Manuel Ugarte | Romano - he’s signed | Awaiting Club announcement

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Crimson King said:
Chelsea are definitely overdoing it. There's no guarantee any of those players will rise in value, and if they do clubs may just not be able to afford them. We're seeing that more and more, especially because of the financial regulations.

I don't disagree that you need a varied transfer strategy. Arsenal decided to spend big on Rice as they were a title challenger already. Liverpool did the same with VvD and Allison (and actually won the league, unlike Arsenal). You need to get to that point first though, because at that point there are only a few players that can genuinely improve on what you have in each position.

Also, I'm very wary of ever spending £100m or more on a player. Even £80m is risky. More often than not these transfers don't work out for the buying club. Saying Wharton will be worth that much in a few years is also premature. He's only played about 16 PL games so far.
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I agree.

I'd rather see us mostly go with the undervalued good players approach for now, until we have a stronger squad, but I accept that Yoro was seen as a best itw potential youngster and we made an exception for him.

De Ligt can arguably be considered an undervalued signing for around 35-42m despite being a high profile player.

Maybe Ugarte as well if we can get him for around 35m, even though I don't think he's a player we should be going for as a priority signing.

And looking at the current squad, I think we have a good number of players that were free or very good value deals anyway:
-Fernandes only cost 47m
-Garnacho cost 420k
-Mainoo, McTominay and Rashford came from the academy
-Zirkzee for 35m could very well prove to be an undervalued deal in the long-term
-Dalot cost 18m
-Shaw was big money but 10 years ago, so that 27m fee looks like peanuts now
-Malacia cost 13m
-Amad's base fee without add-ons was around 20m if I recall correctly, if he proves himself this season that'll have been worth it even with add-ons
-Martínez at 57m will also arguably go down as one of the best transfers we've ever made, but he needs to be a great player for us for many more years for that to become the general consensus IMO
 
Rojofiam said:
I think Wharton will be a top target for United and possibly other PL sides as well in 2025 or 2026, but not this summer. And it will take huge money to get him. Maybe 100+ million.
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Yeah, you'd need to offer crazy money right now, to even get Palace to the table, & if he continues his trajectory and development, 80-100m doesn't seem that far-fetched at all. Young, English, very rare, but important attributes for a midfielder etc.

Will be interesting to see if he/Palace can maintain their excellent form since Glasner took over, considering they've lost Olise etc.
 
Ish said:
Yeah, you'd need to offer crazy money right now, to even get Palace to the table, & if he continues his trajectory and development, 80-100m doesn't seem that far-fetched at all. Young, English, very rare, but important attributes for a midfielder etc.

Will be interesting to see if he/Palace can maintain their excellent form since Glasner took over, considering they've lost Olise etc.
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I think it could be similar to the Rice situation where he spends a few years at Palace, provided they don't go down, and then goes for a triple-digit or close to triple-digit fee. Although, maybe he will be attainable as soon as next summer.
 
Rojofiam said:
I think it could be similar to the Rice situation where he spends a few years at Palace, provided they don't go down, and then goes for a triple-digit or close to triple-digit fee. Although, maybe he will be attainable as soon as next summer.
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If he continues his development then yeah, I'd have to agree with that.
 
DWelbz19 said:
Yes that he's better suited than Casemiro to possession football, no in the sense that he's being binned from a side who play heavy possession football because he's not good enough with it to work in such an environment.

Seems like a midfielder who ticks a few boxes but also comes with his own flaws. Ideal for me would be that he's signed alongside a more progressive middle third passer.
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I want us to sign Ruiz but I feel like Arsenal will sign him. He was quality in the euros and he’s really good at passing. We defo need a number 6 but like you said we need a progressive passer also.
 
Rojofiam said:
I think it could be similar to the Rice situation where he spends a few years at Palace, provided they don't go down, and then goes for a triple-digit or close to triple-digit fee. Although, maybe he will be attainable as soon as next summer.
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Agree. It’s going to be a pain in the ass to get him
DWelbz19 said:
Yes that he's better suited than Casemiro to possession football, no in the sense that he's being binned from a side who play heavy possession football because he's not good enough with it to work in such an environment.

Seems like a midfielder who ticks a few boxes but also comes with his own flaws. Ideal for me would be that he's signed alongside a more progressive middle third passer.
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Yeah it just feels like every true DM option available this summer is flawed in some sense. My preference was Onana, but since we missed on him Ugarte is a decent option. Sad reality is many of these options will be immediate upgrades anyways on Casemiro and co.
 
I think bringing in Ugarte or a similar type midfielder who can challenge for a starting spot, along with maybe bringing in Amrabat for squad depth is really important. I don't see how the midfield can move forward with Casemiro still starting and then being 1 injury away from having to play Mctominay or Eriksen.
 
flameinthesun said:
I think bringing in Ugarte or a similar type midfielder who can challenge for a starting spot, along with maybe bringing in Amrabat for squad depth is really important. I don't see how the midfield can move forward with Casemiro still starting and then being 1 injury away from having to play Mctominay or Eriksen.
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We do need a cover (ideally starter) in the defensive midfield position. However, if Casemiro is staying than we don't need Amrabat as Case and the new DM can cover the position. Instead, I think we need someone who is a cover for Mainoo. Mount is a #10 and should be used there & Eriksen doesn't have the legs anymore to play game after game in the PL.
 
Paying 50M for him, when PSG paid the same money for Neves, and basically funding their transfer of a wonderkid to buy their castoff, would be a criminal offence. Try to get him for 35M or look for alternatives.
 
The more I watch Casemiro in preseason the more convinced I am that we need to sign Ugarte, and why PSG is holding us ransom.

He's a more energetic, press resistant version of Casemiro and one of the best medium/long passers in the game in terms of completion rate. ETH's system fits him like a glove.
 
Insanity said:
We do need a cover (ideally starter) in the defensive midfield position. However, if Casemiro is staying than we don't need Amrabat as Case and the new DM can cover the position. Instead, I think we need someone who is a cover for Mainoo. Mount is a #10 and should be used there & Eriksen doesn't have the legs anymore to play game after game in the PL.
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I just don't think Casemiro is up to it. He doesn't suit our style of play and for me is a huge weakness. Hence if we get in an Ugarte at least we have fresh blood there to challenge Case or to drop him. Whilst Ugarte wouldn't be the ideal signing for me, we can't go into another season relying on Casemiro, Mctominay and Eriksen.
 
In my humble opinion an upgrade on Casemiro is our most important transfer. I won't expect our team to improve much over last year with out better DM play. I have to belive they will get someone in, especially with Ineos now at the helm.
 
flameinthesun said:
I think bringing in Ugarte or a similar type midfielder who can challenge for a starting spot, along with maybe bringing in Amrabat for squad depth is really important. I don't see how the midfield can move forward with Casemiro still starting and then being 1 injury away from having to play Mctominay or Eriksen.
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Totally agree. If we do not bring back Amrabat and only have Casemiro we are screwed. Eriksen should be sold ASAP.
 
If the option of a paid loan with an reasonable option to buy is now a possibilty then Id imagine thats what we will be looking at.

Cant post the tweet.
 
theklr said:
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Seems like a good deal for everyone involved. It's not entirely ideal and I don't love it but if we're looking to get as many in as we can to fill gaps and hopefully help to enforce a bit of a cultural reboot then we'll need deals like this.
 
GDaly95 said:
Seems like a good deal for everyone involved. It's not entirely ideal and I don't love it but if we're looking to get as many in as we can to fill gaps and hopefully help to enforce a bit of a cultural reboot then we'll need deals like this.
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Finger crossed we get this done, we need this lad in our team.
 
Pronewbie said:
They know he'll very likely excel with us and increase his value. His greatest strengths are not valued by Enrique. I hope the club strikes a fair price based on his last season.
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I imagine that's the plan, accept a high priced loan (10-15m€ ?) and put an option to bring the total sum at 60m€ which I think was the PSG valuation
 
Would prefer a complete transfer but a season loan with a obligation to buy is still good.
 
Pronewbie said:
They know he'll very likely excel with us and increase his value. His greatest strengths are not valued by Enrique. I hope the club strikes a fair price based on his last season.
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Yes, we have a great track record of improving players who join us, especially when they're loan deals.
 
They paid 60 millions + loan of Sanchez for Neves. We shouldn't be paying almost as much for Ugarte.
 
Unless it’s a reasonable price for the option to buy then I’d be happy otherwise they could easily put an extortionate pricetag on him, especially if he does really well here on loan.

They hold all the cards here.
 
Orange Tree said:
They paid 60 millions + loan of Sanchez for Neves. We shouldn't be paying almost as much for Ugarte.
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Maybe it shouldn't but arguably they're doing us a favour if they loan him with just an option, we're not stuck with him if he bombs. He's not as young as Neves but pretty young still and if he fits the bill we can contract him for his prime years.
 
FrankDrebin said:
Would prefer a complete transfer but a season loan with a obligation to buy is still good.
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I'm on the opposite side of this. I think kicking the can down the road here is the best course of action. Even if the price ends up being higher than we can negotiate now, if he turns out to be integral and has a similar effect to Martinez in our side then fine, we'll prioritise purchasing him next summer. And if he doesn't, we're in the clear. It also means we might pick up another midfielder this summer - maybe another option to buy loan perhaps - which is really needed.

A loan with an option is absolutely perfect in my view.
 
RedDevilRoshi said:
Unless it’s a reasonable price for the option to buy then I’d be happy otherwise they could easily put an extortionate pricetag on him, especially if he does really well here on loan.

They hold all the cards here.
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How do they? We need to agree on the option to buy fee with them, it's up to us to agree or not, it's not like they can set any fee and we have to agree to it. This fee would be agreed now, not after his loan. They want him out, why would it be in their interest to put such a high optional fee on him that we don't even take him on loan?
 
Bastian said:
I'm on the opposite side of this. I think kicking the can down the road here is the best course of action. Even if the price ends up being higher than we can negotiate now, if he turns out to be integral and has a similar effect to Martinez in our side then fine, we'll prioritise purchasing him next summer. And if he doesn't, we're in the clear. It also means we might pick up another midfielder this summer - maybe another option to buy loan perhaps - which is really needed.

A loan with an option is absolutely perfect in my view.
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Given that cashflow seems to be a big problem for us right now, agreed, the loan and option to buy would suit us better. Sell AWB (£15m), sell McT (£25m), sell Lindelof (£15m?), buy Mazraoui (£20m), buy De Ligt (£35m), loan Ugarte. All that would cost us is the loan fee for Ugarte, and it would improve the squad massively.
 
Option to buy is great. Let them keep a high option. We don't need to exercise it!
 
Lennon7 said:
What if he's class for us and we want to?
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Then he'll be worth a higher price. And if he's class but the price is too high, the likelihood is he'll be invested in Manchester United and the two clubs can negotiate a price that's more reasonable.

A loan with option is very low risk, and more ideal than a loan with obligation or even a transfer. Ugarte doesn't tick every box, and he'll need to prove himself.
 
VP89 said:
Then he'll be worth a higher price. And if he's class but the price is too high, the likelihood is he'll be invested in Manchester United and the two clubs can negotiate a price that's more reasonable.

A loan with option is very low risk, and more ideal than a loan with obligation or even a transfer. Ugarte doesn't tick every box, and he'll need to prove himself.
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That's just poor negotiation.
 
My fear is loan with option we will end up paying a high loan fee, and if we want to make it permanent, then the fee+loan fee will take it into 50-60M territory which we wanted to avoid in the first place.
 
Berbaclass said:
That's just poor negotiation.
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Why?

If he turns out to explode in the Prem it'll be worth it and we'll have been able to address other areas of the squad prior to this season taking off. We'll have the hierarchy in place for a year to figure out the next summer window and properly prepare things.

What if we buy him for 55m or so and he ends up not being what we need? Would that represent great negotiation? I like him, he's an aggressive ball winner but our midfield setup is still hard to figure out, so I'm not certain he's the one we need. And I think we need two. We likely don't have money this summer to do so, but a loan might facilitate that.
 
Highfather_24 said:
My fear is loan with option we will end up paying a high loan fee, and if we want to make it permanent, then the fee+loan fee will take it into 50-60M territory which we wanted to avoid in the first place.
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It’ll be Ambrabat all over again, we paid €10m for the season to loan him excluding his wages, I dread to think what they’ll demand as the loan fee for Ugarte. If it’s reasonable, bring him in as an option but I think Collyer is better suited to what we need tbh. People will laugh at me but I think he will nail down a place before the season is out.
 
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