[dazjoe]

From Wiki:

Luke Paul Hoare Shaw (born 12 July 1995) is an English professional footballer who plays as a left-back for Premier League club Manchester United and the England national team when he needs a new contract or an upcoming international tournament

 

[Alemar]

So a new injury while still injured? He upped a level

 

[TheRedHearted]

So a new injury while still injured? He upped a level

He got an injury while getting injured maybe.

All jokes aside i feel sorry for him and for us of course.

 

[crossy1686]

 

[devilish]

Nah we will be alright. We were to able to attract Onana, De Ligt and Ugarte, all players playing at big clubs after the "revoking a contract offer". People go way overboard with the unable to sign players nonsense. As long as we offer competitive wages there will be players always willing to join.

Chelsea have signed many high rated young players with very limited pathway into the first team and frozen out some high paid players too. Remember Chelsea freezing out Chalobah, Chilwell and few other players and weren't even allowed to train with the first team squad? And there weren't any attitude issues too with those two if I'm not wrong. Didn't stop them from signing more players and now Chalobah is back in their first team squad. Is it the ethical thing to do? Ofcourse not. But that's the way things sometimes work at big clubs.

What players care is money. Even this 'competition' thing is nonsense. Its important for them because if a club isn't successful then they won't get bonuses.

Players tend to gauge their salary expectations on the high earners. That's why United's salaries increases conceded with Keane's bump in salary back in the day and when the club foolishly paid Sanchez an astronomical salary.

Shaw is on 150k a week which dwarfs the salary of all our other 3 left backs combined (Malacia, Dorgu and Amass). That's a problem for two reasons. First of all if we're paying 150k to Shaw then we can't bring in a top quality LB on similar salary due to PSR/FFP reasons. Secondly the moment Dorgu or any other WB does well he'll be knocking at the manager's door asking the same salary of the guy who makes tik toks and only play for England. I suspect its the reason why the club had been reluctant in adding a new top quality LB to the team which in turn had hindered our performances for so many years.

 

[Wibble]

Sacking the player will require us to pay the reminder of his contract which is a non starter. However there are ways to go around that. For example its within the club's rights to push the players into treatments or surgeries meant not to put his career in place but simply to squeeze as much game time out of the player as possible. That can scare a player into an early retirement or some sort of settlement. Players tend not to want to spend 2 years in the surgery room with the risk of ending crippled for life just because of some contract. If I remember well that's the reason why Van Basten called it a day when he did.

Some people might perceive that as cruel. However I'd invite people to see the bigger picture and analyze the damage of having a 150k a week player on our payroll while contributing to next to nothing. I mean if you take all our LB's salaries (Dorgu on 40k, Malacia on75k and Amass around 10k) they don't make Shaw's salary COMBINED. That means the moment Dorgu or Amass start playing well then they'll come knocking at the manager's door demanding to be paid at least as much as the one whose never available. At a time of FFP, PSR and the club losing money that's a huge problem that must be sorted.

Apart from being unethical and immoral such action are also illegal under employment law.

 

[Tallis]

I have to acknowledge that inspite of being injured for long periods with some pretty serious injuries, he has been able to maintain a fairly high level of performance. There are plenty of players who were done after missing 1-2 seasons. Even in the Euro final, thought he was very good inspite of him just coming back from injury.

This is not to say that we should keep him etc but more to give credit where its due.

 

[devilish]

Apart from being unethical and immoral such action are also illegal under employment law.

Players go under the knife and they attend intense physiotherapy sessions to try and resurrect their career every time. If Shaw doesn't have it in him to try then fair enough. Hence why players retire after all. As said before Van Basten retired because he couldn't go through yet to rounds and rounds of surgeries for an outside chance of ever playing again.

 

[julianfr]

Can we change the thread title?
Luke Shaw 2024(??)-25(???!!!) Performances

 

[Tallis]

I don't think that trying to get a player in the condition to play football is unethical or immoral in any way. As said before it did happened before.

Bad stuff mate. I think its too terrible even to imagine.

Imagine if employers in all walk of life started acting similarly.

I definitely would not support Utd if it came to light that we were doing this stuff.

 

[Wibble]

Players go under the knife and they attend intense physiotherapy sessions to try and resurrect their career every time. If Shaw doesn't have it in him to try then fair enough. Hence why players retire after all. As said before Van Basten retired because he couldn't go through yet to rounds and rounds of surgeries for an outside chance of ever playing again.

Deliberately taking actions to the detriment of a player's health and wellbeing for some notional financial gain by a multi-billion pound employer? Sounds like texbook unethical, immoral and illegal behavior. The damages from the ensuing lawsuit would be spectacular in size, and the reputational damage to the club would be far bigger still. Who would want to play for (or support) a club that acted like this?

Sounds more like a thought experiment than a serious suggestion tbh.

 

[hellhunter]

Deliberately taking actions to the detriment of a player's health and wellbeing for some notional financial gain by a multi-billion pound employer? Sounds like texbook unethical, immoral and illegal behavior. The damages from the ensuing lawsuit would be spectacular in size, and the reputational damage to the club would be far bigger still. Who would want to play for (or support) a club that acted like this?

Sounds more like a thought experiment than a serious suggestion tbh.

But someone else in the history of football acted like absolute dicks before, surely makes it right for us?!

 

[devilish]

Bad stuff mate. I think its too terrible even to imagine.

Imagine if employers in all walk of life started acting similarly.

I definitely would not support Utd if it came to light that we were doing this stuff.

Players go through the knife and attend gruesome physiotherapy sessions in a bid to save their career every time. If they don't have it in them to continue then they'll usually retire or leave. Players are on huge salaries and when someone is on a huge salary then they are expected to perform. Hence why when a player stop performing things usually get sour very quickly. Keane wasn't happy of how the club treated him, Robson and Bruce in the end. I am sure that neither Sancho nor Rashford are particularly happy of how the club treated them as well.

 

[devilish]

Deliberately taking actions to the detriment of a player's health and wellbeing for some notional financial gain by a multi-billion pound employer? Sounds like texbook unethical, immoral and illegal behavior. The damages from the ensuing lawsuit would be spectacular in size, and the reputational damage to the club would be far bigger still. Who would want to play for (or support) a club that acted like this?

Sounds more like a thought experiment than a serious suggestion tbh.

I never said that. What I said is to shift from trying to save his career long term to trying to squeeze as much game time as possible. That happens every time and risk is part of the game. Blomqvist played in that CL final with an injury that ended costed him his career. Roberto Baggio spent the last season after a number of games having to be helped into his house by his wife because he was too knackered to do it himself. Batistuta can't even walk correctly and Van Basten can't twist his foot as a normal person would. Hargreaves once accused us of mismanaging him as well. I can't recall anyone suing or calling it immoral or unethical back in the day. Its part of the game.

I confess that I don't follow football on a global scale as I once did. However I can't think of many instances were injured players just show up with the national team or on tik toks humiliating single mothers on benefits. There again these days there's a lot of things that only seem to happen at Manchester United.

 

[devilish]

But someone else in the history of football acted like absolute dicks before, surely makes it right for us?!

Sentimentality is one of the reasons why we're in 13th place. There's always seem to be a reason behind everything whether its Lingard's and Rashford's personal issues, Sancho's mental condition, Shaw's injuries (but he does turns up fine while partying or with England). Its a shame that none of them ever considered lessen the pressure by taking a pay cut. It seems that all sacrifices must be done by the club. And yes been there, done that.

 

[hellhunter]

Sentimentality is one of the reasons why we're in 13th place. There's always seem to be a reason behind everything whether its Lingard's and Rashford's personal issues, Sancho's mental condition, Shaw's injuries (but he does turns up fine while partying or with England). Its a shame that none of them ever considered lessen the pressure by taking a pay cut. It seems that all sacrifices must be done by the club. And yes been there, done that.

That's a total myth

 

[devilish]

That's a total myth

Can you name me a player whose been injured for months, he goes and play for his national team and then return injured for months again which by the looks of it might turn out to be almost a year? Is that acceptable? Do you deem that SAF would see that as acceptable? I mean back then players were expected to pull out of the national team to be fit for Manchester United.

Anyway I said my piece. I conclude by saying that if we believe that we won by being sentimental and by cuddling our players then we're mistaken. We didn't and no one ever did. Keane himself confirmed how unhappy he was how things turned with Bruce, Robson and himself in the end. Considering the player's character I doubt that it was because they forgot the chocolate under the player's pillows. Successful clubs are ruthless.

 

[hellhunter]

Can you name me a player whose been injured for months, he goes and play for his national team and then return injured for months again which by the looks of it might turn out to be almost a year? Is that acceptable? Do you deem that SAF would see that as acceptable? I mean back then players were expected to pull out of the national team to be fit for Manchester United.

I'd need to look up the source again, but he (relatively) missed more minutes for England than for United

 

[devilish]

I'd need to look up the source again, but he (relatively) missed more minutes for England than for United

That didn't answer my question though. Can you name me a player whose been injured for months, he then goes and play for his national team and then return injured for months again which by the looks of it might turn out to be almost a year? Do you deem that as acceptable? Do you think that would be acceptable by the likes of SAF?

I love redcafe and there's people in here whose far far more intelligent than I am and I learnt so much from them. I met one in person and jeez she's a frigging genius in comparison to me. Which is why I can't phantom why its mainstream to think that clubs are happy to just fork huge salaries for players who are not performing. I got pelters during the Sancho's 'depression' phase when I said that this is unsustainable and he'll be pushed out unless he gets his shit sorted. The Maltese as a whole were dragged into the subject for that comment. Guess what? Turned out I was right

 

[Wrecking ralf]

Ignore that report

Frigging hell is he 30 this year? Why did I think he was like 26 or something

 

[devilish]

I apologize as I might have gone too tough on this

 

[Xeque_279]

Apparently it's not as bad and he's expected back in training Monday?

Still don't see him starting any time soon. Amorim will be really cautious with him, if not for this season, at least to be able to sell him in the summer (Althought I doubt that will happen too).

 

[JJ12]

Hector Moreno is a Cnut.

Is he Shaws chef?

 

[Trequarista10]

That didn't answer my question though. Can you name me a player whose been injured for months, he then goes and play for his national team and then return injured for months again which by the looks of it might turn out to be almost a year? Do you deem that as acceptable? Do you think that would be acceptable by the likes of SAF?

I love redcafe and there's people in here whose far far more intelligent than I am and I learnt so much from them. I met one in person and jeez she's a frigging genius in comparison to me. Which is why I can't phantom why its mainstream to think that clubs are happy to just fork huge salaries for players who are not performing. I got pelters during the Sancho's 'depression' phase when I said that this is unsustainable and he'll be pushed out unless he gets his shit sorted. The Maltese as a whole were dragged into the subject for that comment. Guess what? Turned out I was right

You can't stay on topic.

It's easy to "be right" when you twist what others have said, change the subject, make non-sensical comparisons, ignore data and go off on tangents which have nothing to do with the original points that you or others have made.

 

[pascell]

Frigging hell is he 30 this year? Why did I think he was like 26 or something

He's eligible for a testimonial this summer, as he'll have been at the club 10 years.

 

[devilish]

You can't stay on topic.

It's easy to "be right" when you twist what others have said, change the subject, make non-sensical comparisons, ignore data and go off on tangents which have nothing to do with the original points that you or others have made.

I don't want to divert the topic but I am all open to discuss this via pm if you want to

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

Is he Shaws chef?

He's the lad who gave Shaw a horrific injury that ultimately has made him injury prone

 

[Tom Van Persie]

He's eligible for a testimonial this summer, as he'll have been at the club 10 years.

It will be 11 years in the summer. He joined July 2014.

 

[Utterly De Ligt'd]

I know we’re all frustrated but that’s a ridiculous statement to make. He’s absolutely nowhere near one of our worst signings ever. Yes he’s missed around 6 full seasons in total out of 11. But when he has played, he’s been one of the very few players who we can regard as world class in the last 13 years.

Part of being world class is being available. I can't believe you typed what you did thinking it was a defense, thanks for making my point, he's only played half the time, whilst being one of our highest paid players during most of that time. His whole career is ups and downs of form based on whether there is an international tournament or he needs a new contract. He has clearly played for himself and his bank account his whole career.

Yes he had a bad injury, but if it was that bad and you can't carry on anymore than do the honorable thing like Gary Neville and retire. But I think what happened yesterday was eye opening to his situation, in the morning it was announced he would be out another 4 weeks, the reaction in the fanbase was an almost universal sentiment that he needs to be binned off, next thing you know he'll be back in training on Monday. Everyone works with someone that is always calling in sick, they are hardly ever at work, there is always an excuse, headache, sore back, whatever, they're just never at work, and everyone knows they're full of shit, that they are absoluely fine, they just don't want to come to work. That is Luke Shaw, footballers are human, it's impossible that there aren't these types of footballers because they exist in every other profession in the world.

 

[Marwood]

He's the lad who gave Shaw a horrific injury that ultimately has made him injury prone

He had a bad season of injuries before then didn't he? Pretty sure his fitness and lifestyle was questioned before then as well by a couple of managers. Shaw himself has pretty much said he's not been as fit as he should be at times.

And as fans we've seen his weight fluctuate, him looking heavy at times.

 

[Nickelodeon]

Why are there so many people posting on what is just a couple of days away from training for Shaw? Almost like people want another injury for him so they can continue to bash him on this forum.

On one hand, people express sympathy when long term injuries happen and when the players actually need support, as a fanbase, we are desperate to get rid of them because they're crocks.

 

[PoTMS]

Do we get compensation from the FA? At least Ratcliffe is happy.

 

[Ayoba]

Has it been confirmed that he's out for another 4 weeks?

 

[IRN-BRUno]

Do we get compensation from the FA? At least Ratcliffe is happy.

If a player is injured whilst on international duty, FIFA would be paying compensation. Which should be the player's basic salary up to $7.5m and for a maximum of 365 days. And that only comes into effect after 28 days.

I can't remember exactly but I think with Shaw this current injury came after he'd returned so it wouldn't qualify in this case.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

If a player is injured whilst on international duty, FIFA would be paying compensation. Which should be the player's basic salary up to $7.5m and for a maximum of 365 days. And that only comes into effect after 28 days.

I can't remember exactly but I think with Shaw this current injury came after he'd returned so it wouldn't qualify in this case.

Yeah, it's just inkeeping with our usual luck.

The injury was probably in part to his rushed attempts to get fit for the international tournament - and him playing straight away at a high level in the later stages as there was no time to ease him in as would be ideal

However, because he didn't actually get injured while away with them, and instead quickly broke down while back training with us, then it doesn't qualify as being injured on international duty and we wouldn't have got any compensation for it. Though I'm sure it certainly didn't help his attempts to be fit for the start of the club season and probably played a part in that latest injury.

Mind you, I'm sure he'd have broken down with an injury not much later anyway, regardless of any summer tournament. Just would have been handy from a compensation point of view had it happened while still with England rather than when straight back with us.

 

[Amir]

If someone wants to say that Shaw made an effort to play in Euro 2024 while he doesn't make the same effort to play for United - or anything like that - should come out and say it clearly. Not hint or whatever.

 

[El-Manos]

If we can sell here in the summer we shouldn't question to move him on. His injury record is beyond shocking.

 

[GlazersHater]

and by next week he means next season. His body is finished can't play at this level anymore.

We should try to get rid in the summer, it's going to be almost impossible as nobody's going to pay for a player who's always injured but we could at least try.

 

[SungSam7]

and by next week he means next season. His body is finished can't play at this level anymore.

We should try to get rid in the summer, it's going to be almost impossible as nobody's going to pay for a player who's always injured but we could at least try.

Nobody is going to buy him, and the pay he is on, he wouldn't be taking a cut due to he knows his body won't last.

Just like Phil Jones, we will have to wait until his contract expires.

 

[Chief123]

Part of being world class is being available. I can't believe you typed what you did thinking it was a defense, thanks for making my point, he's only played half the time, whilst being one of our highest paid players during most of that time. His whole career is ups and downs of form based on whether there is an international tournament or he needs a new contract. He has clearly played for himself and his bank account his whole career.

Yes he had a bad injury, but if it was that bad and you can't carry on anymore than do the honorable thing like Gary Neville and retire. But I think what happened yesterday was eye opening to his situation, in the morning it was announced he would be out another 4 weeks, the reaction in the fanbase was an almost universal sentiment that he needs to be binned off, next thing you know he'll be back in training on Monday. Everyone works with someone that is always calling in sick, they are hardly ever at work, there is always an excuse, headache, sore back, whatever, they're just never at work, and everyone knows they're full of shit, that they are absoluely fine, they just don't want to come to work. That is Luke Shaw, footballers are human, it's impossible that there aren't these types of footballers because they exist in every other profession in the world.

You’ve typed a lot which deflects from your original point that Shaw is one of the worst ever signings utd have made which is frankly nonsense.