He would have rage quit in 3 months max.
Manchester City under Pep Guardiola | Pep on City v Liverpool ref: "He likes to be special"
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Löw went exactly the other way from 2004-2016. Notable increase of possession elements over time.
Pepism 
With a bit of luck, he will be canonized as Pepito the first.
Leave the City fans alone! It was pouring down yesterday!If it's so exciting, why all the empty seats?
Not necessarily because the main "problem" Bielsa had with clubs was that they "lied" to him in term of investment amounts. In the EPL, he would have a lot of money so he could actually afford all the players he wants so... I would agree, Bielsa is a crazy horse but a damn genius one, the way he envisions football tactics is beautiful. And in the EPL, it could be great.
Yes it did.
If you're just saying Pep deserves credit for Germany's WC win because Löw copied some of his style, you might as well add Klinsmann, Heynckes, Biesla, Cruyff, Van Gaal etc etc to the quote, it's fecking ridiculous.
Löw won the World Cup because he had a bunch of World Class players in their primes, SIX of the 11 who started the final had sealed a treble win the previous season. Pep had feck all to do with it.
True, but not in the way of Pep, but more of Dutch school. I don't think it started from 2004 but after EURO 2008. I'll explain
Low & Klinsmann started from 2004 (after failed EURO. Taking shape in WC 2006) with the new Germany wave of more technical oriented players. They're less rigid, or static than the old typical German football. It's more expansive & attacking oriented, but not possession football. It's similar to England when they're a force & a transition team than a possession based. They used actual wingers, one central forward with a second forward, 2 holding midfielders... the second forward was allowed freedom & less defensive duty to support the main forward.
EURO 2008 they approached the game more conservatively. Instead of midfield 2 with a second forward, they changed to midfield 3. The midfield dynamic is similar we see teams often use around this time. 1 midfielder sit before the defense line & 2 midfielders work both defensively & offensively. No real no 10. The 2 winger are more wing forwards as they're allowed to move inside (off ball) more from wide position. They lost the final to Spain.
Between EURO 2008 & World Cup 2010, Barcelona dominated & LVG happened to come to Bayern & shaped the structure for possession football. Come World Cup 2010, Germany changed alot. They're now defending in numbers, slower build up so they can attack in numbers (total football principle). To achieve that you natural need to work on positional play to learn to keep & pass the ball better. Even forwards were asked to take part in defensive shape & building up. The exchanging role which you see in total football, defender step up becoming midfield with midfield step in to take the position. Midfielder move to wing with wide players move into midfield... It all started here.
Low tweaked & improved over the years based on Bayern system (the most balanced one is during Heynckes year where he find the balance between possession & direct football German players suited), but arguably they're more Dutch than Spanish, Pepism
as simply the nature of German players are different than the Latin counter part that Cruyff philosophy built toward. Pep is a student of Cruyff. He learnt from LVG who is the pioneer of (ultra) possession football (he improved upon the total football adding his pragmatic approach to boost possession stat). Pep adding idea from Bielsa who is pioneer in congest & suffocate opponent in their own half with their pressing. This is helpful to prevent back to back football game which favor athletic team (usually from Europe). Pep did bring his idea to Germany & they (Low, the other German coaches) exchanged with his idea. However, as it proved the Germany based on Dutch football had more influenced on Pep than the other way. Pep had to adapted his way more toward more direct football toward the end of his time at Bayern.Edit: One of the main flaw/ weakness of Pepism that is the use of no 9. He prefers a mobile modern forward who has play making ability & working outside the box alot. He didn't fancy Muller or Lewandolski that much. That may be what Germany wants to learn from him since they haven't produced a good old school no 9, but second forward. You know Low still called Podolski up at times. He was forced to try Gotze as false no 9.
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Cruyff says hello
bottom line.
pep had the best player and soon after the best team in the world and won some serious amount of throphies.
at bayern he had the best team domestically and won domestic trophies.
at city he inherited a top 5 team and is in the top 5.
he is a good manager, but apart from his "perfect-time-perfect-place-situation" in barca, he did perform rather average.
pep had the best player and soon after the best team in the world and won some serious amount of throphies.
at bayern he had the best team domestically and won domestic trophies.
at city he inherited a top 5 team and is in the top 5.
he is a good manager, but apart from his "perfect-time-perfect-place-situation" in barca, he did perform rather average.
That wasn't what I was saying. Read again.
I don't think it's only 'investment' that are the problem (though that was the problem for his last stint), Bielsa is very specific about what he wants from a club and makes it clear in his contract - and if anything differs from what was agreed, that's the end for him. I'm not 100% sure his style would work in the PL though I would be curious to see what he could do, in any case it's always interesting to watch his teams play. One of the reasons why I'll watch Lille next year a bit more often.
Pep owes all his success to Rijkaard anyway. Rijkaard built the Barca team's hunger for trophys by winning the CL, La Liga and copa with them in the 3 years before Pep took over.
A bit like Vialli taking over from Gullit.
A bit like Vialli taking over from Gullit.
Does that Milner foul on Sterling really only warrant a yellow under the new rules? While he probably was going for the ball, the foul denied an absolutely certain goal rather than just a good chance, seems daft.
True, but not in the way of Pep, but more of Dutch school. I don't think it started from 2004 but after EURO 2008. I'll explain
Low & Klinsmann started from 2004 (after failed EURO. Taking shape in WC 2006) with the new Germany wave of more technical oriented players. They're less rigid, or static than the old typical German football. It's more expansive & attacking oriented, but not possession football. It's similar to England when they're a force & a transition team than a possession based. They used actual wingers, one central forward with a second forward, 2 holding midfielders... the second forward was allowed freedom & less defensive duty to support the main forward.
EURO 2008 they approached the game more conservatively. Instead of midfield 2 with a second forward, they changed to midfield 3. The midfield dynamic is similar we see teams often use around this time. 1 midfielder sit before the defense line & 2 midfielders work both defensively & offensively. No real no 10. The 2 winger are more wing forwards as they're allowed to move inside (off ball) more from wide position. They lost the final to Spain.
Between EURO 2008 & World Cup 2010, Barcelona dominated & LVG happened to come to Bayern & shaped the structure for possession football. Come World Cup 2010, Germany changed alot. They're now defending in numbers, slower build up so they can attack in numbers (total football principle). To achieve that you natural need to work on positional play to learn to keep & pass the ball better. Even forwards were asked to take part in defensive shape & building up. The exchanging role which you see in total football, defender step up becoming midfield with midfield step in to take the position. Midfielder move to wing with wide players move into midfield... It all started here.
Low tweaked & improved over the years based on Bayern system (the most balanced one is during Heynckes year where he find the balance between possession & direct football German players suited), but arguably they're more Dutch than Spanish, Pepism
Edit: One of the main flaw/ weakness of Pepism that is the use of no 9. He prefers a mobile modern forward who has play making ability & working outside the box alot. He didn't fancy Muller or Lewandolski that much. That may be what Germany wants to learn from him since they haven't produced a good old school no 9, but second forward. You know Low still called Podolski up at times. He was forced to try Gotze as false no 9.
Conclusion.... LVG won the World Cup.
@ti vu
Cool that you bother to make such a detailed argument. Quite a few things I agree with, with some I'm not so sure. But sorry, it's just way too much for me to answer to.
But I have taken in what you wrote.
Cool that you bother to make such a detailed argument. Quite a few things I agree with, with some I'm not so sure. But sorry, it's just way too much for me to answer to.
But I have taken in what you wrote.
Well of course he is a genius and has had impact on modern football directly or through his influence on coaches. He is quite eccentric though and PL style of play and how games would have panned out early in his career, would have irritated him. Thinking about it, it also would depend on team he would have managed and expectations. For ex. LvG too is a genius but way the two seasons panned out for him compared to expectations, he is butt of jokes and called 'fraud' by many now. The media, of course doesn't help when a supposed genius is managing a big club.
Bielsa is going to manage the LOSC? Oh my God, that's a very interesting news. Anyway I like Bielsa because the way he pushes the pressing line to force the opposition defensive line to move backward is very interesting.
I would say Bielsa with a team that can invest could be very strong. Indeed, he's not very good with compromises, that's the only problem. But what if he was the one on charge, like a PL manager?
Would definitely be interesting, but I wonder whether clubs are sometimes wary to recruit him, he must be quite difficult to work with!
And yeah, he's taking over LOSC next season: there had been ongoing discussions for a while, it was rumoured he might take over as early as the winter break, but finally they've taken an interim manager, Franck Passi, who is close to Bielsa (they worked together at OM), until the end of the season. Apparently Passi and Bielsa are in constant contact and Bielsa had his hand in the big recruitment spree LOSC had in January. It's a firm commitment by Bielsa to manage LOSC, even if they're relegated apparently! Interesting times ahead.
Nah, only Simeone.
As for the rest of your questions...
1. I didn't find City's tactics bizarre. They got behind Liverpool's defense numerous times only to be let down by wasteful finishing.
2. I think he has been good. Not great, but good. He'll be the first to admit there is room for improvement. They are 3rd in the Premier League, after all. The last 16 exit is a failure, but that's the nature of knockout competition.
3. Too early to label him a success or failure at City yet. Come back after the end of next season.
4. I'm not attacking anyone. I just challenge bullshit when I'm arsed. And there's been a lot spouted in this thread about his accomplishments, stuff that usually isn't said about other managers. Apparently he's the only manager who's had world class players in his squad. And Rijkaard built the 2008-11 team, not Guardiola. And winning 3 Bundesliga titles (in a row) and making it to 3 semifinals is a failure. Actually, winning 6 league titles means nothing because none of them were done in the Premier League, the best and most tactical league in the world (insert trademark and copyright symbols here), a league so streneous that the teams in it can't muster enough energy for the CL...
Meh.
He has balls, that's one thing I admire and appreciate in Bielsa. And yes, even if LOSC is relegated, he would go for the team if he is convinced this is the place to work. I wish the LOSC the best, and I want to see Bielsa win a Ligue 1 with that team. Would teach a lesson to all those people criticising him.
If it's so exciting, why all the empty seats?
Good question.
I believe the seats are sold but not occupied. Maybe season tickets are too cheap ?
City have 44,000 season ticket holders I think.
True, but do you admit it is probably your weakest point? Stones is not Piqué
Ah yeah, that must be it!
Well there are clearly a lot of season ticket holders who for any one game are not turning up or passing their tickets on.
But you can continue with your childish joke
You do realise that there are empty seats at every ground for most games ?
True, but do you admit it is probably your weakest point? Stones is not Piqué
Oh without doubt, to be honest Sagna is the worst culprit, he put Liverpool through twice withing 3 minutes of coming on.
So we've been charged by the FA for failing to control or behavior around ref's again. I'd have no issue with this but certain teams are allowed to get away with it and certain teams not. They really should mic ref's and anyone except a captain who argues a decision or even debates it gets a yellow. Problem solved there and than in one quick swoop.
Pep needs to do a massive overhaul at the back and in the middle this summer. Apart from Stones, Dinho and maybe Kolarov and Kompany, i can't see who is staying.
Doubtful Kompany is staying either
I'm sorry but I can't understand why this wealthy club still has Sagna and Clichy part of the starting 11*
This team needs fresh blood: some players operate in slow motion.
*against Monaco for instance
This team needs fresh blood: some players operate in slow motion.
*against Monaco for instance
True, but do you admit it is probably your weakest point? Stones is not Piqué
Piqué is not Kohler or Scirea
Going off our current defence I'd say something like the following...
Zabaleta - Gone
Sagna - Gone
Clichy - Gone
Kolarov - Stay
Kompany - Gone (call it a hunch, maybe on a season long loan.)
Stones - Stay
Mangala - Gone
Denayer - Gone
Maffeo - Stay
Taking our squad as a whole I think the following will all move on be moved on (its alot)
- Hart - Pep doesn't rate him.
- Zab, - Age, pity as he's a City legend.
- Sagna - Age
- Clichy - Age
- Mangala - No words necessary
- Denayer - Hasn't kicked on playing first team either in Turkey or England.
- Komps - (loan)Injury
- Yaya - Cake, no really his legs are going. Still useful and I'd have kept him around. No contract talks say Pep doesn't feel the same. Hopefully the emergence of Aleix Garcia.
- Nasri - Drip doctors.
- Fernando - Doesn't play enough
- Navas - Sterling, KDB, Jesus and Sane can all play his position better than him, plus I think Pep will keep Patrick Roberts or maybe Moreno around next season.
- Nolito - Another hunch, his lack of playing time and constantly trying to get himself sent off doesn't help, but all the above for Navas can be used for Nolito, swapping KDB for Silva.
- Bony - Obvious, can't believe we replaced Dzeko with him.
- Iheanacho - (like Kompany an outside bet.) I just think Pep doesn't rate him the kid. Jesus, Kun and probably another striker for competition maybe even Unal who is scoring for fun in Holland staying around when he returns.
It can't be that many players, you're basically writing off another year to transition and players settling into the team / league. It would be a disaster.
Most them are out of contract and the club aren't moving on keeping them so I think their gone. 5 are already out the door, practically, Yaya is a goner and the front 5 are in an area we are already fairly well stacked.
Of those with decent contract lengths, Nasri, Bony, Denayer, Hart and Mangala are already out the door. We may not be able to move one or two on but I can easily see that many depending on what we can get for them. Iheanacho and Kompany are gut feelings.
Nolito isn't playing and seems to be completely gone from Pep's plans due to his temprement.
I genuinely think we're looking at 3 new fullbacks, at least 1 CB, 1 midfielder cause we can't rely on Gundo and a striker. So 14 out and 5 or so in. It will mean we'll be starting the season with Bravo and Willy in goal and a first XI of something like:
------------Bravo------------ (Pep is nothing if not stubborn, though I hope for a replacement.)
RB----Stones----Otter-----LB
-------------Fern-------------
----------Silva---Gundo-------
KDB---------------------Sane
--------------Kun-------------
Subs:
GK : Willy
RB : Maffeo or new RB
CB: Kolarov and new CB
LB: new/Kola
MC: Delph (will avoid the cull due to being english and not kicking up much).
MC: Aleix Garcia (think Pep will give him his chance, seems to rate him highly)
RW: Sterling/Roberts/Jesus
LW: Sterling/Roberts
Fc : Jesus or possibly a new CF if Pep really doesn't like Kun/ Unal
So thats 3 in defence, 1 in midfield and possibly a striker which will mean alot of adapting depending on how long the new fullbacks take to settle.
@padr81, what about Roberts? Heard great things about him.
He's got good potential and looks very good at times but he's being kept out of the Celtic team for the most part at the minute by some average enough players. He's a bit greedy on the ball and maybe doesn't work hard enough without it but I think a season at City will do him good, though I could possibly see him spending another on loan. Young wingers is one area we're not lacking in the club, we've got Jesus, Sane, Sterling, Roberts, Zinchenko and Moreno (later 3 out of loan) who are all highly rated. If only we could have the same depth with young talented centrebacks.
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Tbf that was mad shit
Our muppet signings this summer will literally be full-backs. Given how incapable our current lot are, and how important full-backs are to the way Pep plays if they aren't two of our biggest signings this summer I'd be amazed. It's been long overdue.
You need centre backs and central midfielders also
Do you think Pep is gonna give him a chance, at least until january?