Yeah yeah we know your shtick. It's telling people they've an agenda on repeat. Every other post the same.
Maguire's Redemption | One-year option triggered
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Yeah yeah we know your shtick. It's telling people they've an agenda on repeat. Every other post the same.
You think he would accept cutting his wage in half without a more significant increase in the length of the contract?
Still think he should be sold but have nothing but respect for him. Incredible mentality.
I think with 3 CB, Maguire is well protected at the back. He is less likely to be dragged out of position where he needs to recover. Maguire was never a pacy defender therefore I believe he could play another 3-4 years with United if there is no major injuries. It also helps United to buy players that we have more immediately needs like LWB and CM. Yoro is still young so he starts to cement his role in United, Maguire can slowly be a bit part player. ETH really screw United up big time with his mismanagement of the players, transfer and tactic. United might be his last big job, I even think any big club would consider hiring him.
Yes you've heard it plenty right
That depends on him and how he wants the end of his career to play out.
I'm sure the likes of West Ham can easily match that wages, as well as give him a starting role to boot
And if he wants to leave for them, then so be it, it is what it is.
I just don't think we should be that desperate to give him a 190k/w contract
Well if we tell him we are not going to trigger the extension so it is the reduced terms or try your luck somewhere else then he may well go for it. The cache of playing for United is worth a certain amount in terms of endorsements and raised profile and he also does seem to genuinely appreciate the fact that he is at a historic club with the chance to win things. He may get the same or even slightly better money for a move to the likes of West Ham but at the end of the day he would know he would be giving up on the chance of being part of something bigger here.
I don't know. Ultimately it's personal, of course, but for any job there is something psychological about being asked to do the same thing for way less money, that many people might find very objectionable. But you are right there are other factors, which also includes potentially having to move and uproot his family.
From United's point of view it seems clear we are going with the backline of three, where he fits quite well, and that we will most likely let Lindelöf and Evans go in the summer. That leaves us with Yoro, De Ligt and Martinez as the core group for those places with Maguire as back-up and Mazraoui and Shaw (when fit) able to fill the outside places. If Maguire turns down a reduced contract, we will likely have to acquire a replacement, which is also costly. I could understand going with the low risk move of simply triggering the extension and focusing the transfer efforts on fixing wing-backs, midfield and forwards.
If he is willing to accept that then fantastic. If I was his agent, I’d be advising him to stick to the +1. Seems wishful to think he’d just accept having his wages cut in half.
We don’t really have any leverage if he knows we’re struggling to finance new transfers.
Think it all depends on what kind of cash we may be able to generate with selling him. I'd do it first thing in the morning. I am very happy for him that he is able to show that he is a good player and all that but all this redemption stuff... I mean, no sorry, no interest for that. He may have been wrongly used but that could be said about other players in the past as well. Lingard, Donny, Obertan? I'd rather give the minutes to a younger player, Maguire isn't the future and while I certainly can the see the rationale behind keeping him as long as we have others areas to focus on but I wouldn't do it. He is a symbol of the failures of the club to me. Which is very very unfair to him as a player and person and I know it isn't his fault. But for a cultural reset, I'd definitely say goodbye. Just look at McTominay, for years we have been talking about how useful of a player he is and that we should stick to him - now he is gone since a year and we haven't seen a game where a reasonable person would say "deary me, if only we had a McTominay to bring on now". It will be the same thing with Maguire. It might also depend on what happens to Casemiro. I think, he could do as emergency CB.
He doesn't hold much leverage either though. Ultimately he's expendable even though it's going to be cheaper to hold onto him for a season or two given the likely departure of Evans & Lindelöf. No club is going to offer him anything close to his current salary and I'd imagine that we'd probably match other realistic offers that will come from the likes of West Ham etc. The only difference, probably (I'm going by the moneyball approach that our new management supposedly follows) is that a club like West Ham may be willing to give him a longer contract.
You can't cut in half a wage that isn't there — he's currently out of the contract in the summer, so anything that he gets, by that crude logic, will be an improvement on nothing (not that he should take any offer, of course). Glazers would've probably budged in and triggered the automatic extension (like they did multiple time) but I doubt that Berrada & co will do that.
What cash? If we're not extending him (so, not selling him), he's leaving for free in the summer.
He's not asked to do the same though. When he signed his original contract, he was signed to be the star player who's going to play the majority of minutes — any time he isn't injured or tired, basically. At the time of this potential extension he's a squad option — currently as a 4th CB in our hierarchy (since Mazraoui is seen as one in Amorim's system) with the immediate perspective or dropping down to the 5th place once Yoro gets adjusted. Not sure if Shaw's return is realistic but potentially he can drop even further down the picking line. Granted, it's not as bad as it sounds with a system that requires 3 centre backs to start and a manager who loves rotation but still.
In a very poor analogy with regular jobs, you're asked to work 3 days a week instead of 5 (and probably less intensely at that) for half the pay. Some people may like that, some people may not.
We will generate less than it would cost to replace him - we will get basically nothing for him, no one is paying much if we sold him in January and would you want to rely on Lindelof, Shaw and Evans for the rest of the season?
Unless we trigger the extension or offer a new contract he's leaving in the summer for nothing, if you're assuming we trigger the extension and then try to sell him then it would serve us right if he said no I'm staying, no one is offering him a deal that he would take and pay a transfer fee worth anything
Happy for him. He’s finally being deployed to his strengths instead of using a knife as a spoon and getting mad when the peas roll off.
You also can’t play someone in defence who isn’t there. Maguire would have to be replaced otherwise we’re down to three centre backs, not including Maz and Shaw. Obviously if Amorim sees those guys as centre backs then that might change things. But we’re likely looking at a fee and wages for any replacement.
Maguire would probably fancy his chances of getting a similar wage to what we would offer, along with a signing bonus, longer contract and first team football, from a West Ham type team.
Ultimately, after five years earning 200k a week, he might not be arsed by earning an extra few million. I don’t see a 31 year old accepting a one year extension though, think he will be looking for at least two and probably three years.
I think he has a great part to play now. Lindelof can go before him that's for sure.
He always did well in a back 3/5 for England but I always assumed it was Southgate’s super negative system. Good to see he’s doing well but still think we can do better
Ah, right, I got this mixed. Well... then the mistake has been made earlier and we have to live with it. I'd consider making him an offer but on a very reasonable wage and with an honest outlook on minutes played. I'd rather bring in a young cheaper punt no-name or a veteran on a year-long contract.
I couldn't give a flying f about the rest of the season, mate. I said this as early as last summer. One season means nothing, we have to get the bigger picture right. I can see your rationale and he earned back a bit of respect over the last months (even though, he never reached that calamity level for me anyway that he reached for other fans) but I'd rather get rid than continue something that isn't going to help in the future. I know, that is rather extreme but there were so many minutes wasted in the last years on players like Eriksen, McTominay or Lindelof and Maguire - while we are now suprisingly almost stumble upon a player like Amad, who was there and who knows might have been able to make a comparable impact even earlier. And no, I am aware that there aren't many Amads out there, but I don't care, we might as well bring up somebody in the Michael Keane category or whatever so can be sold when we finally find and buy a player we consider the future of this team. We should aspire to create a team where the subs are battling it out with the starters on who is getting to play in the biggest games. With us, for some time it feels more like we are managing a standstill hoping some deus ex moment will just throw the success back into our laps.
(sorry for little rant)
Yeah, I agree. I'd definitely wouldn't offer him anything that is better than for a player we know has no future here.
So the new narrative now is that he's just good enough to be a squad player whilst in reality, he's been comfortably our best CB ever since we signed him. I think that's still the case as Yoro should be expected to still be a bit raw, and de Ligt has shown he's not as good as Maguire, at least so far.
He doesn't have a "massive salary" either. 190k per week for a CB of his level is more than acceptable. United fans have this fetish where they want to be the best team in the world again but every player should be earning peanuts at the same time. Maguire is one of the best CCBs around, our former captain, a leader in the dressing room, and has proven his level for several years both at United and Leicester.
These are the highest paid defenders in the Premier League according to Capology.
I'd argue that Maguire is right where he should be, especially when looking at de Ligt's and Dias's wages, the two most comparable defender profiles to Maguire across the league.
He's not van Dijk and Saliba level, but those two are in their own tier (both in the league and in the world), and Maguire is one tier below with the likes of Dias, de Ligt, Romero, Stones, etc.
If we want him to stay on reduced wages, we'll need to offer a 2 year extension anyways. That will still cost us more than triggering his current 1 year option on existing terms, unless he's willing to take a huge paycut in exchange for a contract until 2027, but he rightly won't be willing to do that.
Also, considering the player's skillset and strengths, I don't think there are any immediate concerns about physical decline, because I don't think it has set in yet, and even if it does within the next 12-24 months, the drop off won't be that noticeable at first, like it was for Casemiro as one example. I think it's likely that Maguire can stay an elite level defender until 34-35.
He doesn't have a "massive salary" either. 190k per week for a CB of his level is more than acceptable. United fans have this fetish where they want to be the best team in the world again but every player should be earning peanuts at the same time. Maguire is one of the best CCBs around, our former captain, a leader in the dressing room, and has proven his level for several years both at United and Leicester.
These are the highest paid defenders in the Premier League according to Capology.
I'd argue that Maguire is right where he should be, especially when looking at de Ligt's and Dias's wages, the two most comparable defender profiles to Maguire across the league.
He's not van Dijk and Saliba level, but those two are in their own tier (both in the league and in the world), and Maguire is one tier below with the likes of Dias, de Ligt, Romero, Stones, etc.
If we want him to stay on reduced wages, we'll need to offer a 2 year extension anyways. That will still cost us more than triggering his current 1 year option on existing terms, unless he's willing to take a huge paycut in exchange for a contract until 2027, but he rightly won't be willing to do that.
Also, considering the player's skillset and strengths, I don't think there are any immediate concerns about physical decline, because I don't think it has set in yet, and even if it does within the next 12-24 months, the drop off won't be that noticeable at first, like it was for Casemiro as one example. I think it's likely that Maguire can stay an elite level defender until 34-35.
Sounds like a mid level BBC documentary set in 70s Belfast.
Has been playing good but we’re nowhere near the level want to be at. If we want to press from the top, we need to trust our defenders pushing up. I’d be happy with him as a squad player reduced wages but he shouldn’t be nowhere in the final 11.
We need someone who is mobile, strong and confident bringing the ball forward. De Ligt and Maguire are neither hence our build up is slow.
We need someone who is mobile, strong and confident bringing the ball forward. De Ligt and Maguire are neither hence our build up is slow.
Main narrative should be that being "our best CB" doesn't mean anything at all. If we had any success, your take might have a resemblance of meaning but like that, it doesn't mean much at all. At this point, we all got the memo, you are a fan of Maguire. Thats fine and well but it neither makes the player better or worse compared to other players in other teams. Which is what we should do all the time. Comparing Maguire to Lindelof is worthless. Based on the "was used wrong"-narrative (yes, we can use that word as well) you can make a case for every player in every freaking team. It is a cop out, nothing more.
"If we had any success" Ah yes, the good old argument where you hold one player responsible for a team's collective achievements.
He's not just our best CB. In fact, he's one of the best defenders in the league and should be our starting CCB for the next 2 years at the very least.
And sorry, cop out? You can't comprehend (or just don't want to?) how much team environments and tactical systems matter in relation to how well a player can perform, so you just dismiss the whole argument?
So I guess Cucurella for example just forgot how to play football for two whole seasons under Potter and Pochettino, and only started remembering now under Maresca? Because he was shit for Chelsea for two whole seasons and needed a well-drilled tactical system in order to be able to start showcasing why Chelsea and City were both willing to pay Brighton big money for him 2 years ago. His good form for Spain throughout these years also helps my argument.
But he is just one of many examples at Chelsea, or any club.
Even at United we've seen this. Maguire was really good under Ole. Since then, though, we've not been nearly as consistently and collectively good as we were in the 2020/21 season. Maguire is just one of the several players whose dropoff in performances since then indicates that the system has been subpar ever since then, but the players themselves didn't forget how to play football.
Even for United in these last 1.5 months, since ten Hag was sacked, you could already see what I'm talking about. Ugarte has been playing way better because he's been platformed correctly by Amorim. The same thing can be said to a certain extent about Hojlund, Rashford, Bruno, Zirkzee, Casemiro, and others. Even in those 4 interim games under Ruud, we saw an immediate upturn in performances, simply because he sent out more balanced XIs with an approach that suits them better and wasn't as dysfunctional as before.
It's weird to dismiss such an obvious thing as a "cop out", but I guess it's better to pile onto certain players when things aren't going well, instead of thinking about what could be causing the team's collective drop off.
We might as well just look at defensive records if thats what you want. Doesn't make sense to fight this logic, you might disagree with it being applied to Maguire specifically but a club who is on the downfall and scored a rather generous 8th place just a year ago isnt the same club from a few years ago when we were competing. Back then, it meant something to say whether a player would be the best or the 2nd best at United. This time around, doesn't mean anything.
Fair enough. I disagree wholeheartedly but who am I.
If I can't comprehend, then you apply faulty logic. As I said - explaining a players failures and negative performances with "system wasn't right" makes sense but it can be applied anywhere and everywhere. You can have the exact same argument about Lindelof. So what does it tell us - is it wrong to say that the system impacted our players negatively? No. But that "insight" doesn't have much weight when we are talking about what can be. Something that isn't a big minus isn't automatically a plus. I am sure, you understand what I mean. Maguire was shit in earlier systems, it might have been down to the system and the player isn't as shit as he looked. Makes sense. What doesn't make sense to extrapolate that into a (fictional) future where he apparently will be our best centreback.
I am sure it does
Yet you simply don't know to what extent the system was responsible for everything that happened. Could have been the pressure of a big club as well, right? Could new team mates and an everchanging team at Chelsea. Nobody is saying that the system doesn't effect a players performance. But you act as if this explanation is enough to "play him as starting CCB for the next to years at the very last". Thats bonkers, mildly phrased.
Each to their own, I will never confirm that we were good in 20/21. I agree with you Maguire did play well in his early days though. But what does that matter these days? I think you are battling the wrong guy here - I never was really a Maguire hater, I just didn't rate him very much but never latched on to him. So I can see why somebody would say he is not as bad as many fans make him out to be. But you are doing the same thing as them, just in a different direction. And the fact that you usually are alone on that matter, well other people might rethink how staunch they go on a certain direction. But, for the sake of it, do what you do and love. If you want to worship the player thats fine. If you want to celebrate him fairly, thats fine too.
It's funny isn't it? The brain is a pattern search machine. Give it something to look for and it will find something. Lets make an experiment - take a minute and think of what else might be contributing factors to players performing differently now then a couple of weeks ago. Lets do Ugarte first.
No need to go into that given that all points have been adressed above.
I really respect Maguire and would love to keep him for another year or two. Three at the back with two pacy defenders either side of him is just perfect. We look far better defending set pieces with him in defence and despite all the shit he’s had to take from the United fan base he just keeps his head down and works for the team!
Just keep in mind guys that we triggered a 1 year extension for AWB this Jan and sold him in August.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67879910
I've said it in his performance's thread as it really depends on FFP/replacements etc and of course Maguire's situation will be much different from AWB, as the latter got a 7 year contract offer from West Ham but it's possible we get a fee and/or move on amiably.
If West Ham offer 3+1 on £100k + achievable incentives/bonuses, he may decide to take that offer than run out his contract if we extend.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67879910
I've said it in his performance's thread as it really depends on FFP/replacements etc and of course Maguire's situation will be much different from AWB, as the latter got a 7 year contract offer from West Ham but it's possible we get a fee and/or move on amiably.
If West Ham offer 3+1 on £100k + achievable incentives/bonuses, he may decide to take that offer than run out his contract if we extend.
Wow!
This seems awfully talkative. Care to elaborate?Wow!
We have a fundamental difference of opinion, I see people scapegoating rashford and saying the club needs a cultural reset by selling him ie. The performances will be better if he is not at the club not just not on the pitch. You don't see the same posts and articles.
I know that many here love the guy and that he is not my cup of Tea and that's allright. I think that United need to change more old names to actually renovate with the new coach.
He reacted to his demisse in the best of ways, with the best of attitudes and the social media on him was brutal, no matter what he did wrong in the pitch.
Yet he reminds me of Otamendi on many ways, he is strong on every sense, as a player and in his mind, yet capable of really dumb plays.
When they feel secure, with a certain level of praise or comfortable with their status in the team, they tend to fvck it up.
I like them more when they are in difficult times, attacked and I feel that when they sort it out, they react in those periods being more tidy and specially more focus; yet I've seen it with both that once they think they are back, they tend to over do it and comitt really silly mistakes.
When I say silly, it means over the top silly. Not some casual over confident stuff when trying some really risky stuff, more like loosing the ball really cheaply, or some over the top foul (specially Otamendi, not as mcuh Harry).
I dunno if it's the best in long term to keep him if there is a good offer that can make United go for someone young, yet mature in the market.
Yet I also think his effort deserves some recognition and if United doesn't have enough defenders, to keep him in the squad with current attitude and level its fine, but if an opportunity rises or someone comes knocking for him at the door, at 32, maybe it's time to go on a "high".
He reacted to his demisse in the best of ways, with the best of attitudes and the social media on him was brutal, no matter what he did wrong in the pitch.
Yet he reminds me of Otamendi on many ways, he is strong on every sense, as a player and in his mind, yet capable of really dumb plays.
When they feel secure, with a certain level of praise or comfortable with their status in the team, they tend to fvck it up.
I like them more when they are in difficult times, attacked and I feel that when they sort it out, they react in those periods being more tidy and specially more focus; yet I've seen it with both that once they think they are back, they tend to over do it and comitt really silly mistakes.
When I say silly, it means over the top silly. Not some casual over confident stuff when trying some really risky stuff, more like loosing the ball really cheaply, or some over the top foul (specially Otamendi, not as mcuh Harry).
I dunno if it's the best in long term to keep him if there is a good offer that can make United go for someone young, yet mature in the market.
Yet I also think his effort deserves some recognition and if United doesn't have enough defenders, to keep him in the squad with current attitude and level its fine, but if an opportunity rises or someone comes knocking for him at the door, at 32, maybe it's time to go on a "high".
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A very good squad player. Keep him in the squad if he accepts being rotated.
All the credit in the world to Maguire.. He kept his head down & showed up when called upon. Lots of teams would benefit from having in their squad.
There are a couple players who could learn a thing or two from Maguire about how to handle criticism professionally
So I have the wrong opinion, got it. Makes sense. Just out of interest, I assume you have the correct one? Lets make it official then: share with us the correct take on Harry Maguire! Please
That's not his choice
We can choose not to exercise that option, and we definitely should not be extending it.
Yeah of course if we decide to let him go then there’s nothing he can do. He can go and sign with whoever he wants with a fat signing bonus, decent wages and a longer contract.
I’m not sure what your point is.
No he couldnt. Remember the Palace away game last season? No thanks.
Given his form/mentality Id have no problem extending Maguire for the extra year to buy us more time.
We do have leverage because the alternative is he goes and plays for West Ham or Everton who probably pay him a lot less than 200k a week anyway.
He’s 32 in March so if he agreed to a 2 year extension on closer to 100k a week it’s a better reflection of his market value at this stage in his career.
Players have to have a desire to stay, if he wants to play hardball and will only stay on his current salary then let him go. His form may have picked up but it could just as easily nosedive again as well, can’t be held to ransom by players.