I'm sure I remember Scholes or Beckham doing a similar thing. We were cruising and they took a deliberate booking late on to serve the suspension in a dead rubber game.
Edit: ahh I think Mockney's right. It was Becks for England.
Madrid's deliberate red cards
- Thread starter Carl
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I'm sure I remember Scholes or Beckham doing a similar thing. We were cruising and they took a deliberate booking late on to serve the suspension in a dead rubber game.
Edit: ahh I think Mockney's right. It was Becks for England.
This has all come about becasue of the poor things yellow cards are given out for. A mis timed tackle as long as its not a cyncical or malicious should be a foul and nothing more. Then if a player gets a yellow card for cheating, continual fouling or a very poor challenge then he should do 10 minutes in a sin bin. Punish them in the game that matters not the next one. Why should the next time get the benefit of someone behaving badly? If a player was to perform a poor cynical tackle on the edge of the area I would want him punished there and then not the next game. this would also stop players missing big cup finals for what could be 2 unjustified yellow cards spread over a long period in a tournament
OK - I've lost track. What are the CL rules on this now?
After those reds last night - it's just the yellow from the match that gets wiped, right? Not any earlier ones?
Do group round yellows ever get wiped, did that rule change to protect the final (from losing a Keane say) ever go through?
After those reds last night - it's just the yellow from the match that gets wiped, right? Not any earlier ones?
Do group round yellows ever get wiped, did that rule change to protect the final (from losing a Keane say) ever go through?
This is very, very poor sportsmanship on Madrid's behalf although in reality, all they have done is use the rules to their advantage. Glenn Hoddle summed it up on Sky Sports last night when he said that everyone in England used to do it in the reserves when yellow cards from reserve games used to count in the first team games as well.
I'd have been doing the same as A football manager if I'm honest although I would probabm have tried to be a bit more subtle about it - give the red some shot for a poor decision or persistently foul toward the end of the game.
The way it was done just showed up as being deliberate, especially from Ramos as he had the experience of seein what had happened to Alonso.
Very unprofessional and unsportsmanlike but nothing really to complain about. UEFAs fault for allowing rules like this to exist. If Fergie does the same tonight so United fan in their right mind will complain
I'd have been doing the same as A football manager if I'm honest although I would probabm have tried to be a bit more subtle about it - give the red some shot for a poor decision or persistently foul toward the end of the game.
The way it was done just showed up as being deliberate, especially from Ramos as he had the experience of seein what had happened to Alonso.
Very unprofessional and unsportsmanlike but nothing really to complain about. UEFAs fault for allowing rules like this to exist. If Fergie does the same tonight so United fan in their right mind will complain
Whats the big problem with it? Has nobody ever used a loophole in thier favour before? Big deal.
Common sense
Sadly it combines poor sportsmanship with common sense, which is always a bit depressing.
This thread needs youtube links.
Found one:
Found one:
Well, it's pretty distasteful, but understandable, and they didn't harm any players in the process.
FIFA and Blatter were really pissed and Beckham had to apologize but since this is Madrid, where Blatter is an honorary member I doubt he'll make a fuss over it.
Alonso much more convincing than Ramos there. Mind you, after the match Ramos said he didn't see why the ref bothered to book him - the contest was over, Madrid were a man down
and he was just playing for time because the manager likes clean sheets. The ref got sucker-punched really. If he'd twigged what was happening could he have told Mourinho and Casillas to get the players under control?
Beckham had to apologise because he opened his mouth, something like - everyone thinks I'm thick, but I'm smart enough to get sent off - which sounded like boasting and was an invitation to moralise.
Everybody will spend a couple of days moralising about Madrid too. My money's on Platini looking pained and talking about respect.
How can you compare the Suarez thing to this? He knew if he did it he would miss the biggest game of his life but was saving his side in the process, totally unselfish act and anybody in their right mind would do the same.
What Alonso and Ramos have done is abuse an admittedly ridiculous system and if nothing else was incredibly disrespectful towards Ajax, this is the main reason I couldn't see Fergie telling his players to do anything like this because he does have a respect for the game and most teams in general.
Yeah Scholes also did it against Juventus I think to get out of some meaningless game in the Nou Camp about 11 years ago.
Lol at people crying rivers over this.
It's simply tactical and common sense. Players get booked for feck all these days, so it's also a great FU to 'the man.'
It's simply tactical and common sense. Players get booked for feck all these days, so it's also a great FU to 'the man.'
I can't remember when or who, but we have 100% done this before. As Pogue said, it's the rules that are the real issue here.
Anyway, what's more unsporting. Getting a second yellow to clean your slate in face of stupid laws, or hacking down a player Ole style to avoid losing a goal? Or fielding a weaker team like we've done on many an occasion?
So you are saying that the Madrid deliberate reds (which had no impact on the game they were playing in) are bad, but Suarez deliberately handling the ball to prevent a surely game winning goal is OK and excusable? How bizarre.
Without doubt the last man foul and the fielding of a weaker team, but nobody has a problem with either of those because we've done them.
edit: and yes, I was about 99% sure we'd done this same thing before but as I couldn't think of examples I didn't want to state is as fact.
How is that unselfish? He denied a team their rightful chance to the next round in the world cup, because he decided to handball it, that is about as unsporting as you are going to get.
What Alonso and Ramos did was sweet feck all in the grand scheme of things, at least to the team they faced. So they are disrespectful to Ajax, but Ghana think Suarez is a hero for them? Come on get real.
I'm racking my brains, I'm sure it wasn't even that many years ago.
Yep, happy to look past the real unsporting things we've done, as long as it means we get to be outraged and call some other team unsporting cnuts.
Outraged! Appalled! Disgusted! Except in reality most are none of those things, but not wanting to pass up the opportunity to be morally superior.
Or showboating when you're Portugese and 4-0 up against petulant Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime who don't like it?
How is that unselfish? He denied a team their rightful chance to the next round in the world cup, because he decided to handball it, that is about as unsporting as you are going to get.
What Alonso and Ramos did was sweet feck all in the grand scheme of things, at least to the team they faced. So they are disrespectful to Ajax, but Ghana think Suarez is a hero for them? Come on get real.
He made the call there and then to take that red, it may not have paid off had the penalty been tucked away. He is made out to be a villain but all he did was give his side a 50/50 chance of progress instead of zero, would anybody even remember if the penalty had been scored? I don't even like Suarez by the way, good player but a little cheat at times but I have no problem with what he did in that game.
I'm not saying the Ramos and Alonso thing is that big a deal but it does show a lack of respect for the game and they certainly shouldn't be patted on the back for it.
Which, oddly, seems to be exactly what you are doing to Suarez for cheating his opponents out of a goal.
Better they got their yellows for time wasting instead of sliding in tackles and risk injury.
Yea, that's a part of the 'they could have made it less obvious' argument that I don't understand. I think I even saw one person suggest they should have just persistently fouled until they got their second yellows. Surely this was the least objectionable way of doing it?
But the penalty wasn't scored, and they went out.....
All he did was give his side a 50/50 chance (which they never should have had anyway), while equally denying a victory to Ghana that should have been theirs.
I don't understand how you can see Suarez's actions as fine, despite having massive consequences, but see the Madrid players as villains, for doing something which is yet to have any consequence.
Shows a lack of respect to the game when players try and wipe their slate clean, but not when you deliberately deny the opposition on a world stage by cheating in the final seconds?
There's a flaw in there somewhere.
There's a flaw in there somewhere.
Best way would have been to take off their shirts and run and celebrate. Would have looked odd mind, celebrating nothing but your impending dismissal, but still, would have been entertaining.
I'm sure Scholes has done that too
It's clever tactics by Madrid ensuring key players will be avaliable to them in the knockout stages. They may aswell miss a dead rubber match as they have already won the Group.
That would have made Rory McGrath's annual 'I need some Christmas money' football related DVD for sure!
It's Danny Dyer now. Keep up grandad.
'feckin right in my face that one. feck me. feck me I was scared for a minute there. Dangerous! feck me. Did you see that?! Must be this 3D business, proper business this, makes it look like it's coming right at ya...business. Proper shit me up'
He did, but they were also given a numerical advantage and a penalty which you'd at least expect a professional footballer to be able to get on target.
It comes down to personal preference I guess, I'd do what Suarez did in the same situation 100 times out of 100 because it was the only option he had, whereas I'd never do what Alonso or Ramos did because of my genuine love for the game.
How many of you then can honestly say you wouldn't have handled that ball to give your country a chance to get to the semi finals of the worlds biggest sporting tournament?
It's been a long time since I made a Christmas list.
Not that 'own goals and gaffs' was ever on there anyway, but still. Danny Dyer though, really? I bet that makes for awful commentary. They should use the guy from 'come dine with me'.
That makes absolutely no sense. You have such a strong love for the game that it disgusts you to see two players deliberately get sent off for time wasting, but at the same time you have no problem with deliberate handball on the goal line to deny a winning goal in the World Cup?
I think you need to have a lie down.
I tend to agree but then if a player takes a deliberate red to save a goal at then end of a game with a tackle from behind (say like the famous one by Ole) we don't scream and moan about bad sportsmanship but rave about a player "taking one for the team". Ole at least had the good grace to walk without even seeing if the referee was an idiot who was going to let him get away with it but the point remains.