton is not available this summer.

LuckyScout doesn't care about such trivial things

 

[Bondi77]

I have no issue with obligation to buy

Have you been asked for a contribution?

 

[Rojofiam]

LuckyScout doesn't care about such trivial things

 

[Ish]

You don't seem to be able comprehend that Wharton is not available this summer.

Yep, I've seen Caf's favorite scout mention Wharton in a few different places this window. But point remains, unless you offer ridiculous money, Palace won't sell.

 

[Red00012]

Adam Wharton is the answer:

Amrabat and Ugarte = Counter attack football

Adam Wharton = both proactive and counter attack football.

Wharton can do what Ugarte is doing and more.

Wharton with Palace = Counter attack football. Wharton was ballwinner with 2 pacey and skillful wide players in Eze and Olise. Wharton will get the same role with United


Wharton in a more proactive, 433 duthc total football line up.

Bruno(8) - Wharton, CDM (6) - Mainoo.

Back up CM trio:

McTom/McAllisster - Collyer/Casemiro - Mount/Eriksen


I would be really satisfy with this CM trio :

Bruno - Wharton - Mainoo = this cm trio is up there with City and Arsenal CM trio

Wharton is going nowhere

 

[Rojofiam]

Yep, I've seen Caf's favorite scout mention Wharton in a few different places this window. But point remains, unless you offer ridiculous money, Palace won't sell.

I think Wharton will be a top target for United and possibly other PL sides as well in 2025 or 2026, but not this summer. And it will take huge money to get him. Maybe 100+ million.

 

[golden_blunder]

Adding to the fact half of what he said is really wrong - He cannot do "Everything" Ugarte can do, they are very different players and to say Ugarte only suits counter attacking football is insane. He is a top ball winner and covers a lot of ground and will make the easy simple pass to someone better suited to find the next pass to build the attack, he can easily suit a transitional style or even a more possession based style. Wharton is a deep lying playmaker, a conductor - He doesn't have half the ability to cover as much ground or win the ball back but is mature beyond his years with his positioning and reading of the game and finding the right pass, they are very different players.

Slightly wider point but I hate what football manager has done with the "No.6" or "No.8", people get confused and think a "No.6" has to be a ball winner, it's not the case at all, it simple describes where in the pitch they occupy - Very different things can be asked from all of these positions and with our #10 staying up high it creates this vacuum we saw last season between the 6, 8 and 10. If Mainoo is the 8 he can get up and down but he can't do it on his own hence why our midfield was so exposed.

Someone like Ugarte suits the profile of the team far better despite me believe Wharton has a higher ceiling so could be crucial to us playing better football, as well as another centre back who is able to play a higher line and Shaw staying fit

Wharton for me is akin to Carrick and Ugarte akin to someone like Makalele

 

[P-Nut]

There isn't a player out there that suits our needs. We need Mainoo to develop either defensively or in his passing metrics. Right now I'd put my money on his passing developing more than the defensive side of his game, so sign a destroyer and see how we get on with Mainoo charged with dictating games. Ugarte probably meets that requirement so we just need to ship someone out.

 

[jeepers]

Wharton for me is akin to Carrick and Ugarte akin to someone like Makalele

If Ugarte was even remotely similar to Makelele, I think there would be way more people wanting the transfer. They are not similar, in my opinion.

Also, all of you actually replying to LuckyScout laughoutloud.

 

[P-Nut]

If Ugarte was even remotely similar to Makelele, I think there would be way more people wanting the transfer. They are not similar, in my opinion.

Also, all of you actually replying to LuckyScout laughoutloud.

If there's any similarity it's Kante.. Ball winner that presses out of the deeper midfield position up towards the opponents half, nut is extremely limited in any attacking output. The main way they progress the ball is by dribbling rather than any sort of line splitting passes.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

Wharton for me is akin to Carrick and Ugarte akin to someone like Makalele

Agree completely

If Ugarte was even remotely similar to Makelele, I think there would be way more people wanting the transfer. They are not similar, in my opinion.

Also, all of you actually replying to LuckyScout laughoutloud.

Ugarte is very similar stylistically, neither of us claim him to be of that level of ability but the his traits are similar.

 

[golden_blunder]

If Ugarte was even remotely similar to Makelele, I think there would be way more people wanting the transfer. They are not similar, in my opinion.

Also, all of you actually replying to LuckyScout laughoutloud.

a rabid dog is probably a better comparison

 

[Crimson King]

I think Wharton will be a top target for United and possibly other PL sides as well in 2025 or 2026, but not this summer. And it will take huge money to get him. Maybe 100+ million.

Probably better to just try and get the next player of that profile then before they move to a PL club, rather than pay £100m+ for one

 

[sullydnl]

Ugarte last season compared to Casemiro last season and the season before.

Casemiro better in the air and more progressive/ambitious with his passing, Ugarte better at winning the ball on the ground and keeping possession.

 

[Rojofiam]

Probably better to just try and get the next player of that profile then before they move to a PL club, rather than pay £100m+ for one

It would be great to find world class profiles and develop them into great players from time to time, but a big club aspiring to compete for the CL and PL every season cannot just rely on this sort of transfer policy. From time to time, we will need to spend big, especially when we haven't built a great squad yet. If the club feels like breaking our transfer record for Wharton is what we need to do, then I'm on board with it. If they find an unknown 20 year old for cheaper, that they think can become one of the best midfielders in the world within a few years' time, and go with him, I'm also on board with it.

So yeah, whilst I would love signing unknown youngsters and turning them into great players, the reality is that you cannot just rely on the Garnacho, Obi-Martin, Anselmino, etc. type of deals, occasionally you need to splash the cash, especially when a generational talent like Bellingham, Yoro, etc. appears on the market and you have the opportunity to get them. What Chelsea are doing right now can be great, especially financially in the long-term, but I feel like they're overdoing it and as a result they won't be successful until they learn how to build a squad.

But these 2 types of transfers shouldn't cover your whole recruitment policy either:

-You need to find those undervalued players in their 20s (who are ready to make an immediate impact) for cheap from time to time as well, like Wijnaldum for Liverpool, or Tomiyasu for Arsenal, Akanji for City, just to list a few examples.

-Some free transfers from time to time if it's the right opportunity

Etc.

Our transfer policy needs to really just be the optimal mixture of all sorts of deals. So yeah, I wouldn't mind a Wharton type signing, but it isn't the only option. We can solve a problem in many ways.

 

[ACoolFan]

The thing with Wharton is that i believe its best to go for him this season whilst he is 50/50 unproven in the PL.

If we go for him next year and he has a good season then he will be an 80 mil + prospect for sure, id argue he'd cost as much as Rice.

I think Wharton is better than Zubimendi & signing Wharton and Ugarte gives us two different types of midfielders.

Both have their uses. If Ugarte is on a loan to buy deal as has been on said by some links - then buying Ugarte next season whilst buying Wharton this season is probably the best bit of business we can do.

Ugarte (loan to buy next year)
Wharton 50 m (double what was payed by CP)
Brantwaithe 60m (same price as yoro)
Gutierrez from Girona for LB.

I think this is the best transfer window we can do.

140 mil approx left of transfer money but will defintely need some sales of players like Casemiro, Lindelof and even loans for Sancho & antony etc

 

[Michael T]

The thing with Wharton is that i believe its best to go for him this season whilst he is 50/50 unproven in the PL.

If we go for him next year and he has a good season then he will be an 80 mil + prospect for sure, id argue he'd cost as much as Rice.

I think Wharton is better than Zubimendi & signing Wharton and Ugarte gives us two different types of midfielders.

Both have their uses. If Ugarte is on a loan to buy deal as has been on said by some links - then buying Ugarte next season whilst buying Wharton this season is probably the best bit of business we can do.

Ugarte (loan to buy next year)
Wharton 50 m (double what was payed by CP)
Brantwaithe 60m (same price as yoro)
Gutierrez from Girona for LB.

I think this is the best transfer window we can do.

140 mil approx left of transfer money but will defintely need some sales of players like Casemiro, Lindelof and even loans for Sancho & antony etc

These are my thoughts entirely. Fingers crossed.

 

[Judas]

The Wharton links are purely fan fiction, why do I keep seeing him being mentioned?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I thought I read somewhere that Wharton is highly regarded at City so I can see him going there, eventually.

 

[DJ_21]

Ugarte last season compared to Casemiro last season and the season before.

Casemiro better in the air and more progressive/ambitious with his passing, Ugarte better at winning the ball on the ground and keeping possession.

So Ugarte would be better in a team that’s trying to implement a possession based style. His passings a lot more simple isn’t it. Casemiro tries the more risky passes which are great when he pulls it off.

 

[Remember the geese]

I thought I read somewhere that Wharton is highly regarded at City so I can see him going there, eventually.

Not if we are interested I assume.

 

[Crimson King]

It would be great to find world class profiles and develop them into great players from time to time, but a big club aspiring to compete for the CL and PL every season cannot just rely on this sort of transfer policy. From time to time, we will need to spend big, especially when we haven't built a great squad yet. If the club feels like breaking our transfer record for Wharton is what we need to do, then I'm on board with it. If they find an unknown 20 year old for cheaper, that they think can become one of the best midfielders in the world within a few years' time, and go with him, I'm also on board with it.

So yeah, whilst I would love signing unknown youngsters and turning them into great players, the reality is that you cannot just rely on the Garnacho, Obi-Martin, Anselmino, etc. type of deals, occasionally you need to splash the cash, especially when a generational talent like Bellingham, Yoro, etc. appears on the market and you have the opportunity to get them. What Chelsea are doing right now can be great, especially financially in the long-term, but I feel like they're overdoing it and as a result they won't be successful until they learn how to build a squad.

But these 2 types of transfers shouldn't cover your whole recruitment policy either:

-You need to find those undervalued players in their 20s (who are ready to make an immediate impact) for cheap from time to time as well, like Wijnaldum for Liverpool, or Tomiyasu for Arsenal, Akanji for City, just to list a few examples.

-Some free transfers from time to time if it's the right opportunity

Etc.

Our transfer policy needs to really just be the optimal mixture of all sorts of deals. So yeah, I wouldn't mind a Wharton type signing, but it isn't the only option. We can solve a problem in many ways.

Chelsea are definitely overdoing it. There's no guarantee any of those players will rise in value, and if they do clubs may just not be able to afford them. We're seeing that more and more, especially because of the financial regulations.

I don't disagree that you need a varied transfer strategy. Arsenal decided to spend big on Rice as they were a title challenger already. Liverpool did the same with VvD and Allison (and actually won the league, unlike Arsenal). You need to get to that point first though, because at that point there are only a few players that can genuinely improve on what you have in each position.

Also, I'm very wary of ever spending £100m or more on a player. Even £80m is risky. More often than not these transfers don't work out for the buying club. Saying Wharton will be worth that much in a few years is also premature. He's only played about 16 PL games so far.

 

[DWelbz19]

So Ugarte would be better in a team that’s trying to implement a possession based style. His passings a lot more simple isn’t it. Casemiro tries the more risky passes which are great when he pulls it off.

Yes that he's better suited than Casemiro to possession football, no in the sense that he's being binned from a side who play heavy possession football because he's not good enough with it to work in such an environment.

Seems like a midfielder who ticks a few boxes but also comes with his own flaws. Ideal for me would be that he's signed alongside a more progressive middle third passer.

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

Adam Wharton is the answer:

Amrabat and Ugarte = Counter attack football

Adam Wharton = both proactive and counter attack football.

Wharton can do what Ugarte is doing and more.

Wharton with Palace = Counter attack football. Wharton was ballwinner with 2 pacey and skillful wide players in Eze and Olise. Wharton will get the same role with United


Wharton in a more proactive, 433 duthc total football line up.

Bruno(8) - Wharton, CDM (6) - Mainoo.

Back up CM trio:

McTom/McAllisster - Collyer/Casemiro - Mount/Eriksen


I would be really satisfy with this CM trio :

Bruno - Wharton - Mainoo = this cm trio is up there with City and Arsenal CM trio

It’s obvious you’re a big fan of him as this is the 3rd or 4th similar post I’ve seen you do about him. Most of us are fans of him too. He’s looked great for Palace.

But you’re kicking a dead horse. Palace Will understandably demand £100m because they don’t need to sell and they probably see the prospect he is.
He’s just joined them less than a year ago. He ain’t moving.

 

[Rojofiam]

Chelsea are definitely overdoing it. There's no guarantee any of those players will rise in value, and if they do clubs may just not be able to afford them. We're seeing that more and more, especially because of the financial regulations.

I don't disagree that you need a varied transfer strategy. Arsenal decided to spend big on Rice as they were a title challenger already. Liverpool did the same with VvD and Allison (and actually won the league, unlike Arsenal). You need to get to that point first though, because at that point there are only a few players that can genuinely improve on what you have in each position.

Also, I'm very wary of ever spending £100m or more on a player. Even £80m is risky. More often than not these transfers don't work out for the buying club. Saying Wharton will be worth that much in a few years is also premature. He's only played about 16 PL games so far.

I agree.

I'd rather see us mostly go with the undervalued good players approach for now, until we have a stronger squad, but I accept that Yoro was seen as a best itw potential youngster and we made an exception for him.

De Ligt can arguably be considered an undervalued signing for around 35-42m despite being a high profile player.

Maybe Ugarte as well if we can get him for around 35m, even though I don't think he's a player we should be going for as a priority signing.

And looking at the current squad, I think we have a good number of players that were free or very good value deals anyway:
-Fernandes only cost 47m
-Garnacho cost 420k
-Mainoo, McTominay and Rashford came from the academy
-Zirkzee for 35m could very well prove to be an undervalued deal in the long-term
-Dalot cost 18m
-Shaw was big money but 10 years ago, so that 27m fee looks like peanuts now
-Malacia cost 13m
-Amad's base fee without add-ons was around 20m if I recall correctly, if he proves himself this season that'll have been worth it even with add-ons
-Martínez at 57m will also arguably go down as one of the best transfers we've ever made, but he needs to be a great player for us for many more years for that to become the general consensus IMO

 

[Ish]

I think Wharton will be a top target for United and possibly other PL sides as well in 2025 or 2026, but not this summer. And it will take huge money to get him. Maybe 100+ million.

Yeah, you'd need to offer crazy money right now, to even get Palace to the table, & if he continues his trajectory and development, 80-100m doesn't seem that far-fetched at all. Young, English, very rare, but important attributes for a midfielder etc.

Will be interesting to see if he/Palace can maintain their excellent form since Glasner took over, considering they've lost Olise etc.

 

[Rojofiam]

Yeah, you'd need to offer crazy money right now, to even get Palace to the table, & if he continues his trajectory and development, 80-100m doesn't seem that far-fetched at all. Young, English, very rare, but important attributes for a midfielder etc.

Will be interesting to see if he/Palace can maintain their excellent form since Glasner took over, considering they've lost Olise etc.

I think it could be similar to the Rice situation where he spends a few years at Palace, provided they don't go down, and then goes for a triple-digit or close to triple-digit fee. Although, maybe he will be attainable as soon as next summer.

 

[Ish]

I think it could be similar to the Rice situation where he spends a few years at Palace, provided they don't go down, and then goes for a triple-digit or close to triple-digit fee. Although, maybe he will be attainable as soon as next summer.

If he continues his development then yeah, I'd have to agree with that.

 

[Hoof the ball]

Lucky's that guy who, after Barcelona signs Ronaldo Fenomeno from PSV, drops a thread recommending him as someone we should target.