True, that in no way makes him ignorant or an egomaniac.
Man Utd set to appoint Director of Football (when hell freezes over)
- Thread starter RedMachine03
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I personally think Woodward was correct not wanting players above a certain age. Mourinho is thinking short-term and his own personal record wanting ready made experienced players. That's not good planning from the clubs perspective.
Its not unfair in my view because I do feel at some point the lack of on field success will start hitting our revenue . Be it any business the on field success is a must to keep the business going . The fans have been very patient till now and hoping for a change . The worse thing one can do is take something for granted . There will come a point when opinions start changing and fans start moving away too . One cannot sit on the past laurels forever . I know the management is trying to move us forward but making that statement comes off as a little arrogant . In your view its not that bad and its unfair on Woodward which I totally understand but its better to say more encouraging stuff to your shareholders .
About the other point if the board didnt believe in Mourinho's philosophy then they should have fired him in the summer instead of letting this circus continue and jeopardizing the whole season . The situation currently we are in now was plainly clear from the start . Our pre season was a disaster while Mourinho's relationship with some of our players was going not well . Add to that they didn't support him in the transfer window either . So the management should have been clear about their stance from the start instead of letting things get worse .
I think you're absolutely right, with two caveats:
1. You hire Mourinho, you have to arm him with the players he needs. If you want him to develop a load of future world stars, well, that's not really his thing, is it? So you're essentially admitting you hired the wrong man for the job.
2. I can see Woodward's point about the likes of Alderweireld, but Woodward, with his 0 years of actual football experience, shouldn't be the man making that judgement. If you've decided that you want to dictate to Mourinho the profile of player that the club are willing to sign, then you need someone with genuine football pedigree, or a structure, that allows that decision to be made by the right people.
Evra would be my favourite. No idea about his coaching skills but he gets what the club means. He'd be an inspirational speaker.
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I have one caveat to your caveat and it's that when Mourinho was hired maybe he gave the impression that he was going to plan for long term which is something that many fans assumed and why they thought that he could be a new SAF.
This appointment should be top priority. Appoint DoF, fire Mou, carry out the season with caretaker manager (if necessary) and work behind the scenes for a new manager and players.
You're right.
Woodward does need that extra layer of footballing experience otherwise he's a sitting duck for those rightly pointing fingers over his zero footballing pedigree. We just have to hope he doesn't overrule DoF, if one is hired.
We'll be stepping up our search many more times. Of that, I assure you.
Our current DoF will not relinquish his power so easily and even if we did bring in a DoF, I think Woodie would have the final say on transfers or managerial appointments. I doubt anything would change.
And let's be honest, as a business, why would the owners want anything to change? We are more popular and making more money than we ever were/heave.
We needed to win the title, mate.
If you can't see that, then I don't know what to say. We can think about the future, but the most important thing is the "now".
I'd rather win the title this year and then worry about next year, at the time.
Jose needed the new recruits to get the job done (win the league title). He didn't get them and now the whole plan is falling apart.
In any case, it is up to Jose to get the club back on track and I am not longer sure he can do it.
The club has supported him financially. He has purchased most of the team. If he can't get them to play at a decent level then the finger points only in one direction. I think it was unlikely even if Mourinho got his transfer wishes fulfilled United would have won the title.
Because he thinks he knows enough about football to tell Mourinho what players he can buy. I see no reason why a DOF would have the authority to pick the next manager.
Seeing how well his Lille have started the season in Ligue 1 and how his former team Monaco have sunk (now replenished with Michael Emenalo signings), I think Luis Campos is the right man for us.
Looking at his record -
In 2012-2013, he was a scout for Jose Mourinho's Real Madrid. Their only signings that year were Modric for 30 Mill. € and Diego Lopez for 3.5 Mill. €. He might have contributed to the next Summer's transfers - Isco, Carvajal and Casemiro for a combined 42.5 Mill. € (but let's not mention Bale at 101 Mill. € and Illarramendi at 32 Mill. €
).
As Monaco sporting director, he signed James Rodriquez, Martial, Fabinho, Abdennour, Bernardo Silva, Bakayoko, Cavaleiro, Rony Lopes, Jemerson, Carrillo (not great player but huge profit to Southampton), Saint-Maximin and Lemar while instructing the club to sign Sidibe, Glik, Mendy and Jorge in the window following his departure.
As for financial stats -
2013:
Spent = 160,70 Mill. €
Received = 4,75 Mill. €
2014:
Spent = 39,75 Mill. €
Received = 89,12 Mill. €
2015:
Spent = 101,06 Mill. €
Received = 185,15 Mill. €
2016 (he had left his post but recommended incoming signings):
Spent = 50,50 Mill. €
Received = 18,20 Mill. €
Campos' scouting genius led to Monaco receiving 244,50 Mill. € in fees in 2017 and helped them to receiving 316,85 Mill. € in 2018.
At Lille, it's fairly early to judge his signings as he's only had 4 transfer windows but Nicolas Pepe has been excellent. Thiago Maia, Jonathan Bamba, Rafael Leao, Jonathan Ikone, Thiago Mendes and Xeka appear to be good talents. Lots of academy players have been promoted in Campos' time too, including Hamza Mendyl who Schalke signed for 7 Mill. € after only a season.
Jan 2017:
Spent = 20,70 Mill. €
Received = 0
2017:
Spent = 64,00 Mill. €
Received = 31,10 Mill. €
2018:
Spent = 8,90 Mill. €
Received = 60,20 Mill. €
He's a friend of Jose Mourinho so either we stick with Jose and try to make it work with a better setup around him or sack Jose before Campos is brought in (my preference). One structural issue we'd face is that Campos prefers to surround himself with a small team of super scouts as opposed to the recently assembled army of scouts worldwide that we now operate with. I hope this happens though and hope Campos can help recommend a quality manager/coach in the same way he identifies quality players.
Sounds like a good shout !
Hallelujah.
Delaying signing Fellaini for too long and then over paying for Fellaini
That's been explained to death previously umpteen times, if you don't want to except it that's fine, and if you'd rated the player, or he was flavour of the month you or anybody else that brings it up again(yawn)wouldn't have give two shits whether we paid a extra £4m or not, plus Ed would've got more grief(and I know that's hard to imagine) if he'd brought nobody in.
Appointing David Moyes He rubber-stamped it yeah, but he was never gonna go against SAF and the rest of the board wishes 5 minutes into the job
Waiting far too long to sack Moyes Yeah cos it's a decision you make at the drop of a hat, we're Manchester United ffs, not Real Madrid or Chelsea
Appointing LVG Nowt wrong with that, it was the correct call
Buying players LVG didn't want Did he ?
Waiting too long to sack LVG Maybe like some of us he could see the progress being made.
And then sacking LVG the day after he won a cup - with the news being leaked on Cup final day Make your mind up, you wanted him sacked
Constantly being reported as wasting time pursuing unattainable players (Neymar and Varane spring to mind) Reported !?
Buying players Jose doesn't want Evidence?
Deciding he knows what represents what's best for the squad over Jose... But still keeping faith with Jose He knows what's best for the club, that's different
Briefing the media against Jose, but still keeping faith in Jose ?
As of right now he hasn't sacked Jose I know, the little shit, Ed out !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There's probably more in terms of player contracts and stuff too
Doesn't look like he's talking about football style. More like management style.
Enough with that. It was a board decision, based on Fergie's recommendation. And Woodward wasn't even in charge. From Sky's article about Gill's departure in 2013:
"Executive vice chairman Ed Woodward will assume Gill's responsibilities when his tenure ends on 30 June".
It is a wild assumption to assume Woodward would just drop a player on Mourinho. It is even wilder to assume Mourinho would shut up about it.
Manchester United PLC down 15% in the last 30 days. Even if what happens on the pitch is of no concern/interest to Woody/owners, the stock price certainly is.
So I should believe the teamtalk and balls?
You can't seriously blame him for not paying 75m for Alderweireld.
You have to draw the line somewhere at these crazy prices.
We overpay for every player and we overpay wages for every player already.
You have to draw the line somewhere at these crazy prices.
We overpay for every player and we overpay wages for every player already.
Where was the backing? He promised Moyes he would sign Muller, Fabregas, Thiago and Bale. We all thought it was Moyes' foolishness to aim for such targets, but it is clear as day now it was Woodward prosmising him these targets, that's why we couldn't hear the end of the moaning from
Moyes.
Ended up panic signing Felliani and Mata.
Horrible backing for Moyes. He has only backed LVG decently well.
im just showing you the headlinesSo I should believe the teamtalk and balls?
The target was to buy a player like Fabregas and Bale, that's correct.
We did offer more money for Bale but he only wanted to join Real Madrid.
It was a lot of talk about Fabregas leaving Barcelona because of playing time so wouldn't be surprised if his agents was in contact with United.
Moyes was not a new young manager with no experience regarding transfer dealings.
Sure not as big transfers like the one United can make but he still should have known better.
Van Gaal second transfer window did look pretty great.
Didn't a lot of fans say that Schneiderlin was the perfect midfielder?
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We dont know that he didnt enquire about them and they turned him down. In fact apart from Veron I cant think of a WC player we signed from a foreign club at the top of his game under Fergie, and look how that turned out. RVN Ronaldo Stam Schmeichel Kanchelskis etc all made their name here.
Shite sources. I mean, balls.ie..
The idea that "we're Manchester United" not Madrid or Chelsea thus we shouldn't be sacking managers has to die... I mean, we wouldn't persist with a player who was massively under-performing and clearly out of his depth - so why do it with a manager? And it would be hardly at a drop of a hat either - we were losing a feck-ton of games and playing shite football in the process.
I could go on and argue points, but I mean, if you really think that there was progress in getting knocked out to Wolfsburg in the CL then I mean... whats the point?
And I could list numerous teams lower down the rankings than Wolfsburg that knocked us out of Europe when the great man SAF was in charge and we were the dominant team in the country, but as you say, what is the point ?
I'm not a big fan of Ed when it comes to footballing decisions. One thing that surprises me though is that, if the politics and infrastructure at United is so toxic, why have neither Moyes or LVG gone to town and spilt the beans on it?
Gentleman's agreement? Gagging order? No real axe to grind?
Will it be the same for Jose when he departs?
Gentleman's agreement? Gagging order? No real axe to grind?
Will it be the same for Jose when he departs?
Gagging order I would bet on
They moaned about our club all the time, but everytime they do the fans here say they are failed dinosaurs who should shut their mouths.
That's the going rate. Get used to it. In fact, in a few years, Toby @ £75M will be considered a steal.
Let's look at the alternative: we don't buy him and make do with poor defenders and we end up in 10th, after 7 matches.
Which do you prefer, Toby for £75M or 10th place after 7 EPL matches?
I know which I'd prefer.
It's well known that Lindelof was a "value" signing by the higher ups after Mou asked for a defender. Alexis and Pogba weren't Jose signings either. Pogba had been discussed by the club since about 2014. Matic, Bailly, Ibra and Lukaku are players Mou wanted, the rest can be considered club signings that Jose should take no blame for.
Well known by who? It just seems like you spliced together bits and pieces of every non-credible rumour that absolves Jose of all his buys. The alexis one is especially untrue because everything that came from Jose at the time was a sparking endorsement of the transfer
Its pretty ludicrous to put those "alternatives" against each other. They dont even have a common denominator. And even if they did; htf do you pretend to know that a 75m Aldeiwereld would mean anthying better (or less) than the shitshow we have had so far result-wise?
Where has it ever been said Woodward promised players to Moyes? Bale took one look at Moyes and said feck that I'm off to Madrid, despite us offering a bigger fee and I presume better terms. I would not be surprised in the least if the other three had serious doubts about him either. Only so much Ed can do in that situation (i.e. he can only throw money at it and if that doesn't work he's screwed). Moyes was clearly a huge turn off to any potential signings, so we were left with the scraps.
Moyes is also a serial fecking moaner.
Ed backed LVG and has also backed Mourinho to the tune of I don't know how many hundreds of millions of pounds. Eventually the tap has to be turned off. £75m for a 30 year old Toby, you are having a fecking laugh.
One fair criticism is that he has been indecisive with Mourinho. He must have been having doubts as the signs things were going south were there during preaseason. He clearly needs to sack him now before things get an awful lot worse.
To say Ed hasn't backed his managers though is absolutely incorrect.
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