Your words, not mine \/ \/
This is the second time you imply we should start Casemiro instead. Go on, say it then.
Doubt you will because you realise it's a stupid idea whatever the stat sites say.
25
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 32
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 10
Doubt you will because you realise it's a stupid idea whatever the stat sites say.
The point being made here is that unless Ugarte is exceptional in a defensive sense his ability on the ball isn’t really compensated for. If an over the hill Casemiro is a better defender, (and better passer) then he’s not contributing enough in the area he is supposed to excel.
Casemiro giving the ball away more is both a matter of being braver in what he tries and actually getting on the ball. Hiding from the ball isn’t helping you keep it.
Do you know what is a stupid idea? Debating an Uruguayan with you.
Yet you are talking of Ugarte like if he has been shyte and it's far from it. In a very unbalanced team he had been for moments great and in others at least good. There is not much to complain about the kid given the context and some of that stats brought have been to the very least misleading given how United currenty plays regarding its strategy and personel styles and atributes.
Regarding Casemiro, I'm really fond of that big Brazie and if he regains form, both can get along perfectly, compliment each other in great way, yet Case has been struggling with his fitness to gain his best form.
Last edited:
I’m not though, I’ve said he’s been ok this season for the most part. He’s blatantly limited though and I’m not sure he suits a midfield 2 for a top side.
Blatantly limited? come on, it's too much for my taste, seems that you have focused too much on some middle ground perfomance or expecting him to be Redondo. Yet to each to his own regarding taste.
What do you mean by a midfield 2?, him playing just with Bruno like against Ipswich? if that's the case, more than Ugarte not being a player that can play at United or any top side, its more of not knowing exactly what Amorin wants taking in acount the characteristics of Bruno and Ugarte leaving both alone there, that's not a recipe for having more control.
He clearly is playing in a Top Club and in his main role (DM) you don't need to be Mauro Silva alike to do you your work on any top side, yet you have to take in account the main traits and the lesser aspects of any player in such role to get the most out of it.
Last edited:
Which he is. Stats from a post I saw on twitter:
99th percentile tackles
99th percentile pressures
98th percentile pressure regains
92nd percentile interceptions
78th percentile dribbled past
That's by definition exceptional. He's a defensive output machine.
https://fbref.com/en/players/c9817014/scout/12524/Manuel-Ugarte-Ribeiro-Scouting-Report
That’s the Premier League this season. He definitely makes a lot of tackles. Pretty shit in the air and doesn’t make many clearances so still defensive deficiencies in there. His passing stats are dreadful though. The idea he isn’t limited is silly.
Yes. He’s blatantly limited to being very good at tackling. To argue otherwise is ridiculous.
I mean playing in a two man midfield at this level when you’re only really good at tackling. I think you need more to your game. As a third man, when you need to make loads of tackles he’ll be great. In a two man midfield looking to dominate, not so much.
It's not, he has been pretty good holding the ball and passing it, we've seen that in quite a number of games.
The problem in a 2 man midfield to gain control and passing a lot more, it's that you need more than just one partner in the style of Bruno, also a striker that knows how to play as a pivot and bring mids to the mix with his holding, you need at least a competent dribbler without a basket cube over his head to give air and that plays one/twos, a CB that more often than not can filter some level ground balls with advantage...etc etc...so right now it's not a Top Side issue for him, it's a United configuration issue if he doesn't see more of the ball as he was before.
There is some middle ground in considering him Mauro Silva alike with the ball, to considerate ridiculous that anyone here haven't seen him being pretty good passing it and holding it.
When you say his passing stats are dreadful do you mean the quantity (i agree, could do better) or the accuracy? (the guy regularly hits around 87/88% accuracy doesn't he- which is very good).
Look man, we’re in the Ugarte thread and so I’m going to give my opinion on Ugarte. At no point have I even suggested it’s near the top of the list of issues, so that point is irrelevant. In the Hojlund thread, I’ll talk about how much of a problem he is, same with Onana.
The eye test is pretty much the main reason I’m talking about this. I’ll use stats to back up what I think im seeing.
Mostly quantity but given how safe his passing is, I’m not sure the accuracy is anything to write home about.
Let’s stop discussing it, you don’t rate him, I do. Simple.
I don’t see the point of complaining about a player who’s doing the job he’s paid for.
Sorry to jump in but it really shouldn't be about complaining about the player as much as considering the planning behind the move, and where he fits moving forward.
Ugarte is an exceptional ball recoverer but at this stage is what he contributes actually making Utd better defensively, are his stats translating to defensive impact? Just looking at his PL starts, Utd have conceded 27 in 15 across those games, against 39 in 27 overall, so far there are no clear signs that he is highly impactful defensively purely on goal totals. Of course that is a very simplistic gauge, and he can't be blamed for others brutal errors, but we shouldn't fall into the trap of thinking that making a lot of tackles automatically makes you good defensively, after all as pointed out Cas has better stats in some of those metrics but is brutal with his lack of mobility for defensive structure. Like everyone else as the team improves what he does may start to bring more value.
Ugarte is rather one dimensional, ideally you would have more rounded players in key roles, having a squad full of players with obvious physical or technical deficiencies is the key problem that Amorin has. Ugarte would not be one of the main problems in that regard but he does have weaknesses that need to accounted for and it hard to see he and Mainoo for example ever being a natural partnership given their skillsets.
He needs to move the ball quicker, he doesn't give the ball away a lot but he needs to up the tempo of his passing, taking too many touches for my liking to then play a simple pass. He plays some very good switching passes at times but with how long he takes to play it they are quite easy to read and cut out, telegraphs his more ambitious passes. Speeding it up should be possible for him as he settles in the league.
I don’t think that stat can be used to say Ugarte hasn’t helped solidly midfield more, a lot of those goals conceded are individual errors by players not doing their job properly. Two at the weekend.
Again, I don’t see Ugarte as a problem in our current situation, if others do fair enough, but I’ll always disagree as we have so many more fires that need putting out first. Focusing on a players passing stats in individual games isn’t a way to confirm him effectiveness.
The second bolded point hits the spot, is it his fault that we’ve bought him to do a certain job and the majority of the rest of the team isn’t doing theirs to even a minimum standard? If they were Ugarte would be seen in a different light by a lot of people.
Man Utd 1:1 Fulham
New
He was ridiculously good in some of his 1 v 1 duels today but I think we saw with Cas that a DM needs a passing range as well, just gives far more variation to the build up play.
Yep. Wasn't impressed at all with the sub at the time but we definitely got the ball forward quicker when he went off
Given the recent good cameos from Casemiro, I think these two would work well in a 2 man midfield. Both have great range of passing.
Let’s feck Amorim off and go back to a formation that suits the players. Bruno ahead of them would be very good.
Let’s feck Amorim off and go back to a formation that suits the players. Bruno ahead of them would be very good.
Thought he alongside the rest of the midfield was outclassed by Berge
Totally agree.
Berge looked great. Worked his ass of and just does the simple stuff really well.
But it does help when when Fulham have a 3 on 2 advantage over United in midfield.
Puts himself about but he is limited on the ball. And does he not have the stamina to finish games?
Amorim mentioned that he takes a while to recover between games, plus he picks up loads of yellows so I think both these reasons are why he seems to get subbed a fair bit.
Sander Berge for £25m would've been a better buy than Ugarte for double.
It would be nice to live in a world where we buy central midfielders who are actually fantastic and comfortable on the ball. Who was the last? Herrera? Or are we going all the way back to Carrick?
For the love of good please buy a technically gifted centre mid this summer.
Ugarte has his uses but he is certainly limited on the ball - if we get good again (big if), he will be nothing more than a squad player.
It would be nice to live in a world where we buy central midfielders who are actually fantastic and comfortable on the ball. Who was the last? Herrera? Or are we going all the way back to Carrick?
For the love of good please buy a technically gifted centre mid this summer.
Ugarte has his uses but he is certainly limited on the ball - if we get good again (big if), he will be nothing more than a squad player.
He’s the least of our problems
The only issue i have with him is that he seems to pick up a yellow card in almost every match
The only issue i have with him is that he seems to pick up a yellow card in almost every match
Agree. Solid, reliable and Prem proven.
But no, we needed a fancy name that had played for PSG.
That was a bollocks yellow card yesterday though.
16 passes again yesterday.
It was, I was willing him not to make that tackle though cos I could see it coming
When I had suggested him, the caf thought he wasn't good enough.
Yep, I think we need to stop turning our noses up at players of that ilk… look at where we are in the table!
He is one of the rare players we signed recently that is performing exactly the same as he did with his previous teams, which is a sign that we did our due diligence on scouting for this one, for change.
Again we all knew that he was not a creator or had any attacking output, but his defensive stats are second to none in the league in his position, which is EXCATLY why we signed him.
Pair him with a solid passer on a double pivot and we would have a solid midfield two for years to come. And no, I don't think Mainoo in his current stance would be that.
Again we all knew that he was not a creator or had any attacking output, but his defensive stats are second to none in the league in his position, which is EXCATLY why we signed him.
Pair him with a solid passer on a double pivot and we would have a solid midfield two for years to come. And no, I don't think Mainoo in his current stance would be that.
Availability is the best ability and he has to be taken off most games because he is either on an early booking or cant play two games in close succession.
Agree. Zirkzee, Ugarte, De Light, Mazraoui, Yoro. Not one proven Premier League player there.
Could have bought some proven Premier League players instead. Solanke, Berge, Adam Wharton and Marc Guéhi come to mind.
overplayed and over-relied upon in his debut season, a sign of how dire our other cm options are.
I think he does the job he was meant to do VERY well. His stats are right up there with the best in the league. The problem is we don’t have anyone decent to parter him and the defence are two deep so he’s doing an awful lot of running.
More to come next season
More to come next season
He had a good run at one point, I’ll be honest I’d forgotten he existed.
He probably isn't good enough though.
Burnley were asking for about £10m more than what Fulham paid as well. Berge has also just turned 27, whereas Ugarte will be only 24 in April.
Berge would have been a decent stop gap signing for about £20m, maximum, as there's practically no sell on value if he flops. Ideally we should have signed them both and catapulted Casemiro into the sun! As it is, Ugarte is the much better long term prospect.
Can't believe there are people on here that would swap them. Madness.
I didn't say that. But I still think we should have signed him for that price, even as a stop gap. We seriously lack CMs and he would have put way more effort than Casemiro does.
If anything he’s performing better. His passing is better than advertised even though he rarely displays it, choosing to play the simple pass most of the time.
