Manchester Arena Bombing 22.05.17

Danillaco said:
Sweden has no go zones and this year a guy hijacked a truck and butchered five people, Berlin had a similar attack, the Bastille Day attack at Nice was disgusting with more the 80 murders. London has mainly muslim neighborhoods with sharia police, Paris had extremists rioting and using Molotov on policemen, terror attacks skyrocketed throughout Europe and there is one common factor in the massive majority, if not all of them. Islam extremists.
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Half of this is untrue
 
Danillaco said:
I'm from Brazil, and we are a very diverse place, with a small muslim community.

You rarely see terror attacks here (few weeks back, there was a Syrian who threw a bomb in a protest, but was quickly arrested, and some years back a guy converted to Islam, went to a school and shot a bunch of children, in the Massacre of Realengo). You don't see marches in favor of Sharia, to defend hijab, or being harassed in the streets for not dressing by some standards written in the book (although, there are some people that try to shame others, but it's ridiculed). You see mostly muslims fitting the culture, not trying to change it, or dominate it. I had very few openly muslim friends, and those guys were crazier than me, in a good sense. The little contact I had showed me no difference between us.

I don't know if extremists don't get a turn here because we are a very open and violent country, or because their intolerance wouldn't fly here.

I agree that giving too much exposure to terrorist is falling to what they wish, spread fear and show the power to punish the infidels. But seeing what happens in Europe, I often wonder when will be enough?

Sweden has no go zones and this year a guy hijacked a truck and butchered five people, Berlin had a similar attack, the Bastille Day attack at Nice was disgusting with more the 80 murders. London has mainly muslim neighborhoods with sharia police, Paris had extremists rioting and using Molotov on policemen, terror attacks skyrocketed throughout Europe and there is one common factor in the massive majority, if not all of them. Islam extremists.

I know there are lots of muslims here, and most if not all condem this kind of attitude, I assume. With the attacks being more constant, where do you think the relations in Europe will head?
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Although the trolly hijacker was from Uzbekistan, the insane extremists that are under the radar of the Swedish Security Police are born and raised in Sweden. It is mostly due to an integration problem here, but can't really speak for the situation of other countries. It is sad, because these tragedies gives fuel to the foreign-adversial propaganda for a certain political party. Considering the "No-go-zones" in Sweden - ehm, what?
 
2cents said:
The identity has to be released. Everything has to be transparent in these cases. Imagine if these type of attacks increase to the point where you've maybe a dozen every year, and the authorities refuse to release names or anything - people would go absolutely nuts understandably thinking there's something sinister going on. All the details need to be made known to the public IMO.
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The thing is if the attacker is related to a terrorist group, they will release the name through their own methods. This will then get around to their target audience. So I am not really sure that withholding the name from the mainstream media is really going to prevent future attacks. Even a lone wolf inspired by some terror group will probably be found out by these groups and used by them for their own propaganda purposes.
 
Unlikely lad said:
In the West, this should be the priority in the long term. I understand people wanting more money spent on security and more snooping etc, but education, integration (which doesn't only apply to foreigners, but British citizens as well), and the culling of extremist/radical preachers in the country should be really targeted. I have no idea how much is being invested in these.
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Spot on, I've argued for this myself. The only way we will ever see and end to this cycle is through education. Educating leads to understanding the world and eachother, understanding other religions, beliefs and cultures. It would help integrate societies and when extremists try to recruit to their cause the things they preach would fall on deaf ears. The first reaction of retaliation is nothing but understandable, especially after something like this but hate will only breed hate and we will never see an end to horrible events like this.

My condolences to the families and friends affected by this cowardice act. I hope they find the strength and courage needed in this terrible time.
 
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@Danillaco

I can't answer your question where Europe is heading to. All I can tell you that in Gemany, I see a lot of violence from alt-right Germans who proudly pretend to defend Christianity towards muslims and/or refugees. This includes attempts to burning their apartments down while they are asleep. And I know many muslims with different roots (in the sense where their parents or grandparents are from) who are as friendly, tolerant, open etc as you want pals, neighbors or co-workers to be.

IMO, extremism must be tackled regardless of who is committed to and why. From the far-left to far-right, from islamists to Christian fundamentalists. No type of extremism is *better* or *worthier* than the other one.

It's not faith that determines whether people act as despicable feckers. That's an excuse and an injustice to millions if not billions of totally peaceful people of the very same religion.
 
I saw the official Man Utd twitter flooded with tweets on this and I thought something happened at Old Trafford, just realized it was an explosion at Manchester Arena, was so worried as I had a mate who was supposed to be there for a concert but thankfully, he's safe. This is absolutely sickening, why is this such a regular occurrence in Europe?!
 
Danillaco said:
I'm from Brazil, and we are a very diverse place, with a small muslim community.

You rarely see terror attacks here (few weeks back, there was a Syrian who threw a bomb in a protest, but was quickly arrested, and some years back a guy converted to Islam, went to a school and shot a bunch of children, in the Massacre of Realengo). You don't see marches in favor of Sharia, to defend hijab, or being harassed in the streets for not dressing by some standards written in the book (although, there are some people that try to shame others, but it's ridiculed). You see mostly muslims fitting the culture, not trying to change it, or dominate it. I had very few openly muslim friends, and those guys were crazier than me, in a good sense. The little contact I had showed me no difference between us.

I don't know if extremists don't get a turn here because we are a very open and violent country, or because their intolerance wouldn't fly here.

I agree that giving too much exposure to terrorist is falling to what they wish, spread fear and show the power to punish the infidels. But seeing what happens in Europe, I often wonder when will be enough?

Sweden has no go zones and this year a guy hijacked a truck and butchered five people, Berlin had a similar attack, the Bastille Day attack at Nice was disgusting with more the 80 murders. London has mainly muslim neighborhoods with sharia police, Paris had extremists rioting and using Molotov on policemen, terror attacks skyrocketed throughout Europe and there is one common factor in the massive majority, if not all of them. Islam extremists.

I know there are lots of muslims here, and most if not all condem this kind of attitude, I assume. With the attacks being more constant, where do you think the relations in Europe will head?
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Countries with a large Muslim population have more chances in having bad apples and the fact they are in large numbers takes more time for them to assimilate with the local culture if ever they do, plus the fact they aren't that far from the Muslim countries. Here in the states I see the same pattern with the Hispanic population, they live in large numbers in the cities and they don't assimilate the local culture and in some cases they are born in US and they don't speak English until they go to school. The Puerto Ricans are the exception I know a few and they don't speak Spanish.
 
lynchie said:
The things in bold are wrong.
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Are they? The Tim Poole vídeo at Ringkeby, if I remember right, was quite bizarre. Swesish authorities said that there no "no go zones", but problematic areas. The video speak for it self.

I remeber seeing a video on CNN about that in London, but found this about Germany: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/21/germany-sharia-police-court-ruling

Here BBC said 2015 had the most attackings in history, but maybe is my perception but the attacks are getting more and more frequent. Maybe it's me
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36845647
 
My regret is that this particular piece of scum didn't die a long...slow...lingering...painful death from his own injuries as some of his victims no doubt did.
 
JustAFan said:
The thing is if the attacker is related to a terrorist group, they will release the name through their own methods. This will then get around to their target audience. So I am not really sure that withholding the name from the mainstream media is really going to prevent future attacks. Even a lone wolf inspired by some terror group will probably be found out by these groups and used by them for their own propaganda purposes.
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Yeah, the identity will always get out one way or another.

For me in any case, the thought of anonymous suicide attackers striking is even scarier.
 
Full bodied red said:
My regret is that this particular piece of scum didn't die a long...slow...lingering...painful death from his own injuries as some of his victims no doubt did.
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I agree, but you'll get shouted down for that here. Apparently he deserves a trial, and then to be jailed, clothed and fed for the rest of his life.
 
Danillaco said:
Are they? The Tim Poole vídeo at Ringkeby, if I remember right, was quite bizarre. Swesish authorities said that there no "no go zones", but problematic areas. The video speak for it self.

I remeber seeing a video on CNN about that in London, but found this about Germany: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/21/germany-sharia-police-court-ruling

Here BBC said 2015 had the most attackings in history, but maybe is my perception but the attacks are getting more and more frequent. Maybe it's me
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36845647
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You realize that there's no Sharia police in Germany?
 
Full bodied red said:
My regret is that this particular piece of scum didn't die a long...slow...lingering...painful death from his own injuries as some of his victims no doubt did.
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Be careful how you use the word 'scum'. I got a load of shite thrown at me for using this term on another thread when referring to the Taliban ...... who got slotted by Marine A.

I agree completely with your sentiment.
 
Unlikely lad said:
In the West, this should be the priority in the long term. I understand people wanting more money spent on security and more snooping etc, but education, integration (which doesn't only apply to foreigners, but British citizens as well), and the culling of extremist/radical preachers in the country should be really targeted. I have no idea how much is being invested in these.
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Very good post which I fully subscribe to.
 
SfcNervion said:
Although the trolly hijacker was from Uzbekistan, the insane extremists that are under the radar of the Swedish Security Police are born and raised in Sweden. It is mostly due to an integration problem here, but can't really speak for the situation of other countries. It is sad, because these tragedies gives fuel to the foreign-adversial propaganda for a certain political party. Considering the "No-go-zones" in Sweden - ehm, what?
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I'm not saying that the problem are the immigrants. I'm saying that the commom factor is the religion extremism. Sometimes, I don't even know if i should be called extremism, because the passages in the quran are quite clear about infidels.

The no-go zones are explained at the post above, but if we could focus on the main point of the post, I think it would be better.
 
Donovan_red7 said:
I agree, but you'll get shouted down for that here. Apparently he deserves a trial, and then to be jailed, clothed and fed for the rest of his life.
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Everyone deserves a trial and to be treated humanely by the state. If we ever stop doing that, then how would we even know who the terrorists are anymore?
 
Jesu Christ. 8 year old.... :(
I will hug my little daughter so tight today........
People at work are like that's horrible when I talk to them about it and then just change subject. Other colleague will just cheerfully tell us how she had a good time in Barcelona tomorrow like nothing happened. Can't understand it.
 
Unlikely lad said:
Half of this is untrue
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The No-go zones are being debated, as that maybe my perception of more and more attacks is being skewed, but what are the others that sum half?
The truck attacks (it's even sad calling it like this, seems the trucks created life and ran people), Paris riots, islam extremists?
 
Kentonio said:
It's nothing to do with political correctness, its about not handing over power to the state to have access to every aspect of your life. People will say this isn't the time to talk about it, but it's exactly the time. Because now is the time when powers are given away that will never be gotten back. You might not have anything to hide (you think), but maybe you'll think differently when you find out what handing the state these kinds of powers actually means. Look at America if you don't believe me, people prevented from flying for reasons they are never told but because their name ended up on the wrong list, people's every text message or email scanned, no accountability for any of it because of 'national security' and 'keeping people safe'.
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The American state used that power to end the peaceful protests of Occupy Wall Street. A state with a lot of knowledge about it's citizens and therefore a lot of power over it's citizens has little incentive to make sure all citizens are all right with what the state does.

In Britain we've lost how many people to terrorism? A few hundred maybe in the last decade? And for that, you'd hand over your right to privacy?
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I'm not opposed to all surveilance but it hasn't always been effective in preventing terrorist attacks. And it's about the only thing states are prepared to do against terrorism. It's not like the UK, the USA or any European state is prepared to change it's geopolitical positon or it's position on huge financial interests in certain regions to protect the people better against terrorism.
 
Kentonio said:
Everyone deserves a trial and to be treated humanely by the state. If we ever stop doing that, then how would we even know who the terrorists are anymore?
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The ones who openly go to a venue full of children and set off a bomb perhaps?
 
Danillaco said:
I'm not saying that the problem are the immigrants. I'm saying that the commom factor is the religion extremism. Sometimes, I don't even know if i should be called extremism, because the passages in the quran are quite clear about infidels.

The no-go zones are explained at the post above, but if we could focus on the main point of the post, I think it would be better.
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I am from Sweden, No go zones? Never heard of them. However there are problem areas like in any other country.
 
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