[JK-27]

We could go on about this again and again but José absolutely did not want to sell Lukaku or KdB.

That's nonsense @Dr. StrangeHate, Barca lost Thiago, United lost Pogba. I could go on and on.

Sometimes players want too much too soon and aren't prepared to wait. When both of those players left Chelsea, there were better players playing ahead of them.

Didn't want to sell them, but also didn't want to play them. So what do you want them to do, spend their career on the bench? Jose publicly stated at the time:

“With De Bruyne, if you have a player knocking on your door and crying every day he wants to leave, you have to make a decision,” declared Mourinho. “He was not ready to compete. He was an upset kid, his training very bad.”

KDB has publicly stated that Jose kept saying that his stats weren't good, but given KDB wasn't playing any games, how could he possibly get good stats?
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...er-city-didnt-give-me-the-chane-a8075671.html

KDB then asked for public training sessions to prove Jose was lying when he said KDB wasn't putting in effort in training: http://www.skysports.com/football/n...chelsea-training-to-prove-jose-mourinho-wrong

"It is true that he said in the press that I wasn't doing what was needed in training," De Bruyne told France Football. "It was easy to say that because there was no-one to check it - the training sessions were closed to the public. But everyone knows I am not like that.
I never let anyone put me down. I say what I have to say, with respect of course. But at that moment, I couldn't do anything because he would have said I was lying and afterwards he would have used it. Did I ask for training to be done in public? I said it, yes, but not to him personally."

You look at how Jose treated KDB, and you can't help but think this is history repeating itself with Shaw.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Didn't want to sell them, but also didn't want to play them. So what do you want them to do, spend their career on the bench? Jose publicly stated at the time.

Was is not exactly the same with SAF and Pogba @JK-27?

Sometimes managers will not play them just to prove a point that you don't cave in to youngsters demands. SAF didn't think Pogba was ready, Pogba did. Mou didn't think KdB was ready, KdB did.

History aint repeating itself with Shaw, because Shaw has been slagged off by every single manager he's worked with and unlike KdB he can't even keep himself in fecking shape. He's an absolute mess and those kind of players don't ever make it to the very very top.

 

[red_devil83]

Find me a manager who has been in the game as long as Mou and hasn't made a few bad calls. If he had sold them and the not been successful there might be a case there but he's always won major trophies. Hypothetically, if he had sold Messi, Ronaldo and Neymar but won multiple Domestic and European titles would that be a bad call?

Of course not but that's entirely unrealistic anyway. What he did do was misuse KDB and Salah who went on to become world class. Would they ever have flourished under Mourinho's restrictive way of playing? Probably not. So two-fold is the problem.

 

[roonster09]

Was is not exactly the same with SAF and Pogba @JK-27?

Sometimes managers will not play them just to prove a point that you don't cave in. SAF didn't think Pogba was ready, Pogba did. Mou didn't think KdB was ready, KdB did.

There is a difference though. Pogba never played professional football so he was unknown at highest level and he was just 17 or 18.

KbB was 22-24, played 20 times for Belgium and had very good season for Bremen.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

There is a difference though. Pogba never played professional football so he was unknown at highest level and he was just 17 or 18.

KbB was 22-24, played 20 times for Belgium and had very good season for Bremen.

But who was ahead of KdB in the Chelsea side? And how many caps did he have?

 

[roonster09]

But who was ahead of KdB in the Chelsea side? And how many caps did he have?

That's different question. My point was it wasn't same as Pogba situation.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

That's different question. My point was it wasn't same as Pogba situation.

It was a young player desperate for game time that his manager felt he didn't quite deserve at the time because there were better players ahead of him. Oscar was superb then in fairness, was also young and had played more for Brazil than KbB had for Belgium.

And Mourinho didn't want to sell KbD, just as SAF didn't wanna lose Pogba. They both just wanted to player to show more patience.

 

[roonster09]

It was a young player desperate for game time that his manager felt he didn't quite deserve at the time because there were better players ahead of him. Oscar was superb then in fairness, was also young and had played more for Brazil than KbB had for Belgium.

And Mourinho didn't want to sell KbD, just as SAF didn't wanna lose Pogba. They both just wanted to player to show more patience.

This is like saying Jose and Pulis are same as they play defensive football when they are worlds apart.

 

[Varun]

Guys, keep this about Shaw and his performances.

 

[JK-27]

Was is not exactly the same with SAF and Pogba @JK-27?

Sometimes managers will not play them just to prove a point that you don't cave in to youngsters demands. SAF didn't think Pogba was ready, Pogba did. Mou didn't think KdB was ready, KdB did.

History aint repeating itself with Shaw, because Shaw has been slagged off by every single manager he's worked with and unlike KdB he can't even keep himself in fecking shape. He's an absolute mess and those kind of players don't ever make it to the very very top.

Not the same situation. SAF has publicly stated that Pogba left because he was demanding a ridiculous new contract for a young player who hadn't played regularly in the first team (or any first team). And SAF blames his agent (Raiola) for this.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/sir-alex-ferguson-reveals-paul-6490775

Pogba may claim it's because he wanted first team football but the fact remains we did offer him a very good contract for a 19 year old and he turned it down (on the advice of Raiola who could get him more money at Juventus as well as more playing time).

This is completely different to Shaw, who before joining was a regular first team player for Southampton, and had won caps for England. In addition, Shaw is not currently at the end of his contract, or demanding more money, so it's not the same situation at all. KDB was also not out of contract at the time with Chelsea.

In January this year Jose was praising Shaw and his attitude and work ethic and that he would get a new contract. The only people currently saying he is out of shape are people on this board. Jose has not said that lately, he's complained about his tactical awareness, not his fitness.

If Shaw is unfit Jose can pick Blind and Darmian who have both played LB previously, but he doesn't. So an unfit and tactically naive Shaw is still better than a fit Blind or Darmian? And unfit and tactically naive Shaw still gets to start ahead of Young? None of that makes any sense. So if its not his fitness that's the problem then something else is going on.

As far as I can tell Shaw has been consistent in his approach this year, and when he's played he's played OK (and better than OK in some matches, e.g. MOTM performances against CSKA Moscow & Bournemouth). In contrast, Jose has been all over the place in his criticising and praising Shaw in equal measure. So to me it seems Jose is the problem and not Shaw.

 

[VP89]

@JK-27 cheers for that it's insightful and equally worrying..

 

[Lawman]

Times up hope he does himself justice somewhere else as he could have been special. We can’t wait for ever his ship has sailed here for me.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Of course not but that's entirely unrealistic anyway. What he did do was misuse KDB and Salah who went on to become world class. Would they ever have flourished under Mourinho's restrictive way of playing? Probably not. So two-fold is the problem.

Yh this is the issue (and why we mostly don't like this style of football) because I think if you put KDB into Spurs or Liverpool's lineup he'd operate at the same v high level but put him in our setup and I think he'd really struggle.

Which players do I get exited about watching in our current lineup - Rashford (doesn't get amazing game time), Martial (same), Mata (struggles in our system IMO), Sanchez (or so I thought until he arrived and realized he's a defensive winger). This is the price of success under Mou.

 

[el3mel]

Yea but all those mistakes are ridiculously bad. And at least KDB and Salah went the same way as Shaw is going. Mourinho doesn't give them any game time. Slags them off constantly then sells them. They then go on to be world beaters.

If Shaw does leaves, he will more likely end at Schneiderlin's level than at KDB's.

 

[FujiVice]

Ok, kicked and it landed on his head, same thing.

No, one is an accident. The other isnt. He didnt try and kick it off anyone.

 

[Devil may care]

I've thought for a while now that Shaw wouldn't make it here, I don't think he has the personality for the spotlight, but Mourinho seems to have a personal issue with the guy, like he revels in the chance to dig him out, maybe the board forced Mourinho to persevere with Shaw this season instead of buying an LB and he resents him for it.

 

[Minimalist]

Assuming he leaves, who or what signing is more annoying: Shaw or Anderson?

 

[SATA]

I read somewhere sometime ago that he has some mates staying over at his place which i think could be a bad influence on him and his football career. Could be partying and drinking every night with his mates hence the going out of shape body. It's a real pity though, he can be a very good footballer if he sets his mind on it

 

[Kapardin]

Will be very interesting to hear Shaw speak about Jose after he leaves. Won't sound pretty for sure.

 

[soap]

Young flaps when the opposition pressure him and has terrible decision making in his own defesive third of the pitch

Yup, spot on. I said exactly the same in the Young thread. I can understand playing Young over Shaw at the moment, but forcing Shaw out and extending Young's contract? I don't get that.

 

[iluvoursolskjær]

Not the same situation. SAF has publicly stated that Pogba left because he was demanding a ridiculous new contract for a young player who hadn't played regularly in the first team (or any first team). And SAF blames his agent (Raiola) for this.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/sir-alex-ferguson-reveals-paul-6490775

Pogba may claim it's because he wanted first team football but the fact remains we did offer him a very good contract for a 19 year old and he turned it down (on the advice of Raiola who could get him more money at Juventus as well as more playing time).

This is completely different to Shaw, who before joining was a regular first team player for Southampton, and had won caps for England. In addition, Shaw is not currently at the end of his contract, or demanding more money, so it's not the same situation at all. KDB was also not out of contract at the time with Chelsea.

In January this year Jose was praising Shaw and his attitude and work ethic and that he would get a new contract. The only people currently saying he is out of shape are people on this board. Jose has not said that lately, he's complained about his tactical awareness, not his fitness.

If Shaw is unfit Jose can pick Blind and Darmian who have both played LB previously, but he doesn't. So an unfit and tactically naive Shaw is still better than a fit Blind or Darmian? And unfit and tactically naive Shaw still gets to start ahead of Young? None of that makes any sense. So if its not his fitness that's the problem then something else is going on.

As far as I can tell Shaw has been consistent in his approach this year, and when he's played he's played OK (and better than OK in some matches, e.g. MOTM performances against CSKA Moscow & Bournemouth). In contrast, Jose has been all over the place in his criticising and praising Shaw in equal measure. So to me it seems Jose is the problem and not Shaw.

Great post. I had even given up on Shaw at one point and thought he's pretty much done since the injury, but has shown some promise since via his limited appearances - enough for me to backtrack on that a bit. Mourinho is being a bit of an arse tbh and i thought Scholes' comments hit the nail on the head, he just doesn't like some players (look at Martial) and holds them to totally different standards while his soldier Fellaini (granted he's had some decent performances earlier in the season) can stroll around at 2mps bumping in to people, or, 'being a nuisance' and offering feckal else other than chesting down route-one balls.

 

[Oldyella]

Assuming he leaves, who or what signing is more annoying: Shaw or Anderson?

Tough one. Probably Anderson, as he almost made it to a testimonial.

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

Shaw has been a disaster since he signed for us. He's not been very good at all. But as is the case with all young players, there will be a section of fans who over hype them forever.

This sums Shaw's entire career at United up.

Shame because he was actually very very good as a teenager with Southampton.

 

[prath92]

Not the same situation. SAF has publicly stated that Pogba left because he was demanding a ridiculous new contract for a young player who hadn't played regularly in the first team (or any first team). And SAF blames his agent (Raiola) for this.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/sir-alex-ferguson-reveals-paul-6490775

Pogba may claim it's because he wanted first team football but the fact remains we did offer him a very good contract for a 19 year old and he turned it down (on the advice of Raiola who could get him more money at Juventus as well as more playing time).

This is completely different to Shaw, who before joining was a regular first team player for Southampton, and had won caps for England. In addition, Shaw is not currently at the end of his contract, or demanding more money, so it's not the same situation at all. KDB was also not out of contract at the time with Chelsea.

In January this year Jose was praising Shaw and his attitude and work ethic and that he would get a new contract. The only people currently saying he is out of shape are people on this board. Jose has not said that lately, he's complained about his tactical awareness, not his fitness.

If Shaw is unfit Jose can pick Blind and Darmian who have both played LB previously, but he doesn't. So an unfit and tactically naive Shaw is still better than a fit Blind or Darmian? And unfit and tactically naive Shaw still gets to start ahead of Young? None of that makes any sense. So if its not his fitness that's the problem then something else is going on.

As far as I can tell Shaw has been consistent in his approach this year, and when he's played he's played OK (and better than OK in some matches, e.g. MOTM performances against CSKA Moscow & Bournemouth). In contrast, Jose has been all over the place in his criticising and praising Shaw in equal measure. So to me it seems Jose is the problem and not Shaw.

He doesn’t. He started as a back up option. Young is starter and rightly so. Shaw has never had the end product a full back needs. Whereas young seems to have goals and assists. It’s not a surprise he start

As for the game, it’s quite clearly shaw’s fault. Nobody can deny shaw was bad in the last game. He doesn’t get the leeway Young gets because he has been more or less poor over the past two years (other than the 5 games or so earlier this year) whereas Young has performed well most of this season and that gets him a bit of credit.

 

[roseguy64]

He doesn’t. He started as a back up option. Young is starter and rightly so. Shaw has never had the end product a full back needs. Whereas young seems to have goals and assists. It’s not a surprise he start

As for the game, it’s quite clearly shaw’s fault. Nobody can deny shaw was bad in the last game. He doesn’t get the leeway Young gets because he has been more or less poor over the past two years (other than the 5 games or so earlier this year) whereas Young has performed well most of this season and that gets him a bit of credit.

Obviously, Young has been a winger for most of his career. He should be better in getting end product.

I can. Shaw wasn't bad. He wasn't outstanding either. Similar performance to what Young did except I think Brighton created more chances from Young's side while he was on.

 

[AlwaysRed66]

Probably weighing up his options in the summer, is really saying to see if Mourinho is still here next season, if he hasn't completely lost the dressing room by then.

 

[PepsiCola]

Loan him out for the season.

Seriously doubt Mourinho will be here past next season. A loan could be good for the lad.

 

[red_devil83]

If Shaw does leaves, he will more likely end at Schneiderlin's level than at KDB's.

I think it would entirely depend on who he's managed by. I believe certain coaches would have him flying.

 

[el3mel]

I think it would entirely depend on who he's managed by. I believe certain coaches would have him flying.

We'll see but I haven't seen much to suggest otherwise.

 

[Zoo]

This is interesting. We should have sold him last summer.

 

[el3mel]

This is interesting. We should have sold him last summer.

Not interested in listening. Can you say what he's saying ? The fitness issues stuff or something new ?

 

[haram]

This is interesting. We should have sold him last summer.

If he cant do it in every training session then he shouldn't be playing for Man United. This is the sort of shit that needs to end.

 

[AR87]

Didn't interested in listening. Can you say what he's saying ? The fitness issues stuff or something new ?

Basically said that Luke isn't the type of player to go 100% in training every day and that he often needs an arm around the shoulder followed by a kick up the arse to get in gear. This is essentially what Jose has attempted doing with him.

 

[AndyJ1985]

Assuming he leaves, who or what signing is more annoying: Shaw or Anderson?

Anderson. It was embarrassing seeing that waster still hanging around the club years after it had become clear he wasn't going to make it. He was more of a mascot/jester than a football player.

 

[el3mel]

Basically said that Luke isn't the type of player to go 100% in training every day and that he often needs an arm around the shoulder followed by a kick up the arse to get in gear. This is essentially what Jose has attempted doing with him.

Oh,oh, and this comes from a Southampton academy director ? That actually sums it up. His mentality isn't right.

 

[CA1]

How people can defend Luke Shaw is beyond me.

People pay a lot of money to watch United and struggle to go and support. You turn up and a Manchester United footballer is consistenly overweight. It's beyond belief.

It's not his natural body shape. I've seen him look slim at times in his career and then a couple of months later he's ballooned again.

Get him out of the club. Tonight wouldn't be too soon. Why he wasn't sold in the summer is a mystery.

 

[AR87]

Oh,oh, and this comes from a Southampton academy director ? That actually sums it up. His mentality isn't right.

Yeah, it's not a great quote and is another one which paints a picture of Shaw as somebody who's simply not mature or determined enough to cut it at a top club at this stage of his career. I understand Jose can be a prick, but he wanted to buy Shaw at Chelsea and also started him as his LB in his first competitive matches as United manager.

It's clear to me his issues with Shaw aren't about some weird and arbitrary personal vendetta.

 

[el3mel]

Yeah, it's not a great quote and is another one which paints a picture of Shaw as somebody who's simply not mature or determined enough to cut it at a top club at this stage of his career. I understand Jose can be a prick, but he wanted to buy Shaw at Chelsea and also started him as his LB in his first competitive matches as United manager.

It's clear to me his issues with Shaw aren't about some weird and arbitrary personal vendetta.

This quote hurts more than any previous one from any managers because it comes directly from one of Southampton academy directors that knows Shaw more than anyone else, and he has no reasons to come and say that unless it's right.

I don't hate Shaw, but it's very frustrating when we -fans- wanted him to succeed here more than he himself wanted.

 

[Ban]

Maybe he still hasn't got rid of his entourage.

 

[#07]