Man Utd set to appoint Director of Football (when hell freezes over)

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Cliche Guevara said:
It’s called humour mate. Calm down.

That being said. How does a DoF know the market better than a manager, head coach or CEO?

How do you know if Ole got sacked it would be partially due to the wrong signings?

How does a DoF from Seville know a United player better than Ole?

How do you judge the quality of a DoF signings when they’re then immediately placed in the hands of the manager?

And if Ole was made DoF he’d then suddenly know more about the market, by your logic.

It’s like everything else, it’s about having the right people making the right decisions. Not about structure.

This Cult of DoF is getting beyond ridiculous now.
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The "cult of Dof" as you put is isn't ridiculous, it's how every single modern club operates. The most successful teams in Europe over the last decade all have a Dof. Are we so special that we can operate differently and achieve the same success? Evidently not, seeing as we've been a laughing stock since Ferguson left.
 
From DOF to Technical Director. From Berta and Mitchel to Murtough or Phelan. Woodward will never give up power. All we can do is hope Ole and his team can develop that long term outlook a DOF would've done.
 
sam147 said:
From DOF to Technical Director. From Berta and Mitchel to Murtough or Phelan. Woodward will never give up power. All we can do is hope Ole and his team can develop that long term outlook a DOF would've done.
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Murtough has potential to be very good at the role. He was very highly thought of when he was brought in 6 years ago.
 
Adnan said:
Murtough has potential to be very good at the role. He was very highly thought of when he was brought in 6 years ago.
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That may be true. However, promoting in-house always shows a desire to keep a level of control. Murtough can potentially be good but it will be pointless if Woodward is still overcomplicating everything and looking at things from his 'bankers' view.
 
sam147 said:
That may be true. However, promoting in-house always shows a desire to keep a level of control. Murtough can potentially be good but it will be pointless if Woodward is still overcomplicating everything and looking at things from his 'bankers' view.
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That is the whole point of this but. Its installing an individual that understands Manchester United and the qualities that define our club and putting process in place that give continuation of that beyond a manager. Its all about Control.
 
sam147 said:
That may be true. However, promoting in-house always shows a desire to keep a level of control. Murtough can potentially be good but it will be pointless if Woodward is still overcomplicating everything and looking at things from his 'bankers' view.
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Mental statement. So no one can ever get a promotion in an organisation?
 
Lash said:
Mental statement. So no one can ever get a promotion in an organisation?
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Internal promotions might make sense if the organisation is doing well. Its really not the case here. Also what experience does this murtough guy has as DOF? The last I checked he was one of Moyes men. Which doesn't really fills me with confidence
 
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devilish said:
Internal promotions might make sense if the organisation is doing well. Its really not the case here. Also what experience does this murtough guy has as DOF?
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Or growing, which you could argue we are. Found this from an article:

John Murtough, the Premier League’s former head of elite performance and Everton’s ex-academy chief. Murtough has been serving as United’s head of football development since 2013, a role which bears passing resemblance to that of a sporting director and one that saw him play a large role in steadying the academy ship when it was drifting and rudderless around 2015.

Sounds like a good enough CV, if he interviewed well enough, no reason he shouldn’t be given the opportunity.
 
Lash said:
Or growing, which you could argue we are. Found this from an article:

John Murtough, the Premier League’s former head of elite performance and Everton’s ex-academy chief. Murtough has been serving as United’s head of football development since 2013, a role which bears passing resemblance to that of a sporting director and one that saw him play a large role in steadying the academy ship when it was drifting and rudderless around 2015.

Sounds like a good enough CV, if he interviewed well enough, no reason he shouldn’t be given the opportunity.
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He is one of the guys Moyes brought from Everton, the same who tried and failed to replace SAF's men while gifting us with talent like fellaini. Its hardly fills me with confidence.

Ole as permanent manager, murtough promoted internally, it seems the club wants to keep the wage bill low. I wonder if the club is at the brink of being sold
 
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Lash said:
Mental statement. So no one can ever get a promotion in an organisation?
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Not when the organisation is suffering from years of underinvestment and needs someone who has a proven track record in building great squads. Berta is the man we need. If Woodward promotes Murtaugh do you really believe he will have any control? He will have an advisory role and Woodward can easily brush aside anything he says. What we need is a guy Woodward gives a budget to and he does the rest.
 
devilish said:
He is one of the guys Moyes brought from Everton, the same who tried and failed to replace SAF's men while gifting us with talent like fellaini. Its hardly inspires me with confidence.
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Well, no that wasn’t his role. He oversees youth contracts, scouts and development.
 
sam147 said:
Not when the organisation is suffering from years of underinvestment and needs someone who has a proven track record in building great squads. Berta is the man we need. If Woodward promotes Murtaugh do you really believe he will have any control? He will have an advisory role and Woodward can easily brush aside anything he says. What we need is a guy Woodward gives a budget to and he does the rest.
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Why would Berta have any less/more control? Seems irrelevant for you who we put there, as you don’t think Woodward is going to relinquish any control anyway.
 
Lash said:
Well, no that wasn’t his role. He oversees youth contracts, scouts and development.
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Still the leap from Everton to Manchester United is huge.That was quite evident during Moyes attempt of evertonise us with these likes of people

This promotion (alongside ole's) at a time when united need quality people on top is strange especially since we all know that Woody is a sucker for big names. It seems the club wants to keep salaries low at all cost which would give a new administration more room to implement the changes they might want. I wonder if the club is on sale tbh
 
Feels like Utd is refusing to get someone in who is on the front foot of modern football‘s tactical evolution.

If Poch had been the next manager, it might have been okay to find an internal solution for DoF since he has the required tactical nous to produce a sustainable playing style up to par with other great managers like Pep and Klopp.

Now Ole feels like a company man (“this is the old Utd, it feels like Utd again etc.“) and I‘m not saying he‘s a bad choice because clearly he‘s done a good job, but he is still away from the category of the best tactical minds in the business and that is why some DoF who has a big influence on the playing style and builds the squad accordingly would be better, like Txiki did at City.
 
devilish said:
Still the leap from Everton to Manchester United is huge.That was quite evident during Moyes attempt of evertonise us with these likes of people

This promotion (alongside ole's) at a time when united need quality people on top is strange especially since we all know that Woody is a sucker for big names. It seems the club wants to keep salaries low at all cost which would give a new administration more room to implement the changes they might want. I wonder if the club is on sale tbh
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Yeah, I think the fellaini signing can be pinned squarely at moyes’ door.

I don’t see it as that strange, considering they need to work well with the manager. Now ole is the manager, they may get on like a house on fire and have the same philosophy. He may have put together a 5 year plan that blew them away. You should always look internally before trying to hire externally. There’s no guarantee an external hire would be a success, it’s less of a risk. Seems pragmatic when we’re in quite a precarious position around our CL involvement.
 
Don Alfredo said:
Feels like Utd is refusing to get someone in who is on the front foot of modern football‘s tactical evolution.

If Poch had been the next manager, it might have been okay to find an internal solution for DoF since he has the required tactical nous to produce a sustainable playing style up to par with other great managers like Pep and Klopp.

Now Ole feels like a company‘s man (“this is the old Utd, it feels like Utd again etc.“) and I‘m not saying he‘s a bad choice because clearly he‘s done a good job, but he is still away from the category of the best tactical minds in the business and that is why some DoF who has a big influence on the playing style and builds the squad accordingly would be better, like Txiki did at City.
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Whilst I agree to an extent, Berta, for example doesn’t have a big influence on the playing style? That’s quite clearly Simeones doing. If they like what Ole is doing and ole can espouse the values to someone, who in turn can apply that to their transfer strategy, not sure what the need is for anyone external. They just have to show joined up thinking, now the manager is permanently signed.
 
Red Dreams said:
My guess would have been VDS or Evra as an outside bet.
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Why Evra? What’s he achieved? May as well hire Cantona or Schmeichel who has been begging for it. Evra just behaves like a clown on social media. He’s not ready to be a director of football of a league 2 team let alone the biggest club in the country.
 
Lash said:
Yeah, I think the fellaini signing can be pinned squarely at moyes’ door.

I don’t see it as that strange, considering they need to work well with the manager. Now ole is the manager, they may get on like a house on fire and have the same philosophy. He may have put together a 5 year plan that blew them away. You should always look internally before trying to hire externally. There’s no guarantee an external hire would be a success, it’s less of a risk. Seems pragmatic when we’re in quite a precarious position around our CL involvement.
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Prior to his appointment Ole and murtough has never worked with one another. Also Ole represents SAF men while Murtough represents the Evertonisation of United lead by the chosen one. I assure you SAF's men do not like the Moyes men very much and for a very good reason.

I might be wrong but moving murtough to a role he has never worked in sounds like musical chairs to me. If you then take it into the contest of us going for ole whose on a short contract and possibly a low salary then the impression I'm getting is that of a transitional team which would stir the ship while it will concurrently won't cost alot to replace. Considering that Woody loves the big names I suspect that the club is indeed on sale
 
Don Alfredo said:
Feels like Utd is refusing to get someone in who is on the front foot of modern football‘s tactical evolution.

If Poch had been the next manager, it might have been okay to find an internal solution for DoF since he has the required tactical nous to produce a sustainable playing style up to par with other great managers like Pep and Klopp.

Now Ole feels like a company man (“this is the old Utd, it feels like Utd again etc.“) and I‘m not saying he‘s a bad choice because clearly he‘s done a good job, but he is still away from the category of the best tactical minds in the business and that is why some DoF who has a big influence on the playing style and builds the squad accordingly would be better, like Txiki did at City.
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Can't lie, my feelings are a bit like this, in theory he could be perfect for the Glazers, won't want to rock the boat or challenge anyones authority or ability.

Fine if things are going well, but if we start dipping in form, yeah it'll be interesting to see what happens.
 
devilish said:
He is one of the guys Moyes brought from Everton, the same who tried and failed to replace SAF's men while gifting us with talent like fellaini. Its hardly fills me with confidence.

Ole as permanent manager, murtough promoted internally, it seems the club wants to keep the wage bill low. I wonder if the club is at the brink of being sold
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Murtough was the Premier Leagues head of elite development before he joined us. We didn't poach him from Everton.

I also agree with you that a takeover could be on the cards.
 
Adnan said:
Murtough was the Premier Leagues head of elite development before he joined us. We didn't poach him from Everton.

I also agree with you that a takeover could be on the cards.
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My mistake. However he did work with Moyes at Everton.
 
Adnan said:
He did well for Everton too..

"Moyes worked with Murtough at Everton, where he was Head of Performance until joining the Premier League in October 2012, and where he played a pivotal part in the academy that produced Wayne Rooney and Ross Barkley"
http://www.espn.co.uk/football/news/story/_/id/1616931/man-united-make-approach-john-murtough
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I am pretty sure he did well there else he wouldn't have been kept at United. However, he lacks the experience in the DOF job + he is part of a team Moyes brought in to Evertonise Manchester United, something that caused great rift at OT during the time and lead to people like Phelan leaving or getting sacked. I find it therefore strange that a SAF's loyalist like Ole is would want to promote him of all people.

Not to forget that Murtough's experience rotates mostly with youths, something he's done well at Everton and at United. Why would anyone move someone whose doing well in something so important for us (ie the academy) in a different role? SAF had a god in the youth academy in the name of Eric Harrison. He never moved him from that role didn't he?

The only conclusion I can come out is that we're trying to keep the salary bill as low as possible by not adding new people if we can. I was thrilled we signed Ole but his appointment is also a bit iffy as we all know that Woodward loves the big names. Which can only be answered by one of the following

a- United's financial situation isn't as good as we're think they are.
b- The Glazers are tightening the belt
c- We are at the brink of being sold.
 
Micheal Edwards
Zorc
Monchi

Are all three of best sporting directors and all of them were internal appointmenrs(monchi and zorc had just retired as players) and all of them were made DOF without having their experience elsewhere. Txixi was made Barcelona DOF without having any prior experience.

I don't get the pessimism over the internal appointment of a DOF if it's Bout and Mourtagh. People tend to over analyze things here.
 
Don't think an internal appointment is as bad as you guys make out. The important thing is any appointment should be allowed to work.
 
KM said:
Micheal Edwards
Zorc
Monchi

Are all three of best sporting directors and all of them were internal appointmenrs(monchi and zorc had just retired as players) and all of them were made DOF without having their experience elsewhere. Txixi was made Barcelona DOF without having any prior experience.

I don't get the pessimism over the internal appointment of a DOF if it's Bout and Mourtagh. People tend to over analyze things here.
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Its just that few are hyped with hipster names. Monchi for all the name he got for his work at Sevilla, was poor for Roma.

Also Michael Edwards is a very good example. He didn't have experience as DoF but he is working well for Liverpool.
 
devilish said:
I am pretty sure he did well there else he wouldn't have been kept at United. However, he lacks the experience in the DOF job + he is part of a team Moyes brought in to Evertonise Manchester United, something that caused great rift at OT during the time and lead to people like Phelan leaving or getting sacked. I find it therefore strange that a SAF's loyalist like Ole is would want to promote him of all people.

Not to forget that Murtough's experience rotates mostly with youths, something he's done well at Everton and at United. Why would anyone move someone whose doing well in something so important for us (ie the academy) in a different role? SAF had a god in the youth academy in the name of Eric Harrison. He never moved him from that role didn't he?

The only conclusion I can come out is that we're trying to keep the salary bill as low as possible by not adding new people if we can. I was thrilled we signed Ole but his appointment is also a bit iffy as we all know that Woodward loves the big names. Which can only be answered by one of the following

a- United's financial situation isn't as good as we're think they are.
b- The Glazers are tightening the belt
c- We are at the brink of being sold.
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Or the most logical conclusion is you are just pessimist who loves to moan about everything.
 
roonster09 said:
Its just that few are hyped with hipster names. Monchi for all the name he got for his work at Sevilla, was poor for Roma.

Also Michael Edwards is a very good example. He didn't have experience as DoF but he is working well for Liverpool.
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Neither of the three I listed had any experience as DOF when they joined the respective clubs. I think if you count DOFs then all of the three deserve to be amongst the very top.
 
KM said:
Neither of the three I listed had any experience as DOF when they joined the respective clubs. I think if you count DOFs then all of the three deserve to be amongst the very top.
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Yeah, this is same like promoting managers internally. People see how Liverpool failed in 90s and think internal appointment (or players who played for them) is bad ignoring all the success stories or how superb clubs of today have so many ex players playing key roles.
 
KM said:
Micheal Edwards
Zorc
Monchi

Are all three of best sporting directors and all of them were internal appointmenrs(monchi and zorc had just retired as players) and all of them were made DOF without having their experience elsewhere. Txixi was made Barcelona DOF without having any prior experience.

I don't get the pessimism over the internal appointment of a DOF if it's Bout and Mourtagh. People tend to over analyze things here.
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Personally I would want to see an overseas appointment due to bringing some continental approach. Most of the top clubs are doing that in the recent times (Chelsea, City, Pool) and are doing well in the league.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Personally I would want to see an overseas appointment due to bringing some continental approach. Most of the top clubs are doing that in the recent times (Chelsea, City, Pool) and are doing well in the league.
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Liverpool have Micheal Edwards(who was an internal appointment). Chelsea don't have a DOF right now and are struggling with transfers.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Personally I would want to see an overseas appointment due to bringing some continental approach. Most of the top clubs are doing that in the recent times (Chelsea, City, Pool) and are doing well in the league.
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Liverpool's DoF is Michael Edwards, he is English and internal appointment.
 
KM said:
Liverpool have Micheal Edwards(who was an internal appointment). Chelsea don't have a DOF right now and are struggling with transfers.
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I meant with backroom staff, player recruits, tactics, etc...
 
Enigma_87 said:
I meant with backroom staff, player recruits, tactics, etc...
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Their player recruits is handled by Micheal Edwards. I'm not really sure what point you're making. Their manager is Klopp so tactics and backroom staff come under him. This thread is for DOF.
 
KM said:
Their player recruits is handled by Micheal Edwards. I'm not really sure what point you're making. Their manager is Klopp so tactics and backroom staff come under him. This thread is for DOF.
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My point is someone like Monchi or Zorc would give us fresher ideas and different views. Bringing someone internal most likely won't change our approach(purely speculative of course).
 
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