No, but
Paulo Ferreira and Ricardo Costa on the bench
That Porto side was a great side, one of the 10 best in the world that season
Manchester City under Pep Guardiola | Pep on City v Liverpool ref: "He likes to be special"
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Paulo Ferreira and Ricardo Costa on the bench
That Porto side was a great side, one of the 10 best in the world that season
Two players. Costinha and Maniche never amounted to much, they actually went to Dynamo Moscow and a poor Atletico afterwards. McCarthy had maybe half good season at Blackburn a few years later, Derlei did not go anywhere and that Carlos Alberto kid who looked so impressive went back to Brazil, failed at Werder Bremen and then went on to play for about a dozen different clubs.
Carvalho, Ferreira and Deco were the only Porto players who enjoyed success afterwards.
How has a discussion about guardiola at City gone to rubbishing Mourinhos achievements with Porto?
Mourinho won the European Cup with Porto a side he built with players he motivated, the equivalent is for Pep to win it with a Benfica now.
Pep couldnt do it without the best 11 in possibly the history of the game - he has regressed every other club he's managed in the CL - both teams have been worse off with him in charge.
Pep being great is a fallacy, he had Spains golden generation + Messi (top 3 GOAT). I'd like to see somebody not achieve what Pep achieved with Barca - in the 3 years before Pep they had won 2 leaugues, 2 cups and a CL. Now tell me he DIDNT inherit a good team and built what he had....
Mourinho has achieved more than Pep and had it harder, whether you like it or not.
Mourinho won the European Cup with Porto a side he built with players he motivated, the equivalent is for Pep to win it with a Benfica now.
Pep couldnt do it without the best 11 in possibly the history of the game - he has regressed every other club he's managed in the CL - both teams have been worse off with him in charge.
Pep being great is a fallacy, he had Spains golden generation + Messi (top 3 GOAT). I'd like to see somebody not achieve what Pep achieved with Barca - in the 3 years before Pep they had won 2 leaugues, 2 cups and a CL. Now tell me he DIDNT inherit a good team and built what he had....
Mourinho has achieved more than Pep and had it harder, whether you like it or not.
Stop chatting bollocks. The likes of Maniche, Costinha, et al were hardly coveted before or after 2004, and even of the two players he brought with him to Chelsea, it was only Carvalho who you could argue became a truly world class player. Fereira was a decent full back, the archetypal PL fullback of that era.
I don't think anyone is rubbishing it at all. He built a great team there but they were far from average. It was a phenomenal win but to say his players were average is a joke.
As for your earlier post and the rest if this one it's biased shite, it's not worth responding too.
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Maniche was a top player, Fereira wasn't peak Daniel Alves he was far better than the archetypal PL full back. Deco, valente, Costinha, baia. Only their forwards could be described as average and they were easily CL level without being wc. Calling them journey men is chatting bollocks.
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Badly worded rushed half thought out post on my part. Should have read Portugal golden generation team of whom most were top European footballers
I am not hyping City. I am pointing to the groundwork that was done to give Pep a head start and how he hasn't been able to use that advantage fully vs Jose coming to a club that was in turmoil and has done relatively well. Jose is not an underdog, just a better manager as he can succeed when the environment is not perfect.
I think his fans themselves have realised he's(possibly) a fraud and therefore get upset when people keep pointing it out. Usually people who can never admit they where wrong. And many still genuenly do believe he's the best in the world.He didn't have anything near the quality of Barca's side in that Porto or Inter side.
Why do some people get so irate when St. Pep's credentials are questioned? It's weird.
We all question Jose's methods at times and rightly so. But when it comes to baldy, some around here seem to take it personally.
When you have been a big fan of someone for a long time, you tend to rationalise and defend everything he does no matter how bad it is.
I think people should allow him more time in PL to build his team before they can judge him properly though. Right now, I think everything points to him not really being what people thought he was.
He also took a team which had finished third the previous season and managed to win the treble with them. Messi was undoubtedly an incredible talent but it was under Guardiola he moved from being a top player with the potential to be the best to the very, very best in the world. Xavi and Iniesta were both fantastic, but again, it was under Guardiola they thrived and produced their best football.
He took some bold decisions when he arrived too: at the time Ronaldinho was still relatively young and could've hypothetically returned to his world beating form from two years before, but Guardiola decided he was finished and was proven correct. Similar can be said for Deco to a lesser extent. Meanwhile, he gave youth players who weren't expected to get much of a look in like Pedro and Busquets a chance, and both proved to be very useful assets for them, especially the latter. Similar can be said for him bringing back Pique from us.
Now yeah, anyone attempting to rubbish what Mourinho did at Porto is talking absolute nonsense, but similarly there's no need for us to pretend Guardiola didn't do an excellent job at Barca, however good a team he may have inherited. Both men are having struggles to replicate their best managerial form now but they're both among the best of this century thus far.
Good post.
Calling them great is also chatting bollocks.
They were top players. Wc? No. Easily better than most the current PL top 6 so yeah I'd say great players.
That's like saying Conte took a team that finished 10th and is winning the title. Barcelona finished 3rd because it was the end of the Rijkaard/Ronaldinho cycle, not because they didn't have the players
i can only laugh at this, honestly. I even get what you mean, and still, i find it a jokeThey'd just dominated the Euro Cup with Spain
He did no such thing. Guardiola made absolutely NO decisions on transfers in his first season in charge. He actually wanted to keep Dinho
Again, not his call
Again, not his call
Nobody's doing that
Off-course great players.
5 of those players were starters for Portugal in 2006, finished 4th. They may not have been great players, but together they certainly made for a great team. That Porto side wasn't Ancelotti's milan, but it was one of the best around at the time. And their biggest scalp was Man united. That was the only team better than them they faced in knockout rounds
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Don't get me wrong. Jose made that team and possibly made those players what they became. When I say great I don't mean wc or Hall of fame players I mean business end of the CL standard players
I don't think this is what Mansour had in mind. Pep has said himself that he will only stay at 1 club for a short time.
It's safe to say he was in discussions with City during his last year at Bayern. Wages, transfer budget & players needed would have all been on the agenda. City have bent over backwards to get him in. With the league as it was & the amount spent in the summer Mansour would have expected nothing less than the PL title & at least the QF in the CL.
They have got nowhere near to these targets & it's now 1 year wasted in a 3 year cycle.
There was no real finesse to the City plan. It was outspend everyone to cement a place in the top 4. Then get a top manager in to take you to the top of Europe. They didn't bring in Pep to be scrambling for 4th place & having early exits from the CL.
Hmm that's why Maniche lasted barely six months at Chelsea and was flitting in and around Russia afterwards. Costinha fell off the map. Likewise Valente. Baia was a Barca reject.
Honestly, stop digging in and doubling down on your falsehoods. It isn't becoming of an otherwise fair-minded and decent poster.
Well have to agree to disagree on this one because I genuinely believe that Porto side was class. Even if giorno is the only one who agrees with me. not knocking joses achievement there they were far from the best side in it but IMHO only marginally.
That Porto side was one of the best in the world that season, but that doesn't mean they had many great players. And they were one of the best in part because of mourinho
I think you'll find that Guardiola will be at City longer than you think, or rather longer than you hope. It won't be 10 years but it won't be his usual 3 either. Probably 5 which is plenty of time to stamp his own identity and get things right. There's not a chance Mansour is sacking him this season. If he can give Hughes almost 18 months despite us being nowhere near where we are now and not even being his appointment, it's fair to say Pep is safe for now. In fact, he has more power at City than he ever had at Barca or Bayern and that's down to the amount of trust the owner has placed in him, which I'm sorry to say is probably the worst possible news for you.
I agree, it's true that instant success was expected when he was brought in and he definitely hasn't done enough but I'm still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, to achieve something next season. Although, even if he doesn't improve next year, his fans will still find an excuse for him, no doubt.
This is great news..for Utd fans everywhere
Sadly though there's no chance Pep will be with you 5 years, as i think he could do some pretty serious damage to the club in that time span. He only managed relatively short stints at clubs where he had world class squads & little competition. He has achieved none of his targets for this season. You say he will stay at the club until he get's things right, what are you basing this on. He had the opportunity to extend at Bayern & finish the job he was brought in to do. Instead he put the feelers out for a better offer & scarpered.
I would be extremely happy if Mansour gives Pep all the power he wants, especially full control over transfers.
I hope what you say is true. Sadly though i think everything you stated will fail to materialize. The more likely scenario is that you don't win the PL &/or CL by his third year in charge & he fecks off to PSG to rebuild his image.
I hope he stays indefinitely.
One season and people have written Pep off here? Or just a handful? I don't know. On the same grounds Mourinho is really struggling, given you're behind City in the league.
I think in his first season Pep has injected some energy, pace and youth into the side. It's a learning curve and we can now easily see that there's a group of players in the squad who aren't capable of playing this type of football. I fully expect that to be addressed in summer (most notably two new fullbacks, a new CB, and a new keeper). If we do that we're in great shape as a squad for Pep, and it seems silly to write him off. Maybe next season will prove me wrong.
I think in his first season Pep has injected some energy, pace and youth into the side. It's a learning curve and we can now easily see that there's a group of players in the squad who aren't capable of playing this type of football. I fully expect that to be addressed in summer (most notably two new fullbacks, a new CB, and a new keeper). If we do that we're in great shape as a squad for Pep, and it seems silly to write him off. Maybe next season will prove me wrong.
I dont think it's writing him off. It's more that he's been brought back down to earth and not heralded as a mesiah of football like he was on this forum. There was hot debate on if he was this amazing manager that could do anything with any team, or if. he was some fraud that got lucky with always having best players with the best clubs. It's probably somewhere in the middle. What you see is. probably relief on this forum that he wasn't all he was cracked up to be (which was alot). First couple games posters thought he would walk the league. But just like Jose he's having difficulties and still trying to figure out / fix the problem. I don't think he's written off as a great manager, he's just written off as the greatest manager the world has ever seen.
It's not one season though. His remit at Bayern was to win at least 1 CL, which he failed to do. In this respect you can call his last season at Bayern a failure. I think even most City fans would put this season down as a failure from Pep too.
You also have to consider some of the bizarre decisions he has made. Trying to implement possession football in the PL when LVG proved it won't work. He has a struggling defence & the club has a poor record on CB purchases. He proceeds to spend £50 Mill on a young CB with little experience. Bravo for Hart, enough said. He is now trying to change Aguero's game & responsibilities. This is like Tiger Woods implementing major swing changes when he was winning major after major.
I disagree that the problem is that his philosophy doesn't work here, otherwise Barca and Bayern would fail to continuously humiliate PL sides. It's 11v11 and the pitch doesn't change. For me it's about players like Clichy, Kolarov, Sagna and Otamendi (to name a few) who dont have the ability to play possession based football, or the ability to defend. Given that's almost our entire back line and his football starts from the back, it's easy to see why we've struggled this year. If he brings his own players in across the back and we still see the same struggles then I think I'll start to wonder.
You just confirmed what others are trying to say. It's not that the philosophy is useless, but it's ultra demanding. For it to work, you need the players. These players are harder to find. Unlike about a decade ago, most of the big teams seem to be in a transition period & they wouldn't let City having a free run at strengthening their squad. Great players in other system maybe irrelevant for this Pep's philosophy. And the more important is that Pep is a purist & he doesn't like to change the fundamental of his ideas to help his players when they ain't having any of what he wanted.
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City have gone backwards under St Baldy.
So easy to play against - tactics are bizarre.
So easy to play against - tactics are bizarre.
Then they equalize.
Doesn't mean anything - they still stink.
Indeed!
No both should draw so that we can climb on them.
A draw will be better for us when we play them away . Liv play Everton next so a Derby again would be crunch for both again .
Loves a LVG style square peg in a round hole this bloke. City looked absolutely miles better when he put Fernandinho into CM and pushed KDB up and out right.
Wants to be too clever all the time.
Wants to be too clever all the time.
The Fernandinho one is definitely weird but I feel like De Bruyne in CM is really the only place they can fit him, Sterling is a better right winger in most aspects bar the crossing