Afonso Alves, Kezman, former world class players. We should have signed them.
Luis Suarez
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Aye... For the last 5 seasons we've had Rooney, Tevez, Saha, (Ronaldo to an extent) and they Berbatov!! Only two are still here.
At some point one of the top scorers in the Dutch league will be an awesome player.Could that be Suarez ?
Ruud
Louis Saha who was only fit for half a season in his 2nd last year. Who scored a massive 5 goals in his last year with us. Carlos Tevez, hero. 5 league goals for us in his final season. Okay.
Well according to most, Ruud is the last top striker from Holland.
Your Gassing... Saha injured throught the whole of his last season is really all that needs to be said in regards to him, otherwise absolute quality. Tevez never stayed because the price tag was too great. How much goals did he score in the league again this season??
Veron was great in Italy. Ditto Berba at Spurs. Doesn't mean a thing if they couldn't produce it with us. 5 league goals. Great achievement.
Tevez never stayed because he was scared of competition. Heinze was the same.
Tevez never stayed because he was scared of competition. Heinze was the same.
The Dutch league was nearly always at a lower standard of football then the EPL but we always managed to find quality talent there which proved to be fantastic buys. Maybe there is a reason why we went for Stam, Park or Ruud rather then Alves or Kezman. If those same scouts/coaching staff believe that Suarez is the real thing then I hope that we get him.
I think that the Berba experience had taught us that United strikers need to have three things, pace, workrate and finishing. Suarez have that. Rooney may not have been a lead the line striker at first but he had developed in the striker that we need and he had scored 34 goals more then all our other options. If Suarez can emulate what Rooney did then 30m for him would look peanuts.
At some point one of the top scorers in the championship will be an awesome player. Could that be Sylvan Ebanks-Blake ?
Hes done nothing to warrent anything close to a 30 million outlay, as we all know there have been many more flops come out of the dutch league than scoring sensations, the boy may have all the ability in the world (debatable) but hes yet to prove he can score at a regular rate in a major league and until then he dosnt warrent such figures alongside his name and would be a huge huge gamble at anything like that price, thats closing in on british transfer record figures.
20 million and he might be worth a punt IF he has a very good world cup and looks the part on the world stage.
20 million and he might be worth a punt IF he has a very good world cup and looks the part on the world stage.
I seriously do not understand how a bunch of you on here have already written him off as a flop.. Seriously this place never seizes to amaze me..
I don't see why our scouts would be any more accurate with judging the ability of players in Holland than anywhere else in the world. Yes Ruud, Stam and Park worked out well, but that doesn't mean that every player we sign from Holland will necessarily be a success just because we have done well so far. With our biggest money signings we haven't got a great track record, i.e. Veron and Berba.
Berba, while not being good enough as you say, doesn't actually lead the line which is what I think he was brought here to do. This actually backs up my point, that we need a target man, not necessarily another Rooney. Suarez might be a good player but if he gets in the way of Rooney playing his game, then there is a good chance he won't be worth the money we pay for him. Just to clarify I do think Suarez is a decent player, I'm just not sure if he would fit for us.
I'm sure its purely based on the figures mentioned in the same sentance as his name. If we bought him for £15 million I think everyone would be quite optimistic, but when you hear about the £20 million + figures, and look at the sides he's scoring against, or his unimpressive record in even the europa league and it should make you nervous.
Here's a list of the decent teams he's scored against :
Team 1
Its not very convincing for someone who is supposedly a big money player. If he scores 3 or 4 against good players at the world cup then he'll have at least proven something.
Well we'll get a chance to see him tonight against France, I think he looks a decent player with a great competitive edge to him, but I still have reservations.
So by that logic, every good striker has to score against a big side to be worth the money ?
I do agree about the price but of course the current money inflation caused by the circus the renties and the shitty are insane...
Suarez isn't just about scoring goals though, he has sort of a good contribution to a fairly good Ajax side, imagine if he had the services of Valencia/Nani and Scholes and Rooney, it should be a good blend and the lad has good pace and his finishing is top class.
Just cut out the comparisons with the other Dutch league players, its unfair to compare him to Alves, Kezman etc, Ruud succeeded because he joined the best club in the world and always had the potential to make it, I think Suarez is similar.
I'm sure everyone's assumption is that will Suarez fit ?
FFS, we didn't even know if Rooney was world class until we signed him.. did we ?
Its the risk we either are willing to take or not take, Berba was a gamble and we probably lost, Suarez will be the same... but we don't know the outcome yet until we pay the bet.
Our assumptions our just fan views, but if you are looking if Suarez is a good player. He is definately a player I'd pay to watch.
FFS, we didn't even know if Rooney was world class until we signed him.. did we ?
Its the risk we either are willing to take or not take, Berba was a gamble and we probably lost, Suarez will be the same... but we don't know the outcome yet until we pay the bet.
Our assumptions our just fan views, but if you are looking if Suarez is a good player. He is definately a player I'd pay to watch.
Luis Suarez is better than Silva, Benzema, Gourcuff, Joe Cole, Hamsik, Dzeko, or any other player that is praised on this forum.
Lets not compare players in different positions shall we.
Put him in their positions and I'm sure he will do a better job.
I am not saying that every single signing that we will do from the Dutch league will be top notch. Stating that our scouts in that area had done a fantastic job and there is nothing to suggest that they will fail. The Dutch league is for us, what the Brazilian league is for Milan. They rarely make one mistake there. Regarding your comments about big money signings I disagree. Its true that we failed with Berba and Veron. Stating that we did succeeded with many others including Keane (British record signing), Rio and Stam (defender record signing), Rooney (20m), Ruud (15m) etc. I can name you a long list of bargains which had failed miserably from Dong to Djemba, from Bellion to Kleberson, from Taibi right to Manucho. That doesn't mean that we suck in that area don't we?
We won the CL with Tevez-Rooney upfront and none of them was a target man. The problem with Berba is not that he cant lead the line. I mean Rooney IS our target man. The problem with Berba is that he is slow, his movement is horrible and he finds it hard to score. Suarez does not have those problems
Anyway as stated if SAF wants Suarez, then I hope he gets him.
A side above championship level yeah. I went and had a look at who he has been scoring goals against the past 2 seasons and low and behold, no decent european teams. Just the crap in his domestic league. He did play against Juventus this past season and although they arent all that these days, they are still a few levels above all the other teams he's played against. He didnt score in the Juventus match and in the europa league this season his record reads as 2 goals in 6 starts, and 1 of the 2 goals was a penalty. Hardly £30 million goalmachine stuff against not particularly brilliant opposition once again. I mean this is the competition Fulham got to the final of, so if he was such a brilliant goalscorer he could surely have done better than 1 goal in open play in starts against Poli Timisoara x2, Anderlecht x2, Dinamo Zagreb x1 (+ 1 sub appearance in the other game) and finally Juventus.
The comparisons are there because he hasnt proven himself against decent teams yet. People are getting carried away with goals against even crapper teams than Kezman and Kuyt were scoring against as the league used to be a bit stronger. When he does prove himself against good sides, you'll hear those comparisons less. But dont expect him to continue scoring for fun against above-championsip level opponents.
Missed the euros then did you?
Berbatov was less of a gamble as he'd proven productive against even the top teams in our own domestic league. He had proven himself in europe and for his international side. And yes it was still a gamble and it still didnt pay off.
Doing the same thing with Suarez is thrice as mad.
That's now the 2nd time you've sarcastically answered to me being wondering whether or not a striker from Holland could or couldn't actually be a good player.Some sarcastic and useless quotes from yours as before shooting him down ( as well as highly praising him) we should wait to see him perform in a different and more difficult context than Ajax but some people (idiots) like you seem to be convinced that he's already not so good despite no proof
As Hamsik and Silva are totally different style of players in different positions, you can't make that assumption, where as I do agree he's better than pretty much any striker were linked with, he's not a box to box energetic midfielder nor winger nor creative midfielder.
Well neither Chelsea nor City have expressed interest in Suarez. Besides blaming Chelsea for every inflated fee that gets quoted nowadays is a bit unfair for they have been spending significantly less on transfers of late and with all the stories about Roman being keen on making the club able to pay for itself you would think they will be a lot more measured with their transfer policy.
Well that's sort of takes the biscuit for me. Berbatov gets slagged off left, right and centre over here for not being prolific enough in front of goal inspite of his obvious heavy involvement elsewhere and you are advocating that we should sign Suarez based on his other attributes besides scoring goals? Baffling to say the least
Wrong, Ruud succeeded because he was and is miles better than those two as evidenced by his record wherever he has played as a striker from Heereveen to Madrid and now Hamburg. You are right though in saying that Suarez could enjoy similar success to Ruud's but given the hardships facing our club and the fees being bandied about 30 mil is a seriously long stretch.
Ekeke this game against Juventus you keep mentioning iirc he was the best player on the pitch for one of those games.. I didnt see the game myself but it was widely known as a true statement..
P.S I do agree about the price.. Its a bit steep but since when has the press been the benchmark for the actual price of a player? If we are interested and sign him I wont care what price we get him for.. As long as SAF think he is worth the money spent, I don't see anything wrong with it..
P.S I do agree about the price.. Its a bit steep but since when has the press been the benchmark for the actual price of a player? If we are interested and sign him I wont care what price we get him for.. As long as SAF think he is worth the money spent, I don't see anything wrong with it..
Well he doesn't think that way does it?
Most likely
It is along stretch because Ajax would accept 20m without hesitation.
In English?
I'll go further. Rooney's goal return was shit when we signed him.
We never signed him because he was proven. We generally don't sign proven players often.
He's a cut above Kezman & co.
The fact is, finishing, is not his only tool. Whenever I've seen him, he's been instrumental in the build up to goals also. He's a very good reader of the game.
When Romario was playing in Holland I couldn't understand why he wasn't playing in a big european team. He oozed class, and that spark of magic. This guy's got it too.
The fact is, finishing, is not his only tool. Whenever I've seen him, he's been instrumental in the build up to goals also. He's a very good reader of the game.
When Romario was playing in Holland I couldn't understand why he wasn't playing in a big european team. He oozed class, and that spark of magic. This guy's got it too.
I'm not being sarcastic, at some point a top scorer in the championship will be a brilliant player. Just like at some point a top scorer in the Netherlands is going to be a brilliant player.
With no proof of him being any good, the likelyhood is that at this point he's not that good.
But he's young and can get better and he could prove himself a good player at the world cup. He will certainly be facing defences on a higher level than he has done for his club, so a goal tonight and a few more in the tournament would greatly enhance his CV. It wouldnt suddely make him worth £30 million or so, he wouldnt be the first player to have a good world cup... Milan Baros comes to mind. But in terms of proving he is a "goal machine" in a top league, a few goals against good sides cant hurt.
All fair enough. Like I said, if we go and sign him for £15-16 million I will be optimistic about his future with us. Its still a lot of money but its not unreasonable for a player who might score a decent amount of goals in a top league. A gamble but not a sizeable one.
If he scores 3 or 4 against decent sides at the world cup maybe that figure deserves to go up.
But the higher it gets, the more average his record looks. He plays in a shite league and scores lots of goals, he plays in the europa league which isnt great either and then he's 1 in 3 which isnt a particularly great goalscoring record for a striker. In all likelyhood his record in the champions league would only be worse than that since its a few levels above the europa league. And his record in the premier league would be lucky to be half as good as in the dutch league because its 10 times stronger.
As for him as a player, he's direct and doesnt usually look for a team mate to pass to. Instead he gets the ball and heads towards goal to have a shot. He scores lots of goals in the Netherlands but he also misses good chances. This doesnt stop him from being a superb player if he can form a very good strike record against decent/good sides. But he hasnt done that yet, so horses should be held.
As I said before, you can put him in their positions and I'm sure he will do a better job.
He will destroy France in a few minutes, watch him.
Be interesting to see him on the big stage tonight. Whenever I have seen him for the national team he hasn't really stood out for me.
Can only be a good thing if he does well football desperately lacks top quality stikers at the moment.
Can only be a good thing if he does well football desperately lacks top quality stikers at the moment.
Will do.
So what happens if he doesnt destroy France?
What about if he's fairly quiet?
Then I would say you can't tell how good is a player just by one game.
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