Without counting Sanchez the club spent 400m since Mourinho took over, there has been consistency. The manager has consistently purchased players that he fails to integrate in a cohesive team. Maybe you think that 600m-700m should have been spent, I don't.
Man Utd set to appoint Director of Football (when hell freezes over)
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Without counting Sanchez the club spent 400m since Mourinho took over, there has been consistency. The manager has consistently purchased players that he fails to integrate in a cohesive team. Maybe you think that 600m-700m should have been spent, I don't.
Blaming Woodward when 2 Mourinho cb’s are playing shit.
It does matter when the team that finished above us last season has spent £600m+ since Mourinho took over and had a significantly better team to begin with (Aguero, KDB, Sterling, David Silva, Fernandinho). Our best player at Mourinho's start aside from De Gea was who? Martial, Mata?
The team has been improving year on year with Mourinho, football hasn't looked great at times (though it has at times too - like the start of last season) but you can't suddenly stop backing the manager when your competition is already better than you and spending more. Especially when clubs like Liverpool are spending £160m in a summer and will most likely finish ahead of us too.
I really believe if we had signed two top full backs and a top RW like Mahrez we would've been a challenger this year. But we didn't. Either the blame goes to Mourinho for not targeting the right players / positions or Woodward for not backing him in the transfer market. Either way it leaves us in a position with a good squad but not a great one which will struggle to win anything this season.
I’ve gradually changed my position from anti-Mourinho to having a touch of sympathy. Unlike the press I am now thinking that the Pogba comments were not actually aimed at Jose, but at the Board. He was, presumably, made all sorts of promises of investment to return to the club. Meanwhile he has seen City, and Liverpool, buy world class players to vastly improve their sides. I really think Jose inherited a lot of deadwood and has not been backed with the ambition our near neighbours have shown. Just my opinion.
That took us to 2nd.
The team who finished 1st spent double that and started with a much better base (names I listed)
Mourinho did not under achieve. He only under achieved when you consider the name "Manchester United" not the facts.
There was a chance to improve further and try to close the gap but we didn't do it. The owners and Woodward purposely didn't do it. Not only did we stand still in our pursuit of City, we watched as Liverpool watched and waved as the passed us by spending where they needed to spend. Chelsea the same really and their owner is apparently not interested anymore!
Fergie bought a few duffers in his time. I remember they would get binned and replaced if they weren't up to the standard we hoped they would be. What did Liverpool do when Karius turned into a lemon? Went out and spent a record sum on his replacement. Signings that don't work out are annoying, but no need to compound the problem by forcing the manager to keep playing them when he's clearly realised they aren't up to the job right now.
Very well put, in no team in any sports should the manager be overruled about the quality of playing staff or potential playing staff by someone who knows as much as me in comparison to one of the most successful managers of all time.
Even if Ed was Cantona or Ferguson they should either back him or sack him, City, Chelsea, Liverpool etc will keep spending and spending so we need to too, City have spent shitloads on players that haven’t worked out, but they realise this and try to get it right the next time, yes its expensive but at least they keep improving, every transfer is a risk but to stop buying because a non football man thinks he knows better than the manager then we’re in the shit.
Just watch the games, stop watching the standings and actually watch the games. There is nothing else to say.
Exactly.
I'm a paying supporter my friend.
You'd feel very differently if you witnessed first hand the deterioration of the club since these owners took charge of our club.
This has been years in the making.
So if you don't mind I won't think a change of coach (yet again) will be the magic wand.
Exactly. Very strange principle that. Flop signings happen all the time. You chop them and get others and so on. People not wanting Ed to buy players because of Mourinho makes it looks like as if they hate Mourinho more than loving the team and want to see the metldown happen. This doesn't help the team at all.
Today result was on Mourinho and his players, but it won't change the fact Ed was garbage in the summer. Said multiple times the board buys and sells for the team not for the current manager. Successful players stay longer than successful managers at any place.
If Mourinho experiment ends up in a failure, a complete revolution in the football department needs to happen, and that will include Ed too.
Hear, hear. Cuts to the heart of the matter.
Surely the answer is somewhere in the middle... quality not quantity?
Nobody would have accused Woodward of buying overpaid deadwood in Alderweireld.
The problem with Jose is that not many of his signings are what you consider successes. That's ultimately where the problem lies. If you list out Klopps 13 money signings, only Grujic, Klavan and Karius can be considered bad and the most expensive of those transfers was 7m euros.
You look at Joses' signings and it's a different picture. The only one you can safely say looks like money well spent had been Matic. Pogbas brought problems and was benched for poor form last season, Lukaku hasn't scored as many goals as we expected. Lindelof so far has been a poor signing, Bailly ok at times but inconsistent, Mkhi was a bit of a disaster and we used him to get Sanchez who's also flopped hard so far. I'm not sure you can compare Liverpools and our transfer successes.
Liverpool replaced a 6m signing with a mega transfer. If we were to bring in a new CB we'd be replacing a 35/38m player instead. Pretty big difference.
I didn't suggest a change of coach, I want Mourinho to succeed but I don't like the way he is given a free pass by some when he is doing a below par job at the moment. Everybody else seem to be doing a bad job but him.
Totally agreed !! It shouldn't matter in today's match !!
Bit to win something big we definitely need a better team !!
In last 3 years, The net spent of Liverpool is 140 Mil, Utd's is 300 and Citi's net spent is 400 mil !! Citi
have such a young squad they don't have to spend much in next coming years but we can't say same in our case !!
We spent lot of money but problem is not having right strategy and letting good players slip up at right time !!
Pogba/Matic/Lukaku/Alexis are decent signings but it looks like the difference is other teams have foundations of a good team and they are building on that but it appears even after 500 mil in last 6 years we still need some renovation work which is disappointing!!
Woodward should have a proper council around him if he was not sure about transfers and recruiting managers !!
Buying Top Players is one thing and getting them properly coached/ managed is other thing it seems we need to get these 2 right ASAP !!
Changing a coach ! Bringing in a DOF or buying few more quality players ..what ever it takes !!
Why do you keep saying that?
We've spent £315.08m net, they've spent £398.71m net. However they have performed, as if they've spent double, because they just have a better manager.
The prospect of trying to compete with city in terms of spending was always gonna be difficult, and all the more so when you have an inferior manager.
Yeah, that's because there is no such thing as deadwood before you've bought them. Fans don't have to answer to anybody, however spectacularly bad their transfer wishes turn out to be. For the club, it's a player they have to get rid of, for the fans it's an afterthought in a locked thread somewhere, long forgotten.
I like Alderweireld, but we have no idea how much was asked for him by Levy. Nevertheless everyone is happy to speculate that Ed Woodward made the decision based on the evaluation of his footballing quality, how they've got that figured out is anyone's guess.
Woodward made his choice in the Summer.
Jose wanted to improve the squad to turn 2nd place into 1st.
Woodward's actions (net spend of around £50M, which was ridiculous) told us that he and the Glazers were quite happy with top 4, which I think Jose will get.
Top 4 and a low transfer spend (similar to Arsenal's strategy), is what the Glazers are attempting to replicate. If Jose can do what Wenger did at Arsenal, Jose will have a job until he retires.
During the transfer window, many people believed that Woodward was hard at work, trying to make deals. I had my suspicion that he wasn't. He had his head in the sand and was waiting for the window to close, so that he could go back to the Glazers and tell them that our net spend this Summer was the lowest in several years. The Glazers must've promised him a bonus for this. The other thing which struck me as odd, was when we were hyping up a 35 yr old GK and a 19 yr old RB, both of whom won't be seeing any first team action, anytime soon.
Gentleman, welcome to the "new" MUFC. Top 4 and big profits is now the target and we are on schedule to achieve that target.
Jose wanted to improve the squad to turn 2nd place into 1st.
Woodward's actions (net spend of around £50M, which was ridiculous) told us that he and the Glazers were quite happy with top 4, which I think Jose will get.
Top 4 and a low transfer spend (similar to Arsenal's strategy), is what the Glazers are attempting to replicate. If Jose can do what Wenger did at Arsenal, Jose will have a job until he retires.
During the transfer window, many people believed that Woodward was hard at work, trying to make deals. I had my suspicion that he wasn't. He had his head in the sand and was waiting for the window to close, so that he could go back to the Glazers and tell them that our net spend this Summer was the lowest in several years. The Glazers must've promised him a bonus for this. The other thing which struck me as odd, was when we were hyping up a 35 yr old GK and a 19 yr old RB, both of whom won't be seeing any first team action, anytime soon.
Gentleman, welcome to the "new" MUFC. Top 4 and big profits is now the target and we are on schedule to achieve that target.
I honestly don't think he's done a particularly bad job for the reasons I've stated but it's up for debate. I've said countless times we can all discuss tactics, style, who should play, who shouldn't, if player x is any good. That would happen whatever and will always happen.
What I'm firm about is that any manager will struggle under these owners and their puppet Woodward (hence this debate happening on the Woodward thread and me not bothering touching the Mourinho threads). I don't how many managers we'll go through for us to come to the conclusion that this is the route of enquiry for United's ills but I'll keep banging the drum all the same.
The Glazers are chasing money and not sporting achievement. Woodward does as he's told. He and they allow us to spend money if it makes financial sense (to get the CL money, a marketable player etc etc)
They don't and never will spend to become the best team in Europe/England.
The first line of resolution is to get Woodward out of town. Peeling back another layer and removing the owners puppet is the first step.
Guardiola's spent over 500m pounds.
Is the word "net" illegible on your screen?
Are we the worst run 'big' club in europe?
Yes, there is even a thread about it from not long ago.
Even if you go by net spend, Guardiola has spent a little more than 100 million than Jose, and that's with him having a far better squad to start with.
Posted this in the Jose performance thread too but it is relevant here aswell imo.
Everyone is to blame if we are honest.
Now we have ended up with a squad that is under performing with a manager who plays unexciting football and owners who for some reason think they have the football intelligence to veto transfers? Such an outcome is asking to fail. Why would things magically get better?
I expect that the best we can hope for is a new manager who will produce similar results while playing better football.
TLDR: Blame is on all parties but the owners are certainly our biggest overall issue. Not for lack of investment but for having the gall to think they know enough about football to veto Jose' transfers and leave him out to dry.
Everyone is to blame if we are honest.
- Jose is not getting good enough performances from the lads although the results in terms of our points total you could argue is as good as this team can get.
- The players are also letting themselves down and no matter the instructions they have been given they have not been to standard for the last year.
- The owners have no excuse for not backing Jose. They gave him a new contract. If they didn't like his direction fire him. The last thing you do is keep him and not give him anywhere close to what he says he needs.
Now we have ended up with a squad that is under performing with a manager who plays unexciting football and owners who for some reason think they have the football intelligence to veto transfers? Such an outcome is asking to fail. Why would things magically get better?
I expect that the best we can hope for is a new manager who will produce similar results while playing better football.
TLDR: Blame is on all parties but the owners are certainly our biggest overall issue. Not for lack of investment but for having the gall to think they know enough about football to veto Jose' transfers and leave him out to dry.
From the article:
So not before this is executed, meaning not in the near future.
Why this has to be done before appointing a DoF is not known, and not easy to understand.
Also from the article:
So the point in having a DoF was to get Woodward away from footballing decisions, but if he is still to have a key role in this then what is the point?
Seems to me like these rumors/article was made to appease the fanbase and nothing more.
Probably have been for years now. There's some stiff competition from the likes of Milan, but in terms of recruitment, planning, etc., we've been abysmal for close to a decade.
Totally agree! If the organization doesn’t back Jose , why wait? Just get rid of him and move on. What are we expecting for this season? Still building the team or what? Or just wait for the other clubs to come down. Are we going to compete against the other clubs? Woodward needs to do something. Back him or sack him!
He's spent 83 million more, but yeah let's not split hairs. In any case not the double that was suggested.
I agree with you on "better" squad, but when that was argued here before Guardiola took over city. The few of us who argued so were vehemently opposed by those citing all the gaps they have, ageing players, injury prone players, not hungry enough players etc.
Bring a great manager and all these question marks become "well they were the best team all along, weren't they".
Most definitely the case - hence the talk of appointing a Director of Football leaking out immediately after deciding not to pay ridiculous fees for the players Mourinho wanted.
To be honest, I think Mourinho has to shoulder some of the blame for the targets he picked.
For example, Maguire was technically available, but the talk of Leicester demanding a record fee (ie. in excess of the £75m Liverpool paid for Van Dijk) made it completely out of the question. Being the best player that we could actually sign in a specific window does not make him worthy of that kind of fee. Does anyone really think spending £80m on Harry Maguire would have sorted out our main issue -- attack? Of course not.
Whether or not Alderweireld was actually available is still a mystery. Maybe Levy would've sold him if he'd found a replacement first, maybe not. Maybe he demanded an attacking player that we would've had to replace first, maybe not. Asking to sign anyone from Spurs for United is a crap shoot, even if they've put in a transfer request.
Mina was a joke of a suggestion, a player that had only been in Europe for 6 months and had barely played before having an average World Cup made to look better by scoring on some set pieces. Throw in the alleged demand of a buy-back clause from Barcelona and there's no reason we should've been anywhere near him.
Boateng is permanently crocked, almost 30, and the most notable thing he did during his last spell in England was get himself injured by banging his knee against the drink cart on one of City's European away trips. Grasping at straws.
Skriniar and Koulibaly looked the business in Serie A and seem like Mourinho-type defenders, but there was barely a whisper about either.
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Painful question. So, yeah, maybe.
I have said this elsewhere but I think it’s important to support this - I don’t know what can be done, probably nothing, like before. Let’s call a spade a spade, though. The owners/CEO have fecked up the summer. SAF, Pep, Mou, Zidane; none of them could operate successfully - long term, with the kind of league we have now - without backing.
Can it be Ferguson?
That was stupid. Wasn't it straight after the Europa league final? He still had a few years left on his original contract, why take the decision to extend it so quickly?
It's not really blind speculation that Woodward cut Mourinho's funds off somewhat this summer due to a lack of trust in his transfer judgements - there were a lot of briefs and when the likes of BBC and The Times are unanimous in the aforementioned assertion you have to give it some credence. Indeed the BBC and Sky Sports specifically came out with the "Alderweireld was judged to only be good in a back three" line.
The speculation we heard was that Alderweireld was between £40m and £60m so it seems fairly certain it was actually around this figure, unless we just assume all media talk baseless rubbish all the time which despite our love of bashing them isn't true. Considering just how badly today showed we need a top quality leader at CB there's no way that price should have been prohibitive.
Yes transfers can backfire but you can't defend Woodward on this. Nobody blamed him for Di Maria.
Was it not a few months before the end of last season? I think it was just before the Sevilla atrocity. It made little sense at the time to renew him. Honestly, if they hadn't given him a new contract I may be a little more on their side but renewing his contract and then hanging him out to dry in the summer is unexplainable.
The fans are the ones who will suffer. The season was never going to magically become good without either improving the team or changing the way we play. The chances of things just clicking where never likely.
His extension was at the end of January this year. We were in 2nd, 13 points behind City and they had a game in hand.
This quote seems to underline the major issue, the person controlling much of the investment in the players, is also the lapdog in providing maximum financial benefit to the owners and share price.
This offseason proves that if Woody doesn't like the player from an investment/social media profile, then he will deny it.
The club really demonstrated that there was an undeniable need for a right side attacking player,possibly a more physical midfielder, and a defensive leader. If Brighton didn't underline those requirements then so be it, if you don't believe the purse strings are heavily controlled by Woody and the Glazers it defies the evidence.Being so far off the pace since the Moyes/VG reigns, it was always going to take sizeable investment over 4/5 years given headstart that was given to Citeh and the need to move on some unispiring signings. Thanks to Woody and the board, despite the clubs revenue and wealth we basically sat still this year. Can't count the 3 signings as top range, values have escalated and our signings don't reflect that. Too much time spent by Woody on non football matters, then again he seems to care about sponsors and share price more than results on the field given where we see him regularly
Oh come on, We gave him a contract extension at the end of January. Why would Woodward suddently realize he made a mistake? Good excuse for not getting in the players neccessary.
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