Manuel Ugarte | Romano - he’s signed | Awaiting Club announcement

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Cypriot said:
People seem to think a player who hasn't played since the internationals would just slot into our team and turn an inevitable 3-0 loss to a 5-0 win just because.
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It's weird.

Mazraoui plays because we have 2 LBs injured, De Ligt didn't start a game yet, Zirkzee too, this guy didn't have any preseason since the Copa Americas, he is no nowhere near match fit, there was no chance he would start or even feature from the bench vs Liverpool yet some folks are moaning...damn.
 
Fabrizio has just announced the McTominey to Napoli deal has been completed and signed in the last hour.
We’ll soon find out if his info is true.
If so, the Ugarte deal can be completed.
An announcement incoming in the next hour, possibly?
 
Dominos said:
Have we actually missed the deadline or is that speculation?

It's not like he's been sat on the couch. If he'd have trained a few days with us this week, I'm sure he could have been on the bench.

Or, better yet, we can actually get our signings done well in advance of the season, it sounds crazy I know.

Every year we play the first 3 games of the season with barely any new players because we can't get them through the door and we cost ourselves points every year because of it. We've actually played the first 3 games of the season with worse midfield options than we had last year.
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Making an investment worth 50m plus wages etc, should be looked at in the longer term, not through the lens of the first three games. Firstly Ugarte was at Copa, which meant it would always be a late signing, secondly the initial fee was 70m euros and we’ve gotten him for 50 plus 10. I would say that several weeks of negotiation, and not being available for the first three games, is worth the 10-20m euros saved. I think this is where being a grown up and professional is quite helpful when it comes to running a multi-billion pound organisation; and not being an over-excited couch muppet whose entire perspective of the future rests on a seven minute cameo at the weekend.

As for the rest of our signings, Zirkzee and Yoro were brought in very early. Earlier than most of our rivals did any business. De Ligt and Mazraoui in time for the start of the season. You may or may not have noticed, but there were two rather large international tournaments this summer, which heavily impacted most clubs ability to do business early in the window, and also meant players have come back late - needing rest - somewhat unfit and not ready to play.

Us starting the season with a “worse” midfield than this time last year is the result of years of bad squad building, not the result of not getting deals done fast enough this window. This window what was important was to (a) get the RIGHT players in for our long term success (accomplished), (b) not overpay for players and change the entire narrative about United being a soft touch in the transfer market, even if this meant protracted negotiations (accomplished), and (c) shift out unwanted and unneeded players (significant progress and ongoing).

To look at the success or failure of this window through the context of the first three games is just fecking daft, and the type of reductive thinking that makes clubs buy crap players just because they are easy to sign/available. The general barrel of shite we had available on match day one was a result of years of bad dealings, not the result of this window. We should go into next season with a much better starting squad now, that can add 2-3 players to go up another level.
 
simonhch said:
Making an investment worth 50m plus wages etc, should be looked at in the longer term, not through the lens of the first three games. Firstly Ugarte was at Copa, which meant it would always be a late signing, secondly the initial fee was 70m euros and we’ve gotten him for 50 plus 10. I would say that several weeks of negotiation, and not being available for the first three games, is worth the 10-20m euros saved. I think this is where being a grown up and professional is quite helpful when it comes to running a multi-billion pound organisation; and not being an over-excited couch muppet whose entire perspective of the future rests on a seven minute cameo at the weekend.

As for the rest of our signings, Zirkzee and Yoro were brought in very early. Earlier than most of our rivals did any business. De Ligt and Mazraoui in time for the start of the season. You may or may not have noticed, but there were two rather large international tournaments this summer, which heavily impacted most clubs ability to do business early in the window, and also meant players have come back late - needing rest - somewhat unfit and not ready to play.

Us starting the season with a “worse” midfield than this time last year is the result of years of bad squad building, not the result of not getting deals done fast enough this window. This window what was important was to (a) get the RIGHT players in for our long term success (accomplished), (b) not overpay for players and change the entire narrative about United being a soft touch in the transfer market, even if this meant protracted negotiations (accomplished), and (c) shift out unwanted and unneeded players (significant progress and ongoing).

To look at the success or failure of this window through the context of the first three games is just fecking daft, and the type of reductive thinking that makes clubs buy crap players just because they are easy to sign/available. The general barrel of shite we had available on match day one was a result of years of bad dealings, not the result of this window. We should go into next season with a much better starting squad now, that can add 2-3 players to go up another level.
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Don’t come in here and talk sense alright?
 
DJ_21 said:
Ok.. another question then. Why have we targeted all players that are apparently unfit?! I’m assuming there unfit since only 1 of our new signings as gone straight into the team.
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They certainly can go straight into the team. But the process of pre-season and getting fit always a factor. Most player in the starting 11 now not upto speed yet. With euros and copa America has slowed that process a bit.
 
simonhch said:
Making an investment worth 50m plus wages etc, should be looked at in the longer term, not through the lens of the first three games. Firstly Ugarte was at Copa, which meant it would always be a late signing, secondly the initial fee was 70m euros and we’ve gotten him for 50 plus 10. I would say that several weeks of negotiation, and not being available for the first three games, is worth the 10-20m euros saved. I think this is where being a grown up and professional is quite helpful when it comes to running a multi-billion pound organisation; and not being an over-excited couch muppet whose entire perspective of the future rests on a seven minute cameo at the weekend.

As for the rest of our signings, Zirkzee and Yoro were brought in very early. Earlier than most of our rivals did any business. De Ligt and Mazraoui in time for the start of the season. You may or may not have noticed, but there were two rather large international tournaments this summer, which heavily impacted most clubs ability to do business early in the window, and also meant players have come back late - needing rest - somewhat unfit and not ready to play.

Us starting the season with a “worse” midfield than this time last year is the result of years of bad squad building, not the result of not getting deals done fast enough this window. This window what was important was to (a) get the RIGHT players in for our long term success (accomplished), (b) not overpay for players and change the entire narrative about United being a soft touch in the transfer market, even if this meant protracted negotiations (accomplished), and (c) shift out unwanted and unneeded players (significant progress and ongoing).

To look at the success or failure of this window through the context of the first three games is just fecking daft, and the type of reductive thinking that makes clubs buy crap players just because they are easy to sign/available. The general barrel of shite we had available on match day one was a result of years of bad dealings, not the result of this window. We should go into next season with a much better starting squad now, that can add 2-3 players to go up another level.
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Fantastic post.
 
Insulting another member
DJ_21 said:
Ok.. another question then. Why have we targeted all players that are apparently unfit?! I’m assuming there unfit since only 1 of our new signings as gone straight into the team.
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I heard Dan put it on his checklist.

- Fills a specific squad need
- Right age profile
- Right mentality
- Wants to come
- Particular skill set
- Supporting data analytics
- Represents good value
- Sustainable wage demands
- Fits the desired style of play
- Is apparently unfit.

Either that, or you’re being a mewling quim. It’s a coin toss really.
 
simonhch said:
You’re absolutely right. These muppets should’ve just paid what PSG wanted weeks ago, shot Manuel up with Messi hormones and thrashed Liverpool on Sunday. Wankers.

Better?
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There! That’s definitely better. You gotta give the people what they want.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
Seriously? You really expect the club to back down on a target because they might not be match fit for an upcoming fixture? That would be so short sighted. :lol:
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There’s a solution to that. It’s called signing them early so they get training and pre season under there belt. I mean it’s not like they have all season to look at what players they want for when the window opens.
 
simonhch said:
I heard Dan put it on his checklist.

- Fills a specific squad need
- Right age profile
- Right mentality
- Wants to come
- Particular skill set
- Supporting data analytics
- Represents good value
- Sustainable wage demands
- Fits the desired style of play
- Is apparently unfit.

Either that, or you’re being a mewling quim. It’s a coin toss really.
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No idea what this means mate but I doubt it’s in the dictionary.
 
We're probably losing to Liverpool tomorrow with or without him, so it's best that he starts the next game instead when we're in bounce back mode.
 
I’m delighted we’ve got Sekou Kone, but when I got a notification from the United app saying we’d signed a midfielder I was kind of hoping it was this guy.
 
Blood Mage said:
We're probably losing to Liverpool tomorrow with or without him, so it's best that he starts the next game instead when we're in bounce back mode.
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We should already be in bounce back mode. Losing 2 in a row and this place and our fans go crazy and know nothings changed from last season.
 
Heads up to all of you. Uruguay will be shite over this international week and it will have nothing to do with Ugarte.

A Nacional (URU) player died on Tuesday after he collapsed on the pitch during a Conmebol Libertadores game in Sao Paulo and then went into cardiac arrest during transport on an ambulance with no defibrilator or medic. Former teammate of 3-4 NT regulars who are of course devastated.

Conmebol's immediate and timely response was of course to issue their disciplinary decision on the Colombia game fracas. 5 games Darwin, 4 Bentancur, 3 for three of our back four while our RB is suspended from a red during Copa.

It will be a car crash, nowt Ugarte can do about it.
 
simonhch said:
Making an investment worth 50m plus wages etc, should be looked at in the longer term, not through the lens of the first three games. Firstly Ugarte was at Copa, which meant it would always be a late signing, secondly the initial fee was 70m euros and we’ve gotten him for 50 plus 10. I would say that several weeks of negotiation, and not being available for the first three games, is worth the 10-20m euros saved. I think this is where being a grown up and professional is quite helpful when it comes to running a multi-billion pound organisation; and not being an over-excited couch muppet whose entire perspective of the future rests on a seven minute cameo at the weekend.

As for the rest of our signings, Zirkzee and Yoro were brought in very early. Earlier than most of our rivals did any business. De Ligt and Mazraoui in time for the start of the season. You may or may not have noticed, but there were two rather large international tournaments this summer, which heavily impacted most clubs ability to do business early in the window, and also meant players have come back late - needing rest - somewhat unfit and not ready to play.

Us starting the season with a “worse” midfield than this time last year is the result of years of bad squad building, not the result of not getting deals done fast enough this window. This window what was important was to (a) get the RIGHT players in for our long term success (accomplished), (b) not overpay for players and change the entire narrative about United being a soft touch in the transfer market, even if this meant protracted negotiations (accomplished), and (c) shift out unwanted and unneeded players (significant progress and ongoing).

To look at the success or failure of this window through the context of the first three games is just fecking daft, and the type of reductive thinking that makes clubs buy crap players just because they are easy to sign/available. The general barrel of shite we had available on match day one was a result of years of bad dealings, not the result of this window. We should go into next season with a much better starting squad now, that can add 2-3 players to go up another level.
Click to expand...

While I agree with the sentiment that we should look at signings such as De Ligt and Ugarte, or any signing for that matter, with a view to the long-term, the saving of 10 euros which seems to be sum actually saved by driving the hard line isn't that great of a sum when looked at in the long-term. I don't know the details of his contract but let's assume it's a 4 year deal...we saved 2.5mE over each year of his contract. That's not nothing, but it's not a lot either.

First, we all assume here that Ugarte is the right man for the job and will more than pay us back for the 50mE we spent on him. I agree with that assumption.

If a fully fit and in form Ugarte means the difference between defeating or being defeated by Liverpool, as well as Brighton, the 10mE the Glazers saved may not well have been good business. True, the outcome one game (actually two if we count Brighton, and possibly three as we barely scraped by Fulham but we did scrape by) isn't the end all, be all in judging the wisdom of holding out for a 10mE savings, but this isn't just another game and we're already in a bit of a hole after only 2 PL games. Speculation only, but I speculate we would not have dropped three points to Brighton had we had Ugarte. And sticking with speculation, I speculate that Ugarte makes the difference between the likelihood of United defeating, rather than losing to, Liverpool this weekend.

But if I'm wrong about that, that having Ugarte fit and in form for Brighton and Liverpool makes no difference as to whether or not we would have lost to Brighton anyway and probably get thrashed by Liverpool, then I'm wrong about that, but then we might want to question why we're spending 50mE on a player which does not materially improve our ability to control midfield, a universally acknowledged weakness in our play.

However, here we are and the Glazers did save 10mE by holding out to the last minute in buying a player the manager desperately wanted and which nearly every one of us here, myself included, believes will substantially improve our ability to control midfield and shield our back line.
 
antohan said:
Heads up to all of you. Uruguay will be shite over this international week and it will have nothing to do with Ugarte.

A Nacional (URU) player died on Tuesday after he collapsed on the pitch during a Conmebol Libertadores game in Sao Paulo and then went into cardiac arrest during transport on an ambulance with no defibrilator or medic. Former teammate of 3-4 NT regulars who are of course devastated.

Conmebol's immediate and timely response was of course to issue their disciplinary decision on the Colombia game fracas. 5 games Darwin, 4 Bentancur, 3 for three of our back four while our RB is suspended from a red during Copa.

It will be a car crash, nowt Ugarte can do about it.
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I read about that yesterday - sad news.
 
simonhch said:
Making an investment worth 50m plus wages etc, should be looked at in the longer term, not through the lens of the first three games. Firstly Ugarte was at Copa, which meant it would always be a late signing, secondly the initial fee was 70m euros and we’ve gotten him for 50 plus 10. I would say that several weeks of negotiation, and not being available for the first three games, is worth the 10-20m euros saved. I think this is where being a grown up and professional is quite helpful when it comes to running a multi-billion pound organisation; and not being an over-excited couch muppet whose entire perspective of the future rests on a seven minute cameo at the weekend.

As for the rest of our signings, Zirkzee and Yoro were brought in very early. Earlier than most of our rivals did any business. De Ligt and Mazraoui in time for the start of the season. You may or may not have noticed, but there were two rather large international tournaments this summer, which heavily impacted most clubs ability to do business early in the window, and also meant players have come back late - needing rest - somewhat unfit and not ready to play.

Us starting the season with a “worse” midfield than this time last year is the result of years of bad squad building, not the result of not getting deals done fast enough this window. This window what was important was to (a) get the RIGHT players in for our long term success (accomplished), (b) not overpay for players and change the entire narrative about United being a soft touch in the transfer market, even if this meant protracted negotiations (accomplished), and (c) shift out unwanted and unneeded players (significant progress and ongoing).

To look at the success or failure of this window through the context of the first three games is just fecking daft, and the type of reductive thinking that makes clubs buy crap players just because they are easy to sign/available. The general barrel of shite we had available on match day one was a result of years of bad dealings, not the result of this window. We should go into next season with a much better starting squad now, that can add 2-3 players to go up another level.
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Great post. I’ve read about the Uruguay manager saying Ugarte having four lungs and being the fittest player he’s seen etc..and the romanticist in me wanted him to start. I fear for Sunday, no Mount, Casimeiro looking tired at Brighton. I hope Cas has the game of his life and wants to fight for his place.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Cavani was a success, the problem was doing everything to convince him to stay, only to find out a couple of weeks later we could bring in Ronaldo to play his position.

Is there any nation we have a better than 1 in 5 success rate with? I doubt it.
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Among the smaller nations, probably Portugal has served us best. Ronaldo, Nani, Bruno, Dalot, ...
lex talionis said:
While I agree with the sentiment that we should look at signings such as De Ligt and Ugarte, or any signing for that matter, with a view to the long-term, the saving of 10 euros which seems to be sum actually saved by driving the hard line isn't that great of a sum when looked at in the long-term. I don't know the details of his contract but let's assume it's a 4 year deal...we saved 2.5mE over each year of his contract. That's not nothing, but it's not a lot either.

First, we all assume here that Ugarte is the right man for the job and will more than pay us back for the 50mE we spent on him. I agree with that assumption.

If a fully fit and in form Ugarte means the difference between defeating or being defeated by Liverpool, as well as Brighton, the 10mE the Glazers saved may not well have been good business. True, the outcome one game (actually two if we count Brighton, and possibly three as we barely scraped by Fulham but we did scrape by) isn't the end all, be all in judging the wisdom of holding out for a 10mE savings, but this isn't just another game and we're already in a bit of a hole after only 2 PL games. Speculation only, but I speculate we would not have dropped three points to Brighton had we had Ugarte. And sticking with speculation, I speculate that Ugarte makes the difference between the likelihood of United defeating, rather than losing to, Liverpool this weekend.

But if I'm wrong about that, that having Ugarte fit and in form for Brighton and Liverpool makes no difference as to whether or not we would have lost to Brighton anyway and probably get thrashed by Liverpool, then I'm wrong about that, but then we might want to question why we're spending 50mE on a player which does not materially improve our ability to control midfield, a universally acknowledged weakness in our play.

However, here we are and the Glazers did save 10mE by holding out to the last minute in buying a player the manager desperately wanted and which nearly every one of us here, myself included, believes will substantially improve our ability to control midfield and shield our back line.
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If Ugarte would be worth 3 extra points against Liverpool then he is one hell of a signing and just think how many points he would be worth against lesser teams - all those other draws and defeats become wins. League title in the bag!
 
Geez we take our time…. No urgency whatsoever to get this done and have him available for Liverpool. Shocking to say the least. Let’s hope we get a result. Sunday in this doesn’t bite us..
 
simonhch said:
:lol: Fair play. You’ve taken that like a gentleman.
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Please tell me you didnt learn that phrase from Joss Whedon :boring:

lex talionis said:
However, here we are and the Glazers did save 10mE by holding out to the last minute in buying a player the manager desperately wanted and which nearly every one of us here, myself included, believes will substantially improve our ability to control midfield and shield our back line.
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Just as an addendum here, PSG wanted 60M fixed, and we agreed on 50M+10M addons. If Ugarte ends up being a success, we end up paying 60M anyway(which we'd be happy to ofcourse). Just saying best case scenario, we have not saved any money(on the long term).
 
I see people are stil getting annoyed about a fictional scenario where he was signed yesterday and played v Liverpool. Something that wouldn't have happened regardless.
 
MyBloodIsRed said:
Geez we take our time…. No urgency whatsoever to get this done and have him available for Liverpool. Shocking to say the least. Let’s hope we get a result. Sunday in this doesn’t bite us..
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We are signing him to play for the club for the next 5 years not just Sunday, chill out. He wasn't starting regardless.
 
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