Man Utd set to appoint Director of Football (when hell freezes over)

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It’s hard to argue against a man who gets you Oblak, Alderweireld, Gimenez and Griezmann for less than 50m and even when he makes a mistake a la Martinez doesn’t do too much damage financially however surely Mitchell is running him close. Dele Ali, Dier and Trippier for what 20m combined. He also brought Werner to RB Leipzig.

Zorc, Monchi and Henrique should also be considered.

I don’t know about the Juventus guy(Patrici) being on the shortlist because we heard it all before. A lot of his signings were being attributed to Ribalta no? I know he was only here a year and we don’t know what groundwork he did behind the scenes however you would imagine Dalot was a Mourinho connection and Fred was a club signing. He wanted Goretza and Can but you’d expect a little bit more from him.

To be honest I heard a lot at the time that Ribalta wasn't really a loss for Juve and that he wasn't the main guy.

Also with Berta I get the feeling that many of those signings were not all his doing, he wasn't even the DoF there until recently.

However someone thats been at a club doing that sort of business would be an upgrade for us.
 
I get the impression that Ribalta was bought in with the intention of being groomed into the DoF role. For whatever reason that didnt work out but im glad we're holding out for the right candidate. And i definitely dont think a DoF appointment is knee jerk, we've been after one for a few years now when we were chasing Monchi
 
All gone quiet in this thread, though now the dust has settled I'm curious.... do people who backed the plane/banner view it was a success?
 
I get the impression that Ribalta was bought in with the intention of being groomed into the DoF role. For whatever reason that didnt work out but im glad we're holding out for the right candidate. And i definitely dont think a DoF appointment is knee jerk, we've been after one for a few years now when we were chasing Monchi

Judging with how behind we are on the times it's more likely he wasn't getting as much power as he expected. I don't have any faith in Woodward/board to actually allow someone to have more power than them when it comes to a player
 
Judging with how behind we are on the times it's more likely he wasn't getting as much power as he expected. I don't have any faith in Woodward/board to actually allow someone to have more power than them when it comes to a player
No club has a situation like that
 
I’d be so surprised if the board got this decision right and the eventual DOF would get enough freedom in his role. Yes the brass have invested heavily but we are a complete circus and we don’t look like winning anything anytime soon If things don’t change pretty drastically!
 
Just wondering, what makes you believe he's so good?
Well Atletico's player recruitment and signings over the past 5-10 years has been excellent and if he is the man mostly responsible (behind) that then well...yeah. Whoever has been doing Atletico's signings over this time, they've done really well. In terms of their team they seem to just get top keeper after top keeper lately or top striker after top striker. De Gea, Courtois (on loan though) and then Oblak for the goalkeeper position. Forlan, Aguero, Falcao, Costa, Griezmann for the striker position.

So yeah, idk, I just think that out of all of the clubs in Europe Atletico has maybe recruited the best over the last decade when you talk about spending relative to their budget in particular. Whoever is in charge of their recruitment (I assume its their current DoF), they seem to be really good at signing those mid-priced players who end up being really top quality players. I don't want us to get a director of football who will get us those 6M pound hidden gems, thats a bit too unproven maybe for United. I just want us to be getting good players and not paying a fortune for them (eg. 50M plus). Imagine if we just went out and signed all of these (say 5) 20-40M pound players one transfer window and most of them turned out to be quality like so many of Atletico's signings have been (players like Alderweireld and more in addition to the above).

I must say though I think that RB Leipzig's current one (head of recruitment) has a super impressive record so I would be pretty happy if we got him in.

I want United to have the best in the business working here behind the scenes. Proper footballing people making the signings, not Ed Woodward. Even if they are a bit of a yes man, at least when Ed and Jose theoretically don't agree on signings there might then be somebody who can suggest an alternative. eg. Jose is like "I want Toby" and Ed is like "nah, too expensive for his age" and then there is seemingly just some kind of standstill after that. But now hopefully you'd have a third guy who would be like "well how about Manolas", just for instance.

Is Andrea Berta the man behind a lot of their signings over the last 5 years? eg. Griezmann and Oblak.
 
When people in the club talked about DoF, I bet Ed Woodward was thinking about Department of Finance so He just dismissed it and said "All is going well, don't worry about the DoF".

The same people then thought Woodward sorted it and briefed the media but We've never actually tried to appoint anyone other than a new lad to wear Fred The Red costume as a part of our yearly internship program.
 
Excessive use of smilies
When people in the club talked about DoF, I bet Ed Woodward was thinking about Department of Finance so He just dismissed it and said "All is going well, don't worry about the DoF".

The same people then thought Woodward sorted it and briefed the media but We've never actually tried to appoint anyone other than a new lad to wear Fred The Red costume as a part of our yearly internship program.
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
 
While we’re at it, I’ve heard really good things about the tea lady at Charlton Athletic, we should try and get her. She’s really good at quickly filling the tea urn and she changes up her teabag selection based on what’s on special offer each week.

She’s served tea to some top players over time, including a young Scott Minto.
 
Apparently responsible for Griezmann and Oblak, albeit, surely Griezmann was well known by the time Ath Madrid signed him? I think even we were linked with him briefly back then?
Correct. Griezmann was a part of the exciting Sociedad team that involved Carlos Vela and Illaramendi.
 
Well Atletico's player recruitment and signings over the past 5-10 years has been excellent and if he is the man mostly responsible (behind) that then well...yeah. Whoever has been doing Atletico's signings over this time, they've done really well. In terms of their team they seem to just get top keeper after top keeper lately or top striker after top striker. De Gea, Courtois (on loan though) and then Oblak for the goalkeeper position. Forlan, Aguero, Falcao, Costa, Griezmann for the striker position.

So yeah, idk, I just think that out of all of the clubs in Europe Atletico has maybe recruited the best over the last decade when you talk about spending relative to their budget in particular. Whoever is in charge of their recruitment (I assume its their current DoF), they seem to be really good at signing those mid-priced players who end up being really top quality players. I don't want us to get a director of football who will get us those 6M pound hidden gems, thats a bit too unproven maybe for United. I just want us to be getting good players and not paying a fortune for them (eg. 50M plus). Imagine if we just went out and signed all of these (say 5) 20-40M pound players one transfer window and most of them turned out to be quality like so many of Atletico's signings have been (players like Alderweireld and more in addition to the above).

I must say though I think that RB Leipzig's current one (head of recruitment) has a super impressive record so I would be pretty happy if we got him in.

I want United to have the best in the business working here behind the scenes. Proper footballing people making the signings, not Ed Woodward. Even if they are a bit of a yes man, at least when Ed and Jose theoretically don't agree on signings there might then be somebody who can suggest an alternative. eg. Jose is like "I want Toby" and Ed is like "nah, too expensive for his age" and then there is seemingly just some kind of standstill after that. But now hopefully you'd have a third guy who would be like "well how about Manolas", just for instance.

Is Andrea Berta the man behind a lot of their signings over the last 5 years? eg. Griezmann and Oblak.

No, he only became DoF last year.
 
No, he only became DoF last year.
If that's not the case then why are we even being linked to him? If he's not behind Atletico's recent business in the last say 5 years or so then who is? Is it Simeone?
 
I completely agree. I would go for someone who as an excellent track record in building successful teams in clubs with turnovers in the region of EUR 200/300, which regularly compete in Champions League. Someone who is therefore used to negotiate at the highest level, with an outstanding network, and able to do an efficient and wise use of the resources he is given (which at Man Utd would be much higher than those he is currently used to). Monchi from Roma for example would be a good option.

Alternatively, I would make a indispensable offer to Marotta and Paratici from Juventus. Juve turnover is more than EUR 300 mn but significanly lower than Man Utd one, and these two guys managed to build a team able to regularly compete for CL. This achievement is particularly worth noting since Juve turnover has grown only in the very last seasons. Below is a list of some of the transfers they have signed in the past years, total cost is below EUR 200mn. I can’t imagine what team they would build if they had Man Utd budget

Emre Can 0
Matuidi 20
Benatia 17
Szcezny 12
Dani Alves 0
Pjanic 32
Dyabala 40
Alex Sandro 26
Manzukic 21
Khedira 0
Rugani 5
Coman 0
Tevez 9
Llorente 0
Pogba 0
Vidal 12,5
Pirlo 0
Barzagli 0,3[/B]
Imagine if they were signing those players here. "Average players + players that can barely walk" they will say.
 
We should look for a candidate from inside the club who also knows our history and tradition from Sir Alex's days.
 
I completely agree. I would go for someone who as an excellent track record in building successful teams in clubs with turnovers in the region of EUR 200/300, which regularly compete in Champions League. Someone who is therefore used to negotiate at the highest level, with an outstanding network, and able to do an efficient and wise use of the resources he is given (which at Man Utd would be much higher than those he is currently used to). Monchi from Roma for example would be a good option.

Alternatively, I would make a indispensable offer to Marotta and Paratici from Juventus. Juve turnover is more than EUR 300 mn but significanly lower than Man Utd one, and these two guys managed to build a team able to regularly compete for CL. This achievement is particularly worth noting since Juve turnover has grown only in the very last seasons. Below is a list of some of the transfers they have signed in the past years, total cost is below EUR 200mn. I can’t imagine what team they would build if they had Man Utd budget

Emre Can 0
Matuidi 20
Benatia 17
Szcezny 12
Dani Alves 0
Pjanic 32
Dyabala 40
Alex Sandro 26
Manzukic 21
Khedira 0
Rugani 5
Coman 0
Tevez 9
Llorente 0
Pogba 0
Vidal 12,5
Pirlo 0
Barzagli 0,3


The day the same Marotta and Paratici moved to United he can find the next the next David Beckham from Notts County FC and they will cost us 40M. You seems to have this grand idea that a good DOF would somehow make a player cheap and all it takes it just a few good relations and a secret handshake and suddenly we will pay peanuts for the next purchase.
 
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We should look for a candidate from inside the club who also knows our history and tradition from Sir Alex's days.

What good does it do? Honestly?

Those "history and tradition" are only good to awe youth academies player. Established players like Pogba/De Gea/Sanchez etc won't be dazed with whatever Butt has won in the past, or whatever Giggs has won in the past.
 
Well Atletico's player recruitment and signings over the past 5-10 years has been excellent and if he is the man mostly responsible (behind) that then well...yeah. Whoever has been doing Atletico's signings over this time, they've done really well. In terms of their team they seem to just get top keeper after top keeper lately or top striker after top striker. De Gea, Courtois (on loan though) and then Oblak for the goalkeeper position. Forlan, Aguero, Falcao, Costa, Griezmann for the striker position.

So yeah, idk, I just think that out of all of the clubs in Europe Atletico has maybe recruited the best over the last decade when you talk about spending relative to their budget in particular. Whoever is in charge of their recruitment (I assume its their current DoF), they seem to be really good at signing those mid-priced players who end up being really top quality players. I don't want us to get a director of football who will get us those 6M pound hidden gems, thats a bit too unproven maybe for United. I just want us to be getting good players and not paying a fortune for them (eg. 50M plus). Imagine if we just went out and signed all of these (say 5) 20-40M pound players one transfer window and most of them turned out to be quality like so many of Atletico's signings have been (players like Alderweireld and more in addition to the above).

I must say though I think that RB Leipzig's current one (head of recruitment) has a super impressive record so I would be pretty happy if we got him in.

I want United to have the best in the business working here behind the scenes. Proper footballing people making the signings, not Ed Woodward. Even if they are a bit of a yes man, at least when Ed and Jose theoretically don't agree on signings there might then be somebody who can suggest an alternative. eg. Jose is like "I want Toby" and Ed is like "nah, too expensive for his age" and then there is seemingly just some kind of standstill after that. But now hopefully you'd have a third guy who would be like "well how about Manolas", just for instance.

Is Andrea Berta the man behind a lot of their signings over the last 5 years? eg. Griezmann and Oblak.

We should poach their scouts, not their DOF.

Unless it's the DOF that does all the scouting.
 
That United you knew and loved is gone. This is Ed's 'superstars or bust' United now.

Herrera, Shaw, Schnederlin, Memphis, Blind, Martial, Bailly, Lindelof, Fred, Dalot "superstars"
 
We should poach their scouts, not their DOF.

Unless it's the DOF that does all the scouting.

TBF we have already over the past 2 years been poaching scouts from various clubs, building quite a large scouting network
 
When people in the club talked about DoF, I bet Ed Woodward was thinking about Department of Finance so He just dismissed it and said "All is going well, don't worry about the DoF".

The same people then thought Woodward sorted it and briefed the media but We've never actually tried to appoint anyone other than a new lad to wear Fred The Red costume as a part of our yearly internship program.

:lol:

I just do not see Woodward willingly relinquish his role as the DoF, to another person. Only time will tell, but I don't see an actual DoF being appointed anytime soon. We may get a puppet, who says yes to anything Woodward says, but Woodward is the DoF, who makes on-pitch decisions, based on finances.
 
:lol:

I just do not see Woodward willingly relinquish his role as the DoF, to another person. Only time will tell, but I don't see an actual DoF being appointed anytime soon. We may get a puppet, who says yes to anything Woodward says, but Woodward is the DoF, who makes on-pitch decisions, based on finances.

He isn't the DoF though, and the DoF would ultimately have to report to him as the CEO as they do at other clubs. For instance Paratici at Juve can't just sign any player without going through Moratta

The problem we have is the manager is the one always picking the players and now we are in the world of changing mangers every 2/3 years we need that separation of concerns so we can have consistency in our transfer policy and strategy over the longer term

Woodward doesn't want to deal with selecting players and managing that strategy, he wants to stay purely on the financial side of securing the deal.
 
Let's be fair. Many south american and other nation gems prefer smaller club. There they get game time and can flourish.

Put it this way. Say we have a time machine and bought oblak, griezman, kdb, hazard and all the names when they're young and cheap.

Would we give them 3 years playing mediocre football until they become the player they are today? Would we poach kdb a relatively unproven player for 40m? Would you trust the dof back then if we sold carrick and plays modric 10 years ago? And that's if they got it right.
 
Let's be fair. Many south american and other nation gems prefer smaller club. There they get game time and can flourish.

Put it this way. Say we have a time machine and bought oblak, griezman, kdb, hazard and all the names when they're young and cheap.

Would we give them 3 years playing mediocre football until they become the player they are today? Would we poach kdb a relatively unproven player for 40m? Would you trust the dof back then if we sold carrick and plays modric 10 years ago? And that's if they got it right.

We trusted SAF when he was doing it.

The thing is when Atletico bought Greizmann he was already stablished as a very good player in La Liga, same as when City bought KDB, in fact KDB was a very good talent from when Chelsea had him.

I'm not aware of a successful model of only buying established players from top clubs.
 
We trusted SAF when he was doing it.

The thing is when Atletico bought Greizmann he was already stablished as a very good player in La Liga, same as when City bought KDB, in fact KDB was a very good talent from when Chelsea had him.

I'm not aware of a successful model of only buying established players from top clubs.

City? Chelsea? Madrid?
 
So, since we haven't bought the ol' useless defenders this summer, how's the DoF appointing process going? Since Woodward learnt from his mistakes and stuff.
 
All gone quiet in this thread, though now the dust has settled I'm curious.... do people who backed the plane/banner view it was a success?

Depends on your measure of success I guess. For me it was silly and a waste of time and money, but as you say in the first part of your post, gone very quiet in here following 2 wins.

I’m sure this thread will fire up a few notches next time we lose.
 
The fact that the team is doing better doesn't hide from the fact that Woodward erred by not signing the defender Mourinho wanted and not offloading Darmian (at least on loan).
 
Hi Danoos welcome to the forum.
You make some good points there, cant fault anything you have said. I would say Sanchez is no longer playing at a level that makes him WC. Pogba cant recreate the form he did in Italy as he has to start from a deeper position. Martial would thrive in a slower paced league like Serie A. Fred is a strange transfer as although its early days, usually really good players stand out, but havent seen anything different to the other midfielders we have. Maybe hes a replacement bought early for Herrera.
The fact Mourinho was crying out for a CD, you would have thought he would have looked at a free transfer like De Vrij. Wage aside it wouldnt have cost anything. Lukaku is not WC, but hes the best striker we have and if he got injured we would be in big shit

De Vrij agreed a move to Inter before the end of last season... And then gifted them a CL spot while still playing for Lazio
 
The fact that the team is doing better doesn't hide from the fact that Woodward erred by not signing the defender Mourinho wanted and not offloading Darmian (at least on loan).

I commented in the Maguire thread but I’m relieved we didn’t go in for him in the end. Looked slow and very clumsy yesterday, if Ed pushed back on that, good call imo.
 
The thread has gone quiet because it's ultimately boring repeating the same posts over and over and over again imo.
 
I commented in the Maguire thread but I’m relieved we didn’t go in for him in the end. Looked slow and very clumsy yesterday, if Ed pushed back on that, good call imo.
Alderweireld also looks poor for Spurs who have lost their last two games...
 
Hello everyone, I am new to this forum although I have been reading it for a long time, since I am a great fan of international football and Premier League in particular.

I am Italian and from an international perspective is surprising to see how a team which is simply perfect in managing the revenues side and has become the world reference from this point of view, on the spending side has wasted an enormous amount of money without being able to build a squad better than the Juventus one (which has significantly lower revenues), nor winning anything important since Sir Alex retirement.

Let me summarize the main points I find incredible to believe:

1. In the last 6 seasons (since Ferguson retirement in summer 2013) you have spent over EUR 600 mn on net transfers. Let’s assume that in the squad of 2013 there was just De Gea and nobody else (which is obviously not the case) and you had to build a team from the scratch: this is a sum which would have been more than enough to build a team able to compete for the Champions league, also considering that transfer fees were significantly lower until 2016. Unfortunately, this is not possible if you spend approx. EUR 445 on the players below (I have restricted the list only to players still at Man Utd).

Mata 45
Fellaini 33
Shaw 37
Herrera 36
Rojo 20
Martial 60
Darmian 18
Lukaku 84
Lidendof 35
Fred 59
Dalot 22

(all figures are in EUR)


Probably none of the one in the list above would be a starter in Real Madrid, Barcelona or even Juventus. Martial is the only one which made sense, as a promising young star.


2. As a result, you have a very long squad full of overpaid “good players” or even bang average (I would include Jones, Smalling and Lingard in the list as well).

3. Team seems built up without a clear idea of what kind of football you want to play:
  • - You have a world class winger (Sanchez) but you do not have another one (unless you adapt another player to play as a winger, like Martial or Mata)
  • - You have one of the world best box-to-box midfielder but you do not have another one on the same level, so a three man midfield is compromised. And you force to play him as a defending midfielder, which is not his role and does not use his skills
  • - You have 4/5 CB, none of which is a world class one. Maybe only Bailly deserves to be in Man Utd squad, but he cannot be the leader of the defense of a team with your ambitions
  • - Martial is a “second striker”, which means he needs to play in a 2 men attack. This means that him and Sanchez (either a winger or a second striker himself) reflect different views on how you want to play.
  • - Full back are either old or bang average, despite you have invested significant money on them in the past years
  • The purchase of Fred is quite difficult to understand: he would hardly be a starter at Real or Barca and it is unclear where you would like him to play
4. In the last transfer market it was really difficult to understand your decisions:
  • I do not understand why you were unable to buy a defender. You got stuck with over expensive options like Toby or Maguire and you did not sign De Vrij (which is a real world class CB, and also young) for free. Other option would have been one between: Miranda, Godin, Manolas, Benatia, Javi Martinez…
  • Given the scarcity of world class strikers (and the fact that Lukaku is not one of them), it is unclear why you did not take advantage of the release clause of approx. EUR 100mn Icardi had up until July (by selling Lukaku, net spending would have been minimal
  • Similar reasoning applies to Milinkvic Savic. Given the scarcity of world class players, and your need to catch up with current top teams, when there is one available for sale it is necessary to get him. I believe that offloading 3/4 current “decent” players you have, would have allowed to make SMS purchase available.

All this said, I would like to hear your point of view as Man Utd fans, and why do you think there is such a huge difference between the fantastic management your club has had on the revenues side, and the disaster done on the technical and transfers one.

Look forward hearing from you!

This is a big assumptiom by me but I think United have a problem with pulling power as all other clubs of similar size are in bigger cities plus there is the English weather factor.

Throughout recent history, United struggled to get the truly top talent available at the moment. I have been following this forum for ten plus years and can tell you that the posters' wishes almost never materialize.

Then when United somehow manage to bring in proven players from outside England (Di Maria), he wants to leave. All the other signings in the last decade or so were vrought in either from England or from much smaller clubs (ie Herrera).

Self-proclaimed biggest club in the world, United lose a peak Ronaldo to Real after playing their second CL final in two years. At the same time, Real had not made the last eight in seven years at that point. Let that sink in.

Basically, United cannot compete with other clubs of similar size, and then there are smaller clubs with money that can blow United out of the wayer financially (City and PSGs).

So, United cannot compete for the Bales and Alcantaras of the world and therefore have to bring in the Matas and Hereras... At grossly inflated prices, as the sellers know United have money.

United had two spells as an European powerhouse, but those were made possible by once-in-a-lifetime class of 92 and by the perfect storm that was Ronaldo and Rooney developing in the way they have.

Given that United were never really able to bring in top talent and that finding young players first is becoming increasingly difficult nowadays due to improved scouting, the question that arises is if United can ever again becomr one of the best sides in europe.
 
The fact that the team is doing better doesn't hide from the fact that Woodward erred by not signing the defender Mourinho wanted and not offloading Darmian (at least on loan).

We were pushing for a Darmian exit all summer and his agent failed in negotiations with 3 clubs. There’s not a lot else the club could do at that point.

I’m not sure how Darmian going on loan would help anything either, he’s not a disruptive influence by any stretch and at the start of the season we were without Valencia, Young and Dalot so Darmian was needed.
 
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