That's what Mark Ogden is reporting..
Man Utd set to appoint Director of Football (when hell freezes over)
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Hope so
I don't think we really know what we want.
TBH, it's a bit late to be getting one. Deals/targets have been identified for ages.
Plus Utd at their most successful never needed one;we had Gill and SAF. If Ole is melding modern management with the tradition of SAF then I'm not seeing it.
As I said, not sure what Utd or anyone wants..
I've heard DoF so many times I'm feeling physically sick 
. 219 pages pure speculation, has the club uttering anything to do with appointing one,seriously? And Mark Ogden is a mug, he said Ole is not the right man long term so are we really going to listen to this ABU?
. 219 pages pure speculation, has the club uttering anything to do with appointing one,seriously? And Mark Ogden is a mug, he said Ole is not the right man long term so are we really going to listen to this ABU?Spot on. We have spent more than Madrid and Barca in the past 6 years. Comparing the silverware is a joke. The grass is absolutely greener at other top clubs, it is objectively so.
He started off doing opposition scouting for LVG and then got promoted to head of global recruitment, whatever that means. Like it or not, his name seems to be a candidate according to the papers. And while I like the idea of promoting from within, if he had any hand in the likes of di maria rojo and darmian then he can feck off.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...ds-decision-get-technical-director-proof-can/
Jason Burt: United still intend on getting 'technical director', rather than Director of Football. Position will be on par with Ole, not above him. Will look at longer term goals but won't have more power than manager or Woodward, even on the football side of things.
Essentially Woodward believes he needs an advisor and someone to share workload / blame, but still sees himself as the real DoF.
Jason Burt: United still intend on getting 'technical director', rather than Director of Football. Position will be on par with Ole, not above him. Will look at longer term goals but won't have more power than manager or Woodward, even on the football side of things.
Essentially Woodward believes he needs an advisor and someone to share workload / blame, but still sees himself as the real DoF.
He makes me sick
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...ds-decision-get-technical-director-proof-can/
More points:
More likely that appointment of technical director will be made internally, though not certain. Club believes recent Ole resurgence shows that they need to stay within the United DNA.
Mourinho wanted a DoF, specifically one that he knew, Luis Campos. Ed disliked the idea because he didn't want someone who shared too much in common with the manager, as opposed to being independent. Doesn't mention if the problem was specifically Mourinho, but implies Ed would have this view regardless of who the manager was.
More points:
More likely that appointment of technical director will be made internally, though not certain. Club believes recent Ole resurgence shows that they need to stay within the United DNA.
Mourinho wanted a DoF, specifically one that he knew, Luis Campos. Ed disliked the idea because he didn't want someone who shared too much in common with the manager, as opposed to being independent. Doesn't mention if the problem was specifically Mourinho, but implies Ed would have this view regardless of who the manager was.
First thing first, I have no confidence in Woodward.
However there is no club where the DoF can work independently and his views or dealings are carried out independent of the people above him. Abidal cannot sign De Jong without Bartomeu having his opinion on the matter.
I don't think that article is any different.
However there is no club where the DoF can work independently and his views or dealings are carried out independent of the people above him. Abidal cannot sign De Jong without Bartomeu having his opinion on the matter.
I don't think that article is any different.
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Exactly. I don't know how anyone can think any person will have more power than Woodward except owners.
Monchi when he made bids for Malcom mentioned how he got in touch with owners, confirmed amount and sent bids. DoF won't be working as if they own the club. They will work alongside people who take care of the club financially.
Luis Campos would have been ideal for "buying younger players" strategy that the clubs seems to prefer now. Did it at Monaco, and Lille looking good as well.
We don't need a power tussle or a d**k swinging contest to be honest .We need the system to perform as the board in top club should perform which is to get the absolute best team out there and be a wise and effective in the transfer market capable of winning biggest honours in world football. No more useless purchases like fellani, mata schneiderlin, mkh and a better strategy going forward with a strong emphasis on scouting and getting the elite talents as early as possible just like we got them in the past.
If a sporting or technical director helps refine woodward's decisions and we should be fine.
You could be right, but that's not how I read the article. A DoF usually oversees the footballing side of the club and yes would report to Woodward to discuss options and get permission, but it sounds like the new position will only be on par with the manager / head scout and Woodward will essentially be the DoF.
No-one is saying a potential DoF would have more power than Woodward. I am saying he should have more responsibility in football matters. He should form his own plans and Woodwards only real role would be to grant permission or to say "that would cost too much, try again". There is no reason why this man should continue to have any influence apart from the commercial aspect.
This tells me that actually someone like Cantona could do this job, because they won't necessarily be the person in charge of all the transfers. Infact for me this points to an internal appointment more than say, someone like Monchi or Betra. It wouldn't shock me if we got an old player in after keeping Solksjaer now
How is a "technical director" any different to what we have from our current head scout then? If what Jason Burt is saying is true.
Our current head scout is already no higher than Ole, answerable to Woodward and already part the club. He deals on the footballing side of things and looks for long term acquisitions.
This is sounds like a pile of wank "paper appointment" for appearances more than anything else.
Our current head scout is already no higher than Ole, answerable to Woodward and already part the club. He deals on the footballing side of things and looks for long term acquisitions.
This is sounds like a pile of wank "paper appointment" for appearances more than anything else.
To be fair, we have no idea what the current set up is .
Yeah, we need a proper team. Someone with DoF or technical director to target players needed and also development plan for young players, Woodward and co to worry about financial aspects.
Indeed. Gives Ed someone else to blame when things go wrong though, I suppose.
Isn't this exactly what is happening now though? If we believe the press the players Mourinho wanted to sign were deemed to be not fitting the United profile and Woodward didn't approve. If Woodward's aim is to bring in young talent to develop on the long term instead of players in their late 20s / early 30s who have a shorter shelf life, is that not a good thing?
I think the jury is out on Woodward. He's shown he is capable of bringing in big exciting players, that he is willing to pay big transfer fees and wages, but these players have been misused in most cases. And I think a lot of the signings we made were quite exciting at the time (regardless of how they worked out). So far he has worked with managers who have been conservative and defensive so I think we might see better signings under Ole. Ole has already improved performances on a number of players so lets see how they do together in the next window.
This type of article is infuriating. First there is no factual difference between technical director and DOF they are just arbitrary titles, the position is in itself undetermined and will depend on what each clubs need. Secondly there isn't a single DOF that has total control over transfers that's a stupid idea, he isn't the one signing the checks.
What I keep trying to say. There is not a single club where suits aren't involved in the players a club signs.
Specific to our club however, we are crying out for someone to be employed to take control of transfers. He can be called Technical Director, Director of Football or whatever - but as long as he has the control of the required remit it's fine.
The concerning point by Jason Burt is that the prospective candidate will not have control of transfers. Allowing the final say on a transfer to solely rest on a manager results in key man risk, which is what we've suffered by having a load of LVG men being managed by Mourinho, who goes in to bring Mourinhio men and then gets the sack himself, leaving Ole to work with a mish mash of players. Some might fit his style, others might not. A constant among all these variables (i.e. a director in charge of transfers that fit the philosophy of our club) would help fix that.
Now, with all that said I do think if Ole has final say it might work fine for us, because he wants to build the "most fit, hard working United side" which is something we're crying out for and a massive problem area for us. I can ignore the mess of transfers he made at Cardiff and hope it's not a reflection to bigger clubs (and that he's learned from it).. but if Ole gets a sack in 2 years and the next manager walks in and see's players that don't suit his style, then what?
For some reason people struggle with the idea that the CEO or the owners will ultimately decide, what we want from technical directors is expertise. Ideally a club like United would have the type of set up that Barcelona have where the technical directors have different domain of expertise, scouting, transfers, players development, HR and things like that. It doesn't guarantee success but it brings a lot more knowledge and allows everyone to focus on smaller areas instead of expecting one person to take care of everything.
That's clearly not his only role so far. It's been well documented that Woodward favours fashionable players because of their commercial appeal. It makes United look big, as opposed to function well. A lot of those players were also not right for us - Sweinsteiger, Di Maria, Falcao etc because of age, fitness, mentality. A DoF who understands football would be able to mitigate against that. I'm an Ole fan but we don't know how good he will be at picking players. We're meant to be moving away from the Ferguson / Godfather approach.
Also, it's all well saying he wants to buy young players etc, but that didn't stop him buying lots of old players, so I'm not sure why you would trust him to succeed now. What if he simply refuses to buy an older player who would be perfect for us, and insists on buying mediocre young players? We need someone who can do more than stick to some simplistic rigid system.
Surely you realize that this is absolute BS? United has barely bought fashionable players since Woodward became vice-CEO and the ones signed were managers wishes and on paper very good players that we needed.
Mata, Sweinsteiger, Di Maria, Falcao, Pogba, Lukaku, Sanchez. He tried to sign Bale and countless others. He goes on about how we can do things in the transfer market other clubs could only dream of. It's BS to believe otherwise. He is a marketing man. Do the maths. The fact he has changed his tune now is because of his failure. He deserves no credit whatsoever.
And you are contradicting yourself by saying he is responsible for signing players, but then removing any sense of blame from the transfers. So which is it?
Why not give it to someone who knows the club, few names comes to mine. Rio, Evra or Van da sar.
They are a good shout
They are a good shout
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I'm trying to identify what the club are looking for exactly, and I think it's someone who can do the following.
- Identifying the type of football that is ideal for the club and the fans.
- Identifying the profile of the coach needed to fulfill the above ideals.
- Identifying the profile of the player, such that this profile is consistent with what the club and coach would like to have.
- Obtaining a list of potential transfers from the manager and ensuring that this meets the club's goals, player profile, and club ambitions.
- Negotiating with the coach regarding the above mentioned transfer list.
- Making proposals to the board regarding these transfer targets and the potential costs involved.
- Be involved in communications with other clubs and player agents.
- Play a role in negotiations for new transfers.
- Making decisions on existing player contracts
- Assessing current player value to the club.
Anything else?
- Identifying the type of football that is ideal for the club and the fans.
- Identifying the profile of the coach needed to fulfill the above ideals.
- Identifying the profile of the player, such that this profile is consistent with what the club and coach would like to have.
- Obtaining a list of potential transfers from the manager and ensuring that this meets the club's goals, player profile, and club ambitions.
- Negotiating with the coach regarding the above mentioned transfer list.
- Making proposals to the board regarding these transfer targets and the potential costs involved.
- Be involved in communications with other clubs and player agents.
- Play a role in negotiations for new transfers.
- Making decisions on existing player contracts
- Assessing current player value to the club.
Anything else?
So any good player with a track record is signed because he is fashionable, it has nothing to do with them being good players? Also half of the players that you mentioned weren't and still aren't fashionable.
As for your last point there is no sense in it. Where did I remove blame from anyone, in fact when did I even made a qualitative judgement of the transfers? You are making up a narrative that makes little sense when you look at who the club bought, most of the players that you didn't mention were bigger investments and were bought instead of actually fashionable players.
They are all massive names and each one had red flags attached to them which a competent person would have seen. Maybe you are forgetting that someone in charge of Manchester United should actually be more competent than the average fan on red cafe? I am not disagreeing that when they were signed I was excited to see them at United, but I'm just a fan. And even I could see potential issues like LVG's best years behind him, Jose being the opposite of 'the United way', Sweinsteiger being forced out of Bayern, Di Maria forced out of Real Madrid, Falcaos age / injuries, Sanchez choosing us at the last minute over City due to wage increase...
There is a clear pattern of poor decision making when choosing managers and players since he took over and anyone who can't see that is being wilfully ignorant. Ed Woodward is not an autocratic president for life. His power can be reduced if he or the Glazers wish. Don't you think it would be better if the only power Ed had is to say to a DoF "Yes, that's fine, here's the cheque" or "that's too much, do you have a cheaper option"?
If that is what happens next season, I will be delighted. But I am very sceptical that it will transpire that way. I think it will be like the Ferguson / Gill model, except Ole won't have any where near the influence of Fergie and Woodward has no where near the competency of Gill. Just my opinion.
I have defended the idea of changing the structure and bringing a DOF way before you joined this forum so don't act as if I suggested to not bring a DOF. My issue is when you make up things that are clearly false like the fashionable player narrative, the players that you listed were signed because they were good players in positions of need, it's baffling to see people actually try to distort reality to that point, also the lists of targets are provided by the managers not Woodward while he ultimately have to sanction them and will take his share of responsibility on the outcome, the narrative that he is the one targeting players is daft and the idea that he targets players based on how fashionable they are is dafter and not supported by reality.
The last 5 years have shown that we have a problem in the technical direction of the club and that problem is limited to one thing, determining the long term identity of the club and picking the managers and structure that fit it. The successive appointments of Moyes, LVG and Mourinho make no sense and that's on Woodward that's a big enough issue to not add nonsensical narrative on top of it.
Ed Woodward said in a conference call after signing Sanchez, that he made more social media impact than the Neymar signing, which was an indication that this was a good decision. It is undeniable that Woodward thinks that marketability of players is a factor in signing them. He is a discount Fiorentino Perez, and is even needing several years of failure to realise his mistakes like him.
Woodward has every right to say how much you can spend, what wages you can give and so on. In fact, he is probably best suited at this club to do that. But to suggest that him not rating Alderweireld or Perisic is him doing his job is nonsense. I can absolutely not believe that Ole thinks our defenders are elite like they were when we were winning big trophies, and Mourinho did not think the same, yet we haven't got one in. Instead we are signing Jones onto a new deal.
Woodward has every right to say how much you can spend, what wages you can give and so on. In fact, he is probably best suited at this club to do that. But to suggest that him not rating Alderweireld or Perisic is him doing his job is nonsense. I can absolutely not believe that Ole thinks our defenders are elite like they were when we were winning big trophies, and Mourinho did not think the same, yet we haven't got one in. Instead we are signing Jones onto a new deal.
What I want is not letting one of the managers, DOF/Technical or CEO to have complete control of transfer window, they need to be all on the same term where they should look for players, type of player they need to buy, our scouting network will supply them with a review of many other players they tracked like Sancho, Lozano, Koulibaly, etc.
To be fair, Gill hasn't done a good job himself if we are talking about United off pitches, he didn't improve the scouting network and willing not to march other clubs for agent fees, we missed out on players because of that, like Hazard, Aguero, etc.
Looks like the press have been briefed, with articles from the Times, Telegraph, ESPN all saying that there will be an appointment being made, though I suspect any impact of that person won't be felt until next season as it's simply too late now.
It's actually the other way around, the club uses its own marketability to convince players to join because it will elevate their profiles. The marketability of the club isn't reliant on players or even short term results, it's based on the name of the club and its history and that's something that Woodward has mentioned several times to shareholders.
I never said he targets players. He was simply more likely to sanction a transfer if the signing could be heralded by a snazzy marketing campaign. You can believe whatever you like, but to say there is no evidence of this is absurd. I have provided many examples. It didn't happen under Ferguson / Gill and the last 3 managers are hardly known for chasing big names for the sake of it. LVG has specifically said that some transfers were nowhere near his first choices.
Anyway, this discussion is going nowhere and I have things to do.
This was a business conference call and if memory serves correctly before he had kicked a ball for United (or very little play) so yes you do want to show investors some impact of a new signing if you can and show how, even when they are not winning the league, United remain a huge force globally. Like it or not, this is great news for investors. Its not a stick to beat Woodward with, its him doing his job like every other CEO does. You also can't extrapolate that to mean that signings are only based or judged on social media impact Woodward had issues with the profile of player Mourinho was looking to sign.
Having got our fingers burned on Sanchez you can understand the board being reluctant to spend huge sums on players hitting their 30s; best case scenario their impact will be relatively short lived, worst case they regress massively like Schweinsteiger or Sanchez.
That Woodward wants to sign players with longevity in mind is a great thing considering how United have built up over the years. We (the caf) are already discussing a Matic replacement after under 2 seasons and I guarantee we would be thinking the same for Perisic and Alderweireld in a season or two if we signed them. Instead we're being linked with players like Sancho and Neves who could line out for United for a decade.
this is just incredible revisionism there. Woodward may not be Gill but he is hardly this incompetent buffoon people like to pretend he is to just blame all of our problems on. None of those things you mentioned were being scoffed at in hindsight. Moyes was signed because of SAF's explicit say so and that was when Woody himself was just learning the ropes. Considering the situation at the time we couldn't have afforded to lose Rooney to Chelsea during a period of uncertainty even though by some accounts SAF was sounding out clubs and plotting his sale. LVGs appointment was met with a lot of delight here and certainly then at the time he was probably the only candidate who was available after leading Netherlands to a 3rd place finish in the WC. You could argue we took too long to sack him in the 2nd season but he had done a commendable job in his first season getting us top 4 and even in the 2nd quite a few young kids were brought through and we won the FA cup after a long time, not to mention only missing out on top 4 by GD despite the awful football. For the signings i suppose you could say that that is one area where our lack of clarity has impacted us the most as our incompatible succession of managers as regards playing style and the instability has meant that quite a few promising players got a raw deal. Even so, to really gauge the merit of a decision one needs to evaluate the general mood and reaction at the time. Almost all our signings from mata to Fred who have flattered to deceive were welcomed here initially and supposed to take us back to the top. You cannot blame Woodward for many of them not working out IMO. If the news that he vetoed Mourinho's targets this summer are true that is a factor in his favor IMO as he quite rightly didn't think much of signing an ageing, injury prone Alderweireld./Maguire/ whichever CB Mourinho wanted after he had already signed 2 and had quite a few at his disposal. So too the pursuit of Perisic and Willian which again supposedly he vetoed because it would have meant Martial would have left the club.
When it's needed he has shown the subjective discretion to overrule and make a decision on his feet. Rewind to January last year and it was believed that Mourinho was doing a good job after winning us 2 trophies and improving the squad even if we were quite a distant 2nd to City, so to show trust in him he gave him a new contract. I'm sure Mourinho would have found a way to complain about the fact that we aren't showing enough trust in him if we hadn't done that. He can't be blamed for not being able to see the absolute car crash of a season and summer we would go onto have because he didn't give Mourinho everything he wanted, quite rightly expecting the bare minimum of professionalism to be displayed under the circumstances and everything since then has just seen him vindicated. The DOF is something he would have sat down and discussed with Ole too I'm sure so if they decide that the system currently doesn't require another layer between him and the manager then we should proceed similarly. We don't need to sign a DOF like we have been trying to sign players believing the next knee jerk panic recruit is the silver bullet for our issues.
Somebody at OT definitely reads RedCafe. It's funny how the second we start talking about Woodward again we get these briefings.
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