Sadly the only way he will feel any pressure is when City start taking the commercial deals that we would otherwise be getting. He just doesn't equate what happens on the pitch to sponsorship money. In truth it will take years of malaise on field before the money starts to dry up, in which case the Glazers will sell up and cash in.
Man Utd set to appoint Director of Football (when hell freezes over)
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All very noble but the Board won't give so much as a shiny one.
This is absolutely absurd, yet I fear it is true!
Maybe because there were obvious signs that GK was a problem and it would solve a lot of issues. Do you really think a new CB would solve most of the issues we have? Like failing to string an attack together?
We were ready to spunk 100m on Varane so yes, resources were available. He just wasn't backed on the players he wanted. He didn't get a RW or his CB and wasn't backed whatsoever this summer.
Yeah we got Fred. That's about where it ends. We needed a lot more than that to close the gap.
Everyone is shitting on Mourinho's transfers because Bailey and Lindelof have been recently shite. Lindelof I can agree but Bailey is an up and down sort of player and you can see his qualities. Both combined to be barely worth one John Stones fee.
It's quite obvious Jose wanted to expand our system and in turn our style of play but not getting the required talent has hindered him massively.
It's clear he's not backed. And if you have the cash and don't back your manager it's a serious concern and you're just dithering.
If Mou fails he needs to be sacked as well. It's as easy as that. No CEO should survive 3 wrong manager appointments.
Why are people blaming Woodward? It is clearly a team issue... 1-2 signings will not fix our problems. Even if it is Bale or Varane
Can see Ed's point of view to be fair especially over the CB area, both summers he has spent big money on CB (remember 30m for Bailly at the time was big has since been blown out the water with prices tho) now in the 3rd season he wants another CB for big money. reading spurs wanted 75m for eventually going down to 60m near the end of the window if reports are true. then to see the performances yesterday of the 2 cb's he signed then I think he right to say we are only prepared to buy the very best CB's. Also got to add in when LVG was here Smalling was labelled as one of the best CB's in the league at the time with Blind playing next to him yet under Jose he looks pretty poor. could say more about Jose's training as well as its a lot easier to train teams to defend then the attack side of the game. yet he can even do that just now. also for the Jose list we have no idea who was even on it was just all hear say. might have been players that were never ever going to come here like a Varane or so. there was plenty players over the summer that moved clubs for very resnable fee's that would have improved our starting 11 but according to reports we were never interested in. really we needed a lot more then just a CB as the full bac positions and RW are major problems. should Ed bring in someone with more football knowledge to do that side of the stuff then yes, but remember he has backed Jose very well over the other transfer windows.
He's on record saying as much:
Money first, winning second. Not sure how easy that is to support tbh.
I'm sorry, but there is no way Woodward or the Glaziers, very successful and experienced businessmen, don't realise a good product, ie what happens on the pitch, is directly related to the money they can make. Bloody hell, Woodwards face at the end of the match could be interpreted as proof of that! Furthermore I think they went for Mourinho to get quick success, as his previous record suggested was significantly possible. It was therefore a business decision. However, it hasn't worked out and I reckon Woodward, the board and owners will be chinwagging all day!
All he is saying is that the Man united brand is a behemoth that isn't necessarily going to fluctuate in the same way our finishes in the Premier League table will. For instance, when Leicester won the league did all the sponsors flock to them all of a sudden or did we still maintain our stance as one of the most globally recognised football teams that companies are falling over themselves to work with?
The truth is sponsors don't care where we finish so long as we maintain our global appeal, thats the nature of advertising. That does not equate to saying the board don't give a shit about the football, just that we have the luxury of being an attractive option regardless. We can have a season or two out of the title race and still be advertising darlings so Woodward in effects is saying that our advertising deals will not impact what happens on the pitch (i.e. fire Mourinho for a 5th place finish because the money depends on it).
Woodward is on record saying as much. The difference in money we make finishing 4th vs 1st in the league isn't more than it would cost to get there, any good businessman knows that. Truth is they have no emotional investment in seeing the team succeed.
Woodward looked angry as he's been proven wrong 2 games into the season. Turns out Mourinho knows more about footbal tban be does, who'd have thought.
He might well be making the club (Glazers) a lot of money, but imagine how much more we would make if we were brilliant on the pitch!
Having someone who can play out from the back, would help our attacking play. Having defenders the manager trusts to defend, meaning he doesn't have to set the team up so defensively, would help our attacking play.
Needless to say, fullbacks who can attack and an actual right winger, would also help our attacking play.
I don't think that it's the case, being successful is actually a selling point in the PLC's reports. Two sentences are important "Our business is dependent on our ability to attract and retain key personnel, icnluding players." and:
This is for investors, it's as cynical as it comes but people shouldn't assume what they tend to assume, these people want the club to be successful because it creates value and cash. The only issue is that we have a bad structure.
Stick around and you’ll see what I mean.
After watching yesterday's match don't you feel it's baffling that that team, with the players in it, can't create a single chance in the entire second half? Do you really think that's acceptable against fecking Brighton?
Yes I read that, although I just don't believe he's being honest there. The reason United has made so much money and has had so much global success business wise is because of the success throughout the Ferguson years, that is not rocket science.
Anyway, I think the reason they may be panicking a bit today is the real possibility that United could end up mid table at the end of the season. That will start to affect their business plan and love of money!
Jose is not trusted on the players he wants? Varane we will never get that's what we need. So he goes down the shelf to try and get Alderwiereld who we could still get in Jan? But for 25 million instead of 60 ? Maguire was priced out of a transfer by a silly 80 million never near it.
So the other top cb we can't get to we go with what we got. That game proved how inconsistent they are not helped by inconsistent midfielders. Jose the board Woodward etc have all ran out of ideas ..the problem is every one is trying to catch or match City, not going to happen the closest are the scum but they will fall short. We are poles away.. at least 4 players of quality and a playing style to match.. Jose will be gone this season, and I bet the board are already looking for a new manager, if so go all out for the Spurs top man Poch.
So the other top cb we can't get to we go with what we got. That game proved how inconsistent they are not helped by inconsistent midfielders. Jose the board Woodward etc have all ran out of ideas ..the problem is every one is trying to catch or match City, not going to happen the closest are the scum but they will fall short. We are poles away.. at least 4 players of quality and a playing style to match.. Jose will be gone this season, and I bet the board are already looking for a new manager, if so go all out for the Spurs top man Poch.
Not sure why people are taking a quote meant for investors out of context and using it as a stick to beat him with. It's a cheap Donald Trump type of point, ruins any chance of an intelligent debate
It's a selling point to investors, that's all. If our business was fully dependant on sporting performances we'd be Leeds. No one would be interested whatsoever.
People are trying to make it sound like we're hunting for scraps in the dumpster bin outside walmart, and that the current management doesn't care where we finish as long as it's top 4 so we get the extra revenue, but since Fergie retired we've invested roughly £670mill in transfer fees (not to mention the increase in wages). Odd £370mill of those £670mill have been under Mourinho. When Van Gaal made top 4 in his first season, we signed players for roughly £100mill (Depay, Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin, Martial, Darmian) in an attempt to make a challenge for the title. People on here barely had any skin left on their hands and penis after that summer.
It's a selling point to investors, that's all. If our business was fully dependant on sporting performances we'd be Leeds. No one would be interested whatsoever.
People are trying to make it sound like we're hunting for scraps in the dumpster bin outside walmart, and that the current management doesn't care where we finish as long as it's top 4 so we get the extra revenue, but since Fergie retired we've invested roughly £670mill in transfer fees (not to mention the increase in wages). Odd £370mill of those £670mill have been under Mourinho. When Van Gaal made top 4 in his first season, we signed players for roughly £100mill (Depay, Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin, Martial, Darmian) in an attempt to make a challenge for the title. People on here barely had any skin left on their hands and penis after that summer.
Woodward, the man of broken promises. Any manager coming in will take notice.
No, of course it's unacceptable. But we have a manager who's well past his peak and a squad that's not fit for purpose. That meant that, going into the summer, we had three options:
1) Spend a load of money getting in new players to keep our team's nose in front of sides that are managed by arguably (at this point) superior managers.
2) Sack the manager and appoint someone better.
3) Do neither of the above and write-off the season, with a top 4 place being a very possible casualty.
Woodward has chosen option three, which, in my view, is the worst possible option.
I actually think that it's the second best option. It makes no sense to spend a load of money for a manager that you don't trust or rate, the only way to justify it would be by purchasing players that the club value beyond the manager's tenure. If you don't rate a manager, you sack him immediately or give yourself the time to find a viable alternative. So 2, 3 and then 1.
If we are going to start making excuses then what about Brighton? I do not know their current situation but I highly doubt they had their perfect full lineup and that all of them have played together for multiple seasons. If they did then its a miracle.
There are clearly players that are not good enough and not worth the price as paid. No one else bought these players for these prices, no one forced us into it.
Brighton's entire squad (not the first eleven), was assembled for a grand total of 90 million euros. Mourinho has spent that in this window alone, but yeah, it's the lack of investment that is to blame.
As of now, it's all guesswork. He might want to get rid bit there's no one adequate to take over, who knows. If he wrote of the season as you say, Jose would have resigned or made a bigger deal out of it. I think he wants more of Mourinho, and this will be his make or break season. Which for most of us was exactly that anyway.
I think Woodward thought Top 4 was still secure despite going with option 3. I think he’ll be proved as wrong about that as he was about the quality of our defenders.
Exactly, one of our players cost the same as their whole squad.
I’ve said it before but there’s something up with out scouting and transfer strategy and then the boards ability and or willingness to go out and buy players. In an inflated market I thought the combined approx 68 million Barcelona spent on Lenglet and Malcom and then the 27 that Madrid spent on Odriozola presented young talented players that played in positions we needed to fill, that have room for improvement, and resale value, all at a reasonable price. I’m not saying we could have signed them but we don’t seem to have our hat in the ring for players like that anymore. I like Matic for example but he’s a dead investment as he only has limited years left at the top of his game and won’t have a resale value.
I’m not for or against Mourinho. I think perhaps we could be playing better but at the same time if we had a different manager I don’t see who could come in and take this current squad to a title or champions league final. Our long term investment in players is well off. Other teams have players like Hazard or De Brunye who will be quality under whichever manager. Apart from Lukaku, Pogba and De Gea all of our players are like jigsaw pieces and under a new manager we will need another transfer merry go round which will probably not yield any results. Look at LVG’s spending and how many of them are now no longer playing for us because they weren’t good enough.
I’m not for or against Mourinho. I think perhaps we could be playing better but at the same time if we had a different manager I don’t see who could come in and take this current squad to a title or champions league final. Our long term investment in players is well off. Other teams have players like Hazard or De Brunye who will be quality under whichever manager. Apart from Lukaku, Pogba and De Gea all of our players are like jigsaw pieces and under a new manager we will need another transfer merry go round which will probably not yield any results. Look at LVG’s spending and how many of them are now no longer playing for us because they weren’t good enough.
I don't think Woodward trusts Jose with transfers anymore due to the failures of Bailly, Lindelof and Sanchez. From Woodward's perspective, imagine the length you went to in order to sign Sanchez on huge wages in January, only to see him have a lesser impact than Lingard. For this reason, I think Jose will leave at the end of the season.
A new DoF is likely considering how Woodward had his fingers burned in the market by buying LvG's and Jose's targets.
These Red Issue dinosaurs really don't understand the business world, do they? Ed didn't mean we shouldn't focus on performances by that statement. Rather, he was assuring stakeholders who have zero interest in the sport that the revenue streams are independent of sporting activities. Nothing wrong in that.
A new DoF is likely considering how Woodward had his fingers burned in the market by buying LvG's and Jose's targets.
These Red Issue dinosaurs really don't understand the business world, do they? Ed didn't mean we shouldn't focus on performances by that statement. Rather, he was assuring stakeholders who have zero interest in the sport that the revenue streams are independent of sporting activities. Nothing wrong in that.
I wonder... What arguments do those who want Jose gone but not Woodward (gone from footballing stuff and be limited to making money) have?
If Woodward doesn't trust Mourinho then why he did give him an contract extension last season? The fact he didn't back him leave Mourinho exposed to a possible mid season sacking. This is the same team that barely finished 2nd ahead of Liverpool and Spurs and now even Chelsea are showing signs they can challenge City despite Sarri in charge in barely a month. If Mourinho go, Woodward has to go as well. That's three managers failed in five years.
As a saying goes, three strikes and you're out.
As a saying goes, three strikes and you're out.
I think delegating footballing matters to an expert would free up Woodward to focus on the commercial side of things which he has proven to be excellent at. A director of football would help soften the blow when a manager leaves or is sacked as it gives a continuity between managers. Some of the players that left under Van Gaal could have benefited Mourinho and the same with the next manager, when you leave ins and outs to someone behind the scenes who will stay true to a footballing philosophy. It makes it much easier to build a winning side instead of starting one project, getting halfway there and then starting a new project under a new manager.
they've always an anti-glazer axe to grind that clouds their opinion
I agree we should spend more money but not sure Jose is the man to be doing it
we're still struggling to get shot of some of Van Gaals signings
People want to have it both ways still with Woodward.
They want it to be all the manager's fault if the players don't perform, but then don't accept Woodward has any responsibility at all if the manager is not performing.
It is Woodward's job to enable the manager to have a platform to succeed, or to replace or help the manager if he doesn't have faith in them to succeed. We're on our third manager on the trot now where Woodward has demonstrated no ability to do any of these things. If you let Jose build three different teams in a row and they all failed to be good enough, you would definitely have to say it is his responsibility, so the same has to apply to Woodward.
They want it to be all the manager's fault if the players don't perform, but then don't accept Woodward has any responsibility at all if the manager is not performing.
It is Woodward's job to enable the manager to have a platform to succeed, or to replace or help the manager if he doesn't have faith in them to succeed. We're on our third manager on the trot now where Woodward has demonstrated no ability to do any of these things. If you let Jose build three different teams in a row and they all failed to be good enough, you would definitely have to say it is his responsibility, so the same has to apply to Woodward.
Hes gotten loads of players that have been asked for, big names, its not his fault what happens after they join.
According to his own briefing, he chose not sign players the manager said were needed. That is deliberately not giving the manager a platform to succeed. So if he isn't replacing the manager either, or re-assessing with him what we can do to succeed, what IS he doing? He is either deliberately allowing the manager to fail, or his briefing was a complete load of bollocks. If it's the first then it is very clear Woodward is a bigger problem than who the manager is. If it's the second then what is it he is trying to cover up by feeding the media a load of nonsense?
Plus it's a fairly simple point. If the performance of the players in the manager's responsibility and reflects on his performance, then in turn, the performance of the manager is Woodward's responsibility, and reflects on his performance. No one forced him to employ Mourinho and LVG for a combined total of over 4 years.
With a player, it gets to a point where if they are constantly being played despite underperforming, it becomes the manager's fault for continuing to rely on them. Whether they are underperforming due to not being good enough or due to poor management is then besides the point.
The same applies here. Whether you think Jose, LVG, Moyes were poor managers, or good managers being handled badly by the club, the fact is they have managed us for the last six years in the circumstances which they have, and someone at the club chose for that to be the case.
I do find it very strange how people on here are so willing to blindly back Woodward, yet will slate players or the manager at the drop of a hat. The players and manager at the end of the day are trying to win games and give you something to be happy about. Woodward just wants to take money from you.
I agree with you but I have one question. Do you accept the possibility that the board has lost trust in the manager's ability to identify and improve the correct players? When I look at his purchase and how they performed, I understand why someone would think "You are not doing a Mkhitaryan, Bailly, Lindelof on us again and stop using Lukaku as a target man he has never been one."
We didn't have a back line and needed to buy new players. You can only buy players that are available, you can offer £1b for Messi but is he doesn't want to leave then what can you do?
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