[hellhunter]

It was obvious before he went that a) he wouldn't be fit to play properly and b) that he'd struggle to stay fit after rushing himself to be ready for the Euros.

He shouldn't have been picked for the Euros and he should have had enough common sense to realise that it was a bad move to rush his fitness and maybe let someone else go who could actually play.

But then again, when you see a grown man paid millions a year to play football, on a video miming along to stupid songs about people on benefits, common sense probably doesn't exist there.

How is that obvious? That's only a thing if the injuries are somehow connected

 

[MaMa given red]

That’s all a bit captain hindsight though, don’t you think? He played in mid Feb 2024, tried to be back for Utd for the end of the season, didn’t make it- also missed the group stage for England, but played some of the knockouts. Then picked up an injury back in training for Utd, that people seem to be trying to link to his England exertions with absolutely no evidence. He probably started preseason fitter if anything, but the guy is just injury prone. I’m sure he didn’t choose to be like that. You’re looking at the whole of the past year with the hindsight of someone who has lived through it.

Yeah I have no qualms with him playing for England. I don't think anything would have changed significantly even if he'd been left out of the squad.

Sadly for Shaw it's clear that his body isn't up to playing football any more. Even when he does play now it feels like he's just between injuries.

The best we can hope for is that he retires altogether in the summer.

 

[Oranges038]

How is that obvious? That's only a thing if the injuries are somehow connected

Yeah, any injury prone player who rushes fitness will usually end up being out injured again not long after.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Back in team training, wasn't it?

Quote that was published this morning by Romano from Amorim was 'It's a complicated moment to tell you a timeline'. I can't embed tweets the now but that's from Romano's X feed quoting Amorim.

 

[Jippy]

People seem to work under the assumption Shaw played 90 minutes every match for England as well

Yep, one start and two substitute appearances totalling 177 minutes, according to Uefa.

It's just the same arguments over and over in this thread. People surprised or angry that a footballer takes the squad offer for the Euros when it will be his last major tournament and his team has a real chance of winning. He went with United's blessing and was checked over by both United and England medical staff beforehand.

Of course his preseason injury was frustrating, but no evidence it was linked to the Euros and not like he doesn't pick them up regularly regardless.

It was obvious before he went that a) he wouldn't be fit to play properly and b) that he'd struggle to stay fit after rushing himself to be ready for the Euros.

He shouldn't have been picked for the Euros and he should have had enough common sense to realise that it was a bad move to rush his fitness and maybe let someone else go who could actually play.

But then again, when you see a grown man paid millions a year to play football, on a video miming along to stupid songs about people on benefits, common sense probably doesn't exist there.

This is the crux of it, people can't shake their hatred (often, but not always class-based) of 'a grown man' being paid vast sums to play football. Even more so one who has the audacity to get so badly injured he nearly lost a leg while playing for United.

 

[elmo]

I'm not saying miss a game, miss a paycheck. No one ever signs that contract.

What I'm saying is if you have to pay someone 200k/week that there has to be some kind of availability criterion. You get this, but the club gets that. If a player insists on being paid for five years straight even if that means five years of no-shows due to injury, we need to start saying no to that kind of contract.

It’s covered by insurance

 

[BelfastRed2021]

I was talking about Shaw 100 percent

 

[Utterly De Ligt'd]

You’ve typed a lot which deflects from your original point that Shaw is one of the worst ever signings utd have made which is frankly nonsense.

A player who has put his contract and England career ahead of United his whole career, a player that has missed more games for the club then they have played over an eleven year period, and weirdly a lot of those injuries seem to coincide with the times when he doesn't need a new contract or there isn't an international tournament. The first player to pack it in and go missing as soon as things get tough, look at all our worst seasons recently, as soon as we get to the tail end and there isn't much left, he always seems to get an injury and miss the rest of the season.

He's long been considered one of the potential dressing room leakers, which only makes sense, let's be honest, Luckhurst wasn't ringing up Fred for gossip, the players the media protects are the ones that help the media. Shaw has to be one of our most protected players in the media for years.

And at the end of the day, he could pull of a top class performance, but it wasn't consistent, most of the time he put in the basics of what you would expect from a LB, good sometimes, great occasionally, shite occasionally. If was any better than he wouldn't have spent his whole career at a United that was clearly going nowhere. TBH, I think he probably possesses the ability to be top class he just doesn't have the attitude.

Value for money, commitment, consistent performance, reliable, leadership material, he doesn't have any of that, I fully stand by my comment, if you look at how much we have paid him over his contract, compared to what we got in return, I think he's definitely up there in our worst signings.

 

[DuruttiColumn]

He’s apparently due back in training on Monday.

That would be the day that I’d tell him he can just sit around and wait for his contract to expire.

Utter waste of time doing anything else with him

That’s a weird take, when fit he’s been a vital member of the team

 

[NicolaSacco]

It was obvious before he went that a) he wouldn't be fit to play properly and b) that he'd struggle to stay fit after rushing himself to be ready for the Euros.

He shouldn't have been picked for the Euros and he should have had enough common sense to realise that it was a bad move to rush his fitness and maybe let someone else go who could actually play.

But then again, when you see a grown man paid millions a year to play football, on a video miming along to stupid songs about people on benefits, common sense probably doesn't exist there.

It wasn’t obvious before, you are just saying that now. His best ever run/ injury free period for Utd was 20/21and the first 20 games of 21/22. Probably missing no more than 5 games in a 90 game spell. And that sandwiched Euro 2020 (which was held summer 2021). You can’t just blame him and England for everything. Or if you do, provide some actual evidence!

 

[NicolaSacco]

Yeah, any injury prone player who rushes fitness will usually end up being out injured again not long after.

What was the connection. Were they the same part of the body, or two interconnected parts. You seem so convinced so this should be fairly easy.

 

[Coops73]

Injured again? feck me we’ll be bringing him on the pitch like “Weekend at Bernie’s” just to prove to everyone he’s alive.

 

[K Stand Knut]

That’s a weird take, when fit he’s been a vital member of the team

So about as vital as Marcus Rashford in the past 12 months.

Well worth it

 

[Oranges038]

It wasn’t obvious before, you are just saying that now. His best ever run/ injury free period for Utd was 20/21and the first 20 games of 21/22. Probably missing no more than 5 games in a 90 game spell. And that sandwiched Euro 2020 (which was held summer 2021). You can’t just blame him and England for everything. Or if you do, provide some actual evidence!

An injury prone player who was injured for 4 or 5 months, then rushed their fitness to be ready for a 3 week tournament in the summer, just about plays at it. Then comes back to his club and continues to struggle with injury problems for the next 6/7 months.

You think there's absolutely no way anyone could have seen that happening?

 

[NicolaSacco]

An injury prone player who was injured for 4 or 5 months, then rushed their fitness to be ready for a 3 week tournament in the summer, just about plays at it. Then comes back to his club and continues to struggle with injury problems for the next 6/7 months.

You think there's absolutely no way anyone could have seen that happening?

You were about to show us the link, remember? Just explain it - layman's terms.

What was his injury at the end of 23/24 season, and how does that link to his injury at the beginning of 24/25?

For extra points tell us how you came to the conclusion he wash 'rushing' in the summer, and how that affected his injury during pre-season. It should be easy.

Ask yourself - 'if I can't answer ANY of these questions without guesswork and insinuation, should I be contributing at all?

 

[lex talionis]

It’s covered by insurance

Can you elaborate on that? Thanks!

 

[Mercurial]

So about as vital as Marcus Rashford in the past 12 months.

Well worth it

When fit he is Shawberto

 

[hellhunter]

Can you elaborate on that? Thanks!

At least in Germany, health insurance covers (parts of?) a player's salary if they're injured for more than 6 weeks

 

[K Stand Knut]

When fit he is Shawberto

And when Rashford cared he was the next Mbappe! Unfortunately, neither happened often enough, and it’s debatable if either will happen again

 

[Red in STL]

Yeah, any injury prone player who rushes fitness will usually end up being out injured again not long after.

There is no evidence to suggest that he rushed his fitness though, Shaw had originally been expected to play for United before the end of the season but didn't quite make it, he didn't play in the group games and was 'eased' back in the knockout games where he was fine, the res-season injury was unrelated to the previous injury so can hardly be blamed on 'rushing' fitness, in fact, the whole purpose of preseason training is to get fit

 

[NicolaSacco]

There is no evidence to suggest that he rushed his fitness though, Shaw had originally been expected to play for United before the end of the season but didn't quite make it, he didn't play in the group games and was 'eased' back in the knockout games where he was fine, the res-season injury was unrelated to the previous injury so can hardly be blamed on 'rushing' fitness, in fact, the whole purpose of preseason training is to get fit

This thread must hold the Redcafe record for posters constantly insinuating connections between things, and then hiding when asked to show an iota of proof.

 

[NicolaSacco]

At least in Germany, health insurance covers (parts of?) a player's salary if they're injured for more than 6 weeks

It did in Championship Manager 1993

 

[Red in STL]

This thread must hold the Redcafe record for posters constantly insinuating connections between things, and then hiding when asked to show an iota of proof.

Probably not the record, that'll belong to the takeover one I would think!

Edit: Or maybe the Greenwood one

 

[Mercurial]

And when Rashford cared he was the next Mbappe! Unfortunately, neither happened often enough, and it’s debatable if either will happen again

Shaw give good effort when fit, Rashford doesn't. Automatically makes Shaw more likeable.

 

[Oranges038]

You were about to show us the link, remember? Just explain it - layman's terms.

What was his injury at the end of 23/24 season, and how does that link to his injury at the beginning of 24/25?

For extra points tell us how you came to the conclusion he wash 'rushing' in the summer, and how that affected his injury during pre-season. It should be easy.

Ask yourself - 'if I can't answer ANY of these questions without guesswork and insinuation, should I be contributing at all?

Jan 2024 he had a thigh muscle injury, then he came back in Feb and had a recurrence of that injury. He had a hamstring injury at the end of 23/24 season just before he was due to come back in time for the cup final. He went to the Euros, despite having a 6 week recovery time frame, he went with the squad to the Euros. Does he get a full and proper recovery and gradual reintroduction to high intensity training and games in a tournament setting? At this point he's after being out for 5 months.

Then at the start of the 24/25 season he comes back and since then it's been something like a calf muscle injuries and a heel injury that's kept him out.

He was also working on a time bound schedule to be fit for at least part of the Euros, stands to reason that his recovery was at least partly rushed to get him ready to play. Fairly obvious that not having a proper recovery and gradual reintroduction to games and training over the summer has had a long term impact on his overall fitness.

Can I provide solid proof that this is the case, no, but for me this is the most likely scenario. He'd should have sat it out and made sure he was fit and ready to go for Utd in August.

 

[Red00012]

United are the laughingstock for handing out contracts where we pay players great wages for years and years while he watches his teammates on the telly.

You’re not wrong but to suggest pay as you play is just mad and never every going to happen

 

[Nas-JR]

At least in Germany, health insurance covers (parts of?) a player's salary if they're injured for more than 6 weeks

There was a talk of the devil's podcast last year where they were talking about how we were the club that insurance companies had to paid out for the most for injuries (which goes to show how horrible last year was injury wise) so they definitely do to an extent.

 

[NicolaSacco]

Jan 2024 he had a thigh muscle injury, then he came back in Feb and had a recurrence of that injury. He had a hamstring injury at the end of 23/24 season just before he was due to come back in time for the cup final. He went to the Euros, despite having a 6 week recovery time frame, he went with the squad to the Euros. Does he get a full and proper recovery and gradual reintroduction to high intensity training and games in a tournament setting? At this point he's after being out for 5 months.

Then at the start of the 24/25 season he comes back and since then it's been something like a calf muscle injuries and a heel injury that's kept him out.

He was also working on a time bound schedule to be fit for at least part of the Euros, stands to reason that his recovery was at least partly rushed to get him ready to play. Fairly obvious that not having a proper recovery and gradual reintroduction to games and training over the summer has had a long term impact on his overall fitness.

Can I provide solid proof that this is the case, no, but for me this is the most likely scenario. He'd should have sat it out and made sure he was fit and ready to go for Utd in August.

So you’ve guessed then. Gotcha.

Next you’ll be telling me you have no medical qualifications.

 

[Oranges038]

So you’ve guessed then. Gotcha.

Next you’ll be telling me you have no medical qualifications.

Yeah, I guessed. The same as anyone who all his injuries are totally unrelated.

 

[NicolaSacco]

Probably not the record, that'll belong to the takeover one I would think!

Edit: Or maybe the Greenwood one

Oof. Good call.

 

[POF]

These are unrelated though. Performance related bonuses are just that- a potential addition to your guaranteed basic salary. What the previous poster is saying is that even that ‘guaranteed basic’ should be under threat, even if the player has his leg snapped in two by an opposition player, whilst playing in a game that Utd have ordered him to play in, despite knowing the risks. I’ll say again, there’s a reason that that never ever happens.

You say it never happens but it's the same thing as just making his basic salary lower and performance incentives higher. I'm sure plenty of clubs do that.

Someone like Bruno who always plays is far more valuable than these guys who are injury prone and his remuneration should cover that.

United probably felt like it didn't matter for years as revenues soared and having players on hugely inflated contracts didn't matter much.

Now they need to put their big boy pants on and start operating like an actual business.

 

[K Stand Knut]

Shaw give good effort when fit, Rashford doesn't. Automatically makes Shaw more likeable.

This isn’t about liking someone though. It’s about a professional sportsman being available to do his job. Or not as the case may be.