Madrid's deliberate red cards

Care_de_Bobo said:
He did, but they were also given a numerical advantage and a penalty which you'd at least expect a professional footballer to be able to get on target.

It comes down to personal preference I guess, I'd do what Suarez did in the same situation 100 times out of 100 because it was the only option he had, whereas I'd never do what Alonso or Ramos did because of my genuine love for the game.

How many of you then can honestly say you wouldn't have handled that ball to give your country a chance to get to the semi finals of the worlds biggest sporting tournament?
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I'm sorry Care, but that's ludicrous and makes very little sense.

Yes, I might do what Suarez did, but that doesn't excuse the action, what he did was still about as bad as you can get without debating tackling, he purposely denied a goal, in order to decrease Ghana's chances of going through to the next round. Whether the penalty should have been scored has nothing to do with it, the point is he stopped a goal that would have let them advance.

Obviously the grand stage of it makes it all the worse. Compared to two players, who are playing in a match which has already seen them win, by a big margin, and they get themselves sent off which has absolutely no bearing on that match.

Where is the comparison?
 
The other obvious difference is that what Suarez did had a direct impact on the outcome of a game, and that the Madrid players' actions have had zero consequences to anyone but themselves.
 
I don't get how "because we've done it before" somehow makes it all fine and dandy?

Ryan Giggs once scored a goal against West Brom by taking a freekick quickly and booting it in while their keeper was clearly injured and immobile. Does that mean it'd be ok if Didier Drogba did the same thing next week?

It's an abuse of the rules to gain an unfair advantage through lack of integrity, and should be punishable on that basis, if only for the sheer blatant retardedness of it. It'd be funny if Uefa ruled the bans to come into effect after the last group game.

and I still don't get why it was clever. It required very little intelligence to work out or do. Most people simply wouldn't do it because they've got a bit of pride and don't actually want to be sent off.
 
noodlehair said:
I don't get how "because we've done it before" somehow makes it all fine and dandy?

Ryan Giggs once scored a goal against West Brom by taking a freekick quickly and booting it in while their keeper was clearly injured and immobile. Does that mean it'd be ok if Didier Drogba did the same thing next week?

It's an abuse of the rules to gain an unfair advantage through lack of integrity, and should be punishable on that basis, if only for the sheer blatant retardedness of it. It'd be funny if Uefa ruled the bans to come into effect after the last group game.

and I still don't get why it was clever. It required very little intelligence to work out or do. Most people simply wouldn't do it because they've got they've got a bit of pride and don't actually want to be sent off.
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Agreed
 
R_Nick said:
The other obvious difference is that what Suarez did had a direct impact on the outcome of a game, and that the Madrid players' actions have had zero consequences to anyone but themselves.
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Yes, and that has more bearing on the action over whether it was planned or not.
 
When there is the possibility of you losing your best players over yellow cards and this can easily effect your chances of progressing at the cost of millions then you can see that it will happen even if it isn't the best sportsmanship in the world. Change the fecking rule would be my advice.
 
noodlehair said:
I don't get how "because we've done it before" somehow makes it all fine and dandy?

Ryan Giggs once scored a goal against West Brom by taking a freekick quickly and booting it in while their keeper was clearly injured and immobile. Does that mean it'd be ok if Didier Drogba did the same thing next week?

It's an abuse of the rules to gain an unfair advantage through lack of integrity, and should be punishable on that basis, if only for the sheer blatant retardedness of it. It'd be funny if Uefa ruled the bans to come into effect after the last group game.

and I still don't get why it was clever. It required very little intelligence to work out or do. Most people simply wouldn't do it because they've got a bit of pride and don't actually want to be sent off.
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The fact is the rules exist as they are, and taking advantage of those rules for being retarded is, in my opinion, fine. You can't just decide now you're going to change the rules retrospectively because you don't like that someone has taken advantage of it and it's got peoples knickers in a twist.

As for it being clever, nobody is claiming it took astrophysicist levels of IQ points, but it is something that they have thought of to benefit themselves within the current regulations.. Unless you're aching for a debate on the semantics of the word clever I don't see why you keep bringing that up.
 
What I don't get is why they didn't make the second yellows more blatant. Pull on the shirt whilst an opponent is running past you and you have no choice but to book the player.
 
R_Nick said:
The fact is the rules exist as they are, and taking advantage of those rules for being retarded is, in my opinion, fine. You can't just decide now you're going to change the rules retrospectively because you don't like that someone has taken advantage of it and it's got peoples knickers in a twist.

As for it being clever, nobody is claiming it took astrophysicist levels of IQ points, but it is something that they have thought of to benefit themselves within the current regulations.. Unless you're aching for a debate on the semantics of the word clever I don't see why you keep bringing that up.
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Of course you can change the rules retrospectively. This is UEFA. They changed the rules to let a team into the competition who hadn't even qualified a few years back. This is a relatively minor issue to address in comparison. They wont do anything against Real now because it wouldn't be worth the fuss, but at the very least they should change the rules so no one else can pull the same stunt in the future. It's hardly anything to applaud either. It's against the spirit of the game and disrespectful to the opponent as well as the officials/rules. Lets all congratulate Real Madrid for acting like cocks? why?

Saying it's "clever" or "smart" is implying that your average team or player wouldn't be smart enough to have thought of it. Which considering the actual thought process required is an insult to even the thickest of footballers, as well as the human race as a whole.
 
vuc said:
What I don't get is why they didn't make the second yellows more blatant. Pull on the shirt whilst an opponent is running past you and you have no choice but to book the player.
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Because by wasting time in order to get booked, their antics served the dual purpose of getting their cards wiped off and gratuitously wasting a load of time.

As we all know from watching Porto, time-wasting is a tactic close to Jose's heart.
 
I hate Real Madrid, but I'd have wanted us to do the same kind of thing. As long as the offences are unlikely to injure a player, I really don't have that much of an issue with it.
 
noodlehair said:
Of course you can change the rules retrospectively. This is UEFA. They changed the rules to let a team into the competition who hadn't even qualified a few years back. This is a relatively minor issue to address in comparison. They wont do anything against Real now because it wouldn't be worth the fuss, but at the very least they should change the rules so no one else can pull the same stunt in the future. It's hardly anything to applaud either. It's against the spirit of the game and disrespectful to the opponent as well as the officials/rules. Lets all congratulate Real Madrid for acting like cocks? why?
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OK, maybe they 'could' change the rules retrospectively, as they have the power, but I'm saying 'they can't do that' as in they shouldn't, it wouldn't be right. You can't go retrospectively changing rules willy nilly just because someone has exploited a loophole. As much as people may not like what happened the simple fact is that it is within the current rules of the game. If the powers that be decide to change that rule from next season then fine, all power to them, but it would be far more of a farce to turn around now and say they've just decided to change the rules and therefore the two players will miss a group game, than the incident last night will ever be.

That last sentence is ridiculously long but I couldn't really avoid it.

Saying it's "clever" or "smart" is implying that your average team or player wouldn't be smart enough to have thought of it. Which considering the actual thought process required is an insult to even the thickest of footballers, as well as the human race as a whole.
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Like I've said I really can't be bothered to get into a semantic debate, not least because I simply don't care, suffice to say I don't agree that referring to it as clever carries those implications at all.


And with that, it's lunch time so I'm going to the pub.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Because by wasting time in order to get booked, their antics served the dual purpose of getting their cards wiped off and gratuitously wasting a load of time.

As we all know from watching Porto, time-wasting is a tactic close to Jose's heart.
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I don't think the goal was to time waste. The only goal was to get sent-off, which obviously worked. My point is, the way they got sent-off is very blatant, I would have just gone for a cynical (but not dangerous) shirt-pull or even give the ref some abuse :lol:

They were 4-0 up and I don't think they needed to time waste.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Because by wasting time in order to get booked, their antics served the dual purpose of getting their cards wiped off and gratuitously wasting a load of time.

As we all know from watching Porto, time-wasting is a tactic close to Jose's heart.
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Why on earth would they timewaste 4 goals up?! I dont think Ajax were likely to get anything out of the game, so there would be no need to time waste.

Purely done for the sole purpose of getting the cards wiped, and i think it was a great idea.
 
So no one views this as fair play by Madrid because they were so much better and 4-0 up:confused:
 
UEFA are looking at it. 'In their disciplinary code, article 10 allows for suspensions of more than one match in cases of unsporting conduct'. They'll probably bottle it though after a call from the RM hierarchy..
 
Would you give a shit if it wasn't a Mourinho managed Real Madrid that were involved?
 
Am I just imagining this or did Drogba let the cat out the bag by telling the whole world that Mourinho was as cynical as sin in his use of the cards accumulator? I'm sure he admitted Jose encouraged player's to get suspended for the "right" games if the opportunity arose.

This would appear to be merely a continuation of that policy and to be honest, it's street smart more than anything. The rules may be being bent but if you can't prove it, you can't really ping someone for it.
 
Methinks it was very good decision by Mourinho.

Yes, it looked weird, but it's better it was done in that way rather than very brutal fouls, don't you think so?

Of course, Alonso and Ramos could have kicked the ball in stands or just do something less weird, but that's football. It was and it will be a part of it. Some footballers make it better and some make it worse.

The winner was chosen. Ajax were without any chances to make 1/8 when they received cards (Milan secured 1/8 final). If those cards would have changed something, we could say it was bad.

Leaving player at home a game before a more important game (when he has one card to suspension) - Pique last season before Gran Derbi. Or some of injuries decided by Fergie during international period. For me that's the same situation.

Jose, well done.
 
WireRed said:
Am I just imagining this or did Drogba let the cat out the bag by telling the whole world that Mourinho was as cynical as sin in his use of the cards accumulator? I'm sure he admitted Jose encouraged player's to get suspended for the "right" games if the opportunity arose.
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Oh my god I'm going to lose my mind :mad:

All managers in the world do that, not only Mourinho.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
True.

If only someone had filmed this act of skulduggery...
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By act of skulduggery you mean committing a bookable offence, right?

For which they were booked?

But they did it to get booked on purpose, the bastards! So let's all of a sudden increase the penalty for that because we don't like them, and make them miss a more important game!
 
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