[Oldyella]

Doesn’t change my point. He got a long way on youthful energy but hit a wall at the point where it takes much more discipline to keep in peak fitness. Giggs got his debut at 17 but wouldn’t have still been playing over 20 years later if he was carrying as much timber as Rooney.

Yes true. But I think its unfair to compare any player to Giggs. He was a freak.

 

[Red00012]

I'm sure the new United hierarchy will sell him soon enough. Not being fit enough is no good for the club and team especially as he will probably be on high enough wages.

There is no club going to take a chance on him. We’ll be stuck with him until his contract runs out

 

[DJ_21]

So do we think he’s going to play most games as a LCB rather than the LWB?

 

[Hughes35]

I think he would be genuinely world class as a left sided CB in a 3. Unfortunately he just cant stay fit so it's unlikely we will see it for more than a handful of games.

I'm sure the new manager will give him another chance but it should be his last chance..... Although he has a contract until 2027 and no club in the world will buy him because of his injury record.

 

[Brightonian]

I'm not sure why we're talking about 'giving him a chance' or 'getting rid'.

His contract runs until 2027 and he's obviously going nowhere in that time.
When he plays, he's a good, reliable footballer who you want in your team, particularly suited to Amorim's LCB position.
He's not fit very much.

There are no choices to make here, at least until we're into 2026. He will play when he's fit and we'll be pleased to have him. When he's not fit, he won't play.

Let's hope that his and Martinez' inevitable periods of unavailability coincide as little as possible, allowing us to field one of these two good footballers well-suited to the LCB position.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

I'm not sure why we're talking about 'giving him a chance' or 'getting rid'.

It really is quite silly, it seems every time this thread gets bumped there will be a couple of people wanting to show everyone how they are "putting their foot down!"

Sell him to the mythical list of clubs who want to pay his huge wages because they will decide not to check his injury record.

He's a very good player, it's good if he's fit be it for 2 months or the rest of the season.

 

[romufc]

It really is quite silly, it seems every time this thread gets bumped there will be a couple of people wanting to show everyone how they are "putting their foot down!"

Sell him to the mythical list of clubs who want to pay his huge wages because they will decide not to check his injury record.

He's a very good player, it's good if he's fit be it for 2 months or the rest of the season.

I find it strange that people love to wind themselves up. "I cant believe Shaw is here" "Why isn't he sold"

He is on 200k, we have all accepted it was a mistake giving him a contract.

When he is fit, he is a good player though, its not like he is completely useless when fit also.

Also, no club is going to pay us a big fee and his wages, his only option is lower down the league and they aint paying over 100k for a LB.

 

[Oldyella]

So do we think he’s going to play most games as a LCB rather than the LWB?

Not sure he could handle LWB, certainly not for more than the odd game or two. He would just break again. He could be a great LCB though.

 

[SuperiorXI]

Conveniently fit to train for new manager before getting hurt in week 3 and then sitting for a few months. F this guy.

Do you think he wants to be injured?

 

[Grande]

Throughout my time following football I saw all sort of WC FBs. On one side of the spectrum there were defensive beasts such as Beppe Bergomi. Playing against the likes of him was like playing against a brick wall. On the other side of the spectrum there was Roberto Carlos whose attacking acumen was flawless. Then there were those who sat between the two ie players such as Maldini, Irwin and Zanetti. However there was one thing that united them all ie regular 7-8 rating performances, week in week out, season in season out.



This is the injury record per year for shaw

Season	Days	Injuries	Games missed
24/25	169 days	2	36
23/24	236 days	3	50
22/23	13 days	1	3
21/22	85 days	4	18
20/21	89 days	2	18
19/20	91 days	3	23
18/19	53 days	4	11
17/18	190 days	1	32
16/17	176 days	2	30
15/16	288 days	1	64
14/15	121 days	4	31

As said before I don't think anyone can really judge Shaw simply because when he did play badly or was average no one could really come out and say that it was down to him. There's was always that huge question mark looming on whether that was down to him, the managers managing him, his injuries, him struggling to regain form, him picking another injury or him playing through the injury barrier. Which means that all we were left to judge him upon are his good games which skews the view on how good he really is.

Not when 80% of his 236 games the last 6 years have been good or very good.

 

[Sunny Jim]

So do we think he’s going to play most games as a LCB rather than the LWB?

LCB ale the way. IMHO would fit like a glow in that role

 

[Crimson King]

LCB ale the way. IMHO would fit like a glow in that role

Would also put less strain on his legs at this point in his career. Won't need to bomb up and down the wing

 

[appleman]

Yes true. But I think its unfair to compare any player to Giggs. He was a freak.

Yeah, so I heard.

Not when 80% of his 236 games the last 6 years have been good or very good.

Good point, though since he almost missed 200 games, too, that would mean he offered United a good to very good left back coverage for about 40, maybe 45% of their games these past six years.

Say Malacia, Telles, Dalot, Lindelof, Martinez, Wan-Bissaka, Antony collectively added about 50 as the make-do left backs. Out ut of the 400-odd games, that makes for 12.5%.

So in total we could say United had solid left back coverage for about 55% of the time, so almost half of the time, they didn't.

I'm a fan of Shaw's play and he seems to find form faster when returning than he did in the past, but if you check the "what do they add to the team" or how do they solve the United-left-back puzzle during their stay, whether it's due to a lack of reliable covers or not, it does show that relying on (just) Shaw is a risk.

Maybe he'll return to the shape of his 22-23 run, but these past 18 or months showed that there's a huge difference between United with at least two of Malacia, Shaw and Martinez available. But in that time I'm not even sure the majority of the games had us with 1 of them in the squad. Whether it would have made an actual change, how Shaw slot in at LCB to cover for Licha with Malacia on the back had people keep faith in ETH. AWB and Dalot focusing on RB had people really considering misjudging AWB before. Dalot last season showed that with Mazraoui here, it could look pretty good on RB.

Now it's still figuring out how to keep the left back at OK-level.

Yes, ETH should have changed the plan way, way before, when it was clear that waiting for Shaw and Malacia was more imagination than estimation. They learned this when they sent Reguilon back, and he should have planned around Shaw and Malacia's absences, and make a new balance sheet of the current team's possibilities. Some type of 4-3-3 or 4-4-2/4-2-3-1 could always come later and doesn't even take that much retraining. Add the lack of reliability Casemiro's shown last year, Mount's injuries, Bruno's often leaving gaps in midfield when the #10, Ugarte being an unknown factor, Mainoo being too young and new to expect long term consistency from... Something like a 3 at the back would have been a great option, especially since they ended up with more CBs than they expected. Even though you cannot predict a Yoro injury, either, De Ligt, Maguire, Lindelof and even Mazraoui or Casemiro would have been options at RCB.

In that sense I'm glad for United that Amorim is here. I like ETH, or at least his tactical plans, but the plans didn't come to fruition.

Amorim's tenure is also still at an imagination level, not at estimation. But I do think that right now three center backs will bring a lot of stability. It's not surprising to see Antony mentioned as a wingback now, especially after that Liverpool game, and Dalot and Bruno will be way less of a liability in defense and midfield. Casemiro, Mainoo, Ugarte and Eriksen have more cover behind them. Bruno has more space to roam without leaving his midfield behind. Diallo gets more playmaking opportunities and duties when played.

The question would basically be how well the other forwards fit with such a plan. Hojlund being more of an obvious striker is probably an easy fit. Not clearly the best, but a player type more easy to write on the sheet in the sense that you need to consider a little less who plays around him. Zirkzee might be much more in his element with other forwards closer to him, but would putting him next to Hojlund sacrifice too much who you can play between them and the midfield? Or in coverage on the wings besides the wingbacks? Would it matter? Would Garnacho be better as a striker, shadow striker, playmaker or wingback? What about Rashford? Zirkzee, Hojlund, Amad and Bruno seem like more obvious fits, and Rashford does have his striker experience and skills. But will Garnacho bloom more, stagnate or snow under in an Amorim-setup? Or am I thinking too statically about the man's plans? I do hope they will try the 3-CB at least though, at least until fullbacks are no longer an existential crisis.

So, whether Shaw will slot in well at LCB... I think he can do it, I think in a setup with 3 at the back you need your side-center-backs to be able to cover full back spaces as well, or otherwise have your CCB able to join in midfield. So can Licha cover LCB or is he only an option at CCB? Can Malacia (ignoring the question of his level on return)? Same for the RCB. Conceptually speaking, is Yoro the only real option? Is Mazraoui one? Are Maguire and De Ligt flexible enough to cover? Evans or Lindelof?

Currently I'd trust more in Licha at CCB getting forward more to help the midfield's playmaking, rather than placing him LCB and De Ligt or something RCB.

Shaw has the skills, but does he fit an Amorim style LCB-concept? Will he really be back? At a good enough level of quality?

Lot of digression, but the past few seasons Shaw seems like an excellent LCB and LB in a 4 at the back-system. But perhaps that's me being too static in my thinking again.

But, I think it's fair to consider that planning any system based on Shaw will lead to insecurity. When he's back consistently, you can. But now we have no idea if he will be. Only after can we and Amorim find out how he will fit best. But I don't think you can build on a record of 40% of left back coverage at the current state of the club and the way this squad is currently set up.

 

[MadDogg]

He hasn't been playing for months only for him to disrupt his recovery so he could play some games for England. Then he returned to OT injured once again.

Did he disrupt his recovery, or was he at the end of his recovery? If the latter, getting some gametime for England after such a long time out could have been seen as a good kickstart to his return rather than coming in cold at the start of the season. It's also not the same injury, although there's a chance it may be related (it was a hamstring injury last season whereas it's been a calf injury this season) and happened in our preseason, not while he was with England.

 

[croadyman]

LCB ale the way. IMHO would fit like a glow in that role

Yeah that would definitely suit him better

 

[devilish]

Did he disrupt his recovery, or was he at the end of his recovery? If the latter, getting some gametime for England after such a long time out could have been seen as a good kickstart to his return rather than coming in cold at the start of the season. It's also not the same injury, although there's a chance it may be related (it was a hamstring injury last season whereas it's been a calf injury this season) and happened in our preseason, not while he was with England.

When a player is recovering from injury they are eased slowly into the first team. That usually occur first through individual training, games with the reserves, then in low impact training etc. Tournaments are the exact opposite of that. You want players to come in ASAP with little care of what would happen in 1-2 months time. No wonder why Shaw left injured and returned injured.

 

[DJ_21]

LCB ale the way. IMHO would fit like a glow in that role

Won’t replace Martinez though. So will have to be rotation option.

 

[Jippy]

Throughout my time following football I saw all sort of WC FBs. On one side of the spectrum there were defensive beasts such as Beppe Bergomi. Playing against the likes of him was like playing against a brick wall. On the other side of the spectrum there was Roberto Carlos whose attacking acumen was flawless. Then there were those who sat between the two ie players such as Maldini, Irwin and Zanetti. However there was one thing that united them all ie regular 7-8 rating performances, week in week out, season in season out.



This is the injury record per year for shaw

Season	Days	Injuries	Games missed
24/25	169 days	2	36
23/24	236 days	3	50
22/23	13 days	1	3
21/22	85 days	4	18
20/21	89 days	2	18
19/20	91 days	3	23
18/19	53 days	4	11
17/18	190 days	1	32
16/17	176 days	2	30
15/16	288 days	1	64
14/15	121 days	4	31

As said before I don't think anyone can really judge Shaw simply because when he did play badly or was average no one could really come out and say that it was down to him. There's was always that huge question mark looming on whether that was down to him, the managers managing him, his injuries, him struggling to regain form, him picking another injury or him playing through the injury barrier. Which means that all we were left to judge him upon are his good games which skews the view on how good he really is.

That table would be way more useful if it also showed how many games he played in those seasons.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

That table would be way more useful if it also showed how many games he played in those seasons.

Yeah he's averaged 34 games per season for us over the last 5 years.

There is definitely ample evidence to judge what level he is as a player (very good).

 

[MadDogg]

When a player is recovering from injury they are eased slowly into the first team. That usually occur first through individual training, games with the reserves, then in low impact training etc. Tournaments are the exact opposite of that. You want players to come in ASAP with little care of what would happen in 1-2 months time. No wonder why Shaw left injured and returned injured.

What's to say he wasn't doing the individual training and low impact training? Indeed from memory he was already starting to do that before our season ended. He then started full training with England a couple of weeks before he played a game, then got half a game of football in both the quarters and semis before then starting the final. To me that looks like the exact same way a club would have introduced him.

He didn't return injured. He returned fit, but then got injured in our preseason with a different injury than what he had previously.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's definitely innocent. If the club thought he wasn't ready then he shouldn't have been going and I wouldn't be happy that he did. But if the club were happy that he was over that injury that I've got no problem with it, and in fact it wouldn't surprise me if the club was quite happy for him to get further training and some games under his belt. Without knowing the facts in that regard, I'm not going to get upset or hold it against him.

 

[MadDogg]

This is the injury record per year for shaw

Season	Days	Injuries	Games missed
24/25	169 days	2	36
23/24	236 days	3	50
22/23	13 days	1	3
21/22	85 days	4	18
20/21	89 days	2	18
19/20	91 days	3	23
18/19	53 days	4	11
17/18	190 days	1	32
16/17	176 days	2	30
15/16	288 days	1	64
14/15	121 days	4	31

That doesn't look right at all. You seem to have got them from transfermarkt which I would have thought was accurate, but I don't see how it can be.

Most obviously, 36 games missed in 24/25? We've only played 18 matches, and if they are including national team matches then England have only played 6. Last season he missed 37 matches for us and another 7 for England, so I'm not sure where they got 50 from. Unless I'm missing something?

 

[devilish]

What's to say he wasn't doing the individual training and low impact training? Indeed from memory he was already starting to do that before our season ended. He then started full training with England a couple of weeks before he played a game, then got half a game of football in both the quarters and semis before then starting the final. To me that looks like the exact same way a club would have introduced him.

He didn't return injured. He returned fit, but then got injured in our preseason with a different injury than what he had previously.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's definitely innocent. If the club thought he wasn't ready then he shouldn't have been going and I wouldn't be happy that he did. But if the club were happy that he was over that injury that I've got no problem with it, and in fact it wouldn't surprise me if the club was quite happy for him to get further training and some games under his belt. Without knowing the facts in that regard, I'm not going to get upset or hold it against him.

A euro semi final and final is extremely competitive mate. Those aren't games you ease players in. Also note that if a player is called for the national team and he claims to be fit then there's little the club could do about it.

 

[devilish]

That doesn't look right at all. You seem to have got them from transfermarkt which I would have thought was accurate, but I don't see how it can be.

Most obviously, 36 games missed in 24/25? We've only played 18 matches, and if they are including national team matches then England have only played 6. Last season he missed 37 matches for us and another 7 for England, so I'm not sure where they got 50 from. Unless I'm missing something?

It's from transfermarkt

 

[Dan_F]

Won’t replace Martinez though. So will have to be rotation option.

There’s a good chance he will play in the centre. From what I’ve seen Amorim likes that player to step into midfield and bring the ball out, which Martinez is definitely most suited to. From a physical point of view, it’s not much different to playing in a back four.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Did the club ask him not to go to the Euros? Did he get injured playing in the Euros?

 

[DJ_21]

There’s a good chance he will play in the centre. From what I’ve seen Amorim likes that player to step into midfield and bring the ball out, which Martinez is definitely most suited to. From a physical point of view, it’s not much different to playing in a back four.

Possibly. Could de Ligt not play that role? Every line up I’ve been seeing as had Yoro as RCB, De Ligt in the middle and Martinez on the left. Obviously injuries will play a part. Even Maguire will probably look a lot better in a 3 than a 2.

 

[Snow]

That doesn't look right at all. You seem to have got them from transfermarkt which I would have thought was accurate, but I don't see how it can be.

Most obviously, 36 games missed in 24/25? We've only played 18 matches, and if they are including national team matches then England have only played 6. Last season he missed 37 matches for us and another 7 for England, so I'm not sure where they got 50 from. Unless I'm missing something?

Looking at the site it's weirdly set up. Devilish made a mistake I think. Shaw is listed as injured 20 days with a calf injury and 16 with a knee injury this season so imagine those 16 games have been counted twice.

 

[McGrathsipan]

So do we think he’s going to play most games as a LCB rather than the LWB?

Genuinely I think this won't be an issue. He'll get injured again very soon

 

[Dan_F]

Possibly. Could de Ligt not play that role? Every line up I’ve been seeing as had Yoro as RCB, De Ligt in the middle and Martinez on the left. Obviously injuries will play a part. Even Maguire will probably look a lot better in a 3 than a 2.

I think that’s just the obvious place for him to fit on paper. If Amorim really does value the middle centre back as being the best passer, he can’t play there. He’s probably the least comfortable on the ball of our centre backs along with Lindelof?

 

[Rojofiam]

There’s a good chance he will play in the centre. From what I’ve seen Amorim likes that player to step into midfield and bring the ball out, which Martinez is definitely most suited to. From a physical point of view, it’s not much different to playing in a back four.

I seriously doubt Martínez will play CCB over De Ligt and Maguire.

 

[Dan_F]

I seriously doubt Martínez will play CCB over De Ligt and Maguire.

Okay. I’m only saying what I read in some tactical breakdowns, it’s not my opinion. If he really does prefer the central player to step into midfield and be the best passer of the three, it’s a huge compromise to play De Ligt there.

 

[Rojofiam]

Okay. I’m only saying what I read in some tactical breakdowns, it’s not my opinion. If he really does prefer the central player to step into midfield and be the best passer of the three, it’s a huge compromise to play De Ligt there.

The CCB also needs to do most of the organizing around them, needs to have good anticipation, needs to be able to step up and intercept passes aggressively, and put pressure on the opponent receiving the ball, be dominant in the air, etc.

Martínez is our best defender in possession, but when we don't have the ball, he's far from it, whereas Maguire and De Ligt are both tailor-made CCBs for a back 3 system...and they can also pass well, just not as well as Martínez.

If Shaw plays LCB, then Martínez might be on the bench. It's going to be interesting how Amorim solves this issue (finding a place for Martínez in the XI), because Martínez isn't a great wide CB either in my opinion, and Shaw might be the better fit there, because he's quicker, but Martínez is so good on the ball and at passing, that Amorim might try his best to find a place for Martínez in the starting XI, just because of this...however Shaw is probably the 2nd best passer and ball progressor we have in the defense, and he's also left footed, meaning he should be a real contender for the LCB role too.

It's also worth noting that it was Inácio at Sporting who was the best passer from their groups of CBs, and yet I think he mainly played LCB under Amorim, not CCB.

 

[Insanity]

So do we think he’s going to play most games as a LCB rather than the LWB?

Yeah, I think it's going to be as a LCB more often than not.

 

[Borys]

There is a chance he's better suited to LCB role than Martinez (in 343). I don't think we'll ever see it, as he is never fit anyway, but his attributes to drive the ball forward from deep would be fantastic in this team.

 

[Oscar Bonavena]

Outstanding player when fit but is nearly always injured, so what's the point. I don't think Amorim can have him in his plans for the next season and a half, because he's too unreliable (in terms of availability).

Let's face it, at his age and with his physique, the injury problems are not going to improve. Intuitively I hate seeing good players go but if any half decent offer came in for him, the smart decision would be to sell.

 

[Alemar]

There is a chance he's better suited to LCB role than Martinez (in 343). I don't think we'll ever see it, as he is never fit anyway, but his attributes to drive the ball forward from deep would be fantastic in this team.

But as long as he is fit, I think he will be playing an LCB over Martinez for the most part

 

[Borys]

But as long as he is fit, I think he will be playing an LCB over Martinez for the most part

I think they would rotate. Shaw would also be our best LWB so there's plenty of game time for him if he's fit. I don't see any conflict there.

 

[Alemar]

I think they would rotate. Shaw would also be our best LWB so there's plenty of game time for him if he's fit. I don't see any conflict there.

We can’t play him as LWB, otherwise he’ll get injured quickly.

 

[Sandikan]

So do we think he’s going to play most games as a LCB rather than the LWB?

Would seem a much better idea than expecting him to monster forward frequently. Although we do then have the choice of do we expect Maz or Dalot to do such a tough role on their wrong foot, or do we convert a winger?

Also, where does Martinez fit in? Logic would suggest you put your big physical less mobile centre back in the middle of the 3.

 

[Sandikan]

I'm not one to buy too much into all these conspiracies or suspicions about players being available, but you have to laugh if he is available immediately for the new manager after so long out.