When did Dalot play at RCB? Shaw is not available anymore and needs to be replaced both at LCB & at LWB within the next two transfer windows.
Maguire's Redemption | One-year option triggered
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When did Dalot play at RCB? Shaw is not available anymore and needs to be replaced both at LCB & at LWB within the next two transfer windows.
What is he supposed to say? Amorim now is the face of Manchester United and there is no reason to go out and tell them how he cried himself to sleep finding out how much we paid for players like that over the years.
Also Amorim shouldn't be the one to make such decisions, right? Obviously, every manager will want to have as many options as he can and it is on the club to bring all stakeholders interest into a healthy balance.
Because you invest money into players for them to benefit you. If you walk around buying players and not play them, you are losing money. We moved away from Maguire as the central figure even under Ole when he brought in Varane. ETHs first move was to bring in a CB. And he brought in even another one a little later. Going back and forth is wasting time and energy. Maguire is 32, his chapter is finished. The chapters for the other guys is still in the run, we should do what we can for them to come good. And thats most likely not by benching them for Maguire.
I highly doubt that too many on here really understand the rules and know our exact numbers well enough to know whether splashing 10 million for Maguire is less of a problem than spending it on something else. Sorry, this feels just like a convenient way to keep everything as it is.
Again, I can see that rationale but I am questioning if the bill is fine when opportunity costs get included as well. 10 millions on Maguire is money on the fire. For the sheer hope he can contribute something. 10 million for an unknown entity, heck, maybe 15 million for a younger player may give us the opportunity to sell for 7 or 8 million in a season or two if the new guy isn't looking like somebody who can contribute.
Shaw is basically gone. He’ll unfortunately never ever be a Man Utd regular again. Not sure he’ll ever be a regular for anyone, a Shame but the double leg break has caught up with him.
No - football is. This isn't football manager.
Here's an example, Forest bought Milenkovic this summer, by all accounts one of the best CB's in the prem this season.
He cost them £12m, an absolute bargain - that's the first difficult thing, actually spotting the bargain. Then he's on 100K a week, so that's around £5m a year (and they had to give him a 5 year deal). So already, just that "bargain" is double the cost of Maguire for one season. And again, these PSR restrictions are incredibly tight, to the point where we probably can't even afford that extra £7m... especially on what would be a punt. What if the punt doesn't work out? Then you're stuck with a not great player for 5 years...
In general I absolutely think we should be looking at the lower end of the market instead of splashing big... but again, a transfer like Milenkovic is pretty rare, to say that we can just pull something like that off easily is a stretch... it's a stretch for any club. For every Milenkovic there are countless other signings that are terrible.
Why are people listing Luke Shaw as a serious option? Is he going to start every week alongside Mason Mount?!
Because they are talking about BACKUP options.
You still need to - you know - actually be fit to be a backup option. Even an all caps backup option!
Actually PSR wise that would have been cheaper as his contract would have been amortized over 5 years, meaning a hit of just over £7m v £10m that Maguire makes.
Ideally our academy should be able to produce backup quality defenders that we could plug in after we’ve let players like Maguire go.
True - a slight saving - point stands though - actually pulling of a transfer like that is incredibly difficult, and even that will only save you £3m over Maguire for a year.
Yeah that is fair, I would like to see De Ligt as the central CB. Agree re what Amorim needs to do - United fans generally don't (and didn't) like it but so many times under all managers since then everything seems to be rushed at the opponent's box, there is an idea that you have to get the ball forwards as quick as possible, I remember Ole giving an interview where he thought you just needed to feed your strikers as they were the 'best' players but we won't win just being so direct without an ability to manage games. We need to go a bit Chelsea/Tuchel like for the rest of the season, slow build up, lots of moving the opponent around even if it means you draw too many games and goals aren't flowing (not that they are now). Be solid, keep the ball and then we can build off that.
You are clutching at straws.
Dalot hasn't played RCB. There's nothing to suggest he would be better than Mazraoui there, who's just a decent makeshift option there himself regardless, and not a long-term starter.
Not sure what De Ligt has done to deserve starting CCB spot, whereas Maguire will just be the "7th squad option". It's really not that difficult to understand why we are much better with Maguire at CCB instead, as there's plenty of evidence of that just in these first ~10 games under Amorim.
Yoro hasn't played CCB and it would be a luxury to play him there considering our current options, as he is the sole natural wide defender in the whole squad. Maguire/De Ligt cannot play there. Martínez and Lindelöf cannot either. It's all about the physical deficiencies for those 4. Mazraoui can be a decent rotational option there, like I said, but he's not an out-and-out CB either.
Shaw could be a great LCB but he's seemingly never fit. Martínez is only good in possession. When he has to defend, be it set pieces or large spaces on opposition transitions, I'm putting it lightly when I say he's a liability.
The more realistic CB hierarchy right now would probably look more like this:
LCB: Shaw first choice, but he's never fit, so Martínez first choice
CCB: Maguire first choice, De Ligt second choice
RCB: Yoro first choice, Mazraoui second choice
Evans has done surprisingly well as a wide defender against Villa, and I reckon Lindelöf could replicate that sort of performance too, but they're ideally back-ups at both WCB and CCB. If Kukonki makes his debut this season, he'll be a wide CB as well. He's got the perfect build for it.
De Ligt is better and I'd say mazraoui this season too
I mean, Milenkovic isn't the best example here. He was really highly rated a few years back and was linked with big money moves, us included. It just seems we're totally incapable of pulling off these sorts of deals.
His CB partner, Murillo, is a much better example of what we should be looking for.
A backup option is a player who is a step down but can come into the team if needed.
Shaw is basically the opposite - a first choice non-option.
The point is though, not everyone is buying a centre-back for £12m and they're suddenly looking like one of the best CB's in the league. Otherwise literally every single club would be doing it.
You act as if Milenkovic was an unknown entity when he came in. Maybe I have to make my point more precise. What you are describing is the process of improving the team by adding quality players. Makes sense. What I am talking is adding legs for emergency. Bring in Milenkovics father-in-laws son who nobody knows but plays professional football and doesn't have too many obvious red flags.
To improve the 1st team, we have to bring in a high caliber player. Someone like one of the Sporting boys or Branthwaite or whoever. There is probably no chance to not splash the cash while at the same time reduce risk of total flop. But a backup doesn't have to be regarded so highly given that we aren't expected to play for anything anyways.
I agree. Terrible like paying 80 million for Maguire.
Don't get me wrong, I can see you trying to be reasonable, be assured, I am trying as well, but I personally think, we aren't going anywhere if all we do is repeating the same patterns over and over. Not acknowledging how stuff has changed over time and that we simply have to be a disruptive at some point. And I am not even talking about crazy clear out. But when there is a chapter coming to a natural end, just let it run out. Don't cling on it for sentiment.
A backup needs to be available. Having one who is a little injury prone is one thing, but relying on one who is injured as often as Shaw is impossible. At this point Shaw is basically a bonus when fit, not someone we take into account when building the squad.
It's like we haven't seen time after time the last few years that we have had to go far down our defensive pecking order because the players that are supposed to be our backup have been injured at the same time as our main guys. Hell, it's literally happened almost every season since 06/07 as we've been carrying too many injury prone defenders.
Sadly so.Yeah but Milenkovic had shown previously that he's a very good player. That's why he had been linked with big money moves. Have no idea what the back story is as to why he was so cheap/bigger clubs weren't interested.
As much as I wanted him out at one point I think this is now the correct move. If we're already tight on PSR then we have to limit our signings and there's enough actual gaps to cover without creating more.
If Shaw is never fit (and he's not) then he's not a choice whatsoever. His body dictates when he plays and he'll probably break when you need him the most for obvious reasons.
Of course, but he's also just spent the last 7 years at a fairly middling Fiorentina. It's not crazy to envisage a world where he comes to the PL and isn't great... probably why a club like Forest took the punt.
We've just bought two more centre backs in Yoro and De Ligt.
We're not going to be able to buy someone as good as Maguire for £10 million or less. These other players that could do a job are not going to cost that or less.
Yes, he's on a high wage, but given centre back is a low priority at this point (in terms of spending a lot on a new one), extending him on that wage is still going to be much cheaper than trying to get an alternative that's equal to or better than him in terms of quality.
I get that he's not everyone's cup of tea, but the extension makes sense given the circumstances.
Indeed. Having him as a Utd player gives me pain every single day but beggars can't be choosers and it's one less player we have to buy next summer. We can then replace him properly in 2026.
Only "slightly" when you ignore that a "new" player could go on to contribute even longer making it double-worthwile to invest the time on him. And thats not even just for United. He also could have some resale value. With Maguire, it is 10 millions and after a year the money is completely gone with you having nothing to show for it other than performances that, if probability is the thing we go for, didn't result in anything too decisive.
Lets not get hung up on Shaw. I am not going to defend this guy. My point was, that we have players who can fill in at CB. And after next summers transfer window, there might be even more. Thats the point when I say it doesn't make sense to label this Maguire decision a no-brainer. It certainly is not and whoever thinks like that is too stuck in my view.
And for what its worth - I can honestly say that I am fine with a injury crisis if that means we close certain chapters.
I'd be going for their reserve, Morato, before he becomes better known next season. Watch him flourish next season when Murillo is sold in the summer.
Interesting that we triggered the option instead of giving him an extension, which was the talk earlier. I think there is a possibility he could still be gone in the summer. This seems like is to stop him for signing for someone abroad on a Bosman in Jan or in the PL in the summer.
Yeah, like a turd that won't flush he'll probably have to be coat hangered out the door.
It'll have been 8 fecking years and he's still only 30. I'll never understand it.
Makes sense. We've bigger problems to address and we're already going to lose a couple of center backs in the next 6 months anyway. May as well save ourselves the hassle of trying to replace three in one go.
So, why are they keeping Maguire then? Because you are suggesting the manager is lying in the presser now.
If the manager sees no use for him, then he wouldn't be extended. If he and the club feel there is value, or at least it is better keep for the next 18 months, then they will do so. And they have.
It is a collective decision. Im sure there are conversations between manager and Berrada, Wilcox etx are being had to decide the pro's and cons of extending any player.
Im not sure why you are finding it difficult it is to accept the fact that Maguire has been extended because replacing him is near impossible with so many other priorities and us being up against PSR. It's not complicated.
You could make that argument had ETH still been incharge and he was favouring Maguire over the many center backs that he / the club brought in over the last year and a half, but the fact is, Amorim is incharge now. If he feel that Maguire is a better option than others, then he plays.
Is Maguire's chapter finished? Clearly not if he is being extended and he has started the last three games.
I am not saying Maguire is the future, but there clearly is still a role for him, otherwise he would have been allowed to leave without an extension.
I would suggest United know exactly the PSR constraints that they are working under. So regardless of what we think, they decided it was best to keep him.
Deserved. He's an important player now especially with three at the back, and tirggering an extra year gives him some sort of transfer value in the summer if we do plan on getting rid. His stock is higher now than it was 2 years ago at least, despite the increasing age.
Seems to have annoyed a few.
Better position? That’s always been a big issue for him, being easily pulled out of position.
You act as if Milenkovic was an unknown entity when he came in. Maybe I have to make my point more precise. What you are describing is the process of improving the team by adding quality players. Makes sense. What I am talking is adding legs for emergency. Bring in Milenkovics father-in-laws son who nobody knows but plays professional football and doesn't have too many obvious red flags.
To improve the 1st team, we have to bring in a high caliber player. Someone like one of the Sporting boys or Branthwaite or whoever. There is probably no chance to not splash the cash while at the same time reduce risk of total flop. But a backup doesn't have to be regarded so highly given that we aren't expected to play for anything anyways.
I agree. Terrible like paying 80 million for Maguire.
Don't get me wrong, I can see you trying to be reasonable, be assured, I am trying as well, but I personally think, we aren't going anywhere if all we do is repeating the same patterns over and over. Not acknowledging how stuff has changed over time and that we simply have to be a disruptive at some point. And I am not even talking about crazy clear out. But when there is a chapter coming to a natural end, just let it run out. Don't cling on it for sentiment.
Milenkovic might be the worst player to bring up in this discussion across the entire Premier League, because he's literally just Maguire from Wish.
He has a similar physical profile, some similar strengths, and some similar weaknesses, but Maguire provides things that the Serbian cannot.
Forest have also been playing comfortably the lowest defensive line across the league. Every single defender will look better and less vulnerable in such a setup...but most fans would rightly say such an approach is not the way forward and not what we should be building towards.
https://markstats.club/epl-teams-24-25/
-Milenkovic plays in a very deep defensive line
-He's surrounded by channel defenders to cover for his deficiencies (lack of pace, mobility, so bad 1v1 defender as a result) (Only Yoro can provide this for Maguire to a good level from our current squad, or Shaw if you still count him as a squad member)
-He's good at defending his own box and at set pieces.
But he doesn't have the build-up capabilities that Maguire does.
It seems like good box defenders playing in deep lines often get overestimated in the eyes of fans. See Varane's time at United as another good example. All the stuff he couldn't do was overlooked and rarely even discussed, because of a few good blocks and clearances from deep. However, they massively derailed our attempts at playing a proactive and dominant football style.
Also, the regular Maguire slander always mentions how he's "too slow" and "turns like a tanker"? So why are the same deficiencies overlooked for someone like Milenkovic? I'm curious. Because it has to be true for both of them, if you think Maguire's slow and cannot turn fast, and that it's something that cannot be "carried" and hidden by the his teammates around him (it can be, because his strengths easily compensate for his pace).
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He's a Serb. I'll be surprised if he can still count his career red cards with just one hand.
Are we also gonna do the contract extension?
I have zero confidence in us identifying the right player indeed. Even when we go for big money moves, which by definition should have a higher chance of yielding a player of at least some use, we more often than need end up with players that are barely serviceable. Us diving into the bargain bin is a certain disaster. We have to spend £50m+ on a player to basically have a slight chance of getting someone remotely decent (Mazraoui being the only exception).
Wingbacks yes but we need reinforcements in midfield urgently. Casemiro and Eriksson are done at the top level. We only have Ugarte and Mainoo. Midfield is massive problem.
We need two midfielders, two wing backs, a striker and a #10. All of them appear quite urgent.
So are wingbacks. We don't have any. Just a few players who are being shoehorned in