Since when did anything on the island work like it does in real life? Electromagnetism was referenced plenty of times throughout the show and it made the same noises as it did where we've seen it before. The light from the frozen donkey wheel was the same. Ben said it was located above a pocket of electromagnetic energy, it's the same thing as the light.
Television Lost: The Final Season
- Thread starter The Flying Potato
- Start date
You know the stuff that happened on the island wasn't purgatory though right?
I've got no complaints with it - enough of it tied up for me and I enjoyed watching the episodes, the character developments, the twists and the WTF moments without being overly bothered about whether everything was 100% congruent. I'm not overly critical, and not being into telly much anyway, I only watch the odd thing purely for entertainment. I actually seek things out which aren't too interlectual due to having a job which hurts my brain most of the time. So I'm glad I've sat through 6 series, I may watch them again sometime, and overall I think it's been great.
Say what? Perhaps they should have brought that up during the first 5 seasons of the show. Oh, we saw some dead people, but mainly they turned out to be Smokey in disguise.
Yep I gathered that from this thread
Hence I think the impression I would get from merely watching the parts I have is better than what others have now seen
There's been dead people throughout the series, not all of them smokie.
I've spoken to quite a few people who are under the impression that the island stuff didn't actually happen and they all died in the plane crash.
.....how the feck can anyone draw that conclusion from the ending? It was clear enough to me.
.....how the feck can anyone draw that conclusion from the ending? It was clear enough to me.
I can't believe some people enjoyed this episode as a stand-alone as there were so many gaping errors that it was unbelievable.
Kate got shot in the shoulder but happily swam to that boat.
Lapidus was fixing the plane. But there was no way that plane could have taken off the way it did. And a minor point but cabin pressure?
How in hell did Jack end up out of the cave after he turned on the island again? He should've been toast.
What was with Charlie's 'awakening'? Wasn't he the one telling Desmond at the beginning of the season about the whole experience?
Wtf happened to Desmond when they pulled him out?
All of this 'it's supposed to be you' got on my balls because it was never really explained why.
The relgious ending was a massive disappointment.
Barely any island mysteries were solved.
Shambles.
Kate got shot in the shoulder but happily swam to that boat.
Lapidus was fixing the plane. But there was no way that plane could have taken off the way it did. And a minor point but cabin pressure?
How in hell did Jack end up out of the cave after he turned on the island again? He should've been toast.
What was with Charlie's 'awakening'? Wasn't he the one telling Desmond at the beginning of the season about the whole experience?
Wtf happened to Desmond when they pulled him out?
All of this 'it's supposed to be you' got on my balls because it was never really explained why.
The relgious ending was a massive disappointment.
Barely any island mysteries were solved.
Shambles.
Waaaaah!
You're getting very defensive, Solius. Like a father who's just been told by the doctor that his child is mentally retarded. And ugly.
I'm fecking with him 
He can think what he likes.
He can think what he likes.Even so, you're sounding like my dad.
So... what did happen to Desmond?
I'm guessing Hurley let him use the sailboat to leave the island and get back with Penny.
People on the island seem to get healed very quick. Locke Could suddenly walk again and Rose's cancer got cured. So a gun shot wound is nothing.
Yes it could and the cabin pressure is only a major effect up really high, he can keep it below a certain height and not overly worry. He'd freeze his bollocks off though.
Same way the smoke monsters body did.
He told Desmond that he felt he was leading a false life and didn't quite understand the things he saw. It took Kate a few goes and Jack took forever. It didn't nes' happen all at once and Claire and Aaron was his catalyst
He was injured from all the falling rocks and heat, hence the blood and burns. After that Hurley looked after him.
Waaah!
See now this si what annoys me, people complain about things that they are unsure of, they are then given an answer but they dont like the answer (even though its the best and most likely answer around) so they continue to moan about it.
Its as if theyll just dismiss an answer just so they can continue to bitch about itSee now this si what annoys me, people complain about things that they are unsure of, they are then given an answer but they dont like the answer (even though its the best and most likely answer around) so they continue to moan about it.
Pretty much the same for the whole series of Lost. The answer was religion and the afterlife. People don't like it though.
Found something interesting from season 3 (Eko) at the Lostpedia forum which possibly hints to the FSW ending of the final.
"After Eko dies we can see Eko walking with Yemi when they were kids.
He found redemption and went to the afterlife, hinting us that when we die we
go to a happy place we create."
He found redemption and went to the afterlife, hinting us that when we die we
go to a happy place we create."
Found out something else about eko too. His absence in the FS was because they offered him a fairly large sum of money and he demand it x5.
Erm...but that wasn't the question was it?
They threw that in there at the end. At what point during the other 5 seasons was religion or the afterlife ever a major factor. Other than dead people showing up...which doesn't imply either.
That's like saying..."the answer was fish, but people don't like it....pah!...Idiots"
eh?
The fact that religion in the real world is basically the cop out way of explaining anything actually makes a whole lot of sense that it would be the cop out way of explaining everything here....it would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.
Nothing like that at all. I think the dead people returning kind of hinted at the afterlife. Religous connotations were all the way through from the numbers, to the temples.
This thread is one big mindfeck.. can someone try to give a simple explanation as to what actually was going on in that island?
You keep saying this as if it did something wrong yet if you look at the religious influences in it the same way as you would the Tri force in Zelda. then it works fine. The original Clash of the Titans was great, it had the hero been given cop out gifts from the gods. To me Lost just did the same. Their religious aspects were already there. There was a giant frigging Statue of Tharawet. Egyptian Hieroglyphs etc.
"There are no answers only more questions."
I just watched S1 EP1 on the way home.
When Jack, Kate and Charlie go to investigate the cockpit of the plane they are chased by Smokey. Once Charlie falls down, Jack runs to save him, then it looks like Smokey leaves them alone and fecks off. Obviously Smokey could not kill a candidate, so maybe the writers had this planned all along? Or is it just coincidence that Smokey leaves Jack alone?
When Jack, Kate and Charlie go to investigate the cockpit of the plane they are chased by Smokey. Once Charlie falls down, Jack runs to save him, then it looks like Smokey leaves them alone and fecks off. Obviously Smokey could not kill a candidate, so maybe the writers had this planned all along? Or is it just coincidence that Smokey leaves Jack alone?
I think they just made it fit.
What questions are you asking yourself that the answer is religion and the afterlife?
The Island is religion?... made up and full of vague tribal nonsense that people want to just accept uncritically?
Hmmm...good call.
The numbers weren't anything religious...in fact the way they tried to explain them was very (psuedo) scientific - an equation.
Dead people hinted at a life after life, but not THE afterlife...if anything it hinted that there wasn't one since they were all wandering around the Island...another reason why this purgatory seems to have been tacked on.
If you took from it that the Island was a metaphor for, or microcosm of belief, then you could make a case for it I suppose. But it'd still be your interpretation rather than an answer.
It would explain why I hated Across the Sea so much if that turned out to be the case. Since before the religious aspect became clear, I simply didn't understand how MIB was supposed to be the bad guy for wanting to know perfectly legitimate things, and discover, innovate and explore whilst his simpleton brother was the good guy for being an idiot and believing whatever shit he was told. Jacob probably killed more people with his good intentions than Smokey did with his anger...but hey, Jacob believed in the light, so it was aaaalll goood. That jarred horribly with me, but presumably wouldn't with someone with a propensity to believe in religion.
If that is what it was, then I'm legitimately less impressed by their bizarre view of human rightiousness.
I don't think it is though...I think it's just deliberately vague because they didn't have a clue what to do after all the stuff they'd throw at the Island over the years and so...well...let it fizzle out and then distracted everyone with a nice fluffy afterlife ending.
You keep saying this as if it did something right..
As I said earlier about Ashes 2 Ashes, if the explanation to what the Island was was Purgatory all along, that would've been far more satisfactory. It wasn't the "religion" bit that actually annoyed me. It was that it wasn't the answer to anything we'd cared about. In the end the island story became so muddled, so full of shit they threw in their for interests sake that by the end of it they just made up something incredibly wishy washy and vague to make some kind of cop out token all encompassing answer, and then threw religion and purgatory into the flash sideways world to explain that and distract everyone.
I'm annoyed by the cop out of answering anything well (in terms of story, logistics, continuity, well planned drama etc ) ON the Island...things like the rules etc....I'm not actually bothered by the Afterlife bit. That was alright.Just also completely irrelevant to the rest of the series.
What does the Statue of Tawret have to do with the Flashsideways story line?...nothing. So it's big reveal as Purgtory has nothing to do with anything that happend on the Island, and all the things we've been interested in for 6 years. It was a misdirection.
"Isn't it nice they're all back together, it was all about them anyway...just forget about all the things we made important on the Island and the rules and Widmore and all that...we have"
Great!
I could be wrong, but didn't they bring a certain element of religion into the theme of the show somewhere around mid-Season 2, when they introduced Mr. Eko? They built a church on the island and he later saw his brother yemi, who offered him a chance to apologise for his sins or whatever. I'm pretty sure Mr. Eko was supposed to be very much a big part of the future of the show until he was kicked off.
Then you had the four-toed statue, which was built to worship some ancient God. The statue was first shown in the Finale of Season 2.
Then you had the four-toed statue, which was built to worship some ancient God. The statue was first shown in the Finale of Season 2.
Yeah, I read that on wiki afterwards.
I don't remember everything, weather Yemi showed up earlier, but MiB took the form of Yemi at the end before Eko was killed.
Eko was trying to justify the man he killed when he was a kid (to save his brother) and then Yemi/MiB replied: "You speak to me as if I'm your brother.."
then he walked of into the jungle, and the black smoke appeared and killed Eko.
Firstly, the talk about characters being prime and mystery second is fine. But now to make it out like the latter did not matter is bullshit. I was one of those actually, who was more fascinated by the character stories in S1 instead of all smoke and hatch stuff. But they definitely emphaised more on mysteries in between S3 and S5. After pulling off stunts like moving the island, using a statue to wow people, someone like Eloise fecking with Desmond, Richard being ageless etc etc. You can not just say na na na na..we never wanted you to focus on all this stuff, it was all about who Kate chooses.
I have already said I do not care about questions like what is the island? Where is it? etc. I am alright with creators making rules for their own mystery and leaving some big stuff vague.
I am also happy to admit that being an atheist, leads me to have a problem with afterlife stuff. I understand if others do not.
BUT what is not acceptable is that they-
1- Do not show consistency with the rules of the mystery they created. You say light is electromagnetic energy. Ok. I even buy their hypothesis about Desmond being special and able to survive an do some stuff in this type of light. But Jack was never shown to be like that. So No, I am not going to magically make some story how he survived it in the end. At least show me something in the past that would hint towards him surviving something like that.
2- abandon important links to mysteries like the cabin. This was the first place we saw either Jacob or Smokes. They never even explained who actually was in there and why.
3- contradict motives of some of the main people like Jacob and MIB. S6 theme- MIB has to kill all the candidates to finally get off the island, if MIB leaves something really bad happens. Then, oh we do not actually know if something bad would happen if he leaves or not. And then again, let us just forget about all this talk of killing all the candidates, Desmond ..Desmond..Desmond. He is the key now. Basically whatever that happened on the island in first 13 or so episodes of S6, did not matter in the end.
4- characters are everything, are they? Michael kills Libby and Anna, achieves redemption by killing himself to save some people but is stuck in the island. Sayid kills Dogen, someone else, redemption- ends up in sideways. Keamy of all people is there. I should also put this down to things we can not understand. Sounds pretty neat actually, classify all hundred or so plot holes and absurdities as stuff they did not have to explain.
This is not nit picking, I can go and list 20 stuff life that from the top of my head. The stuff like Walt, Dharma food drop, fertility issue, out rigger shoot out could even reach 100.
Lastly, all the talk about not answering difficult question and leaving open answers is also bullshit.
If they wanted something like that they would have never shown any ghosts on the island. It would have been cooler to let people to ponder if Christian Shepherd was a ghost. No need to show someone like Jacob or explain Smokey fully, let people theorize about their existance or non-existance. That would have be miles better than half baked storylines like ATS which are not even worthy of being a book for 5 year olds. "You can not kill each other because I have made it so". Really? And I am supposed to find this deep mythological and philosophical? Sorry I am not that dumb.
The rules were created by smoky whilst he was influencing the others. Jacob fecked up a lot. He kept bringing these candidates there that he was viewing and keeping them alive by the rule of smokey couldn't kill them. Once they were on the island it was down to smokey to corrupt them. Jacob using the power he had kept them all alive until their job was done. Including Widmore doing his job of driving Desmond to the island more than once. After he fulfilled his role he died. Where a lot of the confusion lies is in Smokey spent the majority of it telling them all what to do whilst pretending to be Jacob. Just as he manipulated the majority of them when he was Flocke.
What does Tawret have to do with the afterlife. She is a religious symbol of a culture that believed in the afterlife, a hell of a lot, that they built giant pyramids and made huge temples to worship their gods and their dead who they believed rose to god-hood. Theres something I read somewhere she was the the egyptian equivalent of the patron saint of pregnancy and all who dwell in her presence were gurateeed a full term. The destruction of the statue maybe explaining why people couldn't have babies on the island.
What the actual Island was, who knows all we do know is that it has a unique electromagnetic field that knocks it out of sync with time to keep it hidden, that also creates evil smoke monsters when they are exposed to it's core and it's water that seems to be related to the waters in the temple where the samurai was living can heal the fataly wounded but it causes a darkness to dwell in them. It also cures diseases and handicaps. The island also seems to be a break in the spiritual world with the dead are seemingly able to return to the living. It's about religion and the afterlife, no specific religion, no rules, no do this and do that. Just you'll make your own afterlife based on your actions in this one. Something that all religions the world over share.
Take Hurley, everyone thought he was crazy because he was seeing things when in fact in this shows reality he was able to converse with the dead.
Why would Smokey appear to Michael on the boat and How?
Why would he tell Locke to bring everyone back to the island when it is better for him to keep candidates away?
Is it not easier to fool someone in killing Locke on the island and then take up his form..rather than the whole fiasco he pulled?
I do not care if they do not properly explain what smokey is but as soon as they portrayed him as a person with motives, they had to explain them properly, instead of hatching up some half baked scheme that could wow users.
For me a lot of it was answered.
Ok then that makes this a bit easier
Fair enough but if you think of the fact it's religious stuff in a fantasy science fiction show and not a factual documentary. In other words its not real it's a fantasy show.
Secondly it was some mystical elctro magnetic energy. In a fantasy show about dead people returning, time jumping and the afterlife it doesn't have to be one or the other. Jack at the time when it was turned back on was still Jacobs heir it was only through his death it passed to his candidate Hurley. He didn't survive that long afterwards though.
It was smokey. It was his house.
Imagine a creature that could impersonate dead people, manipulate and kill without remorse that was indestructable. Would you want that walking around the earth. Desmond was the key in that he could enter the light and survive it enough to do the job of turning it off rendering smokey mortal.
That was a purgatory created by them that they all shared. In it Keamy was a villain, who was killed. They were the people taht were all important to each other during th most important itme in their life. Michael wasn't invited to join them basically. Your putting things down as ifthere are rules for getting to the shows afterlife. Ben was there and they let him be there and he did a lot worse things then Keamy ever did.
Got to admit the Dharma food drop one has me completly stumped. Walt to me was just like Hurley, where as Hurley could chat to dead people Walt could forsee the future. Not clearly though.
To me it was answered. The only bits i didn't think we got a clear answer on was what was the island and what its power properly. But as you said they are allowed their own vague plot.
No your meant to find it a plot device on an entertainment show based in the realms of fantasy and not reality.
How did Smoky get to Hydra island if he's not allowed to leave the main island I guess it was near enough. if it was smoky?
Because smoky needed to get the candidates in one place to kill them all and Jacob needed one of them to choose to be his heir and do the ceremony, on the island.
Who would you trust more Locke telling you to come back to the island or Ben.
He was trapped there and wanted to leave the island even before he became smokey. It was just more imperative to make sure that he never leaved with the powers he had.
No, but Religion is on the island and yes it is vague tribal bullshit just as it is now in real life. The afterlife, life and death are the common theme in all religions. It's the all the other stuff they wrap around it thats different.
Numerolgy explained as science heard that from a numerolgist before. He was talking cack to.
No I took it that the island was this incredible place that these miracles happened and that the dead could come back briefly through some weird not explained connection. Very much like religion.
To me Jacob was far from good and deserved everything he got. He killed all those people because he never had the stones to kill his brother himself. I never looked on it as because he was protecting the light he was good. He came across to me as a right evil uncaring twat. I actually had more sympathy for MIB but as I said, would you want someone with smokeys ability running around mankind.
The afterlife stuff was regardless of smokey and Jacob, at no point did I ever feel they were saying be good like Jacob or else etc. As I said he came across as a callous twat. As for the writing I reckon they knew the beginning and the end then Abrams let them write themselves into corners each series to see how they'd get out of it. The core thing of afterlife, death and religion (I'm not talking about religious acts etc and being one with god and all that bullshit, just religion for what it is, a load of crap that makes great mythology) scinece, fate and destiny etc were constant.
Was it? Answer all the time travel stuff then ...
As it is with regards to time travel in S5. No one knows why-
* Survivors were flashing through time, others were not
* Why Cindy and kids did not flash through time
* Claire? Did she flash through as well? I don't think she did. Why?
* Why did the freighter folks flash with survivors?
* Why Jack and co. ended up in 73. Why Sun did not?
* How did the nuke just flash them back? Infact why did not the fecking nuke kill them!
Again I can buy the premise of time travel but that does not meant any mumbo jumbo around that is ok. You have to have some kind of rules governing this kind of sci-fi device.
Wrong.
They never said Jacob or someone like him could survive. What they said is they do not go in because something terrible would happen and we see that happening to MIB when he turns to smoke.
Sorry, I am not going to imagine stuff myself to fill their mistakes.
Was it? I though they said he was trapped in there due to the ash surrounding it. They got someone to mention that it was broken and he got out. Smokey was always roaming about though. They fecked up somewhere there. How ben just randomly ended up there is also not to be explained. Neither how it moves about.
Smokey never did anything much worse than Jacobs others. They killed more people than him. No one knew what would happen if the light went out till the last 15 mins, Jack and Locke going on that joint mission made very little sense.
So Keamy was actually there summoned by them or they just imagined him? Were they imagining "together? I am sorry, I sound insane just asking such stuff.
Also wrong. Michael mentioned he was stuck on the island due to his bad deeds like many others. Survivors had no say in taking them along to another place, unless you want to imagine that as well. Sayid and Ben as you pointed out should have been stuck just like Michael.
Walt could tell future, I have no idea where you got that from.
What I would like to know is why he appeared before Locke and got him to kill Naomi. On that note, it was ok to murder her in cold blood.
PatheticWhat was answered? They though it was ridiculous to answer the origins of island, the need of a protector etc but ok to say there is a place such as afterlife. I find it hard to comprehend how someone can say that first is unanswerable but second is not. Note this is based on them using the copout- " you can not explain big mysteries of life so we can not answer big stuff:.
It fails as either. They incooperated too many genres into one and could not say true to either.
I honestly can't be arsed writng out another frigging essay tonight on it and with that I'm going to bed. We'll catch up tomorrow.