I really don't think the first two are true.
Maguire's Redemption | One-year option triggered
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I really don't think the first two are true.
Do you think de Ligt would've looked like a world class defender in Rangnick's United or 23/24 United? He would've been ridiculed just like Maguire was
That's the one. Criminal
The proof is in the pudding,.we have won more matches with him as the main defender Vs Maguire. I would have him over Maguire any day for the week.
Extremely good? Are we just making things up now?
Maguire's performances in 21/22 (for both Ole and Rangick) and to a lesser extent 22/23 for ETH had nothing to do with anybody but himself. There's a difference between not looking like a world class defender (and no, De Ligt wouldn't have) and the unbelievably horrific performances that Maguire was putting in. It's not an exaggeration to say that I can't think of a single central defender who has had a worse full season than Maguire's 21/22.
Fair play to him he turned it around and was arguably our best central defender in 23/24 (although considering Evans is the other one with a shout on that title it shows how low the standards were), but overall the best way to describe his time here has been inconsistently average. A short period of extremely good. A significantly longer period of extremely bad. And the rest of the time he's been 'decent-ish'. Which is about how I'd describe De Ligt so far as well.
It's criminal how Martinez defend Isak there. He totally lost Isak from halfway point. And they way he sprint back was like tortoise. He is a serious liability and should be dropped.
Maguire is the least of our worry now considering we have Lindelof, Martinez and Shaw to worry about.
Not at all. Maybe 'very' good instead of 'extremely' if you want to be pedantic. Maguire was up there with Dias as the best defender in the league in the second half of that season. Admittedly it was the season that VDV and one or two of the other top defenders in the league missed a lot of games through injury so the competition was a bit weak, but that doesn't change the fact that he was very good. Other than Smalling in 15/16 it was easily the best period any of our defenders have had since Rio and Vida declined.
We all hoped that it was a sign of things to come, and if he'd continued in that form the huge transfer fee would have started to look more suitable. Unfortunately he followed it up with one of the worst seasons in PL history.
There was another big reason for his poor performances in 21/22 season. There was a significant change in tactics that backfired horrendously for OGS. If you recall that when Ole came in, for 2 seasons he turned us into a very good counter attacking side. Where we sat deep, and hit teams on the break. We had good pace up top and players who could finish chances. Sitting deep also helped Maguire, because he is the type of defender who likes to be up against the opposition attackers, outjumping them and winning balls off them. This is where his strength is.
Then in 21/22 season, OGS decided to play much higher up the pitch, with our attackers pressing and our defenders on the half-way line. Only problem was, our attackers were rubbish at pressing and overturning the ball from the opposition playing out from the back. So they were able to quite easily play it around Ronaldo, Rashford, Greenwood. Then Bruno/Pogba/Fred hardly laid a glove on anybody in midfield. So all you had to do was play a ball over the top of Maguire into the space behind and you were clean through on De Gea. Maguire doesn't have the pace to catch a quick winger or striker running a full pelt. And we got exposed over and over again. But we made the mistake of blaming Maguire for being too slow, instead of looking at the forwards for not pressing or making it hard for the opposition.
You can look at all of the best Italian defenders of the past. Chiellini and Bonucci were not fast. But they knew how to read the game, where to stand, where to block, when to sit back and when to move forward. I really do think that Maguire has all of these attributes, but don't stick him on the halfway line, when your team is piss easy to play through, and your forwards can't press and your midfield is AWOL.
Isn't even looking where he is then absolutely inexplicably starts wandering forward too.
Not that you'd fancy him in a 5050 even with a couple of yards headstart in fairness.
The idea that we sat deep under Ole is actually a bit of a myth, based on the theory that since counter-attack was our most dangerous form of attack we must have been sitting deep. Those two things aren't necessarily linked, as seen by the fact that Liverpool are one of the best counter-attack teams of the last decade while also having one of the highest defensive lines (also ourselves for much of Fergie's reign).
19/20 and 20/21 were actually the highest defensive lines we've had in the last six years (which is as far back as the stats I can find go). We had the 6th and 4th highest defensive lines in the league in those two seasons. Then we dropped to the 14th highest in 21/22, 14th again in 22/23, 15th in 23/24 and 13th so far this season (I suspect we were lower but have improved since Amorim came in). It would be linked to us actually having more possession and control of games in those two seasons than we ever did under ETH. ETH was actually more reliant on counter-attacks then Ole was, but we just weren't as good at it so he didn't seem to get tarred with the same brush.
You are probably correct when it comes to the attackers pressing higher though. But the space was being created in front of the defenders (since the attackers were pushing higher) rather than behind them. That was most obvious last season where it happened to a truly ridiculous extent. Then again, last season was also when Maguire returned to decent form so I'm not sure if there is much of a link.
That is a good point. I also think, the issue Maguire and high lines is overexaggerated simply because it fits the bill so easily, tall and rather immobile defender, probably not good at a higher line. Iirc he was actually lauded as doing quite well with this even for Leicester, because he wasn't the one staying in behind and containing but rather the one to agressively stepout and then make use of his physicality.
I think, what helped our defense under Ole was that we kept it rather simple, our attacks were fast and vertical, there wasn't too much going on in terms of players moving too much in possession. Also the team didn't move up the pitch in a methodical way but either it was very fast in behind with most of the team keeping their out of the ball shape or it was so slow, that a) it didn't challenge our defenders much and b) it didn't challenge opponents defenders much...
It might not have been a deep line but Oles setup was a rather functional unit that set us up rather comfortably (good job on that part) and many players benefitted from it. Those were seasons where our defense looked decentish overall, with AWB, Shaw, Lindelof and Maguire being fine.
But Maguire is the one where we are now in a situation to have to make a decision. And the decision is the continue our relationship with him or not. If you look for it, you'll always be able to find some reason to do and a few of the reasons listed in this thread are plausible. I'd still not do it. Thank him for his time here and bye bye. We are NOT in a position where we should hand out contracts for players who aren't part of the first team. We have limited resources and a team, that needs very very serious work. Anything more than a 50 or 60k contract for a player that isn't part of the first team is madness. There would be some sense in it if we'd play for silverware on multiple fronts, but we aren't. It will be the same as with Mctominay and AWB, when the departure is imminent, people cry about losing them but once they are gone, noone would even think "aw, how nice would it be to have... right now"
His issue is and always will be that he can't move anywjere near as quickly as nearly every player he's up against. That's probably why when he had that run of bad form it was sp horrific. He has no chance of recovery once he's made a mistake, even of its not one that would ordinarily be disastrous.
Which is why him, Martinez and De Ligt is not a great combination. There's no recovery pace in any of them. Martinez also hasn't been anywhere near the same player since his injury.
That clip above. Maguire sees Isak and yes it's Martinez who makes the error, but a quicker defender steps across and covers for him. None of our three are going to be doing that. Well De Ligt maybe but he'd have to see it really early.
We looked a lot better when Mazrouri was there. Yoro is fast but way too young to be bailing his team mates out. He's the one most likely to make the errors.
Which is why him, Martinez and De Ligt is not a great combination. There's no recovery pace in any of them. Martinez also hasn't been anywhere near the same player since his injury.
That clip above. Maguire sees Isak and yes it's Martinez who makes the error, but a quicker defender steps across and covers for him. None of our three are going to be doing that. Well De Ligt maybe but he'd have to see it really early.
We looked a lot better when Mazrouri was there. Yoro is fast but way too young to be bailing his team mates out. He's the one most likely to make the errors.
Hopefully he goes.
Offer him 100k plus performance max 120k. 2 years no plus 1. By then he would be 34 and surely we will be in a better position to get a younger replacement
One-year option triggered
New
Christ, so instead of renegotiating, we've triggered the pre-existing option which would put his wages near 200k per week. No club was lining up to offer this guy anywhere near as much and we still didn't think it was a good idea to renegotiate? Great work INEOS. Time to fire a few more low paid members of staff though.
Weren’t we negotiating a reduction like 10 minutes ago?
Seems we folded pretty quick
1 year extension triggered
Not sure how I feel about that
Not sure how I feel about that
What a joke. It's just like Lindelof. Trigger the clause. Nobody wants to buy him in the summer. Then we are stuck with him next season.
I guess they just dont want to lose him for free in the summer
This doesn't make any sense. We're triggering the contract extension because we want to keep him for next season. At no point was selling him an option, because he was out of contract at the end of this season.
They probably want him to stay next season, we are losing Evans and Lindelof in the summer I'd be surprised of Lisandro stays to that leaves us what DeLigt, Yoro and Maguire as the senior defenders
You not think someone would scoop him up on a free and pay him what he is currently getting? I do.
Plus, we are up against it from a PSR perspective. Replacing him would require millions upfront plus a transfer fee.
The extension is the smart move. You get the player for another year, then replace him at the end of the 25/26 season. Because right now, the money is required in other areas of the squad.
What makes you think Marzines goes?
I think it was always the most logical choice, unfortunately...
We lose Evans and Lindelof as their contracts expire in June. If we were to not renew Maguire, we'd need to go into the market for a CB which due to PSR/FFP we might not be able to do. Don't forget, it's extremely likely we will be in the market for two wing backs, a forward, and probably a midfield player as a minimum. If we needed to add a CB as well then the funds just might not be there to replace an experienced player like Harry.
Not saying I am necessarily in favour of the deal, largely because I think he is still probably 4th choice defender for us at best and on nearly £190k~ it doesn't make sense for him to be probably in the top 5 or 10 highest paid defenders in the Premier League. But at the same time he is also not within the first 7-8 problems to fix in our squad (of which we won't resolve all of until the following season, when his contract ending means he is easier to remove in a year's time when we might be able to buy a new defender).
We lose Evans and Lindelof as their contracts expire in June. If we were to not renew Maguire, we'd need to go into the market for a CB which due to PSR/FFP we might not be able to do. Don't forget, it's extremely likely we will be in the market for two wing backs, a forward, and probably a midfield player as a minimum. If we needed to add a CB as well then the funds just might not be there to replace an experienced player like Harry.
Not saying I am necessarily in favour of the deal, largely because I think he is still probably 4th choice defender for us at best and on nearly £190k~ it doesn't make sense for him to be probably in the top 5 or 10 highest paid defenders in the Premier League. But at the same time he is also not within the first 7-8 problems to fix in our squad (of which we won't resolve all of until the following season, when his contract ending means he is easier to remove in a year's time when we might be able to buy a new defender).
People getting worried unnecessarily.
The reality is, we have other priority positions like LWB, CF, #10 and midfielders to take care of. I'm not sure we can go big on new CBs in 2025.
In that scenario, it's fine to extend his current deal for some depth. Ideally, we should have renegotiated his wages, but if he doesn't agree to that and we don't plan to buy CBs, he is in a position of strength.
We will get rid of him next year. And 200K a week, while big wages, is not as big a dent as the wages Rashford, Bruno and Casemiro are on.
The reality is, we have other priority positions like LWB, CF, #10 and midfielders to take care of. I'm not sure we can go big on new CBs in 2025.
In that scenario, it's fine to extend his current deal for some depth. Ideally, we should have renegotiated his wages, but if he doesn't agree to that and we don't plan to buy CBs, he is in a position of strength.
We will get rid of him next year. And 200K a week, while big wages, is not as big a dent as the wages Rashford, Bruno and Casemiro are on.
Keeping him makes sense to me given the amount of areas we have to strengthen and the other CBs already on their way out.
Would be interested to know the rationale behind triggering the one year extension rather than agreeing another contract on lower wages though. It's an expensive one year.
Would be interested to know the rationale behind triggering the one year extension rather than agreeing another contract on lower wages though. It's an expensive one year.
He isn't that great defending in space as shown vs Newcastle and for 3 at the back the left/right sided defenders need to be able to do that, I don't think he is physical enough either we need some size in the team
I'd have happily let him walk for free.
Triggered.
People don't seem to understand that when the club is right up against the PSR limit and in desperate need to priorities other areas of the field, it is much better to extend a contract of a player (even one we may not want long term) than to have to replace him at the end of the season.
Especially as Lindelof and Evans will likely leave at the end of the season. Do United really want to be trying to replace 3 center backs when the squad needs players we don't currently have for Amorims system?
We don't want to sell him.
Martinez, Lindelof and Evans should be gone in the summer.
Probably makes sense given the financial situation - push back signing his replacement for another year.
Lindelof and Evans already walking this summer as it is.
Not ecstatic, but the decision doesn’t offend me.
Lindelof and Evans already walking this summer as it is.
Not ecstatic, but the decision doesn’t offend me.
Given Martinez’s performances, options maybe leaving (and Yoro young/learning), I don’t think we can let go yet. Played well v Haaland so can hopefully do a job.
Would have liked a drop in wages though.
Happy. We need more of his personality type at the club,not less.
Like Amorim said, we are desperate for leaders
If they are extending his stay at the club it really needed to be on lowered terms. Especially with all the other shite going on at the club.
Unless Jim fancies injecting a few hundred million of his own money into the club, we need to be stuck with Maguire next season. We simply can't afford to replace him and strengthen all other positions