[breakout67]

I like how Ashley Young's time this season is completely warped because some have a hard-on for Shaw.

Everyone slags off Young because he's not a natural left back, yet he has put in some monstrous performances there. If Shaw was putting in match winning performances like Watford, or very good defensive performances like Liverpool, I would want him over Young. But the reality is that Shaw gets praised like mad for doing basic things, while Young gets no credit for doing extraordinary things.

 

[spiriticon]

Here are the previous managers opinions on the attitude of Luke Shaw:

Roy Hodgson:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...-Luke-Shaw-over-his-fitness-at-World-Cup.html

LvG:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/28805181

Pochettino

http://metro.co.uk/2017/10/31/luke-...thampton-reveals-mauricio-pochettino-7042052/


And of course, we don't need to mention what Jose thinks of him.

Luke Shaw doesn't need a 'arm around a shoulder', he needs a fully fledged sports psychologist.

Ravel Morrison Mk II.

 

[Jig1234]

Our players have always been "stunned" or "shocked" or "flabbergasted" a lot over 3 years. Poor darlings.

In any case, I think this is leaked by Shaw's people, just as the Beeb article was. Probably someone like Smalling or Young or Carrick put an arm around Shaw and consoled him, which was then spun into a story of "they are all stunned".

Mourinho wants a better LB and thinks the board won't sanction one until they feel Shaw has no potential. Explains the treatment. Shaw is also within his rights to defend himself by such leaks, ofc.

I look forward to two actual FBs next season after all this trouble.

I said we've needed new RB/LB last year. But I don't think Mourinho will sign anyone. Young and Valencia will still be starting next season. Both are mediocre. Shaw should be allowed to leave. Mourinho has never liked him since day one. Mourinho once said in an interview that when I find a player I don't like, that feeling doesn't go away. If he does not trust you, I don't think you will ever win him over.

Shaw was not that bad vs Brighton. He helped set up the first goal. He didn't deserve to subbed off.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Like everyone else we’ve sold over the last few years.

Definitely, Schneiderlinn and Welbeck have been ripping up the league! Mourinho though doesn't have a great track record when it comes to selling players however.

 

[Oldyella]

Here are the previous managers opinions on the attitude of Luke Shaw:

Roy Hodgson:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...-Luke-Shaw-over-his-fitness-at-World-Cup.html

LvG:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/28805181

Pochettino

http://metro.co.uk/2017/10/31/luke-shaws-attitude-and-work-rate-held-him-back-at-southampton-reveals-mauricio-pochettino-7042052/


And of course, we don't need to mention what Jose thinks of him.

Luke Shaw doesn't need a 'arm around a shoulder', he needs a fully fledged sports psychologist.

Ravel Morrison Mk II.

Hardly think a bad attitude to training at times is the equivalent of being involved with gang activity and assault and whatever else happened with Ravel. It's best for everyone if we bring someone else in and move him on if Jose stays, just find him airing all this in public very distasteful. Shaw too if these comments are from his camp and not journalist guesswork.

 

[ArjenIsM3]

Definitely, Schneiderlinn and Welbeck have been ripping up the league! Mourinho though doesn't have a great track record when it comes to selling players however.

His track record when it comes to selling players isn't great, but it's not bad either. He's pretty good at clearing out dead wood and the players he buys to replace them are usually spot on. Inevitably he's made some mistakes but then again who hasn't. With most of those "mistakes" it was the player's choice to leave iirc. A bit like Ferguson with Ronaldo and Pogba.

 

[spiriticon]

Hardly think a bad attitude to training at times is the equivalent of being involved with gang activity and assault and whatever else happened with Ravel. It's best for everyone if we bring someone else in and move him on if Jose stays, just find him airing all this in public very distasteful. Shaw too if these comments are from his camp and not journalist guesswork.

It is slightly distasteful, but I really do think that it is the last straw for Jose.

I'm sure he's tried private talks, he's tried minor public criticism, he's tried OTT public praise (Luke Shaw 'best left back in England' lmao). Nothing works.

This is it for Shaw I think. Full on public shredding. It'll either shake him up from the roots or completely destroy him. If the reports of Shaw having a bust up with Mourinho are true, I'm glad. There's at least still some pride in the boy.

If it doesn't work out for him here, I hope he really reflects on the last 4 years seriously and work out if he still wants to be a top left back.

 

[thagaffer]

He had a big bust up with Mourinho prior to the Brighton game

 

[FootballHQ]

Shaw does seem a bit of a snowflake but seems to me Mourinho gets a kick out of starting him, shouting abuse at him from the touchline when he makes a mistake and then subs him as happened at the weekend.

Anyway isn't it an open secret end of season Danny Rose is joining Man. United and Shaw will go to work with Pochettino again at Spurs?

Read that in a few papers which indicates there's some truth behind it.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Mourinho is a vengeful person. Once Luke rejected Mourinho’s Chelsea to join United, Mourinho branded him as a young lad who looks for money at that time. You can see Mourinho agenda against Luke since day 1.

Yup, has nothing to do with Luke Shaw being out of shape, unfit and shite in 90% of his performances since joining the club.

Everyone is well within their right to dislike Mourinho but feck me, in this case we’ve got a professional footballer who can’t act professional and who’s attitude has been questioned by every single manager he’s worked under.

Did you lot even watch the other night? The difference between Shaw and a failed winger at LB was night & day!

 

[NinjaZombie]

Various managers have questioned Shaw's attitude. It's a shame. I thought we'd nailed down a left back for years when he signed.

 

[Oldyella]

Shaw does seem a bit of a snowflake but seems to me Mourinho gets a kick out of starting him, shouting abuse at him from the touchline when he makes a mistake and then subs him as happened at the weekend.

Anyway isn't it an open secret end of season Danny Rose is joining Man. United and Shaw will go to work with Pochettino again at Spurs?

Read that in a few papers which indicates there's some truth behind it.

Hopefully not. Got to be better options out there than Rose.

 

[Craig Ward]

I believe Mourinho has given him a lot of time to get his attitude sorted. He's criticised Shaw in public previously, he also publicly praised Shaw to the hilt. Yes, people, Mourinho also has praised Shaw publicly too.

But none of it has worked on his long term mentality.

My feeling is that Shaw just cannot be bothered to turn himself into a top left back. He applies himself for a few weeks, plays alright, and then lets himself go.

He's like a smoker trying to give up fags. He just cannot do it.

After praising Shaw he then didn't pick him for the next 4-5 games.

 

[tjb]

Honestly, he is immensely overrated. Fans have this habit of glorifying youth. At United our fans try to force young players into our first 11 because they view it as a tradition. But the truth is, young players only get into starting 11's when they are better alternatives to actual starting 11 quality players. Van Persie started for Arsenal when he became legitimately better than Bergkamp. Busquets started for Barca when he was seen as a better alternative to Yaya Toure, but here, regardless of quality or maturity, we try to force players through. We should have bought a starting left back ages ago.
Another thing that gets me is this rejection of loans. We should have loaned out Shaw, Smalling and Jones( 4 years ago) and Rashford, watched them develop in less aggressive environments, and brought them back with experience and confidence, while signing players to progress us further along. Instead we sat on our hands, waiting for these players to develop, but the reality is, player development is not a guarantee. You see this in the NBA every year. Players who get drafted with so much hype, only to have careers far less successful as was expected. Bayern Munich loaned out Alaba and Kroos to Hoffenheim and Leverkusen before bringing them back. They both came back to be mainstays. Chelsea loaned Courtois to Atletico before bringing him back. He came back to be a mainstay. We do not have strong competition for our younger players in the reserves, and we cannot afford to play these young players in such high pressure situations at this stage of their careers. Teams like Tottenham and Liverpool can afford lulls, we cannot. So in order for these players to gain the type of experience that will help them, loans are good alternatives. Loans refine players. Shaw should have been loaned out last season after his leg injury, maybe if he was in a less high pressure situation, he would have recovered quicker and more effectively from his injury. In my opinion, we should also have loaned Rashford out last season, he was not a starting quality player because he had far too many weaknesses in his game. In England, its viewed as a bad thing, some form of exile. But the fact remains that players, especially at the bigger teams are not developing as the should, and maybe loaning them out at ages

 

[spiriticon]

After praising Shaw he then didn't pick him for the next 4-5 games.

Could it be that Shaw didn't train hard enough after the praise?

Much as I think Mourinho can be a dick, he doesn't have to be the pantomime villain all the time. More so in this case, where I truly believe that Luke Shaw's problems are firmly because of Luke Shaw.

 

[tjb]

Honestly, he is immensely overrated. Fans have this habit of glorifying youth. At United our fans try to force young players into our first 11 because they view it as a tradition. But the truth is, young players only get into starting 11's when they are better alternatives to actual starting 11 quality players. Van Persie started for Arsenal when he became legitimately better than Bergkamp. Busquets started for Barca when he was seen as a better alternative to Yaya Toure, but here, regardless of quality or maturity, we try to force players through. We should have bought a starting left back ages ago.
Another thing that gets me is this rejection of loans. We should have loaned out Shaw, Smalling and Jones( 4 years ago) and Rashford, watched them develop in less aggressive environments, and brought them back with experience and confidence, while signing players to progress us further along. Instead we sat on our hands, waiting for these players to develop, but the reality is, player development is not a guarantee. You see this in the NBA every year. Players who get drafted with so much hype, only to have careers far less successful as was expected. Bayern Munich loaned out Alaba and Kroos to Hoffenheim and Leverkusen before bringing them back. They both came back to be mainstays. Chelsea loaned Courtois to Atletico before bringing him back. He came back to be a mainstay. We do not have strong competition for our younger players in the reserves, and we cannot afford to play these young players in such high pressure situations at this stage of their careers. Teams like Tottenham and Liverpool can afford lulls, we cannot. So in order for these players to gain the type of experience that will help them, loans are good alternatives. Loans refine players. Shaw should have been loaned out last season after his leg injury, maybe if he was in a less high pressure situation, he would have recovered quicker and more effectively from his injury. In my opinion, we should also have loaned Rashford out last season, he was not a starting quality player because he had far too many weaknesses in his game. In England, its viewed as a bad thing, some form of exile. But the fact remains that players, especially at the bigger teams are not developing as the should, and maybe loaning them out at ages 19, 20 and 21 would help them develop

 

[The Cat]

He's a gonner now. Don't think there is even a 1% chance of him staying.

 

[RedPnutz]

Could it be that Shaw didn't train hard enough after the praise?

Much as I think Mourinho can be a dick, he doesn't have to be the pantomime villain all the time. More so in this case, where I truly believe that Luke Shaw's problems are firmly because of Luke Shaw.

Why would players ever take responsibility for performing poorly on the pitch when the fans are quick to absolve them and blame the manager instead?

Every time I play shit the press and fan forums say it is the manager’s fault. Yea, I will just carry on the way I do then.

 

[Crimson King]

At this point we just need to sign another first choice LB. He may come good somewhere else, but it just hasn't worked out for him. It happens to every club at some point.

As long as we recruit properly this time and don't just throw £50million at Danny Rose. He turns 28 in the summer and is too injury prone.

 

[tomaldinho1]

For all the anti Mou sentiment on this story - I have no issues with players being called out and Mou's only saying the same thing as G Nev, Hodgson, Poch and LVG in a more direct manner.

Shaw is young, he'll still have a career but I think Mou's judgement is pretty sound on getting rid of players - he's probably sold hundreds of players and yet who has he made a mistake on? Salah, KDB, Bonucci, Tiago?

 

[red_devil83]

For all the anti Mou sentiment on this story - I have no issues with players being called out and Mou's only saying the same thing as G Nev, Hodgson, Poch and LVG in a more direct manner.

Shaw is young, he'll still have a career but I think Mou's judgement is pretty sound on getting rid of players - he's probably sold hundreds of players and yet who has he made a mistake on? Salah, KDB, Bonucci, Tiago?

Yea but all those mistakes are ridiculously bad. And at least KDB and Salah went the same way as Shaw is going. Mourinho doesn't give them any game time. Slags them off constantly then sells them. They then go on to be world beaters.

 

[FujiVice]

Shaw is young, he'll still have a career but I think Mou's judgement is pretty sound on getting rid of players - he's probably sold hundreds of players and yet who has he made a mistake on? Salah, KDB, Bonucci, Tiago?

Getting rid of Lukaku when he was complaining about having no strikers in his first season back at Chelsea was the most Mourinho thing ever.

 

[Kapardin]

Getting rid of Lukaku when he was complaining about having no strikers in his first season back at Chelsea was the most Mourinho thing ever.

Tbf, it paid off in the 2nd season when Costa powered them to the title. I don't think they would have bought him if Lukaku had been there, and Lukaku certainly was not good enough to do what Costa did back then.

 

[JK-27]

He had a big bust up with Mourinho prior to the Brighton game

What evidence is there of this? It'd be good to know because it puts an interesting spin on things. If he had a bust up prior to the Brighton game why did Jose start him? So he could haul him off at half time and publicly humiliate him?

Shaw is the most expensive teenager in English football for a reason. He was picked at such a young age for England for a reason. He played at such a young age in the Southampton first team for a reason. Form is temporary, class is permanent.

Shaw has put in MOTM performances this season. And he's managed that despite apparently being an unfit, over-hyped, piece of shite who Jose hates.

Something is just not adding up.

 

[Alvaro Maestre]

If SAF threw a boot to Beckhams head, I think its fair for Mou to do that to a nobody that is still Shaw here. But well , people still want Chicharito,Zaha or Depay here back at the club so Its not strange all the love Shaw is getting.

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

Shaw has been, to use the popular term, bullied by Mourinho. Not enough games given, and whenever he is given, he is publicly criticised. I really think he needs some extended time in the first team, and he can still be very good.
I don't see him having a future here, obviously. Pity he's gonna go down the KDB/Salah road.

 

[FootyGirl88]

I would like Shaw to stay even as a #2 choice, i think next season he should go out on loan to get regular minutes.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Shaw has been, to use the popular term, bullied by Mourinho. Not enough games given, and whenever he is given, he is publicly criticised. I really think he needs some extended time in the first team, and he can still be very good.
I don't see him having a future here, obviously. Pity he's gonna go down the KDB/Salah road.

Based on what? He's absolutely dire and out of shape.

This place is a real mess at the moment.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

Jose shouldn't be allowed to bully players regardless of how they are playing. Just shut up and tell Shaw that he isn't wanted. All signs point to Shaw not succeeding here so he should be sold.
But Jose sold Dr Bruyne ( best player in the league), Salah ( 2nd best player in the league) and lukaku. It is just hard to trust Mourinho when he has made such grand blunders.

 

[FujiVice]

If SAF threw a boot to Beckhams head,

Which he didnt.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

Could it be that Shaw didn't train hard enough after the praise?

Well i mean its seems quite a childish point but shaw was noticeably chubbier then any other united player on Saturday, I don't know whether that effects his game as he does still get up and down the pitch well, but when you have a dodgy injury record and your trying to win over the manager and your turm up looking a bit chunky it doesn't do you any favours.

Much as I think Mourinho can be a dick, he doesn't have to be the pantomime villain all the time. More so in this case, where I truly believe that Luke Shaw's problems are firmly because of Luke Shaw.

I agree with you mostly, i mean Shaw was far from utterly terrible Saturday so hauling him off at half time does make Mourinho look like the villain, especially with Mourinhos erratic behaviour lately, also the reason he gave for hauling shaw of was bizzare:

"My reason behind it is that we work on the pitch certain kinds of movements where it was really important for the two full backs to be aggressive and to be always in front"

Shaw had assisted in the goal (his lap over play got the ball to Matic) and to be honest he was playing very aggressive and was combining with Martial well, so that doesn't really ad up, if anything he was to far forward at times leaving us exposed.

On the flip-side Shaw positioning can still be dodgy and he is obviously not in the best shape and has to do more if he wants to win over the manager.

For my money though it's obviously just two people who don't work well together, Shaw comes of as the kind of player who needs and arm round his shoulder and Mourinho wants players who are motivated by his tough love routine.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

But Jose sold Dr Bruyne ( best player in the league), Salah ( 2nd best player in the league) and lukaku. It is just hard to trust Mourinho when he has made such grand blunders.

We could go on about this again and again but José absolutely did not want to sell Lukaku or KdB.

 

[Alvaro Maestre]

Which he didnt.

Ok, kicked and it landed on his head, same thing.

 

[VP89]

Can we do a straight swap for Rose. Sounds like both equally want out and both similar standard with their own setbacks in valuation (Shaw struggled for form whilst Rose has been injured a fair bit this season).

 

[JK-27]

If SAF threw a boot to Beckhams head, I think its fair for Mou to do that to a nobody that is still Shaw here. But well , people still want Chicharito,Zaha or Depay here back at the club so Its not strange all the love Shaw is getting.

Even Jose said he wouldn't have sold Chico.

Zaha and Depay never put in man of the match performances, and never looked likely to. Shaw has.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

We could go on about this again and again but José absolutely did not want to sell Lukaku or KdB.

And yet he did. A good mannager would have recognised their talent and kept them happy.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Yea but all those mistakes are ridiculously bad. And at least KDB and Salah went the same way as Shaw is going. Mourinho doesn't give them any game time. Slags them off constantly then sells them. They then go on to be world beaters.

Find me a manager who has been in the game as long as Mou and hasn't made a few bad calls. If he had sold them and the not been successful there might be a case there but he's always won major trophies. Hypothetically, if he had sold Messi, Ronaldo and Neymar but won multiple Domestic and European titles would that be a bad call?

 

[noodlehair]

I didn't see the full game on Saturday so can't really commment on the performance.

I do find it a bit weird though this time around. He was playing well when he got dropped. Fair enough if you think Young is better. I'm not convinced really as Young flaps when the opposition pressure him and has terrible decision making in his own defesive third of the pitch...but I'll buy the argument his experience puts him ahead of Shaw in big games, which we had a load of in a row.

However you can't drop someone for basically o other reaosn than that, for over a month, then bring them back in and expect the same level of performance. If he's not doing is job and you have too sub him off, ok, but you take responsibility as the manager for that, since you dropped him from the team when he was playing well.

It's different to previously where Shaw just hasn't done well enough in the first place. This time he's just been caught up in Mourinho looking for things to blme for is own failings.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

And yet he did. A good mannager would have recognised their talent and kept them happy.

That's nonsense @Dr. StrangeHate, Barca lost Thiago, United lost Pogba. I could go on and on.

Sometimes players want too much too soon and aren't prepared to wait. When both of those players left Chelsea, there were better players playing ahead of them.

 

[Escobar]

Mourinho may be wrong or he may be right.

Concerning Shaw, what he done to be labelled one of the greatest fullback prospects out there? He's not very productive in attack; his crossing is no better than average. He has speed, but he's not Alba fast, and he is a little slow on the turn, thus getting rinsed by Jesus Navas, rather easily. He's not particularly good defensively either. He is a good, albeit safe passer of the ball, and he is very strong. That being said, does anyone see him becoming the best fullback in the league, let alone the world? I am also genuinly concerned about his engine, and although I somewhat doubt that he is overweight, he is bulky, so how long can he keep it up? His frame is even bigger than Rooney's, for instance.

Yes he's not the best LB in the world, but to treat him like he did over all this time is quite heavy