[11101]

Blind is far far better than Shaw.

So is Darmian and even Young in the right setup.

His problem is clearly more than just fitness now, he has forgotten where he needs to be on the pitch. So many times he gets caught out of position or moving in the wrong direction. Fitness helps him recover faster but it doesn't address why he was there in the first place.

I almost wonder if a loan would be good for him. Let him get back into it away from the spotlight of this club. We expect to challenge for the league this year and he will cost us goals.

 

[Litch]

Good to see him back and maybe like Jones, it's worth having some patience as there is still a very good player in there that needs some confidence from a run of games.

 

[Kostov]

We have 2 players who can play left back and are better than Shaw, and one who is far better than Shaw.

For 3+ years here, Shaw has been largely injured, unfit and utter shit (bar those three matches in August 2015). Yet some people are going like he is a prodigy young player.

Young and Blind can player LB better than Shaw at this moment. But none of them is FAR FAR better than Shaw.
For 3+ years that he is here, he was injured and unlucky with the way things penned out, but he was never utter shit. Please provide an example where he was utter shit, since i fail to remember. He's 22 years old, yes he is a young player.

EDIT: My point is, i'm sure you can provide a game where he made mistakes, and i can accept that. Although I've never seen him play like ''Utter shit''. On the other hand i can find a lot of examples of Blind and Young having bad games. The fact is we don't have a single LB for which we can say is undisputed first choice and far far better than the other options. Luke Shaw i believe CAN be one, given time and a bit of luck.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Disappointing to see him looking heavyset after that photo of him over the summer looking much trimmer.

I didn’t think he was that bad last night. Some decent link-up play going forwards and the run he almost scored from you would never see from our other options at LB. Still, though, you’d want to see more from a player with so much to prove.

 

[Kostov]

Disappointing to see him looking heavyset after that photo of him over the summer looking much trimmer.

I didn’t think he was that bad last night. Some decent link-up play going forwards and the run he almost scored from you would never see from our other options at LB. Still, though, you’d want to see more from a player with so much to prove.

If i remember correctly that wasn't even offside?

I agree with you that he has a lot more to prove. Lets hope he does for the good of this team.

 

[Oneunited26]

If he can get over his troubles, regain that fitness and form on why we bought him, he maybe one of the most crucial pieces in the puzzle for this team, very happy he got some minutes on the clock

 

[Sepukku]

Last night I've seen him at one point going towards the middle to Herrera (who had the ball) and almost colliding with him, while there was a big chunk of space on the left wing. If we didn't pay 30 million from him i don't think he'd get another game for the first team. He just adds nothing.

 

[SirAF]

Last night I've seen him at one point going towards the middle to Herrera (who had the ball) and almost colliding with him, while there was a big chunk of space on the left wing. If we didn't pay 30 million from him i don't think he'd get another game for the first team. He just adds nothing.

Yeah, I noticed that too. Was well annoyed.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I wouldn't have described him as being "lean" last night... nor would I describe him as being "good" either.

Really hope he sorts it out/turns it around though.

 

[mad1max954]

I wouldn't normally listen to anything Phil Neville says (properly terrible pundit) but I think he was spot on when it comes to shaw. If you come on at OT after so long out (again) surely you would be dying to prove yourself and at least put in some real effort to make runs in behind or put pressure on. I know the game was won and it almost looked like a pre season runaround but from Shaw's perspective, honestly he couldn't of looked more disinterested. I mean what a terrible attitude!?

I admit I have only seen him live a couple of times (not last night) but when I have, iv thought his positional sense was really off, like he didn't know where to be. Last night was the same too.

He had one season when he looked class (before his injury) but has pretty much been a non entity since. He has the rest of the season to prove himself but at this point I'd defo sell and include a sell on fee.

Lindelof has looked shaky but at least he has looked arsed! Really don't get how people are supporting shaw still.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Thought he made some good off the ball runs but he's some way off the level we need him to be right now.

 

[Kostov]

Lindelof has looked shaky but at least he has looked arsed! Really don't get how people are supporting shaw still.

What do you mean by that? Even if someone agrees with the other part of your post. Why wouldn't a United fan support its own player?

And it's not just that, we really lack a quality LB, from all the options we have Shaw is the only player who has shown that can develop in a quality LB for a club like Manchester United. Why wouldn't a Manchester United fan want the best for our team? Blind, Young and Darmian are squad players and we shouldn't have gone in this season with any of them as first choice. I believed Jose shared the same opinion and wants to give Shaw a proper final chance. If that isn't the case why the hell didn't we buy a LB instead of Lindelof?

 

[Turnip]

Can't believe Shaw's lack of trying last night, after he's spent so long saying he's going to work hard and take his chances. Was looking forward to seeing him in action again, and we didn't really get any action from him at all. I don't know if he's still not 100% fit, if he was instructed to not bomb forward or what (and why he kept wandering inwards for no reason was beyond me), but it was like he'd gone out for a sunday stroll and people kept annoyingly kicking a ball to him. Shawly he should have been bombing in behind the defense and getting crosses in at every opportunity (of which there were plenty, he just opted for a useless, lazy side-ways or backwards pass instead every single time), showing Jose he has what we've been lacking so badly on the left. It wasn't like he had a lot of defending to do with 3 at the back and even when he did have to do it he did it half-heartedly and mostly screwed it up. I'm really disappointed, I was a big fan and really wanted to see him make a come-back, but feel like he's given up now.

Still want to see him come good, he so clearly had excellent potential, but something's just not quite right in his head now.

 

[MThomas]

I don't fully understand the negativity towards Shaw, it's almost like some actually want him to fail because they dislike him.

He's been out for ages, ideally he'll be told to keep things simple, that it's not about going for a first team place for the weekend but getting back to match fitness and avoiding setbacks.

 

[mad1max954]

What do you mean by that? Even if someone agrees with the other part of your post. Why wouldn't a United fan support its own player?

I dont think Lingard is United quality either so are you saying that im somehow a bad supporter because of it? I am a United fan first and foremost and like everyone else I have opinions on players. Ironically like you do in RE to Young, Darmian.

In Shaw's case specifically though, what I meant was that a lot of people do seem to think that he is good enough, that he has just been unlucky, that he will be a first choice LB for the next 5 years. If you look at his fitness, his apps or looked at his attitude last night I just do not get why anyone would think that this is a guy worth pursing.

Blind is better than Shaw, but I agree isnt a long term solution at LB.

I actually think that Jose did want a new LB, but was hamstrung because he couldn't sell Shaw (due to injury) and couldn't get anyone in after already spending big money elsewhere - especially with the fees people ended up paying.

In Lindelof's case, I think that's the end of Smalling personally - Smalling has a stay of execution simply because we are waiting for Rojo to recover from injury - I would'nt be surprised if his is gone in Jan.

 

[Alvaro Maestre]

45 minutes into his first senior game back since April due to injury.

"That's enough time, he should be good by now. Sick of these excuses!"

So you think the injury shouldn't affect him at all in his first senior appearance since his last long-term injury because you're bored of the fact he's often injured? Does recovery work like that?

Well, Young was also in crutches at the end of last season , and he came way more better than Shaw that he`s now even first choice. Mou said last season that it is something more related to the mentality of the player, that affects also his fitness.

If he does not improve this season, he should be sold.

 

[Kostov]

I dont think Lingard is United quality either so are you saying that im somehow a bad supporter because of it? I am a United fan first and foremost and like everyone else I have opinions on players. Ironically like you do in RE to Young, Darmian.

There is a difference between rating/having an opinion about a player and supporting him. I don't rate Lingard and Darmian because i've seen them countless of times showing that they are not of the required quality. But i will always support a United player and want him to do well, for the sake of the team if nothing else. Especially a young lad like Shaw, who I rate as a very good talent.

In Shaw's case specifically though, what I meant was that a lot of people do seem to think that he is good enough, that he has just been unlucky, that he will be a first choice LB for the next 5 years. If you look at his fitness, his apps or looked at his attitude last night I just do not get why anyone would think that this is a guy worth pursing.

I do not think that Shaw at present time and form is good enough, he has been unlucky. You don't get your leg snapped in two pieces because you've been lucky. He had another one since April and didn't have a proper pre-season. If i look at his appearance as you say, i can see he is a bulky lad, and this discussion has been done to death and won't get into it again. But i've seen Shaw last night and he is much faster and stronger than Darmian or Blind for example. That sprint for example where he went through on goal was a good example, Blind or Darman would have never done that. So unless you are his dietitian or his girlfriend, I think physically he can hold his own.
The likes of Darmian and Blind will never be of the required quality to be first choice, that's why I think Shaw's talent is worth pursuing. He CAN be a first choice LB, because he has shown undoubted talent.

I actually think that Jose did want a new LB, but was hamstrung because he couldn't sell Shaw (due to injury) and couldn't get anyone in after already spending big money elsewhere - especially with the fees people ended up paying.

If Jose did want a LB he should have bough one and be done with it, not go and spend 40m on a CB that needs time adapting while we have a talent like Tuanzebe playing u-23 football. No excuses really, full-backs are essential in todays game, and we have Young as the first choice LB in the club currently. I'm not having a go at Young, I like his commitment but we need better.

In Lindelof's case, I think that's the end of Smalling personally - Smalling has a stay of execution simply because we are waiting for Rojo to recover from injury - I would'nt be surprised if his is gone in Jan.

Don't hold your breath on that one. Smalling should be kept until the end of the season. We are yet to see how Rojo recovers from a very serious injury and Lindelof will need time to adapt if he eventually does, that is.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Very disappointed with him last night. Long term injury can't be excuse for his game. He played like division 2 player. No desire, no pace, weak positioning, bad passing. And it was Burton. I was against buying left back because i thought shaw will become great again like he was before leg break but i am losing faith in that.
And his fitness? Wtf is that? He looks fat. 5-6kg too much at least .

 

[Sarni]

I still cannot believe how he regressed since his form before that injury against PSV, it really ruined his career somewhat (even more than the legendary two-week break from football which apparently turned Possebon from being world class into 4th division player). He looked like a proper top class left back at the beginning of 2015-16 and was probably our best player that month.

 

[AlexUTD]

Shaw has just returned from injury, lacking match fitness. Give him a break! He is class and i really hope he avoids anymore injuries and shines like he did before that horrific leg injury.

With him maurauding on the left and Valencia right we will be even more deadly counter-attacking and 3-5-2 will be more viable against big teams that play that way.

Jose said that its needed against teams who play 3-5-2.

 

[Tapori]

Good to see him back and maybe like Jones, it's worth having some patience as there is still a very good player in there that needs some confidence from a run of games.

This.
If Shaw is given a run when fully fit and he hasn't learned the tactical side that Mourinho wants him to develop, then of course he can leave and he'll do well in a different team. We saw his talent before the leg-break and what he offers before the April injury.

But this insane "now now now," culture must be a largely an age thing amongst our supporters. Unless you're Alves, Lahm or Marcelo within few games coming back from injury then oh no, you're a terrible player and should be sold etc

Same thing with Jonesy; "Oh he's terrible booh hoo I want a 50m defender"
Some of you lot would have had a nervous breakdown when Quinton Fortune, Alan Smith, John O'Shea played.

I see it in the insane comments regarding Lingard too. Lads, pipe down, we've always generally helped players back after a long injury; if they're not wanted or needed or performing in our setup then we let them go; We don't make some weird snap judgement on one random game.

 

[Terminator]

Incredibly negative thread. He does look like a shadow of the player he was pre-injury but I'm confident he will improve if given enough time. I have complete trust in his abilities and I just hope he gets it together mentally and stays injury free.

 

[marlowe78]

I thought he was alright. I'm not trying to taking a shot at Jose but I don't think he did Shaw any favors by switching to 3 CBs. I've always thought wingbacks need to be in peak physical shape because of what that role calls for.

 

[RDCR07]

Well, Young was also in crutches at the end of last season , and he came way more better than Shaw that he`s now even first choice. Mou said last season that it is something more related to the mentality of the player, that affects also his fitness.

If he does not improve this season, he should be sold.

Yes because being on crutches and having a double break in one of your legs is the same thing?

 

[mad1max954]

There is a difference between rating/having an opinion about a player and supporting him. I don't rate Lingard and Darmian because i've seen them countless of times showing that they are not of the required quality. But i will always support a United player and want him to do well, for the sake of the team if nothing else. Especially a young lad like Shaw, who I rate as a very good talent.

You are arguing semantics -rate / supporting. Just because I have criticised him doesn't mean that I want him to fail .

But i've seen Shaw last night and he is much faster and stronger than Darmian or Blind for example. That sprint for example where he went through on goal was a good example, Blind or Darman would have never done that. So unless you are his dietitian or his girlfriend, I think physically he can hold his own.
The likes of Darmian and Blind will never be of the required quality to be first choice, that's why I think Shaw's talent is worth pursuing. He CAN be a first choice LB, because he has shown undoubted talent.

Funny because I just saw someone who was overweight, disinterested and positionally terrible. He might have shown 'glimpses' of what he can do but he hasnt been effective since before his injury. Talent alone isnt enough. Both Jose and LVG have questioned this.

If Jose did want a LB he should have bough one and be done with it, not go and spend 40m on a CB that needs time adapting while we have a talent like Tuanzebe playing u-23 football. No excuses really, full-backs are essential in todays game, and we have Young as the first choice LB in the club currently. I'm not having a go at Young, I like his commitment but we need better.

Your ignoring what I said about money. Jose said that he wants the option of 3 at the back previously which explains Lindelof acquisition too. I maintain that I think Smalling will be sold too, if not in January than next summer.

 

[Sepukku]

Incredibly negative thread. He does look like a shadow of the player he was pre-injury but I'm confident he will improve if given enough time. I have complete trust in his abilities and I just hope he gets it together mentally and stays injury free.

Some negativity after 3 years of positivity never hurt nobody don't you think?

 

[Andycoleno9]

Incredibly negative thread. He does look like a shadow of the player he was pre-injury but I'm confident he will improve if given enough time. I have complete trust in his abilities and I just hope he gets it together mentally and stays injury free.

Well shaw had support here like maybe no other player. In 3 years only few people talked about his flaws, bad form, his mistakes during games; it was always he is young, he is future, etc...
But people slightly losing faith that he will be our first choice left back. It is not negative thing to say. We still have some hopes but reality is showing us that he is far from being that player. In his 3 years here he had only one decent run. Under lvg at the start of his second season. After that injury all went downhill for shaw. I think that this is his win or bust season . Either he will prove himself as our no1 left back or he will be sold( and we will buy some other left back). It is harsh but it is reality in life of professional football player. Especially on this level.

 

[Litch]

This.
If Shaw is given a run when fully fit and he hasn't learned the tactical side that Mourinho wants him to develop, then of course he can leave and he'll do well in a different team. We saw his talent before the leg-break and what he offers before the April injury.

But this insane "now now now," culture must be a largely an age thing amongst our supporters. Unless you're Alves, Lahm or Marcelo within few games coming back from injury then oh no, you're a terrible player and should be sold etc

Same thing with Jonesy; "Oh he's terrible booh hoo I want a 50m defender"
Some of you lot would have had a nervous breakdown when Quinton Fortune, Alan Smith, John O'Shea played.

I see it in the insane comments regarding Lingard too. Lads, pipe down, we've always generally helped players back after a long injury; if they're not wanted or needed or performing in our setup then we let them go; We don't make some weird snap judgement on one random game.

Absolutely, and then it will be the same people when he finds his form somewhere else that will be posting the club should have been more patient. I also agree that in this PlayStation age, some people think finding your game after a long injury is like picking up a joypad they've just dropped. The benefits of being patience outway the costs to replace a fully fit firing Shaw. That player would be now worth more than the 30m we paid for him to replace....

 

[Litch]

Well shaw had support here like maybe no other player. In 3 years only few people talked about his flaws, bad form, his mistakes during games; it was always he is young, he is future, etc...
But people slightly losing faith that he will be our first choice left back. It is not negative thing to say. We still have some hopes but reality is showing us that he is far from being that player. In his 3 years here he had only one decent run. Under lvg at the start of his second season. After that injury all went downhill for shaw. I think that this is his win or bust season . Either he will prove himself as our no1 left back or he will be sold( and we will buy some other left back). It is harsh but it is reality in life of professional football player. Especially on this level.

All I'm going to say is Phil Jones.....

 

[Natener]

I don't think United fans, most of us at least, have an agenda against Shaw and want to see him fail. We just hope to see him try harder before even getting into the intelligence aspect Mourinho is expecting out of him. His Burton runout looked a little labored and aimless. That's why it's disappointing for some of us.

 

[golden_blunder]

Incredibly negative thread. He does look like a shadow of the player he was pre-injury but I'm confident he will improve if given enough time. I have complete trust in his abilities and I just hope he gets it together mentally and stays injury free.

Does he have time and opportunity? He has to start taking his chances and stay fit, otherwise I don't doubt we will purchase a new lb next summer if not in January. Shame we didn't go for Mendy

 

[Tapori]

Absolutely, and then it will be the same people when he finds his form somewhere else that will be posting the club should have been more patient. I also agree that in this PlayStation age, some people think finding your game after a long injury is like picking up a joypad they've just dropped. The benefits of being patience outway the costs to replace a fully fit firing Shaw. That player would be now worth more than the 30m we paid for him to replace....

Why no flashing form arrows?

 

[Litch]

Why no flashing form arrows?

Don't get you?

 

[Smores]

Give him some games until January then send him out on loan if he's not improved.

I think a lot of the issue is that he because he was so well regarded people/the media expect him to jump straight in to being a regular again. There's no reason he can't just me an option rotated in.

 

[Tapori]

Don't get you?

Playstation generation would rather each player had one of these to tell them about a player - this ignoring each player's context:
The arrows would flash when a player was in a development phase of his career.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqpIg8kW8AAt4-1.jpg

 

[Litch]

Playstation generation would rather each player had one of these to tell them about a player - this ignoring each player's context:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqpIg8kW8AAt4-1.jpg

Clearly I'm not of that generation lol......

 

[Tapori]

Clearly I'm not of that generation lol......

Classic Fergie.

 

[Minimalist]

Blind is far far better than Shaw.

It's remarkable how lacking in objectivity people are due to their dislike of Blind.

 

[Kostov]

You are arguing semantics -rate / supporting. Just because I have criticised him doesn't mean that I want him to fail .

It's no arguing semantics, you questioned why some people supported one of our young players, while having a tough time with injuries. Even though English is not my first language, I can't read your mind.

Funny because I just saw someone who was overweight, disinterested and positionally terrible. He might have shown 'glimpses' of what he can do but he hasnt been effective since before his injury. Talent alone isnt enough. Both Jose and LVG have questioned this.

You persist with that overweight and unfit phrase, i will say it again, even if that is true, physically he's inferior to all our LBs. Darmian and Blind i'm sure you would say are much fitter, yet they are not even close to Shaw's physical attributes. He's just back from an injury, and some players take longer than 45 minutes to get into match rhythm, you can't write off a player based on a mixed performance after he's been out since April. Talent alone is not enough, nobody claimed otherwise.

Your ignoring what I said about money. Jose said that he wants the option of 3 at the back previously which explains Lindelof acquisition too. I maintain that I think Smalling will be sold too, if not in January than next summer.

I'm not ignoring anything, he bought a CB for 40m when we have 4 senior CB and Tuanzebe, while our only LB is named Luke Shaw. With Shaw he had 1 year to work with, he should know by now if he's trust worthy fitness wise, mental wise or whatever other problem there is. If all that you are saying is true and they still ignored the problem with the LB position, and went into the new season with a RB playing LB(Darmian), Blind and a winger (Young) , that is bad planning.

I trust Jose's judgement and most often agree with what he's doing. But that won't stop me from criticizing him if I deem he made a bad decision. I really don't care what he planned on doing, and nothing stops him playing 3 at the back, until now he hasn't tried it.

 

[JG3001]

Fair few posters have given up on him prior to this game tbf, all this game has done is further justify their reasoning. Seemingly always injured, when he's not he looks unfit and off the pace. Has had more than enough time at the club to establish himself. He'll get the rest of this season, mainly because we don't really have another proper LB and it's obvious Jose put some faith in him going into the season (Evident by us not signing another LB). I don't see him turning it around though tbh.

Beginning to remind me of Anderson.

Unfortunately it does seem to be exactly that, unfulfilled potential, the weight/fitness issue and injuries remind me of Anderson as well.

Surely all footballers have nutritionists and PTs, for when they play and for when they're on the sidelines. How can you pile it on every time?