Manuel Ugarte | Romano - he’s signed | Awaiting Club announcement

[dubplate warrior]

Bruno, Mainoo and Ugarte is not a balanced midfield.

Mainoo is a BIG talent, but he should be playing as an advanced 8, receiving the ball from a Carrick like player, whilst having a destroyer like Ugarte. If we were to sign Ugarte, we would need to also sign someone like Zubimendi behind Mainoo. Bruno is great in his own way but it's an issue that he can't play on the half turn, and doesn't have the attributes to play possession football.

 

[RuudTom83]

Bruno, Mainoo and Ugarte is not a balanced midfield.

Mainoo is a BIG talent, but he should be playing as an advanced 8, receiving the ball from a Carrick like player, whilst having a destroyer like Ugarte. If we were to sign Ugarte, we would need to also sign someone like Zubimendi behind Mainoo. Bruno is great in his own way but it's an issue that he can't play on the half turn, and doesn't have the attributes to play possession football.

If Licha is on form then his passing is a huge plus and would help out whoever is playing in the deepest midfield position.

 

[pascell]

Bruno, Mainoo and Ugarte is not a balanced midfield.

Mainoo is a BIG talent, but he should be playing as an advanced 8, receiving the ball from a Carrick like player, whilst having a destroyer like Ugarte. If we were to sign Ugarte, we would need to also sign someone like Zubimendi behind Mainoo. Bruno is great in his own way but it's an issue that he can't play on the half turn, and doesn't have the attributes to play possession football.

I agree, it would be like playing Bruno and Fred together, too many spaces behind for the opposition to exploit.

 

[Jordan_mufc]

Thats the problem mate, you are putting seriously and consistently world-class with perhaps only one world class season midfielder M. Carrick, he was great for us, but his defensive work is overrated and top passing range really ever shown only in his last season.

If there was a Carrick in the market, he would probably be expensive, but definitely not what we need now. A player good on the ball when he got time but lacking any mobility. Mainoo on the other hand is much more press resistant despite lacking the top level passing range, but thats more suited for the football today, and what we got now.

But back to your original point putting giggs, becks, and carrick in one sentence is reall insult to the former two. Carrick was just a great payer playing next to the team full of world class players. Put Herrera or Fred in there and they would have a great career too.

This is quite wild. The introduction of Carrick coincided with the best period in our recent history.

 

[Highfather_24]

I think its bold to assume we want to play possesion football. ETH has said he wants us to be a transitional team i.e counter attacking team.

In that case it makes sense why he doesnt want a "controller" in midfield.

 

[VP89]

I think its bold to assume we want to play possesion football. ETH has said he wants us to be a transitional team i.e counter attacking team.

In that case it makes sense why he doesnt want a "controller" in midfield.

That was under certain stylistic instructions pre Wilcox/Ashworth. Whether it's the same this season or tweaked, we'll have to wait and see.

 

[RobbieBerns]

If Licha is on form then his passing is a huge plus and would help out whoever is playing in the deepest midfield position.

Same goes for Shaw being available instead of a CB or a RB playing that position. Same also goes for Yoro in place of Maguire/Evans/Lindelof.

Onana
Dalot - Yoro - Martinez - Shaw

With that back five you can imagine we’ll have a much easier time progressing the ball and finding our front 4 in space.

 

[Hoof the ball]

The Tweets X's have gone dry as Prohibition this week. What's happening @mazhar13? Our transfer momentum is dependent upon it!

 

[Tarrou]

Carrick was just a great payer playing next to the team full of world class players. Put Herrera or Fred in there and they would have a great career too.

what a take!!!

were you supporting United back then?

prior to signing Carrick we struggling for 2/3 years, especially in midfield. Probably Fergie's worst period after he starting winning

Carrick just knitted everything together and it all clicked after that, and we started dominating again

without him, or replacing him with Fred or Herrera, and we wouldn't have been as successful in that period, no where near

 

[Davicho]

No player in today market has the quick forward pass Carrick had in his prime. Almost from every angle he received the ball, he could find a forward player in one or two touches. It was really a joy to watch.

 

[mazhar13]

The Tweets X's have gone dry as Prohibition this week. What's happening @mazhar13? Our transfer momentum is dependent upon it!

We'll find out the moment there's any news. At the moment, it's all a waiting game as PSG seem to be waiting on Benfica to accept their last offer for Neves whilst we wait for them to accept our last offer for Ugarte.

 

[dinostar77]

Bruno, Mainoo and Ugarte is not a balanced midfield.

Mainoo is a BIG talent, but he should be playing as an advanced 8, receiving the ball from a Carrick like player, whilst having a destroyer like Ugarte. If we were to sign Ugarte, we would need to also sign someone like Zubimendi behind Mainoo. Bruno is great in his own way but it's an issue that he can't play on the half turn, and doesn't have the attributes to play possession football.

You have a passer (Mainoo), a creator (Bruno) and a destroyer (Ugarte). That's the conventional wisdom of a midfield trio which covers all your bases.

 

[King7Eric]

You have a passer (Mainoo), a creator (Bruno) and a destroyer (Ugarte). That's the conventional wisdom of a midfield trio which covers all your bases.

Mainoo is not a passer. I'm getting the feeling that people seem to have created an image of a player with Mainoo that doesn't match with reality.

He's not someone who is going to control the tempo of games. He's more akin to a Seedorf or Pogba ( in terms of ball progression profile). Someone who will progress the ball by carrying it through tight space and will play one-twos in the opposition half. But he's not someone like a Kroos or Pirlo who would be the definition of a passer.

 

[christinaa]

Same goes for Shaw being available instead of a CB or a RB playing that position. Same also goes for Yoro in place of Maguire/Evans/Lindelof.

Onana
Dalot - Yoro - Martinez - Shaw

With that back five you can imagine we’ll have a much easier time progressing the ball and finding our front 4 in space.

I'm still not so sure of Onana!

 

[dubplate warrior]

You have a passer (Mainoo), a creator (Bruno) and a destroyer (Ugarte). That's the conventional wisdom of a midfield trio which covers all your bases.

Mainoo does not have the passing range required, he's great for give and goes and should be closer to the oppositions box then our own.

You need someone to be able to receive and pass the ball from deep. We can't just rely on Martinez to pass from deep.

 

[Jirk-zzzeee!]

Mainoo is not a passer. I'm getting the feeling that people seem to have created an image of a player with Mainoo that doesn't match with reality.

He's not someone who is going to control the tempo of games. He's more akin to a Seedorf or Pogba ( in terms of ball progression profile). Someone who will progress the ball by carrying it through tight space and will play one-twos in the opposition half. But he's not someone like a Kroos or Pirlo who would be the definition of a passer.

Mainoo does not have the passing range required, he's great for give and goes and should be closer to the oppositions box then our own.

You need someone to be able to receive and pass the ball from deep. We can't just rely on Martinez to pass from deep.

Maybe I'm wrong here but Xavi was one of the best playmakers ever & his passing was much more short passing and moving and passing again.

Xavi didn't dictate the play like a deep lying playmaker as seen it was Xabi Alonso playing this way for Spain. Pirlo is another deep lying playmaker aswell as Carrick.

Whilst Mainoo is not a deep lying playmaker, i don't see why he cant be like Xavi where he dictates the tempo of the team with more short passes and dribbles. Another player Mainoo could play similair is Modric more so than playing like Kroos.

I've seen a recent youtube video about how english club fans don't tend to rate the number 6 role that highly & i can kind of see it with people wandering if Ugarte is better than Zubimendi or even that players like Declan Rice are overrated because they dont pass the ball like Kroos.

I think these players are actually underrated as the number 6 role to alot of English club fans is undervalued & under appreciated which makes people believe they are overrated players.

 

[RobbieBerns]

I'm still not so sure of Onana!

As a whole for the GK spot I agree with you but I do think his ability with the ball at his feet will be a much bigger asset this year given he’ll have a back four of guys who can properly play.

 

[Ekeke]

Bruno, Mainoo and Ugarte is not a balanced midfield.

Mainoo is a BIG talent, but he should be playing as an advanced 8, receiving the ball from a Carrick like player, whilst having a destroyer like Ugarte. If we were to sign Ugarte, we would need to also sign someone like Zubimendi behind Mainoo. Bruno is great in his own way but it's an issue that he can't play on the half turn, and doesn't have the attributes to play possession football.

Possession football itself is overrated. It all depends what you do with it

As for Bruno though he just played in a team that had the most possession at the european championships

Regardless of that it would be Mainoo and Ugarte in midfield and Mainoo has already shown he can play as the deepest midfielder last season. The only issue was that he has a lack of experience and his age. He will obviously improve and is already better defensively than Zubimendi

 

[King7Eric]

Maybe I'm wrong here but Xavi was one of the best playmakers ever & his passing was much more short passing and moving and passing again.

Xavi didn't dictate the play like a deep lying playmaker as seen it was Xabi Alonso playing this way for Spain. Pirlo is another deep lying playmaker aswell as Carrick.

Whilst Mainoo is not a deep lying playmaker, i don't see why he cant be like Xavi where he dictates the tempo of the team with more short passes and dribbles. Another player Mainoo could play similair is Modric more so than playing like Kroos.

I've seen a recent youtube video about how english club fans don't tend to rate the number 6 role that highly & i can kind of see it with people wandering if Ugarte is better than Zubimendi or even that players like Declan Rice are overrated because they dont pass the ball like Kroos.

I think these players are actually underrated as the number 6 role to alot of English club fans is undervalued & under appreciated which makes people believe they are overrated players.

A young Modric is actually a good comparison. Although Mainoo has a long long way to go in terms of being spoken in the same breath as Modric, but yeah he has the tools to develop into that kind of player.

The issue is though as you have already highlighted. For players like Modric you need them next to a Kroos and then a pure destroyer to get the best out of them. Mainoo cannot play a similar role in this team. In the future he may develop into the fulcrum of the team, but he needs player that will play to his strengths.

 

[Highfather_24]

Maybe I'm wrong here but Xavi was one of the best playmakers ever & his passing was much more short passing and moving and passing again.

Xavi didn't dictate the play like a deep lying playmaker as seen it was Xabi Alonso playing this way for Spain. Pirlo is another deep lying playmaker aswell as Carrick.

Whilst Mainoo is not a deep lying playmaker, i don't see why he cant be like Xavi where he dictates the tempo of the team with more short passes and dribbles. Another player Mainoo could play similair is Modric more so than playing like Kroos.

I've seen a recent youtube video about how english club fans don't tend to rate the number 6 role that highly & i can kind of see it with people wandering if Ugarte is better than Zubimendi or even that players like Declan Rice are overrated because they dont pass the ball like Kroos.

I think these players are actually underrated as the number 6 role to alot of English club fans is undervalued & under appreciated which makes people believe they are overrated players.

Yeah, Mainoo is nothing like Xavi. Xavi averaged like 70-80 passes a game, probably more. Mainoo sits around 30 on a good day.

 

[stepic]

A young Modric is actually a good comparison. Although Mainoo has a long long way to go in terms of being spoken in the same breath as Modric, but yeah he has the tools to develop into that kind of player.

The issue is though as you have already highlighted. For players like Modric you need them next to a Kroos and then a pure destroyer to get the best out of them. Mainoo cannot play a similar role in this team. In the future he may develop into the fulcrum of the team, but he needs player that will play to his strengths.

Yeah, and Bruno is no Kroos, to use the RM midfield trio that dominated so effectively

 

[dubplate warrior]

Maybe I'm wrong here but Xavi was one of the best playmakers ever & his passing was much more short passing and moving and passing again.

Xavi didn't dictate the play like a deep lying playmaker as seen it was Xabi Alonso playing this way for Spain. Pirlo is another deep lying playmaker aswell as Carrick.

Whilst Mainoo is not a deep lying playmaker, i don't see why he cant be like Xavi where he dictates the tempo of the team with more short passes and dribbles. Another player Mainoo could play similair is Modric more so than playing like Kroos.

I've seen a recent youtube video about how english club fans don't tend to rate the number 6 role that highly & i can kind of see it with people wandering if Ugarte is better than Zubimendi or even that players like Declan Rice are overrated because they dont pass the ball like Kroos.

I think these players are actually underrated as the number 6 role to alot of English club fans is undervalued & under appreciated which makes people believe they are overrated players.

Mainoo is closer to Iniesta than Xavi. He can help dictate the game but it's not making the most of his ability.

 

[dubplate warrior]

Possession football itself is overrated. It all depends what you do with it

As for Bruno though he just played in a team that had the most possession at the european championships

Regardless of that it would be Mainoo and Ugarte in midfield and Mainoo has already shown he can play as the deepest midfielder last season. The only issue was that he has a lack of experience and his age. He will obviously improve and is already better defensively than Zubimendi

It's nice to be able to control games. If you have good players than eventually the more you have of the ball the more you'll score and the less you'll concede. There's also an element of stylistic preference but I think treating the ball well is important if you are actually looking to impose your style of play on the game.

Possession football itself is overrated. It all depends what you do with it

As for Bruno though he just played in a team that had the most possession at the european championships

Regardless of that it would be Mainoo and Ugarte in midfield and Mainoo has already shown he can play as the deepest midfielder last season. The only issue was that he has a lack of experience and his age. He will obviously improve and is already better defensively than Zubimendi

When we finally get to a point where we utilise our players to what their best at, not just what they can do we'll be better off.

 

[devilsadvoca8]

Rodri is the only player playing today in Carricks class. Even then Carrick is a better passer. Looking for a Carrick now is not possible. Going back to Ugarte, we need a player like him, someone that won't let a bottom half teams CM dominate us with physicality someone that will put his foot in and win loose balls and cover spaces in the midfield. We need a hard man more than anything, Fred was a hard worker but wasn't close to being the brute that Ugarte is, Ugarte won't let Onana and McGinn dominate us when we play Villa or let Guimares and Joelinton run the midfield against us. That's what we need. You all speak of balance, no midfield 3 can be properly balanced with Bruno in it, best we can do is cover his deficiencies and Ugarte will do that.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Real Madrid doesn't play possession football but they are a top team.
The idea that we can only be a top team by possession football is not based on reality but the preference of some fans

It’s based on our unique predicament of being atrocious at the core tenants of possession play. I am not tied to the idea of tiki-taka or *insert random style* football aside from preferring attacking football. But regardless of what the manager’s preferences may be, top teams tend to have to have the basic principals of possession play as part of their repertoire. Ignoring peak Spain, Artera’snArsenal and Pep’s City / Barca teams, Real Madrid, United under SAF and Bayern at their recent prime (Hynckes) didn’t pass the opponent to death but were fully capable of dominating through possession play even if they didn’t focus solely on it.

Essentially the point is usually that you cannot be a great team without being great at those things regardless of how you set up and IMO and I’ve held this view for awhile, we have over the last 10-12 years be so terrible at these facets that we need a manager to teach us posssesion football and drill into us for us to catch up with other progressive teams and get out of our tactical mire. We’re the only supposedly big club for which the central congested areas are like a nuclear hazard zone we disintegrate around. So I don’t believe it’s just a personal choice but a personal view that this is what the club needs to modernise.

 

[Gordon S]

Someone just suggested Carrick was about as good as Fred. I need a drink.

 

[Jirk-zzzeee!]

Mainoo is closer to Iniesta than Xavi. He can help dictate the game but it's not making the most of his ability.

Yeah, Mainoo is nothing like Xavi. Xavi averaged like 70-80 passes a game, probably more. Mainoo sits around 30 on a good day.

A young Modric is actually a good comparison. Although Mainoo has a long long way to go in terms of being spoken in the same breath as Modric, but yeah he has the tools to develop into that kind of player.

The issue is though as you have already highlighted. For players like Modric you need them next to a Kroos and then a pure destroyer to get the best out of them. Mainoo cannot play a similar role in this team. In the future he may develop into the fulcrum of the team, but he needs player that will play to his strengths.

I personally especially remember Xavi at a young age because i remember him actually being put out for transfers because he was not that good. Then in the Rijkaard/Pep era; especially under Pep's coaching he suddenly became this legendary player we call as Xavi today.

I'm by no means saying that Mainoo is going to be better than Xavi at his peak but i do believe Mainoo as a young player is better than Xavi when he was younger. Can you imagine what Mainoo under the coaching of Guardiola's possesion tactics and teams would play like? He would be amazing & a high chance he could turn just as legendary with arguably one of the best managers of all times coaching & tactics.

Modric was not even in the PL at Mainoo's age as far as i remember & looked good at Spurs but also took time to settle in & grow to his Real Madrid standard.

Mainoo has only had his first season for United & even England and has been playing very well already for both these teams.

He is 18 & will slow down and keep his game smooth and at a recycling type of pace as he ages in my opinion.

 

[Hoof the ball]

Someone just suggested Carrick was about as good as Fred. I need a drink.

Conversely, I think that person needs to lay off the drink.

 

[dubplate warrior]

Rodri is the only player playing today in Carricks class. Even then Carrick is a better passer. Looking for a Carrick now is not possible. Going back to Ugarte, we need a player like him, someone that won't let a bottom half teams CM dominate us with physicality someone that will put his foot in and win loose balls and cover spaces in the midfield. We need a hard man more than anything, Fred was a hard worker but wasn't close to being the brute that Ugarte is, Ugarte won't let Onana and McGinn dominate us when we play Villa or let Guimares and Joelinton run the midfield against us. That's what we need. You all speak of balance, no midfield 3 can be properly balanced with Bruno in it, best we can do is cover his deficiencies and Ugarte will do that.

You're 100% correct with the Bruno comment. In a year or two we should be moving him on and let Mainoo take his place as the main attacking presence in midfield.

 

[Overhaul FC]

Barcelona wanted Zubimendi badly last summer but couldn't afford him. They bought Romeu for 3m euro and signed Gundogan on a free instead. Its not clear that Zubimendi wanted the move - again, he really hasn't shown an indication of wanting to leave Real Sociedad - but if you think big clubs haven't wanted to sign him you are just flat wrong.

He was linked to Bayern too when it looked like Xabi Alonso was going to go there. I know he's a fan of his. But time will tell on whether he wants the move, or whether a club is willing to pay for his services.

 

[Plastic Evra]

Bruno, Mainoo and Ugarte is not a balanced midfield.

Mainoo is a BIG talent, but he should be playing as an advanced 8, receiving the ball from a Carrick like player, whilst having a destroyer like Ugarte. If we were to sign Ugarte, we would need to also sign someone like Zubimendi behind Mainoo. Bruno is great in his own way but it's an issue that he can't play on the half turn, and doesn't have the attributes to play possession football.

The issue is that the imbalance is not due to a 6 or Ugarte (tentatively) and possibly worse without a destructive/ball winning type.
It's potentially even baked in because of Bruno and I don't see us moving to a midfield 4 or 5 / front 2 that could possibly correct it.

 

[mazhar13]

Looks like Plettenberg or one of his colleagues has been checking out the Caf recently:

 

[FootyGirl88]

 

[devilsadvoca8]

You're 100% correct with the Bruno comment. In a year or two we should be moving him on and let Mainoo take his place as the main attacking presence in midfield.

Exactly, I like Bruno but Mainoo should be the Iniesta not the Xavi, put Mainoo as the furthest of the 3 and play two other midfielders with him. That's when we will be truly balanced. A Mainoo Ugarte and Zubimendi midfield would be ridiculous or players of that type. For now Bruno ain't leaving so we have to work around the imbalance.

 

[Plastic Evra]

70m€... Nasser is a greedy, greedy man.

 

[TheGame]

70 millions euros, feck off if that's true. Hopefully we can negotiate a better price.

 

[King7Eric]

Yeah, and Bruno is no Kroos, to use the RM midfield trio that dominated so effectively

Precisely. I think for us to have a balanced midfield, Bruno will need to be more disciplined and drop deeper. Irrespective of who we sign as the DM, this tactical tweak is needed to get the best out of Mainoo and the entire team.

 

[christinaa]

As a whole for the GK spot I agree with you but I do think his ability with the ball at his feet will be a much bigger asset this year given he’ll have a back four of guys who can properly play.

He waits too much with the ball and takes too many risks.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Mainoo is not a passer. I'm getting the feeling that people seem to have created an image of a player with Mainoo that doesn't match with reality.

He's not someone who is going to control the tempo of games. He's more akin to a Seedorf or Pogba ( in terms of ball progression profile). Someone who will progress the ball by carrying it through tight space and will play one-twos in the opposition half. But he's not someone like a Kroos or Pirlo who would be the definition of a passer.

Umm Pogba was a world class passer

 

[Highfather_24]

For 70M euros or roundabouts, we can get Neves. He would be the perfect Bruno replacement tbh. Not one for one, but in terms of midfield balance :

-----Ugarte/Dm
Neves----Mainoo

Sadly never gonna happen