Because any one of us could have come to that conclusion. He probably wants to substantiate it in a superficial way by making it seem like it an update.
Manuel Ugarte | Romano - he’s signed | Awaiting Club announcement
- Thread starter WeePat
- Start date
- Status
Yep, that's pretty much the meaning of these 'updates with nothing to update' tweets.
I guess regularly saying 'nothing new to report' on all these lengthy drawn out transfers just isn't clickbait. Whereas they learn to word the 'updates' in ways that make them sound fresh and newsworthy. Even though what they're really saying much of the time is 'still nothing new to report'.
The update is that it's not dead in the water like some assume if too many days go by with no coverage.What exactly is the update he's provided here?
Tightening things up defensively is the quickest path back to a top 4 berth considering our offensive outputs under EtH. Mainoo has shown some very promising offensive glimpses and Ugarte is a very good press beating dribbler they say.
Not the best article is it? So what if he doesn't have high level of progressive passes? Did Kante have high level of progressive passes for Leicester and Chelsea? That's who he is most like in the way he plays apparently.
Then comparing him to Rice and Rodri, both who sit deep whereas Ugarte is more of a Kante, who will go search out the ball and create turnovers.
The likes of Enrique and Guardiola are very demanding in the passing ability of players for their system. Apparently Guardiola doesn't rate the passing ability of Matheus Nunes, which is why he hardly plays for city.
I was using that article to highlight Enrique's concern. So concerned that they are seemingly selling him after one season. I'm pretty sure he'll have a positive impact on us regardless of his short comings.
https://www.skysports.com/football/...er-could-help-shore-up-erik-ten-hags-midfield
I enjoyed reading that.
Interesting. I can only assume our scouts see something in him that stats don't show or PSG don't value. Could be a stepping stone to buy a better player next year as well.
Progressive passes per 90 in the league, as per Fbref.
Ugarte 23/24 - 4.05
Ugarte 22/23 - 4.60
Ugarte 21/22 - 4.47
Kante 22/23 - 5.86
Kante 21/22 - 8.07
Kante 20/21 - 4.87
Kante 19/20 - 6.88
Kante 18/19 - 5.17
Kante 17/18 - 8.23
Would be silly not to go in for Fofana considering his price tag and how much better he looks than Ugarte in probably 90% of the aspects a midfielder in the premier league needs.
They're completely different players though, I'm not sure why he's included in that comparison.
These are very simple, reductive stats that can't tell you anything real about the player. As for how they're depicted, I've had my rant about this style of diagram being entirely unsuitable for visualising the data it is depicting elsewhere so won't do it again here.
Personally I prefer the eye test, but if you like stats start somewhere with enough info to paint something of a useful picture. Here, for example.
Those stats show a player who sticks to a very specific brief: he defends, in very high volume and with a very high success rate. He passes, at high volume and with a high success rate, and has decent passing range (again, with a good success rate with long passes.) He carries the ball well, doesn't lose it much, can beat a press. He does not make progressive runs or progressive passes. He doesn't take corners, throw-ins, free-kicks. He doesn't advance far up the pitch, or try to get assists or goals. He is not a creative or progressive player.
This is what we need. We have creative and progressive players. In Bruno and Mainoo, we have a top creative passer and a top progressive carrier. One will lose the ball more than is ideal, and one will get through less defensive work than is ideal. Both need to be fed the ball a lot in central areas to be effective. So what you need is a superb defender and sweeper who will retake possession again and again, keep it under pressure and move through a press if necessary, and then feed the ball to the others quickly and efficiently as often as possible.
Check out Zubimendi's full stats on Fbref here. Doesn't look so impressive. Good at a few things but not brilliant at any of them. Worse passing accuracy for mid and long range passes than Ugarte. Weak defensively. Goal threat but surprisingly light on assists. Not as reliable carrying the ball.
Fofana I haven't watched as much so can't really comment - perhaps he is as excellent an all-round midfielder as that pizza chart suggests but again I'd recommend getting into the stats properly before drawing that conclusion.
Like I said, I haven't watched Ugarte play and I'm not judging him, stats or otherwise. All I'm saying is, if PSG are looking to get rid of a young talent who has prime years ahead of him for a relatively moderate fee, it could mean
1. He's not a fit for their style
2. They need the money
3. He's not good enough
4. They're stupid
1 or 3 are most plausible here and we had a similar situation with Amrabat last year where posters were wetting their pants but he turned out to be rather meh. So meh that we're contemplating if he's worth the cheap fee we agreed as an option last year. I just hope we've learned our lessons from cases like VDB, Amrabat etc and have our homework done.
If we can shift McT I hope we get some movement here. Of course we won't pay 70m eur and no immediate rush to complete since Ugarte is on his holiday
Those are two team you've mentioned. In a span of how many years. That's why I said, if you want to consistently win and compete for trophies you will need maximum control.
Madrid won the CL last season unbeaten.
City won the CL in 2023 unbeaten.
Bayern won CL in 2020 unbeaten.
Even our last CL win in 2008 we won it unbeaten. Even 1999 we did it unbeaten.
How people expect us to be like our two great historical teams, without being able to have a guarantee of winning 90% of our matches is being delusional.
What happened to people winning games probably, 30 years ago might be different to now. But the standard remains...
If Manchester United to be successful club right now, they need to be winning 90% of their total games. How to win those games might be subjective but the reality now is without control you can not win anything tangible.
On the league, City lost 3 games last season. All season. 5 games in 2023.
So in reality you need to lose 5 games maximum all competition to achieve anything meaningful this days.
Can that be achieved by having 50% possession? Naaah.
Let's be practical and realistic.
It helps that no one els is majorly interested so that buys us some time. Plus he wants to join us. Not sure whether he’d reject anyone els though in favour of us.
I find Romano rarely has anything truly intriguing to say; it's usually some variation on: "[team x] appreciates [insert player here] but they know that a deal won't be easy. But they for sure appreciate him, so let's see what happens."
Last season was more because of ETH change of tactics and unprecedented injuries in defence. Even if we had Rodri, he can't stop the unprecedented numbers of shots we conceded nearly every games.
Casemeiro was fine first season when we didn't use the suicidal tactics. Amrabat was doing well once ETH change the tactics at the end of the season right up to the FA Cup final.
Rabiot is a decent cover for the midfield. Of course I still prefer if we can get Ugarte. But we must support Ineos new direction which will not overpay for players.
Quite a few clubs are keen on Ugarte according to Romano.
Being successful on transitions and holding more of the ball than your opponent are not mutually exclusive points. People need to stop conflating the idea of holding the ball more than your opponent to being a Pep style tiki-taka side.
Jose Mourinho’s Inter Milan side you reference averaged 55% possession in Italy that season – second highest in the league. I’ve gone as far back as I can on WhoScored stats (about 2010) and our average possession under Sir Alex Ferguson in those final three-four seasons was around 55%, we were either the highest or second highest every year. And we definitely weren’t a “possession side” back then and were a side who everyone cried about having no midfield.
You just straight up can’t be a genuinely successful side without holding a lot more of the football than your opponent.
Going into every match on average with dead even possession just results in scrappy midfield duels and making games much harder than they need to be – which is the story of our life in recent years in the PL.
So few of you even talking about how this guy would interact with the main foil in midfield or whether he has the competence to play 1 and 2 touch, connective football. [elon]Concerning.[/elon]
Thread seems to be all about this guy running around, away from the actual defensive midfield area of the pitch, and not being good at progressive passing.
Not sure why or how he’s become a catch all player for so many.
Thread seems to be all about this guy running around, away from the actual defensive midfield area of the pitch, and not being good at progressive passing.
Not sure why or how he’s become a catch all player for so many.
Ye I know there keen but I mean I haven’t seen anyone majorly linked like we have been. And not a chance anyone els pays what they want.
So PSG are apparently buying Neves for 60+10, and want 70 for Ugarte from us??
I understand the structure of the deal plays a part, but there is no way we should even contemplate this transfer. I am fine missing on Ugarte and Branthwaite for the ridiculous money Everton and PSG are asking and I like both of them. Changing our status from clowns to competent on the transfer market is part of this and next transfer window.
I understand the structure of the deal plays a part, but there is no way we should even contemplate this transfer. I am fine missing on Ugarte and Branthwaite for the ridiculous money Everton and PSG are asking and I like both of them. Changing our status from clowns to competent on the transfer market is part of this and next transfer window.
sounds like a game of chicken and who would blink first to set a price on the players ....if they are getting Neves for 60m + 10addons that will weakend their position a bit in regards to the demands for Ugarte
Which outlet said they are getting Neves for half of their original asking price which was €120mil?
We bid €70mil at the start of the window according to a Portuguese journalist and that was rejected as not enough. But somehow they will now take a €50mil price cut?
Don't believe PSG are getting him for €60+10 for a second.
I don’t have much hope for a top 4 finish if 3 of our key midfielders going into next season are Rabiot, Casemiro and Amrabat. Doesn’t support this ideology that we want to build a young and hungry squad either.
Casemiro I’m happy staying (though I’d rather sell if we can get a replacement) to help mentor Mainoo and co
Rabiot or Amrabat would be poor signings IMO
Someone in the Neves thread said it is reported by Portuguese TV channels, and that he recorded goodbye message to the fans.
I can only assume PSG are paying in full.
Even if it is not 60+10 it is probably nowhere near 120, Rui Costa confirmed they can sell below 120.
I almost wrote best regards at the end of that post, it has been a long day at work....
A club no longer wanting a player, yet they are trying to fleece us. Onto the next target...
Ugarte or Zubamendi has to get done. Mark my words, if we go into the season with Casemiro as our starting 6, the season is chalked. It’s so clear to see that he’s passed it, unless he carried an injury last season that we didn’t know about but preseason so far looks like more of the same. He doesn’t have the legs to cover the ground needed in the system we are trying. He doesn’t have the passing ability to be a DLP. And his tackling was comically bad last season.
Cas needs to be moved on for whatever fee we can get and someone like Ugarte or Zubamendi in as a replacement. Get Amrabat or Rabiot as depth or hell, even give Collier some minutes.
Cas needs to be moved on for whatever fee we can get and someone like Ugarte or Zubamendi in as a replacement. Get Amrabat or Rabiot as depth or hell, even give Collier some minutes.
They put Deligt on simmer while we roast Ugarte.
Yes, actually.
This transfer seems to be very similar to the Branthwaite one…If the 70m figure is true then is time to say cheerio to PSG and look elsewhere.
You ain’t saying anything new. We all know it
Edit: bad comparison
Last edited:
A centre back versus a midfielder?
Not relevant, but 5 years ago was Ole with Mourinho in between before we get to LVG.
Made me chuckle, and reminds me of how people subconsciously think the 80s were 20 years ago
Fair point. I've just heard people say he only passes backwards/sideways a lot. My comparison probably isn't useful.
A defender has the whole pitch to play into, so I would generally expect them to come out on top with this particular metric.
Yeah. My thoughts too after I gave it a second to think about.
I haven’t been here long enough to know what the general consensus is on Casemiro here. You’d be surprised about how much you see online of people thinking he’s going to return to form this season. They don’t realize that’s just not how drop offs happen after 30. You don’t have a major fall off and then all of a sudden find it again. His legs are failing him. Not much he can do about it. Too many miles and whatnot.
Yeah should get Rabiot and one of Ugarte/Zubimendi, would say Fofana but he has a different sort of profile.
- Status