Television Lost: The Final Season
- Thread starter The Flying Potato
- Start date
Should have ended at S4.
I think it was Season 4. The one when some of them went back to the real world. It got a bit silly after that.
Loved the show. I consider it my favourite of all time.
Maybe a bit biased as it was the first real show I watched but I just loved the whole thing
Maybe a bit biased as it was the first real show I watched but I just loved the whole thing
I think Season 4 was the only season that I didn't completely enjoy, but then again I could still watch it several times over so it can't be that bad. At the time the ending was a bit of a disappointment and as mentioned parts of the plot were left either unexplained, explained with some plot holes or explained in a way that kind of insulted the viewer.
Having said that, as time passes by I've realised that everything else about the show more than makes up for that. The characters are superb, the plot is very interesting and unique, it's so thrilling (I think this show and Prison Break are still unrivalled for making you desperate to see the next episode), the music is great, the production is great, the mystery is great and I could go on.
I have heard it described as 'each episode is just a trailer for the next episode', and it kind of fits. The ending may have not been excellent in some ways but for a show to be so good for so long and keep you gripped in every single episode I think makes it a fantastic show. There is so much about this show to appreciate regardless of if you liked the ending or not in my opinion.
As far as I can remember, I found 1-3 excellent, 4 okay, 5 excellent and 6 pretty good.
Though the ending really kind of rendered much of series 6 a bit pointless in some ways
Perhaps. I liked seeing some of the history of the island in the latter seasons though.
What about Season 6 though?
The thing that kills the show for me is that, is that the writers tried to "explain away" everything.
What were the whispers/voices? For nearly the entirety of 6 seasons the characters and viewers have wondered what the voices they could hear were. We never get a proper explanation, but at one point Hurley tells us they are the voices of their dead friends, even though they clearly werent.
What are the numbers? I remember a half-hearted explanation about them. But nothing satisfying
Why did Desmand say he had a vision of Claire getting on a helicopter, when she didn't
Why did the writers give up on the second half of that time travel episode
What are the numbers? I remember a half-hearted explanation about them. But nothing satisfying
Why did Desmand say he had a vision of Claire getting on a helicopter, when she didn't
Why did the writers give up on the second half of that time travel episode
Thats not to mention the numerous plot-holes, unfinished story-lines, and so on.
I'd rather the writers left us wondering about things, rather than just try to explain everything badly
I remember getting up at like 4am for the double bill finale and then going to school after. Brilliant show.
I hear your frustrations, and while you have those issues on one hand, does that make all of the epic moments and cliffhangers not epic? Does it take away the excellent characters and cast? Does it take away the immense music? Does it mean that all the time you enjoyed watching it leading up to the 'answers' that you did not actually enjoy it? I get that at the time, it feels like you're only watching the show to get those answers, and if they weren't deemed valid enough it could put a big dampener on things. I myself was left underwhelmed by the finale but it took me time to realise that I still loved the show and appreciated how good it had been while I had otherwise been obsessed with knowing the 'answers'.
Yeah the quality was sky high. But for me, the quality and the mystery were both equally important.
Now days, quality is everywhere. Breaking Bad, House of Cards, Game of Thrones. Although none of those except for maybe GOT can rival lost for the number of great characters, the quality is similar.
Mystery, maybe that's something I am still missing
Now days, quality is everywhere. Breaking Bad, House of Cards, Game of Thrones. Although none of those except for maybe GOT can rival lost for the number of great characters, the quality is similar.
Mystery, maybe that's something I am still missing
I totally agree. For me GoT and Lost are on an elite par. I really couldn't like and enjoy them more if I tried. Another thing that links both shows for me is the amount of standalone epic scenes and moments that get your jaw dropping.
e.g. in Lost where you see Mr Eko and the other tail end survivors for the first time walking on the beach, only they look like absolute savages and are carrying clubs and such, or where you see that Libby worked in the mental institute Hurley was in, or when you watch a full opening scene of a guy waking up and doing his morning routine only to realise he's in the bloody hatch! So many more that I can't recall right now, and I don't think I have to mention any GoT scenes haha.
edit: or when they're on the raft and the 'others' intercept them looking like total pirates!
edit: or when they're on the raft and the 'others' intercept them looking like total pirates!
I think the character development in Lost was one of the best in any TV series. Nearly all of the characters were all very relatable.
A great, great show, in my opinion. Also, one of the first TV shows that I really got hooked on - maybe my first Netflix binge too.
I have never gone back and watched a TV show for a second time, but I've almost forgotten enough of Lost to justify it.
I have never gone back and watched a TV show for a second time, but I've almost forgotten enough of Lost to justify it.
I watched it all a few months ago and I really enjoyed it. But it was mad and I still don't know wtf was going on half the time.
A bit more than a year after finished it, I haven't change my opinion that it was a completely awful TV show. Really ridiculously bad.
I don't think that the last episode was bad, or that the last season was bad. More like the entire show was bad.
Flashforward might have managed to be even worse if it had run for 6 years.
I don't think that the last episode was bad, or that the last season was bad. More like the entire show was bad.
Flashforward might have managed to be even worse if it had run for 6 years.
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Season 1 was amazing in the sense that there were going weird things that make you want more. But in reality, it was just poor writing with the authors making things in a go, and not having any idea why those things make sense. Five seasons later, they still didn't make sense.
On season 2 it was still the same thing, but this time you get familiarized with the nonsense.
Philistine.
I don't agree, I think they knew what they wanted everything to a long long time before.
For example, in episode 1 when the engine explodes (not sure if it's the one that sucked that guy in or not), if you watch it frame-by-frame, you see a black smoke monster type thing leave the engine. So right from the start, they knew they were going to have a smoke monster. Somewhere or another there were early script leaks with the writers arguing back and forth about monsters and mythology and so on.
The thing about TV is that it's constantly changing based on viewer feedback... and the writers are always writing themselves into a corner.
For example:
In the first episode of the fifth season of Breaking Bad, we get a flash forward to an ill Walter White being given keys to a car with a machine gun in it. That machine gun would finally be used against the nazi gang in the final episode of the show, as walter kills all the nazis and saves jesse.
But when the writers had first created that flashforward, they had no idea that it was going to be the nazis that the weapon was used against. We first meet the nazi gang 7 or so episodes after that flash forward, and they don't become the main antagonist until a season later
And yet, everything about that bit of television, worked. At least for me, I was very satisfied with how Breaking Bad ended and satisfied with the flash forward of the machine gun... and everything. Compare that to the plane crash flash forwards in the same show. The plane crash was hinted at for a long time in breaking bad, and whilst it was a shocking finale, they barely referenced it in following seasons. To me, the whole thing didnt work as well.
But when the writers had first created that flashforward, they had no idea that it was going to be the nazis that the weapon was used against. We first meet the nazi gang 7 or so episodes after that flash forward, and they don't become the main antagonist until a season later
And yet, everything about that bit of television, worked. At least for me, I was very satisfied with how Breaking Bad ended and satisfied with the flash forward of the machine gun... and everything. Compare that to the plane crash flash forwards in the same show. The plane crash was hinted at for a long time in breaking bad, and whilst it was a shocking finale, they barely referenced it in following seasons. To me, the whole thing didnt work as well.
My point is, I don't mind that the writers hadn't mapped out how everything was going to work (or that they "made it up as they went along"). That's just normal television, and normal world building in other media. The only thing that galls is that the writers explained away much of the mythology cheaply. They didn't need to explain everything... let us figure it out after Lost ends, like we did with every other episode
Remember when the writers introduced those two jobber characters, who were apparently there the whole time but suddenly appeared and interacted with the main people. And then... cos of crowd feedback were buried alive? 
Season 1 was just so intense and fantastic to watch. S2 I was kinda disappointed with cos it focused too much on Jack, Sawyer and Kate.}
I will give the writers something, the mystery behind the show kept me wanting more, and they used the flashbacks to good effect for each character (something Arrow needs to learn from). But it seemed like they rushed it too much (I think due to not knowing how they were going to end things, wrap a lot of stories up). They posed too many questions, without answering previous ones (and thus it built to a stage where there was too much to resolve).
The finale episode on a whole was decent, but the final season was again, disappointing.
I remember people guessing the island was purgatory, and it seemed the writers kinda panicked and ended up not having the island as purgatory, but then wrote a sideways timeline for the final season which ended up being purgatory.
It was a mess at times but an exciting, thrilling, one that had such intriguing characters where you wanted to see more.
Season 1 was just so intense and fantastic to watch. S2 I was kinda disappointed with cos it focused too much on Jack, Sawyer and Kate.}
I will give the writers something, the mystery behind the show kept me wanting more, and they used the flashbacks to good effect for each character (something Arrow needs to learn from). But it seemed like they rushed it too much (I think due to not knowing how they were going to end things, wrap a lot of stories up). They posed too many questions, without answering previous ones (and thus it built to a stage where there was too much to resolve).
The finale episode on a whole was decent, but the final season was again, disappointing.
I remember people guessing the island was purgatory, and it seemed the writers kinda panicked and ended up not having the island as purgatory, but then wrote a sideways timeline for the final season which ended up being purgatory.
It was a mess at times but an exciting, thrilling, one that had such intriguing characters where you wanted to see more.
I have to say all this talk of LOST has really made me miss it.
Lost does a couple of things really well, but overall it's not a very good TV series when you compare it to TV in the last 5 years or so. Lost was sensational when it started airing, but these days you'll find several better TV series every year.
Lost will forever be the perfect example of why it's a bad idea to start airing a TV series where the writers(seemingly) have no idea where the plot eventually will go. I remember how the final supposedly split the fanbase in two, and I guess it's sort of true. You had the sensible people, who felt cheated. And then you had the people in denial, who had enjoyed the journey too much to let such a silly thing like "poor ending" sway their opinion. At first, I was somewhere in between. I felt cheated, but I felt ashamed to admit it because I had been so invested. Now that I've seen things like GoT, HoC, Breaking Bad, True Detective(season 1) etc, I definitely feel utterly cheated.
Lost will forever be the perfect example of why it's a bad idea to start airing a TV series where the writers(seemingly) have no idea where the plot eventually will go. I remember how the final supposedly split the fanbase in two, and I guess it's sort of true. You had the sensible people, who felt cheated. And then you had the people in denial, who had enjoyed the journey too much to let such a silly thing like "poor ending" sway their opinion. At first, I was somewhere in between. I felt cheated, but I felt ashamed to admit it because I had been so invested. Now that I've seen things like GoT, HoC, Breaking Bad, True Detective(season 1) etc, I definitely feel utterly cheated.
I'm convinced that's exactly what got happened. They were rumbled pretty early on and wrote themselves into a corner. They completely lost the plot in the last two series but that they were able to keep people watching would still qualify it as good writing for my money.
But that's just not how TV works. The Breaking Bad writers didn't know where they were going:
On how Lydia became the ricin target
“The writers and I all subscribe to the dramatic philosophy of playwright Chekhov, who said that if you establish a gun in Act 1, you better have it get fired at somebody by Act 3. We knew that ricin was still out there and we knew it was hidden behind the wall outlet in the old White house bedroom. I guess we could have let it slide, but we thought to ourselves, ‘The audience has been real good to us, they’ve paid very close attention, we want to reward them by not leaving any loose ends here.’ And also, honestly, the actress who plays Lydia [Laura Fraser] is a wonderful, warm, sweet person but the chatacter of Lydia – we were all champing at the bit to see her get her just desserts much more than Todd even. Todd is so likable, you almost have these ambivalent feelings when he’s being choked to death. But Lydia? We were all of one mind when we were saying, ‘Oh man, she’s got to go.’
They almost had Skyler kill herself.
“We talked about a possible version where Skyler and Walt were holed up in some Motel 6 or someplace, and he’s talking to her, she’s in the bathroom and he’s saying to her, ‘It’s going to be alright, it’s gonna be okay, I’ve got a plan. Skyler? Skyler?’ And he forces the door open and she’s in a bloody tub or something like that, having opened up a wrist ... It was very dark.”
Walt Jr. was almost killed in Season 2.
“Walt is so filled with rage [at] the drug dealer who kills Jesse that he’s out for revenge. And he takes it very personally ... Walt gets this guy and chloroforms him or something, and installs him in some basement somewhere” to torture him, with a shotgun and trip wire to give the bad guy the option to kill himself, Gilligan described, before mentioning that this was before he had a writing staff and that everyone who heard this idea was thoroughly horrified. “Walter Jr. was gonna somehow stumble into this place ... and Walt Jr. being a sweet character, was going to try to help him ... and somehow this guy’s eyes flicker open and somehow he realizes it’s Walter’s son, and then and only then does he trip the wire and kill both of them.”
The Machine Gun.
Gilligan said they didn’t know what they were going to do with the M60 machine gun they introduced in beginning of Season 5. The writers debated having Walter go out like Scarface, using it either against the cops or in a prison-break to free Jesse.
“You’re planting your flag at that point ... You plant that gun, you show the gun to the audience in Act 1, you gotta fire it by Act 3 ... We were planting our flag, we were saying, you know what, an M60 machine gun, Rambo’s machine gun, something cool has to happen with that. We’ll figure it out later.”
“Who does he use it on was the first obvious question. And at that point, we didn’t have Uncle Jack yet ... we hadn’t thought of him yet, and Kenny and Todd, we didn’t have any of those guys ... We knew there’d be a bunch of bad guys.
“Our original version was that Walt would use it in somewhat Rambo fashion, handheld, mowing down a bunch of guys. But the closer we got to the end, and we realized Walt’s cancer would resurface and we realized how sick he would be, that felt wrong to go brawns over brain, go out like Rambo. On his best day, Walt was never Rambo. So very late in the game we came up with mounting it in the trunk and using the garage door motor as a way of sweeping it back and forth, and automating the process. Because everyone, including me, loved those moments when Walt was MacGyver-esque.”
At one point, Gilligan and his writers got to thinking that it might be too obvious to have Walt use the gun on a bunch of bad guys, and considered that he might shoot up a police station, or a jail, to set Jesse free.
“We had versions that we talked about, for instance, where the police are coming to get him and he uses it on the police, but we didn’t like that, it that didn’t seem right. We had a version where he goes and breaks Jesse out of jail just as the Nazis are going to knock Jesse off in jail, and he comes in and uses an M60 to lay waste to an entire prison or prison bus ... So we had every version of this. I’m not saying we got far with those, but we would talk them through for hours on end ... But we were like, You know what? As bad as Walt is, we don’t want to see him killing good guys. If he’s gonna use this M60, even if it’s slightly less surprising, let’s see him use it on guys that are worse than he is.”
“The writers and I all subscribe to the dramatic philosophy of playwright Chekhov, who said that if you establish a gun in Act 1, you better have it get fired at somebody by Act 3. We knew that ricin was still out there and we knew it was hidden behind the wall outlet in the old White house bedroom. I guess we could have let it slide, but we thought to ourselves, ‘The audience has been real good to us, they’ve paid very close attention, we want to reward them by not leaving any loose ends here.’ And also, honestly, the actress who plays Lydia [Laura Fraser] is a wonderful, warm, sweet person but the chatacter of Lydia – we were all champing at the bit to see her get her just desserts much more than Todd even. Todd is so likable, you almost have these ambivalent feelings when he’s being choked to death. But Lydia? We were all of one mind when we were saying, ‘Oh man, she’s got to go.’
They almost had Skyler kill herself.
“We talked about a possible version where Skyler and Walt were holed up in some Motel 6 or someplace, and he’s talking to her, she’s in the bathroom and he’s saying to her, ‘It’s going to be alright, it’s gonna be okay, I’ve got a plan. Skyler? Skyler?’ And he forces the door open and she’s in a bloody tub or something like that, having opened up a wrist ... It was very dark.”
Walt Jr. was almost killed in Season 2.
“Walt is so filled with rage [at] the drug dealer who kills Jesse that he’s out for revenge. And he takes it very personally ... Walt gets this guy and chloroforms him or something, and installs him in some basement somewhere” to torture him, with a shotgun and trip wire to give the bad guy the option to kill himself, Gilligan described, before mentioning that this was before he had a writing staff and that everyone who heard this idea was thoroughly horrified. “Walter Jr. was gonna somehow stumble into this place ... and Walt Jr. being a sweet character, was going to try to help him ... and somehow this guy’s eyes flicker open and somehow he realizes it’s Walter’s son, and then and only then does he trip the wire and kill both of them.”
The Machine Gun.
Gilligan said they didn’t know what they were going to do with the M60 machine gun they introduced in beginning of Season 5. The writers debated having Walter go out like Scarface, using it either against the cops or in a prison-break to free Jesse.
“You’re planting your flag at that point ... You plant that gun, you show the gun to the audience in Act 1, you gotta fire it by Act 3 ... We were planting our flag, we were saying, you know what, an M60 machine gun, Rambo’s machine gun, something cool has to happen with that. We’ll figure it out later.”
“Who does he use it on was the first obvious question. And at that point, we didn’t have Uncle Jack yet ... we hadn’t thought of him yet, and Kenny and Todd, we didn’t have any of those guys ... We knew there’d be a bunch of bad guys.
“Our original version was that Walt would use it in somewhat Rambo fashion, handheld, mowing down a bunch of guys. But the closer we got to the end, and we realized Walt’s cancer would resurface and we realized how sick he would be, that felt wrong to go brawns over brain, go out like Rambo. On his best day, Walt was never Rambo. So very late in the game we came up with mounting it in the trunk and using the garage door motor as a way of sweeping it back and forth, and automating the process. Because everyone, including me, loved those moments when Walt was MacGyver-esque.”
At one point, Gilligan and his writers got to thinking that it might be too obvious to have Walt use the gun on a bunch of bad guys, and considered that he might shoot up a police station, or a jail, to set Jesse free.
“We had versions that we talked about, for instance, where the police are coming to get him and he uses it on the police, but we didn’t like that, it that didn’t seem right. We had a version where he goes and breaks Jesse out of jail just as the Nazis are going to knock Jesse off in jail, and he comes in and uses an M60 to lay waste to an entire prison or prison bus ... So we had every version of this. I’m not saying we got far with those, but we would talk them through for hours on end ... But we were like, You know what? As bad as Walt is, we don’t want to see him killing good guys. If he’s gonna use this M60, even if it’s slightly less surprising, let’s see him use it on guys that are worse than he is.”
I do agree that good TV turns to bad TV when writers can't get out of the corners they put themselves into.
But I honestly think the mistake the LOST writers made was trying to please the fans. Back then there were all these theories about LOST; the main two being that it was all about time travel (added in but was almost completely pointless) and that they were all dead the whole time (half added in; they were all dead the whole final season).
Okay, maybe the writers didn't take from the fans that the smoke monster was Locke for much of a season or Jacob and MIB were two gods battling it out for some reason, and I dont think those were great ideas either... but I honestly think had the writers/creators stuck to their guns more, the show would have been a master piece.
That and the writers strike. Damn that hurt it
Oh I'm aware of this, but sometimes it's more obvious.
Breaking Bad for instance, could just as well have been based on books or comics. That's just not the case with Lost. With Lost, you just know that the writers were panicking behind the scenes, not knowing what the feck to do with all the mysteries.
Yeah. I do agree
Desmond said that so Charlie would continue on his correct path by thinking Claire would be safe
Adore this show. It was the first one I ever properly watched and I loved it. Need a rewatch at some point. The characters were amazingly well done and it had some jaw dropping moments.
I'd watch an episode and think "Yeah, I know what's going on now". I'd watch the next episode and it would turn my opinion right on its head. I was convinced that it was purgatory, that Ben was a demon of some kind, who was there to tempt the characters into continuing with the same behaviour that got them there in the first place (eg: Saeed, for all his desire to leave his past behind, always ended up torturing or killing someone). The smoke monster was obviously the devil, and he couldn't manifest on the island as himself, so was either black smoke or he had to take over someone's body. The 'others' were angels and were there to try to get the characters to make different choices, thus leaving the island. I was sure that anyone who died in the show was someone who just couldn't change their ways and had gone to hell (eg: the two who were buried alive because they were still obsessed with stealing even though they were on a desert island), or had changed their ways and had gone to heaven (Boone fitted the bill for me).
Then I'd do a 180 and think Ben was actually a good guy, the smoke monster was god, the 'others' were fallen angels and that the characters were there, not to change their behaviour, but to carry on with it, but to use their traits to benefit their fellow survivors instead of themselves (as they had done whilst alive).
Then I finished season 6, read that the writers didn't mean for it to be purgatory after all, that all my theories were bullshit, and thought "go f*ck yourselves, you c*nts!"
Then I'd do a 180 and think Ben was actually a good guy, the smoke monster was god, the 'others' were fallen angels and that the characters were there, not to change their behaviour, but to carry on with it, but to use their traits to benefit their fellow survivors instead of themselves (as they had done whilst alive).
Then I finished season 6, read that the writers didn't mean for it to be purgatory after all, that all my theories were bullshit, and thought "go f*ck yourselves, you c*nts!"
Loved Lost, even when it lost (no pun intended) its way a bit.
Currently watching Josh Holloway in Colony but he'll always be Sawyer.
Currently watching Josh Holloway in Colony but he'll always be Sawyer.
But. Why? Up until that point they had been saving Charlies life over and over. Next thing you know Desmond is manipulating Charlie to his death (bit harsh) by a promise that doesn't happen
Because he thought that was the only way they were going to get rescued
Hmm
Dont over think it guys, cos the writers surely didnt
I did the same but went to work straight after.
I did the same but went to work straight after.
Just getting the other half in to this, she had never seen it.
Can't believe I was 11 when I watched the show first air..
Anyway what was the deal with this in the end? Was it confirmed as purgatory?
What was John locke significance in the end? Even in episode one he shows Walt blackgammon and refers to a light and dark side
Can't believe I was 11 when I watched the show first air..
Anyway what was the deal with this in the end? Was it confirmed as purgatory?
What was John locke significance in the end? Even in episode one he shows Walt blackgammon and refers to a light and dark side
The alternate timeline in the final season was a purgatory, everything else happened.
Locke was a pawn in the never ending war between the light and dark. The MIB used Locke as a tool to manipulate Ben into killing his brother Jacob because he couldn't do it himself. He wanted Jacob dead because he(MIB) couldn't escape the island while there was a Protector of the Island(Jacob, later Jack, then Hurley) still alive.
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People were taken for a terrible ride, JJ proved he was done with television
Lol, sorry that just tickled me for some reason.
As much as many of the loose ends were tied off in this, it still always felt a bit like they were chasing their own plot tails. I can imagine the writers room before each season, and them just being like, 'right, how the feck do we sort this lot out' and then there always being this mischievous writer that would add a few new totally unsolvable threads in there.
I remember being absolutely fascinated with the bunker, the numbers, Desmond - That whole part of the show was amazing.
Jack & Kate, Hurley, Sayeed, Sawyer - Immense characters!
Jack & Kate, Hurley, Sayeed, Sawyer - Immense characters!
Up there with Game of Thrones in terms of superbly written characters and acting.