[Oldyella]

Professionalism.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

I'm disgusted by a lot of Jose's actions but I know how that will end.

Shaw isn't the first player criticised(Heck, he wasn't the only one criticised yesterday). If it's not him running to the media, it's his stupid family members fighting his battles.

He was the only one named. He probably knows he is on his way so has decided to fight his corner in the papers. Cant really argue with that, I know I would be if my boss kept spouting stuff about me.

It feels like Jose 101, slate certain players in the press and turn fans against them, move them on. Rinse and repeat next year when he needs his next scapegoat.

 

[K2K]

He was the only one named. He probably knows he is on his way so has decided to fight his corner in the papers. Cant really argue with that, I know I would be if my boss kept spouting stuff about me.

It feels like Jose 101, slate certain players in the press and turn fans against them, move them on. Rinse and repeat next year when he needs his next scapegoat.

He talked about Valencia too.

And he's the captain.

Shaw leaving is best for all parties. It's never worked out here. Even before Jose.

 

[JPRouve]

You mean the fact that Young made double the number of passes past the opposition 18 yard line that Shaw did? Or double the number in the final third of the pitch? Or 5x as many from the touch line in the opposition half as Shaw did? No long passes in the final third? No aerial passes?

I'm talking about the general area. Now you could also say that your "double the number of passes past the opposition 18 yards" is 3 to 6 out of 39 and 41 passes but one of Shaw's pass is virtually on the 18 yard line, so it could well be 4 to 6. That 4 of the 13 passes made by Young in the last third are throw ins, while Shaw has only 1 throw in out 15 passes, that last point is important regarding your post because the 1 to 5 from the touch line represents throw ins. Shaw registered 2 crosses while Young registered 1.

 

[Oldyella]

He talked about Valencia too.

And he's the captain.

Shaw leaving is best for all parties. It's never worked out here. Even before Jose.

Agreed. Probably moved a year too soon, should of stopped another year at Southampton and played every week.

 

[Brophs]

You can argue about the reasons why, but he’s been here for 4 years and not had much more than a month or so where he’s consistently looked the part. Eventually you just have to accept that it’s not going to work and let both parties move on.

 

[ravi2]

He was the only one named. He probably knows he is on his way so has decided to fight his corner in the papers. Cant really argue with that, I know I would be if my boss kept spouting stuff about me.

It feels like Jose 101, slate certain players in the press and turn fans against them, move them on. Rinse and repeat next year when he needs his next scapegoat.

Actually LVG had issues with Shaw as well, he publicly said Shaw wasn't fit enough to do what he was asking of him. I don't think LVG and Jose are both wrong bout Shaw.

 

[K2K]

Agreed. Probably moved a year too soon, should of stopped another year at Southampton and played every week.

27m back then was a lot of money.

No way Southampton were turning it down.

I wonder where he will go. I don't think he will go to Spurs. Would need to take a massive pay cut there.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Look at the difference Matic has had on us.

For me it's not about signing megastars but finding the right fits to what Jose wants in his fullbacks. I think that will go a long way for us.

I wouldn’t say Matic has transformed our midfield. He is better than playing Fellaini or Herrera in that role but our midfield still has the same problem it had last year.
I do agree it doesn’t need to be a superstar, it’s just in terms of decent quality players there is a massive lack in quality in those positions and no one i’d automatically think we could get who is better than what we have.
What does he really want from the position as well, he’s abused Shaw for attacking, he’s abused Shaw for not attacking enough, what is it he wants.

 

[MrBest]

He played really well when young was injured, then young came back and he was dropped. The lad has zero confidence, clearly a personality clash with Jose and his mind is not here. If i was Shaw, i would leave. Saying that, what would you bet that Shaw in 4 years time is the best left back in the world? Few names ring to mind ... Salah, De Bruyne, Lukaku

 

[Coxy]

He played really well when young was injured, then young came back and he was dropped. The lad has zero confidence, clearly a personality clash with Jose and his mind is not here. If i was Shaw, i would leave. Saying that, what would you bet that Shaw in 4 years time is the best left back in the world? Few names ring to mind ... Salah, De Bruyne, Lukaku

Yep this completely sadly. Shouldn’t have been dropped

 

[Red_toad]

Joses ruined him.

When a manager doesnt like you, you just have to move on. No wonder he looks like hes put weight on he doesnt ever play.

best of luck at your new club luke.

When you're a professional highly paid athlete, least you could do would be to control your weight and maintain your fitness. Can't blame any manager for his issues as he's had the same issues under everyone who's managed him.

 

[Ekeke]

Ehhhhh no.

Flipping hell play half the games and rest the other half ? No sir. That's not what a top athlete at Manchester United should aspire to is it? Rest between games is something you give to the 30 year olds. He is 22 ffs.

Who are all these top athletes at manchester united who play at the top level every week? I could only name De Gea.

 

[MrBest]

When you're a professional highly paid athlete, least you could do would be to control your weight and maintain your fitness. Can't blame any manager for his issues as he's had the same issues under everyone who's managed him.

That's a fair point but also remember he has probably been injured for about 70% of his United career. Constant instability and hard to maintain fitness. Some players need extra nurturing and he seems like one. The talent is very very clear but the managers we have had in gaal and Jose do not fit him at all. He should leave unless we get a new manager (which I want but don't count my lucky stars). I just no in a few years he is going to be something special .

 

[Dion]

I'm talking about the general area. Now you could also say that your "double the number of passes past the opposition 18 yards" is 3 to 6 out of 39 and 41 passes but one of Shaw's pass is virtually on the 18 yard line, so it could well be 4 to 6. That 4 of the 13 passes made by Young in the last third are throw ins, while Shaw has only 1 throw in out 15 passes, that last point is important regarding your post because the 1 to 5 from the touch line represents throw ins. Shaw registered 2 crosses while Young registered 1.

Talk about "general area" all you like then. Look who is playing wide and advanced and who isn't.

 

[JPRouve]

When you're a professional highly paid athlete, least you could do would be to control your weight and maintain your fitness. Can't blame any manager for his issues as he's had the same issues under everyone who's managed him.

Off topic but Lequipe has an investigative program on their channel and a year ago it was about football players using personal fitness coaches and dieteticians. Apparently it's very common that clubs don't like it because they want to have a total control over the players, some player hide it from their clubs.

 

[Red_toad]

That's a fair point but also remember he has probably been injured for about 70% of his United career. Constant instability and hard to maintain fitness. Some players need extra nurturing and he seems like one. The talent is very very clear but the managers we have had in gaal and Jose do not fit him at all. He should leave unless we get a new manager (which I want but don't count my lucky stars). I just no in a few years he is going to be something special .

Atkins, Hodgson, Pochettino, Van Gaal and Jose have all questioned Luke's attitude. Maybe the problem is a little deeper than you're making out it is. As I said the least any professional Premier League player should be able to maintain a good level of fitness. I don't know what manager he needs, but seems ALL of the ones he's had have had issues with his fitness and weight.

 

[Canagel]

I hope we insert a buy back clause incase he comes good.

 

[MrBest]

Atkins, Hodgson, Pochettino, Van Gaal and Jose have all questioned Luke's attitude. Maybe the problem is a little deeper than you're making out it is. As I said the least any professional Premier League player should be able to maintain a good level of fitness. I don't know what manager he needs, but seems ALL of the ones he's had have had issues with his fitness and weight.

Yeah I get your point as I've said but i still believe some players need to be pampered. People forget players are also humans and are full of emotions. He probably feels like he has no desire after Jose constantly humiliates him publically. Shaw shpuld fix up but probably needs a klopp type manager to push him and rejuvenate him.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Yeah I get your point as I've said but i still believe some players need to be pampered. People forget players are also humans and are full of emotions. He probably feels like he has no desire after Jose constantly humiliates him publically. Shaw shpuld fix up but probably needs a klopp type manager to push him and rejuvenate him.

Jesus!

He's not a fecking U12

 

[MrBest]

Jesus!

He's not a fecking U12

Some people just mature way later

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Watch him become England's #1 left back as soon as he leaves Mourinho's grip.

Like that's some sort of upward curve.

Southgate's team looks shit. Even Sterling looks average in an England shirt. Dier looks..... well dire. Shaw would fit in well there

 

[spiriticon]

Who are all these top athletes at manchester united who play at the top level every week? I could only name De Gea.

I think you misunderstand my meaning of top athlete here. In this case, I mean players who have the fitness to play for 90 minutes for the majority of the season, and not based on ability.

Just looking at all our fullbacks this year, I would say a 33 year old Valencia and 32 year old Ashley Young look like they have more lungs than Shaw. That, for me, is unacceptable for a 22 year old who's meant to be in his physical prime.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Some people just mature way later

Like we're some sort of fecking nursery for spoilt footballers!!

When all though Young was finished, he went away and worked to get back into the side, now he's No 1.

Shaw was praised as a good LB by Jose, people forget that. He gets an opportunity and let's us down..end of patience

 

[Inigo Montoya]

I think you misunderstand my meaning of top athlete here. In this case, I mean players who have the fitness to play for 90 minutes for the majority of the season, and not based on ability.

Just looking at all our fullbacks this year, I would say a 33 year old Valencia and 32 year old Ashley Young look like they have more lungs than Shaw. That, for me, is unacceptable for a 22 year old who's meant to be in his physical prime.

Called professionalism! Something Luke would be best advised to learn

 

[exit35]

He played really well when young was injured, then young came back and he was dropped. The lad has zero confidence, clearly a personality clash with Jose and his mind is not here. If i was Shaw, i would leave. Saying that, what would you bet that Shaw in 4 years time is the best left back in the world? Few names ring to mind ... Salah, De Bruyne, Lukaku

And Mourinho gave him a lot of praise so things were looking positive then he just dropped him again.

Jesus!

He's not a fecking U12

It's a fact that there are players that respond best to an arm around their shoulder and others respond best to a kick up the back side. The great managers can usually tell what the player needs and can offer both. Absolutely nothing wrong with this.

 

[Still ill]

Whole things bizarre. Hate the way Jose calls people out like that. However, it has always struck me that all Shaw has to do is burst himself on training every day, I mean conspicuously work his arse off. And anyone can do that, can't they? If he can't be bothered to do that when that's obviously what if takes them really and truly, enough is enough . I feel like we've been talking about him for 10 years. Move the feck on.

 

[JK-27]

Bash Shaw all you want, but he has produced some very good performances for us, got a standing ovation at OT and won a MOTM award. Who else in the backline has done that this season? And this from a lad who supposedly, by the standards of this forum, isn't a professional athlete and should leave the club. Well if he leaves, what does that say about the rest of the backline - Blind, Rojo, and Darmian particularly. Surely they should go too.

So he's a bigger guy. It's not like Rooney has a model footballers shape is it, yet he was world class. Why does size come in to his ability? Jose has not, at least publicly, called in to question Shaw's shape of late. Hell, maybe even Jose told him to put more weight on, we just don't know.

At the beginning of the season Jose publicly said Shaw wasn't putting in effort, then in December said he was marvelous and would get a new contract, and now he's back to calling Shaw shite again. Sounds like Jose is the one who is up and down and not sure what he wants rather than Shaw being in and out of form. Plenty of other players have fluctuated in form and Jose has played them consistently.

 

[jungledrums]

I rate Shaw, but given his performances and everything else around him I have no problem with Jose selling him. What I don't like is why he continues to criticise him in public. Not sure anyone comes out of it well and Mourinho just seems like a cnut.

Still unsure why he didn't just sell him in the summer and buy a LB.

Couldn’t agree more. Fair enough if people on here don’t rate Shaw, but what’s with the fecking vitriol. He genuinely seems a decent bloke and he’s still a United player. The fact remains, Mourinho is a cnut.

 

[Dave89]

Professionalism.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

I'm disgusted by a lot of Jose's actions but I know how that will end.

Shaw isn't the first player criticised(Heck, he wasn't the only one criticised yesterday). If it's not him running to the media, it's his stupid family members fighting his battles.

If we're demand our players make up for a lack of professionalism from the manager, we have the wrong manager.

 

[Dion]

If we're demand our players make up for a lack of professionalism from the manager, we have the wrong manager.

It's not about making up a lack of professionalism, it's about not making a problem worse.

 

[Sandikan]

I'm sure we had these same threads on Shaw a year ago. How many years do we give it? Another one?

Getting hooked on 45 when playing a poor team at home is another big low.
He might well not start another game this season now.

Is it really 4 seasons here now? Dreadful bad luck with the injury, but the rest of the time has been a let down. He must feel it too, and know a move to somewhere with less intense pressure and focus on every move would be beneficial.

 

[Dave89]

It's not about making up a lack of professionalism, it's about not making a problem worse.

Ok, if our players have to be mindful of not exacerbating a problem caused by the manager, we have the wrong manager.

 

[engulfing]

I remember him coming on when we were chasing the game against Palace. This piece of shit couldn't even lift his head up and pass the ball backwards with his right foot. He isn't anywhere near where we need him to be. Mentally, physically, technically and tactically. The only thing he has is pace. The lack of professionalism charge is probably true, the minimum a player can do is stay in shape and he doesn't look in shape.

 

[Dion]

Ok, if our players have to be mindful of not exacerbating a problem caused by the manager, we have the wrong manager.

Maybe, but then we also have the wrong player don't we?

 

[PepsiCola]

I remember him coming on when we were chasing the game against Palace. This piece of shit couldn't even lift his head up and pass the ball backwards with his right foot. He isn't anywhere near where we need him to be. Mentally, physically, technically and tactically. The only thing he has is pace. The lack of professionalism charge is probably true, the minimum a player can do is stay in shape and he doesn't look in shape.

Are you an adult?

 

[Revaulx]

I'm not making up shit to defend him though, that's the difference.

I think people would be less prone to doing this if Shaw’s principal rival was someone other than Young, a player towards whom Caftards have an unreasonable dislike.

LvG called Shaw out for starting his first season overweight and unfit. He also praised him for the effort he put in sorting himself out. From this is strikes me that he hasn’t actually got a bad attitude, but is a bit immature and requires a certain amount of nannying to keep him fit and focused. LvG could do this, but it’s not really Jose’s thing. So yes, it’s best that Shaw moves on.

 

[Grande]

I think people would be less prone to doing this if Shaw’s principal rival was someone other than Young, a player towards whom Caftards have an unreasonable dislike.

LvG called Shaw out for starting his first season overweight and unfit. He also praised him for the effort he put in sorting himself out. From this is strikes me that he hasn’t actually got a bad attitude, but is a bit immature and requires a certain amount of nannying to keep him fit and focused. LvG could do this, but it’s not really Jose’s thing. So yes, it’s best that Shaw moves on.

Well put. I also think it is fairly clear, from what has been said before and now, that Jose’s issues with Luke is not much about fitness and ability, but about attitude and intelligence. I don’t much care for Mourinho’s way of hanging him out to dry in public about it, but his frustration is in a way understandable. He know’s what kind of positioning and choices he’s been trying to hammer i to the lad, and when the lad can’t grasp it like other players can, it wears on. Particularly when ‘experts’ like us and Paul Scholes see a Shaw running fast, going hard into duels and winning headers, and ignoring how they don’t really know what tasks he has that he’s messing up, go on to claim Mourinho doesn’t know what he’s doing benching him. Rumours points towards his own superiors at the club can’t understand it, and is trying to force an unwanted player on Mou.

Shaw may well function better in another set up with a different manager. World class I don’t expect, though. But it’s clearly not happening under Mourinho.

 

[Jig1234]

 

[FromTheBench]

 

[FromTheBench]

Shaw is going out. Thats for sure.

But this situation may damage Mourinho too with the players and others.