Manchester Arena Bombing 22.05.17

Zii said:
But when it continually stems from one area we should be discussing it. Fact is it is almost nearly always Muslims that have been taught to hate. We should be allowed to discuss that without being labelled as "racist" or "bigoted ".

A little girl is dead because some guy had a fecked up view of religion, we should be talking bout it
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Hope you have some substantive quantitative evidence from accepted neutral sources to back up such a claim. I'd really love to see such evidence.
 
Vato said:
I have an 8 year old daughter, this is so incredibly sad. Words fail me right now.

These ISIS feckers really need to be wiped out. They are proud to claim attacks on children, I just can not wrap my head around it. Soldier eh? Yeah, you must be so brave to kill kids..

Why is the world just watching? More efforts need to be done to end this madness.
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You have be insane to kill kids. That's what we're dealing with.

No different than the nutcase American that runs into a movie house and shoots all around him.
 
Zarlak said:
It doesn't continually stem from it at all and not all Muslims have been taught to hate, what a stupid statement. This is the reason it's labelled as racist or bigoted because it simply isn't true.

The key part of your post is the guy was fecked up.
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I never said all Muslims have been taught to hate. Don't alter my words and label me as a racist.
 
Tosicsleftpeg said:
Why are the vast majority of these attacks perpetrated by Muslims or those recruited by Muslim groups using their religion as a reason for carrying them out?
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Because it's a handy excuse. Answer this question honestly. If 99% of people follow something correctly and 1% doesn't, which is more likely that the issue is with the 1% or that the issue is with the thing that 99% of people follow correctly? The answer is fairly obvious, though you probably won't want to admit it because it flies in the face of your preconceived notions. It really is rather simple.
 
Zii said:
I never said all Muslims have been taught to hate. Don't alter my words and label me as a racist.
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I didn't alter your words at all, it's more likely that you phrased what you were trying to say incredibly poorly because there's no other way that your sentence can really be taken. "Fact is it is almost nearly always Muslims that have been taught to hate" The term Muslim applies to all of them and describes all of them as a general populus, just as 'it's always English that' would encompass me as well as everyone around me in general. I'd imagine you most likely used it because saying 'fact is it's almost nearly 1% of Muslims that have been taught to hate' would make you realise that your point was invalid.
 
sammsky1 said:
Hope you have some substantive quantitative evidence from accepted neutral sources to back up such a claim. I'd really love to see such evidence.
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Are you trying to deny the fact that most of the recent terror attacks that are linked to extremists and religion? Man I swear people must like these attacks the way they defend them.

Can't talk about anything without having someone label you as racist or getting all smarmy.

Children died because of a religious viewpoint that's a fact
 
Zarlak said:
I didn't alter your words at all, it's more likely that you phrased what you were trying to say incredibly poorly because there's no other way that your sentence can really be taken. "Fact is it is almost nearly always Muslims that have been taught to hate" The term Muslim applies to all of them, most likely because saying 'fact is it's almost nearly 1% of Muslims that have been taught to hate' would make you realise that your point was invalid.
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You have zero comprehension skills move along
 
I guess having this thread to stick to the topic of what happened last night was too much to ask anyway.
 
Zii said:
Are you trying to deny the fact that most of the recent terror attacks that are linked to extremists and religion? Man I swear people must like these attacks the way they defend them.

Can't talk about anything without having someone label you as racist or getting all smarmy.

Children died because of a religious viewpoint that's a fact
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No they died because a person strapped explosives to themselves and blew themselves up in an arena lobby. Their religion, whilst not my cup of tea, is secondary to insanity that it takes to perform such an act.
 
Zarlak said:
Because it's a handy excuse. Answer this question honestly. If 99% of people follow something correctly and 1% doesn't, which is more likely that the issue is with the 1% or that the issue is with the thing that 99% of people follow correctly? The answer is fairly obvious, though you probably won't want to admit it because it flies in the face of your preconceived notions. It really is rather simple.
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I think the real issue is that the 1% that you mention interpret the beliefs of that demographic in such a way that they are able to legitimise the mass murder of innocent people and label them as targets to be eliminated in the name of God. Obviously not all Muslims are terrorists it bad people in the slightest but it's telling that the vast majority are of a Muslim faith.
 
Vato said:
I have an 8 year old daughter, this is so incredibly sad. Words fail me right now.

These ISIS feckers really need to be wiped out. They are proud to claim attacks on children, I just can not wrap my head around it. Soldier eh? Yeah, you must be so brave to kill kids..

Why is the world just watching? More efforts need to be done to end this madness.
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Seeing posts like this genuinely blow my mind. You do realise, like im talking millions of families, women and children have been displaced from their homes because they have been completely destroyed, families torn apart, ravaged, killed, all on the hands of our government and others. Like do you not see that and think the same or its fine because they must all be terrorists? Im genuinely curious as to whether you know this is happening or do you think that its all good or something. I just dont know anymore lol. Like, dont get me wrong, whats happened yesterday is disgusting but open your eyes and look at the world mate. This is happening on a MUCH larger scale and we are basically doing the same thing on a much larger scale in countries across the world. Lets just be real for a second and understand this. We are all humans, no matter where we are from. The world is bonkers lol.

Yes the world is watching and no one give a hoot about them. Some random psychopath blows himself up does not justify this and never will. End of.
 
Anyone from Manchester that knows where people are leaving flowers for the victims? An specific adress? Me and the wife would like to use a service and send some.
 
Kentonio said:
You clearly havent taken a look at the numerous African Christian countries where exactly the same things (and worse) are happening.
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You're preaching to the choir here, just because I criticise Islam doesn't say I'm not critical of all organised religion.
 
I'm abroad. Just heard about the tragedy. This has hit me hard. I love Manchester.

Lost for words!
 
Tosicsleftpeg said:
I think the real issue is that the 1% that you mention interpret the beliefs of that demographic in such a way that they are able to legitimise the mass murder of innocent people and label them as targets to be eliminated in the name of God. Obviously not all Muslims are terrorists it bad people in the slightest but it's telling that the vast majority are of a Muslim faith.
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You're right, the issue is that the 1% are fecked up and interpret something incorrectly. That is the issue. That is the entire issue, that the 1% have issues with how they interpet things. This does not mean that the issue is the religion. You simply can't fathom the number of people who would have to act in the same way for it to indicate that the issue is the religion. Something churning out 1% of arseholes is nowhere near 'breeding hate and senseless murder' like you said. You'd have to see 1-2 billion Muslims engaging in the same behaviour to use that kind of terminology, which is why I said it was bollocks. It was nothing but baseless exaggeration and it does nothing to further the cause all it does is churn out racists who end up believing in this rhetoric and we get nowhere.
 
Minimalist said:
No they died because a person strapped explosives to themselves and blew themselves up in an arena lobby. Their religion, whilst not my cup of tea, is secondary to insanity that it takes to perform such an act.
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Maybe semantics, and I agree with what you're saying, but I don't think it's insanity. It's a collective hatred. We see it all the time on a far lesser scale. When it's done s as part of a large group and as part of some kind of 'movement', whatever that may be, it can really stir up a fire in people and then they're ripe for further brainwashing.
 
Tosicsleftpeg said:
Everyone banging on about Islam not being to blame... But it is. Pretty simple isn't it really, almost every attack is perpetrated by Muslim extremists so I'm going to go ahead and say there is some connection.
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That's a very simplistic way of looking at it.
You often hear these terrorists were drug dealers, robbers etc until very recently.
Very unislamic don't you think?
 
Zii said:
Are you trying to deny the fact that most of the recent terror attacks that are linked to extremists and religion? Man I swear people must like these attacks the way they defend them.

Can't talk about anything without having someone label you as racist or getting all smarmy.

Children died because of a religious viewpoint that's a fact
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Must be nice to not have your community pathologised and demonised via a hegemonic lens because of the actions of a few.
 
Sultan said:
I'm abroad. Just heard about the tragedy. This has hit me hard. I love Manchester.

Lost for words!
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Hope you're not personally affected in any way.

Its sickening. I feel your pain.

Hope all is well on your charity mission
 
Why do all you wankers use these occasions to start debates on cultural, political and civil issues? Like this is the moment to do it, or the thread.
 
decorativeed said:
You seem to be confusing past, present and future. You can't arrest people for something they haven't done yet. Often, someone commits an awful crime like this and we hear that police are aware of them. If that person had committed a crime, then they would have been arrested, but often the first time the police have cause for arrest is when they actually do something like this. We don't hear about many of the other attacks the police foiled, but one came to light recently where they prevented a planned attack on the other side of the gardens from the arena. Where and when they have the chance to make an arrest and put a case together, they do, but they cannot arrest someone out of suspicion they may do something in the future or because they have an ideology, no matter how extreme.
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Hence why I believe further legislation is needed to punish those supporting such groups to pre-empt this type of crime. Carrying a knife is a punnishable criminal offense and interacting with Jihadi media should be a similar offense.

There is already anti-terror laws and whether these need to be enforced or extended to give the police the upper hand I'm unsure. I had some misguided friends who were held under police custody because of some pro-Jihad literature they held. Maybe this needs to be enforced to a greater degree. Once someone is caught with such literature, having them electronically tagged and regularly raided with a 3 strikes and jail for any repeated offenses of Jihadi type media on any device.

Whether the funding is in place to police this though is another matter.
 
Zii said:
Are you trying to deny the fact that most of the recent terror attacks that are linked to extremists and religion? Man I swear people must like these attacks the way they defend them.

Can't talk about anything without having someone label you as racist or getting all smarmy.

Children died because of a religious viewpoint that's a fact
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Yet another horrendous, baseless and Inflammatory comment.

You really need some better education on this subject. Seriously.
 
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Fund raiser at Stage and Radio (Tuesday until midnight(ish))
Denis79 said:
Anyone from Manchester that knows where people are leaving flowers for the victims? An specific adress? Me and the wife would like to use a service and send some.
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There's a vigil at the Town Hall tonight mate. 7pm apparently. Saw a status saying flowers and candles etc welcome.

ITV also posted that they're being laid near the Arena.

Did a Facebook search to see if there was any more info and there was some kind of van club looking to arrange driving around handing flowers out of their vans, which I thought was pretty awesome.

While we're here:

Some friends of mine are running a fund raiser at Stage and Radio (Northern Quarter) tonight for the victims and their families. Drinks and DJs and collections (money for families, and I think food for the NHS too). They're also giving free pizza out to emergency services and NHS staff until 9pm. It may not be much but it's a small thank you @TheReligion


Please give it a share and click 'going' even if you can't make it, as it helps get the word out.
https://www.facebook.com/events/1853713074870573/?acontext={"ref":"3","ref_newsfeed_story_type":"regular","feed_story_type":"263","action_history":"null"}


Edit: I've just seen there's also an MEN fund running online for anyone that would like to donate https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/westandtogethermanchester
 
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Lowkey said:
Seeing posts like this genuinely blow my mind. You do realise, like im talking millions of families, women and children have been displaced from their homes because they have been completely destroyed, families torn apart, ravaged, killed, all on the hands of our government and others. Like do you not see that and think the same or its fine because they must all be terrorists? Im genuinely curious as to whether you know this is happening or do you think that its all good or something. I just dont know anymore lol. Like, dont get me wrong, whats happened yesterday is disgusting but open your eyes and look at the world mate. This is happening on a MUCH larger scale and we are basically doing the same thing on a much larger scale in countries across the world. Lets just be real for a second and understand this. We are all humans, no matter where we are from. The world is bonkers lol.

Yes the world is watching and no one give a hoot about them. Some random psychopath blows himself up does not justify this and never will. End of.
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What the actual feck?

Do you see individuals over here being happy when any western goverment bombs a hospital in the middle east? Of course we know these horrible things happen but I hope nobody approves this.

The nutjob who bombed a concert full of young kids yesterday has the whole so called caliphate supporting him. Are you going to deny any of that?

I honestly fail to see what your point is.
 
My deepest condolences to the people of Manchester and all those directly hurt by this.
 
simonhch said:
Why do all you wankers use these occasions to start debates on cultural, political and civil issues? Like this is the moment to do it, or the thread.
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It's possible to feel remorse & empathy, and also debate ignorant generalisations at the same time.

Such rhetoric has only been normalised because these debates weren't had in years & incidents gone by.

Pink Moon said:
What about demonising it because of the verses in it's holy book? Is that okay?
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Which holy book? Similar verses can be found in Christianity also, but we don't chastise Christians for their 100s of years of terrorism.
 
VeevaVee said:
There's a vigil at the Town Hall tonight mate. 7pm apparently. Saw a status saying flowers and candles etc welcome.

ITV also posted that they're being laid near the Arena.

Did a Facebook search to see if there was any more info and there was some kind of van club looking to arrange driving around handing flowers out of their vans, which I thought was pretty awesome.

While we're here:

Some friends of mine are running a fund raiser at Stage and Radio (Northern Quarter) tonight for the victims and their families. Drinks and DJs and collections (money for families, and I think food for the NHS too). They're also giving free pizza out to emergency services and NHS staff until 9pm. It may not be much but it's a small thank you @TheReligion


Please give it a share and click 'going' even if you can't make it, as it helps get the word out.
https://www.facebook.com/events/1853713074870573/?acontext={"ref":"3","ref_newsfeed_story_type":"regular","feed_story_type":"263","action_history":"null"}
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Thank you! We are in Sweden so we can't attend but we'll send some flowers atleast. I hope all affected find the strength needed to get through this...
 
Bloedrood said:
So? Do you hear me say Christians haven't done bad things? Can't change the past, but this is happening now, in a country that has the biggest muslim population in the world. Where high ranked government officials are saying homosexuality is worse than the atom bomb, homosexuals are arrested and beaten by mobs, and today some were beaten with sticks on public display by the local government.

Now if you want to argue that Christianity was/is backward too then I'm not even going to disagree really, but I'm fine with it as long as other people don't get hurt anymore because of it.
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You realize that homosexuals are not just suppressed in countries with a majority muslim faith right while we speak.
 
Denis79 said:
Anyone from Manchester that knows where people are leaving flowers for the victims? An specific adress? Me and the wife would like to use a service and send some.
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Likewise anyone know of a London based vigil? I'd like to attend if anyone knows?
 
vi1lain said:
It's possible to feel remorse & empathy, and also debate ignorant generalisations at the same time.

Such rhetoric has only been normalised because these debates weren't had in years & incidents gone by.



Which holy book? Similar verses can be found in Christianity also, but we don't chastise Christians for their 100s of years of terrorism.
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That's whataboutery. I'm not religious in the slightest. Think the world would be a far better place without religion so I've no reason to defend Christians either. The discussion isn't about them though.
 
Zarlak said:
It doesn't continually stem from it at all and not all Muslims have been taught to hate, what a stupid statement. This is the reason it's labelled as racist or bigoted because it simply isn't true.

The key part of your post is the guy was fecked up.
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Religion is a uses and gratification, where people generally take what they want from it. So yes many muslims aren't violent because they don't want to be. But within Islam there can be found justification within Muhammad's life for the acts ISIS, Al Queda and other terrorists commit. From mass murder, to rape to enslavement, old Mo did it all according to his earliest biographies. However peaceful Muslims choose to consider these stories to be fabricated based on the fact they believe Muhammed to be perfect.
 
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