Personally I think we saw his best for 1.5 years of the last 5. The rest reverted to type.
Manchester United view sidelining Marcus Rashford as key to cultural reboot
- Thread starter Attila
- Start date
I think you could make a fairly compelling argument that he was a very good player from 2017 to 2023, with one poor season following surgery. 20GA+ in every other season.
This seems implausible. As you say, we don’t know the details. To me, it seems far more likely that the club has just told him that he’s been sold and are trying to ensure he leaves Chelsea style, rather than he isn’t willing to work with the new manager.
That's mental, how bad is your memory that you think he's had one poor season?
He’s produced 20GA+ in the league three times. Out of 9 full seasons at the club. Soon to be 10.
Which seasons between 2017-2023 do you think were the bad ones?
He produced it in all competitions 4 times during that 3-5 period hence why I don't think it's an exaggeration (it is actually 30 contributions in 4/5 seasons if you include England!)
If that's not very good then what is?
22/23 - 39 goal contributions for United. 3 for England.
21/22 - 7 goal contributions for United. 3 for England.
20/21 - 34 goal contributions for United. 2 for England.
19/20 - 31 goal contributions.
18/19 - 20 goal contributions for United. 10 for England.
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Very good would be comparable to players on similar wages at other big clubs.
How about comparing his productivity with Kane, Saka or Salah?
I can’t be arsed trawling the the stats for loads of average to good PL attackers but I’d be amazed if the likes of Jota, Watkins, Solanke etc weren’t at least as productive as Rashford, despite being paid a fraction of his salary and mainly acting as supporting roles to legitimately “very good” players.
Kane, Saka and Salah are world class players so a step up from very good.
Feels like people are once again caught in the you're either the best player or you're crap argument.
The point you’re (deliberately?) avoiding is that Rashford’s salary and status in the team is that of a proper world class player. And that’s the lens through which his performances have been viewed. And you also can’t ignore his most recent two seasons. It’s crazy to try and pretend they didn’t happen. They’re the main reason we are where we are with him right now. If he’d kept up the productivity of his very best seasons we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.
His salary is irrelevant to the point I'm making if you've been following the debate that was initially posed and you'd also realise I'm acknowledging that 3-5 year period.
Well then I’ll leave you to it. Because I’m only interested in discussing the Marcus Rashford as the footballer he is right now.
His salary is pretty relevant, though. You can't discuss Rashford, or whoever, in hypotheticals. The problem in the post-SAF era is that United, whether we're talking about transfer fees or wages, aren't getting their money's worth back. Football obviously isn't the industry where you'd expect a near perfect success rate, but the previous management screwed things up royally. Even the so-called "United tax" is a self-inflicted malaise, just like the notion that the wage bill is a priori OK to be one of the highest in the world - because we're United - and not connected to the performances on the pitch. This isn't limited to Rashford, of course. If the argument is that his looming (?) departure should have been handled with more care and respect, i will agree. The club should be looking to make more positive "statements" (if that's what this is) than this. On the other hand, changes have to be made and Rashford has been one of the main beneficiaries of our previous "protect the assets" policy. How do the English say it? Sometimes you are the pigeon, sometimes you are the statue.
In all fairness, he was on course for a decent season in terms of output before we stopped playing him. He’s averaging a GA every 140 minutes which is easily 25/30 GA over a season.
Not really. Buying Antony and Maguire for 80m won’t make them play like some others sold for the same amount.
Rashford didn’t deserve that salary in the first place. Just paying him more than his worth won’t make him play any better than he’s capable of.
Marcus needs to get his ass in gear, pull his socks up and get on with it. Amorim is correct, We need him. We are a better team with Marcus on the pitch.
A contract is signed by both parties and they both bear responsibility for it. In Rashford's case the club has come under huge scrutiny because of it and those involved are likely gone. From the player's part, the spotlight is set firmly on him. Every action he does, every word he says, every time he doesn't perform on training or even fail to backtrack will be magnified and there will be very little leeway for him. That ain't personal. The likes of Sancho, Antony and Maguire had suffered similar treatment.
The club will suffer the brunt of such bad decision but don't think that the player won't get hurt by it or bears no responsibility for it whatsoever. There was a time in my life when I refused a better contract because I felt I lacked the skills and the mental condition to take more responsibility at the time. The result to that was more leeway, more time to learn, less pressure and a better CV because of it.
Let's not rewrite history just because of what's currently happening with him.
If 2018-2021 Rashford was playing for another club, everyone on here would've considered him 100 million talent and a dream signing, much like the likes of Williams, Kvaratskhelia, Wirtz, etc. are now.
Especially in Ole's two full seasons. He was in his early 20s and getting 25-30+ G/A in the Premier League and Champions League, whilst playing for just a top 4 contender side, whilst being a young English inside forward with lightning top speeds and acceleration, great power, great ball striking, great ball carrying ability, having that x factor, great big game record, etc. He also had a lot of flair to his game and wasn't just a player that maximized his game for efficiency but was otherwise arguably not that exciting to watch play.
If we compare him to Sancho, he's comfortably a more valuable profile and a miles better player, especially in those years I mentioned, and Sancho himself was considered a 100m+ player because he was a flat track bully in the Bundesliga.
If he was playing for a selling club or a mid-table PL team, and not a top 3 club in the world, he would've been held in the same regard during those years as most of the 100 million talents today. But United fans often don't realize what kind of players they have on their hands. Rashford in his best seasons at United, Pogba, Maguire under Ole, Bruno under Ole, Shaw in those seasons where he stayed fit and United had a half-decent team, these were some of the best players in their respective positions on the whole planet, but United fans love to abuse their best players for some reason.
I'm far from convinced by things Ineos have done so far but I think Rashford leaving is best for both the club and him. Something just ins't right and hasn't been for about 18 months. It's sad but I think he has to go - just don't let it be for peanuts... maybe a player exchange
New manager has repeatedly emphasised his players running and working hard. We know Rashford has refused to do that for years under various managers. Its not a stretch to imagine believing that Rashford feels he is above all that.
His output maybe ok, but his overall performances subtract to the team, not add to them.
So i assume you haven’t had enough yet and want to keep him
I think that’s a pretty big stretch. I seem to recall ETH making the players do some ridiculously long run after the Brentford match. Were there any suggestions Rashford refused to do that? Indeed, I can’t recall any suggestions Rashford has been a bad trainer historically, until this week. I saw some training clips in the week before the City game and I remember thinking it was pleasing to see Rashford laughing and engaged. He certainly didn’t give the impression of someone sulking or thinking it was all beneath him.
The reality is that none of us know exactly what’s going down. There were initially some suggestions of a fight in training, which made some sense, as I don’t for a second believe that Amorim really wanted to go into the City game without either of his two fastest players at least on the bench (bearing in mind how susceptible City can be on the break). Maybe Rashford has refused to apologise. Maybe there’s some other conduct issues we are unaware of. Maybe the club has just decided it’s imperative to get his wages off the books and thinks the best way to force him out is to ostracise him from the team.
Whatever the issue, it seems best if Rashford leaves. It doesn’t seem as though the situation is redeemable. I would like us to find a way to at least have him as an option in his remaining time at the club though. Surely he will be incentivised to show what he can do.
The idea that anyone can have watched Marcus Rashford play football for Manchester United over the last several years and conclude that it’s “a pretty big stretch” to suggest he isn’t putting in the level of defensive effort his manager wants from him in training is genuinely mind blowing to me.
If he makes up with Amorim and starts playing again, yes, I'll hope he can rediscover his form and have a suitable role in the team, because then we'll have one of the best wingers in the league playing in form for us again.
If not, and he's sold in January or in the summer, then I'll hope he joins a respectable club and rediscovers his form there.
It's that simple.
You’re judging him as a winger. He’s a wide forward, and as such he’s expected to score goals and press. I’ll be surprised if he’s in the team again before January window, but if he is then he needs to pull his head out of his arse and perform because if he doesn’t, I think we finally have a coach that will say thanks and bye bye to him
It should be an indication that he’s not performing well when he’s not being selected for the England squads after being the golden boy for a while
Saka and Sterling out for a while. Could Arteta be tempted?
C'mon Arteta, he will suit you, honestly!
He's not been deployed as a wide forward since the 22/23 season.
Reminds me a bit of the Brian Kidd situation when he was a player. Tommy Doc breezed in saying it was criminal that a player like Kidd was in the reserves. After a season, he shipped him off to Arsenal.
Well he’s certainly not playing like a winger since then either
Could see him enjoying London and doing well for Arsenal
Anyone care a quick read 
Prompted GPT with some questions based on what I remember regards how Rashford tends to score more goals the year before his contract is up for renewal
https://chatgpt.com/share/67699c02-c19c-8009-b2c4-8267e78c5a32
TLDr, yup, seems that way.
Note how GPT is very kind to Marcus in the conclusion
Prompted GPT with some questions based on what I remember regards how Rashford tends to score more goals the year before his contract is up for renewal
https://chatgpt.com/share/67699c02-c19c-8009-b2c4-8267e78c5a32
TLDr, yup, seems that way.
Note how GPT is very kind to Marcus in the conclusion
Remember the Ole "cultural reboot" that saw us sign Maguire and Wan B for 130million combined?
Most journalists are actively trying to put pressure on Amorim whilst making Rashford a martyr.
If you need any further proof who is the mole leaking club information to press....
If you need any further proof who is the mole leaking club information to press....
I remember it well - he always scored against us too!!!
Good times.
I think so too. I'd have no issue with him going there and if he hit some form and stopped Liverpool winning the title i'd be thrilled for him.
I remember the club touting the brilliant scouting process that saw us look at over 800 RBs and ultimately land on AWB as the answer.