Manuel Ugarte | Romano - he’s signed | Awaiting Club announcement

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Harry Maguire (45km during 6 seasons at United) progressed the ball through passes 1.5 times the distance Kante did (30km during 5 seasons at Chelsea) in the premier league according to fbref.
Relative to it's size, the mongoose has the largest penis in the animal kingdom.

Meanwhile, in the land of the relevant, Kante was very good (sometimes excellent) in his ability to progress the ball during his time in the Premier League, both in terms of carries and forward passes.

But you must already know that, because you've obviously gone and looked at his fbref stuff en route to coming up with a completely useless stat that is clearly intended to manipulate the data so as to fit your initial (and woefully mistaken) point. Or to put it another way, you're arguing in bad faith.
 
This is just patently untrue. Real Madrid averaged 59.2% possession per game last season in Spain. Only Barcelona managed more.

For comparison, we averaged 50.6% - tied with Fulham - and lower than 8 other teams in the Premier League.

The idea that a "top team" can be a "top team" without averaging a lot more of the ball than their opponents is just not correct.
To expound on this, a top team is pretty much always going to average a high % of possession in the league, simply by virtue of facing lots of weaker opponents that will *force* them to have the ball and try to attack. So, a high % of possession in league play is descriptive of a top team, as much as it is prescriptive of a top team. But that also means a top team must be able to play well enough in those types of games to consistently win them
 
Relative to it's size, the mongoose has the largest penis in the animal kingdom.

Meanwhile, in the land of the relevant, Kante was very good (sometimes excellent) in his ability to progress the ball during his time in the Premier League, both in terms of carries and forward passes.

But you must already know that, because you've obviously gone and looked at his fbref stuff en route to coming up with a completely useless stat that is clearly intended to manipulate the data so as to fit your initial (and woefully mistaken) point. Or to put it another way, you're arguing in bad faith.

Wasn't intentional. If you'd have read my next posts you'd have seen I saw I brainfarted. I remember Kante's carries but I don't remember him being especially good with progressive passing. Which is why I made this poorly thought out comparison. I'll change my post.

Anyway I expect it's the barnacle.
 
Wasn't intentional. If you'd have read my next posts you'd have seen I saw I brainfarted. I remember Kante's carries but I don't remember him being especially good with progressive passing. Which is why I made this poorly thought out comparison. I'll change my post.

Anyway I expect it's the barnacle.
My biology teacher was fecking shit.
 
Relative to it's size, the mongoose has the largest penis in the animal kingdom.

Meanwhile, in the land of the relevant, Kante was very good (sometimes excellent) in his ability to progress the ball during his time in the Premier League, both in terms of carries and forward passes.

But you must already know that, because you've obviously gone and looked at his fbref stuff en route to coming up with a completely useless stat that is clearly intended to manipulate the data so as to fit your initial (and woefully mistaken) point. Or to put it another way, you're arguing in bad faith.

Anybody else's fingers hovering over the keyboard considering verifying the mongoose claim?
 
Anybody else's fingers hovering over the keyboard considering verifying the mongoose claim?
Nah all I know and care to know about animal penises is that the whales have bigger dicks than humans. I don't care to know whether this is true or not either
 
Nah all I know and care to know about animal penises is that the whales have bigger dicks than humans. I don't care to know whether this is true or not either

Since nothing is moving on Ugarte, go read about duck penises if you wanna be impressed/horrified.
 
Well nothing's going to happen till we can get some players out of the door.

Awful feeling being this lumbered with players that are grossly overpaid isn't it, leeches couldn't give a crap about our predicament
 
Would be silly not to go in for Fofana considering his price tag and how much better he looks than Ugarte in probably 90% of the aspects a midfielder in the premier league needs.
I was very impressed by those stats so spent some time in the Fofana thread, watched loads of clips...

He is an 8. That's not what we most urgently need.
 
I doubt inos watched utd from January on and thought our midfield was sufficient. They will deffo strengthen there
 
I was very impressed by those stats so spent some time in the Fofana thread, watched loads of clips...

He is an 8. That's not what we most urgently need.

So what do we urgently need and who are the realistic targets that could help solve the problem?
 
I may be skeptical here, but Zirkzee and Yoro were prospects signed from mid sized clubs based on their good performance over last year. The case with Ugarte and De Ligt is they're playing for one of the top European clubs who are looking to actively get rid of them in order to upgrade. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it is concerning since I can barely think of anyone signed from top clubs who has made it big at United, ever, and especially one who had a bad/avg previous season.
 
I may be skeptical here, but Zirkzee and Yoro were prospects signed from mid sized clubs based on their good performance over last year. The case with Ugarte and De Ligt is they're playing for one of the top European clubs who are looking to actively get rid of them in order to upgrade. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it is concerning since I can barely think of anyone signed from top clubs who has made it big at United, ever, and especially one who had a bad/avg previous season.

Nice bit of positivity there, would like to think that PSG would be more open to letting him leave on a loan proposal when they sign Neves. I have doubts that's the case though or more reliable sources would be talking it up by now
 
What holding midfield targets are there
Ugarte is a holding midfielder. Ederson at Atalanta is similarly tireless and combative, more capable of a progressive pass. Varela at Porto more rounded and understated. Bissouma may be possible.
 
Ugarte is a holding midfielder. Ederson at Atalanta is similarly tireless and combative, more capable of a progressive pass. Varela at Porto more rounded and understated. Bissouma may be possible.
Is Ugarte a holding midfielder? It maybe semantics but for me a holding midfielder is Claude Makelele type of player. One who will sit in front of the centre backs and shield. Amrabat is a holding midfielder.

Ugarte for me is a DM in the mould of Ngolo Kante. He will go searching for the ball. He will force turnovers higher up the pitch ala Kante. Therefore he needs to play in a double pivot. So someone is covering his zone when he's off chasing down the ball. Now a inverted full back could step in and cover or if we had the CBs for the task, get one of them to step into midfield to cover.

I dont think many clubs now play with a holding midfielder as a single pivot. Its more a case of a double pivot of a DLP and a DM or CM. I think Arsenal are a good example, Jorginho is a DLP, Delcan Rice is a DM.

I think there is a space in our squad for amrabat, as he is a holding midfielder. One if ETH uses properly can be an effective squad player.

We definitely need a DM with Ugarte's skillet and mindset in our team.
 
Someone in the Neves thread said it is reported by Portuguese TV channels, and that he recorded goodbye message to the fans.

I can only assume PSG are paying in full.
Even if it is not 60+10 it is probably nowhere near 120, Rui Costa confirmed they can sell below 120.


I almost wrote best regards at the end of that post, it has been a long day at work....
You should have. I think it will help brighten up this place, a little professionalism won’t hurt.
 
One of the main reasons i think this will happen is simply because of his age.

Every signing we have made so far has been 23 years old or younger with time to improve & develop their games within 3 years time to basically not just get us back to the top, but stay at the top for a while.

Players like Amrabat, Fofana, Zubimendi, Edson Alvarez do not fit this as well as players in the age bracket of Yoro & Zirkzee because in 3 years time they would be leaning more towards the end of their prime than actually be more in line at the start of their prime for a good decade of dominance.

Ugarte is 23 and statistically looks like the best ball winner we can get.

If we are going to play a high line of defence then there is no use for a player to just hold a deeper position to simply be just another defender with in a high line of 4.

Ugarte can track attacks before they happen by both going directly at the attacker and by keeping his position but the latter he needs to work on to not be outpositioned when he does go in chasing the ball rather than wait for the ball more so to come towards him.

I think this will be done and probably just trying to wait until we sell some players before we go in for him because that would make us sure about having the right financial capability to fill up another gap in the squad most possibly at LB in our next transfer after we get a new CDM.

One more reason why i think this will happen is that he looks more like a INEOS signing than a ten hag signing. It's no coincidence we have been linked to players like De Ligt, Alvarez & Mazroui - because as we have seen before Ten Hag does like to go for players he has worked with or seen before. With us signing Yoro its not a surprise that de ligt transfer has stalled.

Ugarte is a completely new signing for Ten Hag to manage deposited to him by Ineos rather than we as a club going in for the players that the manager wants, stopping us needing new players every time we get a new manager.
 
Nice bit of positivity there, would like to think that PSG would be more open to letting him leave on a loan proposal when they sign Neves. I have doubts that's the case though or more reliable sources would be talking it up by now

Not about being positive or negative. I was happy with Zirkzee and Yoro transfers and they're great business. I'd be happy with getting any promising potential or an established player from a lower status club. With Ugarte and De Ligt, it's a familiar feeling of the transfer business we've been doing in the Woodwardian era. I can't think of many players who've had this sort of a transfer and who've succeeded in the recent era in the premier league. Odegaard maybe.
 
One of the main reasons i think this will happen is simply because of his age.

Every signing we have made so far has been 23 years old or younger with time to improve & develop their games within 3 years time to basically not just get us back to the top, but stay at the top for a while.

Players like Amrabat, Fofana, Zubimendi, Edson Alvarez do not fit this as well as players in the age bracket of Yoro & Zirkzee because in 3 years time they would be leaning more towards the end of their prime than actually be more in line at the start of their prime for a good decade of dominance.

Ugarte is 23 and statistically looks like the best ball winner we can get.

If we are going to play a high line of defence then there is no use for a player to just hold a deeper position to simply be just another defender with in a high line of 4.

Ugarte can track attacks before they happen by both going directly at the attacker and by keeping his position but the latter he needs to work on to not be outpositioned when he does go in chasing the ball rather than wait for the ball more so to come towards him.

I think this will be done and probably just trying to wait until we sell some players before we go in for him because that would make us sure about having the right financial capability to fill up another gap in the squad most possibly at LB in our next transfer after we get a new CDM.

One more reason why i think this will happen is that he looks more like a INEOS signing than a ten hag signing. It's no coincidence we have been linked to players like De Ligt, Alvarez & Mazroui - because as we have seen before Ten Hag does like to go for players he has worked with or seen before. With us signing Yoro its not a surprise that de ligt transfer has stalled.

Ugarte is a completely new signing for Ten Hag to manage deposited to him by Ineos rather than we as a club going in for the players that the manager wants, stopping us needing new players every time we get a new manager.
I think it will happen as well. I think part of it depends on whether Doue picks Bayern or PSG as his next club. If it's the former then hopefully we can use Sancho in the Ugarte deal to reduce our outgoings.

I would like Ugarte to sign more than de ligt if I had to choose who the final signing of the summer was
 
Related to this, arsenal for Fabien Ruiz from PSG. Loan with obligation to buy. According to Duncan Castles this morning.

Surely we should be in for Fabien Ruiz as well. I know he's 28, but he's as close to frenkie de Jong as you're gonna get. Was fantastic for Spain in euros
 
Related to this, arsenal for Fabien Ruiz from PSG. Loan with obligation to buy. According to Duncan Castles this morning.

Surely we should be in for Fabien Ruiz as well. I know he's 28, but he's as close to frenkie de Jong as you're gonna get. Was fantastic for Spain in euros
If he really is available then it would be a mistake letting him go to Arsenal. Phenomenal player. Buy Ugarte and Ruiz on loan + buy next summer and our midfield would be set.
 
Related to this, arsenal for Fabien Ruiz from PSG. Loan with obligation to buy. According to Duncan Castles this morning.

Surely we should be in for Fabien Ruiz as well. I know he's 28, but he's as close to frenkie de Jong as you're gonna get. Was fantastic for Spain in euros

Damn, that would be some signing for them.
 
But doesnt ruiz play in the same spot as Rice really, we know Rice is shit as a 6, and arteta stopped playing him as a true 6 ages ago. Wonder how Ruiz fits their plan.
 
Annoying if Arsenal get Ruiz
Always wanted him to Utd if he was to play in the PL
Does it mean also PSG might want to hold on Ugarte since they getting Neves?
Also weird if PSG go along with loan for him but not Ugarte when we allegedly tried
 
Have a hard time believing it. PSG midfield was incredibly thin at the start of last season (Ugarte and WZE had to carry it for the first month or two) and it is just once Vitinha and Ruiz started to step up their game things got better.

But maybe Neves is straight competition for the same slot and Ruiz is 28 so maybe the good time to shuffle him off ? And they have another signing lined up ? Stranger things happened in Paris.
 
So what do we urgently need and who are the realistic targets that could help solve the problem?
First and foremost, we need to be able to win the ball back consistently and not give it away cheaply. Pirlo is sexy, but we need Gattuso more than we need Pirlo because Pirlo without the ball can't do jack shit.

I think it was summed up rather well here:

These are very simple, reductive stats that can't tell you anything real about the player. As for how they're depicted, I've had my rant about this style of diagram being entirely unsuitable for visualising the data it is depicting elsewhere so won't do it again here.

Personally I prefer the eye test, but if you like stats start somewhere with enough info to paint something of a useful picture. Here, for example.

Those stats show a player who sticks to a very specific brief: he defends, in very high volume and with a very high success rate. He passes, at high volume and with a high success rate, and has decent passing range (again, with a good success rate with long passes.) He carries the ball well, doesn't lose it much, can beat a press. He does not make progressive runs or progressive passes. He doesn't take corners, throw-ins, free-kicks. He doesn't advance far up the pitch, or try to get assists or goals. He is not a creative or progressive player.

This is what we need. We have creative and progressive players. In Bruno and Mainoo, we have a top creative passer and a top progressive carrier. One will lose the ball more than is ideal, and one will get through less defensive work than is ideal. Both need to be fed the ball a lot in central areas to be effective. So what you need is a superb defender and sweeper who will retake possession again and again, keep it under pressure and move through a press if necessary, and then feed the ball to the others quickly and efficiently as often as possible.

Check out Zubimendi's full stats on Fbref here. Doesn't look so impressive. Good at a few things but not brilliant at any of them. Worse passing accuracy for mid and long range passes than Ugarte. Weak defensively. Goal threat but surprisingly light on assists. Not as reliable carrying the ball.

Fofana I haven't watched as much so can't really comment - perhaps he is as excellent an all-round midfielder as that pizza chart suggests but again I'd recommend getting into the stats properly before drawing that conclusion.
 
But doesnt ruiz play in the same spot as Rice really, we know Rice is shit as a 6, and arteta stopped playing him as a true 6 ages ago. Wonder how Ruiz fits their plan.

He'd obviously step in next to Rice instead of Jorginho. Havertz isn't a midfielder except in an emergency, he's now their striker.
 
Is Ugarte a holding midfielder? It maybe semantics but for me a holding midfielder is Claude Makelele type of player. One who will sit in front of the centre backs and shield. Amrabat is a holding midfielder.

Ugarte for me is a DM in the mould of Ngolo Kante. He will go searching for the ball. He will force turnovers higher up the pitch ala Kante. Therefore he needs to play in a double pivot. So someone is covering his zone when he's off chasing down the ball. Now a inverted full back could step in and cover or if we had the CBs for the task, get one of them to step into midfield to cover.

I dont think many clubs now play with a holding midfielder as a single pivot. Its more a case of a double pivot of a DLP and a DM or CM. I think Arsenal are a good example, Jorginho is a DLP, Delcan Rice is a DM.

I think there is a space in our squad for amrabat, as he is a holding midfielder. One if ETH uses properly can be an effective squad player.

We definitely need a DM with Ugarte's skillet and mindset in our team.
He generally operates as the deepest midfielder, is what I've seen - when his side is in possession, he is the deepest midfielder and sat right in front of the back four (and would agree Kante played alongside an anchoring player, other than for France where I would say he was the 6 and Pogba the 8).
 
Annoying if Arsenal get Ruiz
Always wanted him to Utd if he was to play in the PL
Does it mean also PSG might want to hold on Ugarte since they getting Neves?
Also weird if PSG go along with loan for him but not Ugarte when we allegedly tried

Yeah that would be an awful double blow if they ended up getting him and PSG kept Ugarte
 
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