I find it bizarre that youths who grow up in Western countries are able to radicalize to the point that they're willing to kill themselves.
Manchester Arena Bombing 22.05.17
- Thread starter VeevaVee
- Start date
The problem with this is the evidence and previous attackers show they are normally outcasts who get radicalised online and not in the mosques . I guess it would be a good idea in certain mosques where it's a known issue but a blanket surveillance is a waste of resources and doesn't help the whole integration argument.
Internally, we need to educate better, to integrate better, to show tolerance. Blaming groups only feeds the narrative and creates more radicals who feel they might aswel live up to the label. This is something we can all do.
For the authorities and media, target the organizations and the recruiters, and make the appeal less attractive. Don't let the story become a catalyst for others, turning them in to villains who can be looked up and used to inspire. Don't react and let them disrupt the freedoms we have achieved and attained over centuries in the air of combating them.
We can't ignore what's happening, but we have to be careful that any reaction isn't simply furthering the influence that this inhumane act has. On a personal level, go about your business and act normally, embrace and appreciate, don't hate and blame. It does no good.
Globally, we need to rethink how the West operates in middle eastern affairs. A much less active presence and definitely one of less violence, and ultimately less involvement. At the same time, it would be wise to encourage secular systems and find that balance to achieve influence through reason and not force. Religion and politics definitely need to unravel in the middle east though I worry how attainable this is anytime soon.
For the authorities and media, target the organizations and the recruiters, and make the appeal less attractive. Don't let the story become a catalyst for others, turning them in to villains who can be looked up and used to inspire. Don't react and let them disrupt the freedoms we have achieved and attained over centuries in the air of combating them.
We can't ignore what's happening, but we have to be careful that any reaction isn't simply furthering the influence that this inhumane act has. On a personal level, go about your business and act normally, embrace and appreciate, don't hate and blame. It does no good.
Globally, we need to rethink how the West operates in middle eastern affairs. A much less active presence and definitely one of less violence, and ultimately less involvement. At the same time, it would be wise to encourage secular systems and find that balance to achieve influence through reason and not force. Religion and politics definitely need to unravel in the middle east though I worry how attainable this is anytime soon.
Hope they are OK.
Surveys show that far more than 1% of the Islamic population of Europe have at least some sympathy with attacks on infidels. It's more like the situation among the Catholic population of Northern Ireland during the troubles: a small group of violent activists with varying degrees of acceptance or complicity among the Nationalist population.
As a practical instance, when Iranian mullahs issued the fatwa against Salman Rushdie in the 80s, pictures of the author were burned by Muslims all over Britain.
For many people this is not a nuanced topic with multiple facets and drivers worth understanding. It is simple. Build walls, ban travel, and close borders - problem solved for me and the problems caused for others be damned.
Agreed.
The communities are often so isolated that there is not much 'Western' about them apart from geography. Not that bizarre to me really, a failure of integration I'm sure.
I dunno. As the suicide figures show, a lot of young men are willing to kill themselves anyway in Western countries. I'd imagine the radicalisation is about channeling those impulses in a certain direction rather than engendering them from scratch.
I barely got any contact with the local community myself. I am married and when im not at work i am with my wife. Having said that i wont ever consider killing a bunch of locals for lulz. These people are sick and theor ideology is sick. If these people hate the uk so much then they should move elsewhere. No one is stopping them from doind so
I had an acquaintance message me today - 'hey, call him evil - because that's what he is...but no one who is willing to die for a cause can be a coward.'
Once I was done seething I told him - no...that's exactly what he is...a coward. There is NOTHING brave about killing innocent, unarmed people and children at that. A soldier knows what he's getting into...a police officer knows what risks are involved. A 8 year old going to a concert didn't sign up for ANYTHING.
He then said lets agree to disagree
Once I was done seething I told him - no...that's exactly what he is...a coward. There is NOTHING brave about killing innocent, unarmed people and children at that. A soldier knows what he's getting into...a police officer knows what risks are involved. A 8 year old going to a concert didn't sign up for ANYTHING.
He then said lets agree to disagree
that doesn't make it go away though - in fact it probably helps to ensure that it won't
the 7/7 berks were from Leeds & this one is from the M14 postcode isn't he?
are we turning parts of UK cities into something like East Berlin to help with this?
Rest in peace those who passed away, great to see that our city has responded so quickly, swiftly and positively, we definitely showed we're ready for these sorts of unfortunate attacks which is amazing and gives me huge confidence and reminds me of my general safety. Horrible events by horrible peopke, truly am praying for those affected.
Yeah but I could easily post verses which contradict every single line in that from the same book. The world would be a better place without religion. Fact.
We need to let these terrorists know that their actions will not change our way of life. So lets give up all privacy (particularly online), build walls, create travel bans and close borders. That'll show 'em!
Maybe we should rethink the way citizenship is given and is retained. Should that person still be considered as a uk citizen after what he did?
fecking hell. Welcome to 1984.
I had an acquaintance message me today - 'hey, call him evil - because that's what he is...but no one who is willing to die for a cause can be a coward.'
Once I was done seething I told him - no...that's exactly what he is...a coward. There is NOTHING brave about killing innocent, unarmed people and children at that. A soldier knows what he's getting into...a police officer knows what risks are involved. A 8 year old going to a concert didn't sign up for ANYTHING.
He then said lets agree to disagree
Honestly, that sounds pretty odd. I'd be thinking about reporting him.
Yes, and why not?
It's bewildering.
Even if they did have a police presence in every mosque in the UK, there's the opportunity to radicalise troubled young men away from the mosque in people's front rooms. I'd imagine that is where most of it takes place, in private.
Here's a thought.
How about we leave the word terrorist completely seperate from the word muslim? The attacker was a terrorist. End of story.
That was the hardest days work I've ever done, I know these kids weren't my relations but the emotional feelings when hearing the news made concentrating difficult.
I'm not really an emotional guy but when looking at the photo of the 8 year old child I had to fight to hold back tears.
I'm not really an emotional guy but when looking at the photo of the 8 year old child I had to fight to hold back tears.
For me, the problem is I don't interact much with muslims. I move among them, sit on the bus next to them, queue with them at checkouts, etc., but don't tend to hold conversations with them. A big part of that is because almost all of my conversations happen at work or in the pub - and I don't work alongside any muslims at the moment and they don't go to the pub.
That would be intellectually dishonest.
I had an acquaintance message me today - 'hey, call him evil - because that's what he is...but no one who is willing to die for a cause can be a coward.'
Once I was done seething I told him - no...that's exactly what he is...a coward. There is NOTHING brave about killing innocent, unarmed people and children at that. A soldier knows what he's getting into...a police officer knows what risks are involved. A 8 year old going to a concert didn't sign up for ANYTHING.
He then said lets agree to disagree
What 'cause'? You have been far too nice there.
And before you were old enough to do that there's a chance that any Muslim kids you may have otherwise grown up with and befriended were at faith schools with only other Muslim kids. That's not going to lead to a harmonious society, and it needs addressing. There are too many things keeping people apart and it leads to an "us vs them" mentality which is toxic.
Yep, but rampaging suicidal loons can be white christians in the US. No more or less difficult to understand but important to remember.
It's really not - they never fit in with our 'Western society' ideal anyway. Young adolescents committing such crimes feel rejected by society - sometimes they can't get a job because of their name, they feel like they'll never belong, and most of all they have a lot of problems to install the values of their religion into their current environment, which is a society that doesn't really take into account how those people should deal with that. The easy route out is radicalization in such cases.
And it's not only a problem with religion, i.e. Anders Breivik, numerous shooting incidents in the US and many other nutcases. You get them all the time in every kind of society,
Having been in Manchester since 5am this morning I'm totally overwhelmed with the kindness we have received from everyone.
Manchester is a beautiful multicultural city and attrocities such as this don't divide us they simply bring us closer. We are resilient, we are tough and we stand together side by side in the face of the even the most heartbreaking and mindless of circumstances.
We love MCR.
Manchester is a beautiful multicultural city and attrocities such as this don't divide us they simply bring us closer. We are resilient, we are tough and we stand together side by side in the face of the even the most heartbreaking and mindless of circumstances.
We love MCR.
Yep but we never heard the phrase 'Christian Terrorist' for the IRA. Similarly if a gay man is guilty of s crime we are iften told about his sexuality, but never even he is straight. It's subtle but real us and them.
Those who feel the breath of sadness
Sit down next to me
Those who find they're touched by madness
Sit down next to me
Those who find themselves ridiculous
Sit down next to me
In love, in fear, in hate, in tears
Sit down next to me
Those who find they're touched by madness
Sit down next to me
Those who find themselves ridiculous
Sit down next to me
In love, in fear, in hate, in tears
Good stuff, fair play to Manchester and you to see the positivity in the world, it'd be so easy not to.
BBC saying the bomber was a Man Utd supporter
Horrible, felt sick learning the news this morning on TV. Thoughts with the victims and their families. Be strong, this is such a challenging moment.
Only some of it. But all religion has that potential.
I had an acquaintance message me today - 'hey, call him evil - because that's what he is...but no one who is willing to die for a cause can be a coward.'
Once I was done seething I told him - no...that's exactly what he is...a coward. There is NOTHING brave about killing innocent, unarmed people and children at that. A soldier knows what he's getting into...a police officer knows what risks are involved. A 8 year old going to a concert didn't sign up for ANYTHING.
He then said lets agree to disagree
I find it a pretty pointless thing to focus on anyway. Looks more like the work of somebody suffering from a mental illness, not somebody concerned with what the definition of 'coward' is.