Television Lost: The Final Season

I don't want to get too down on it cos it's faults may well be addressed in the 2 and a half hour finale...but

if they aren't...I think the writers have mistaken the viewers willingness to accept people following mindless orders with vague and ominous promises of "danger" if they don't, under the assumption they'd be told why eventually by someone in ITK, with the willingness to accept people just following mindless orders with vague and ominous promises of "danger" if they don't full stop

From another thread...sort of sums it up;

So the Answers we got.

-Jacob and MiB are immortal because... their Mother let them be
-Jacob and MiB can't kill each other because... their Mother made them not be able to
-The source of the island's power is... a light
-This light is... a strange light with magical, unknown properties
-MiB became Smokey because... the light did it

Great!
 
Mockney said:
I don't want to get too down on it cos it's faults may well be addressed in the 2 and a half hour finale...but

if they aren't...I think the writers have mistaken the viewers willingness to accept people following mindless orders with vague and ominous promises of "danger" if they don't, under the assumption they'd be told why eventually by someone in ITK, with the willingness to accept people just following mindless orders with vague and ominous promises of "danger" if they don't full stop

From another thread...sort of sums it up;

So the Answers we got.

-Jacob and MiB are immortal because... their Mother let them be
-Jacob and MiB can't kill each other because... their Mother made them not be able to
-The source of the island's power is... a light
-This light is... a strange light with magical, unknown properties
-MiB became Smokey because... the light did it

Great!
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The stuff about MIB just knowing that putting the wheel in there to use light and water for moving the island and going away was hilarious. :lol::lol::lol: Mr. Einstein

They have left too many holes here, no way they will be able to fill them all in.

Remember the cabin? In which, supposedly MIB was trapped in. When did that happen then? And why? People still are not sure who was actually in there and how it was moving about.

Temple? Who made that and why again?

And when did the whole discussion between Jacob & Mib shit towards the nature of humanity. Their mother infact it seemed agreed with MIB while Jacob now in her role is doing the opposite and bring people here.
 
:lol: Brilliant.

But regarding the episode, even I was quite disapointed, had the potential to be something really great but overall was pretty average bar the ending which was brilliantly done and as the writers said a few years ago - proves they atleast had some sort of idea where they were going since S1 and wernt making it all up as they went along.
 
How the feck did the old hag fill that hole in and kill all the other faceless people then? She has some powers obviously. feck, I'm thinking I've wasted a lot of time on this.
 
The Flying Potato said:
proves they atleast had some sort of idea where they were going since S1 and wernt making it all up as they went along.
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Not really.
The idea to make The skeletons MIB and Mum could easily just have come before this season.

Grinner said:
How the feck did the old hag fill that hole in and kill all the other faceless people then? She has some powers obviously. feck, I'm thinking I've wasted a lot of time on this.
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Yeah, that had me baffled as well, I was half expecting her to be some kind of flame monster.
 
Top said:
Not really.
The idea to make The skeletons MIB and Mum could easily just have come before this season.
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But the point is they said themselves back in like Season 3 that the reveal of Adam and Eve would prove they knew where they were going so it was not a decision recently made in the slightest.
 
The Flying Potato said:
But the point is they said themselves back in like Season 3 that the reveal of Adam and Eve would prove they knew where they were going so it was not a decision recently made in the slightest.
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At that point people were starting to wonder if the creators were just making stuff up along the way, so to counter that they simply stated that Adam and Eve would prove they knew where they were going - they then had 3 seasons to come up with the proof.

I know I'm playing the devil's advocate, I just don't think this proves anything. In fact, I very much doubt they wanted Adam and Eve to be a mother and son back in season 1 or 3. It was just the best they could come up with at this point in the story.
 
The Flying Potato said:
But the point is they said themselves back in like Season 3 that the reveal of Adam and Eve would prove they knew where they were going so it was not a decision recently made in the slightest.
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Except that

In S1, Jack says Adam and Eve had been there for "40 or 50 years"....so, I'm afraid that looks like it's been made to fit.

I've read a few recent interviews where they both admit during season one they had no comprehension of MIB or Jacob or any of that shit. It's only around late S3 they started thinking about it properly.

Links to sources



and

Yet another Damon and Carlton Interview ;) | Lost Season 6
 
Regarding Adam and Eve, they said last season that it will prove the planned to incooperate time travel all along.
 
I think everyone's kind of touched on this already, especially Mockney, but even after a night of sleep this is still a big letdown for me. We're so close to the end that it's really not a time to ask more questions. It's the time to get questions answered, and the fact that they're not answering means that we're probably going to get a hastily wrapped set of answers in the few episodes we have left.

I wasn't watching when the original Adam and Eve thing happened, so I'm not familiar with how big a deal the mystery was, so it was more like they were parading that out to say "HEY LOOK! SEE? WE'RE WRAPPING UP PLOT HOLES!"
 
It was, to be honest, a fairly minor mystery. It was nicely done I think...but in the scheme of things, very very minor.

Still, my major problem is still the promotion of obedience and subservience over inquisitiveness and discovery.

I'm gonna quickly watch it again now before Fulham are on to see how I react this time. I'm also gonna have some chicken.
 
They were never going to get the plot and storyline right, but they could've at least sorted Good vs Evil in a more coherent way. I don't know how I want it to end. I want MIB to get off the island now, but he just killed some people I've known for 5 seasons.
 
This episode did seem to suggest that MIB was the good guy, almost certainly unintentionally. He was just trying to get off the island. The "mother" killed his actual mother, stole him from his people and lied to them about their existence, for crying out loud.

That's it, from now on I'm cheering for Smokey. Jacob is just a smug twat, really.
 
Am I the only one who saw the whole 'light' thing as them just not knowing what electromagnetism was back then? We know the island has massive pockets of it all over it, I'm thinking that was the core, where all the electromagnetism begins. However because this is yonks ago before electricity or anything was discovered, I interpreted it as the Mother thinking it was just a light, or magic. People believed in all sorts back then.

The episode was a bit meh though, it didn't really change anything with regards to the survivors storyline. It was nice to get some background, the birth of the smoke monster, how the donkey wheel came about (or didn't), Adam & Eve. I'm glad we got those answers, but it did feel like a waste of precious Lost time 2 episodes before the end. As Mockney said it felt like the first hour of a two hour episode.

As for that video Mockney posted :lol: fecking quality, I burst out laughing when Welliver goes 'Connect Four million!".
 
Woman must be an original smokey since she was able to confer immortality on the boys just like Locke did with Richard, and she was able to fill in the hole and kill all those faceless villagers. She tricked Jacob into killing his bro so that he would take over from her and she could be released from her obligation. Maybe the light nonsense is just to sweeten the pot and isn't really significant. She was also killed by the same dagger that ninja said would kill Flocke.
 
niMic said:
This episode did seem to suggest that MIB was the good guy, almost certainly unintentionally. He was just trying to get off the island. The "mother" killed his actual mother, stole him from his people and lied to them about their existence, for crying out loud.

That's it, from now on I'm cheering for Smokey. Jacob is just a smug twat, really.
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This is the thing for me. I'm not completely sure that was unintentional, but I think it was certainly unintentional to make Jacob/Mother's side of the game seem so wrong and unsympathetic in the process. I think they've misread the audience's willingness to go along with the whole faith angel without giving us any actual reason for it. I think they might of assumed people would just go "yeah yeah I'm still with the faith in what I've got to do without being told thing" when in fact they're getting a little tired of it. Because if this is all Jacob was told when he "took over" it was nothing. He's essentially been a rubbish leader with no more idea of what he was doing or what was really going on any more than anyone else...all on the faith of the ramblings of an insane mother...and that's just a weird thing to imply at this point.

I don't think they realised just how sympathetic they made MIB's plight (if smokey is indeed still MIB.)

The reaction has been quite massively negative so far, certainly for a Lost ep. I'd be intereged to know what the writers think about that because it could simply just need more clarification...Then again, if it really does, it isn't particularly great writing
 
Grinner said:
Woman must be an original smokey since she was able to confer immortality on the boys just like Locke did with Richard, and she was able to fill in the hole and kill all those faceless villagers. She tricked Jacob into killing his bro so that he would take over from her and she could be released from her obligation. Maybe the light nonsense is just to sweeten the pot and isn't really significant. She was also killed by the same dagger that ninja said would kill Flocke.
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She said to jacob dont go into the cave / light because it was worse than death... and when MIB killed her she said thank you... so I think perhaps she went into the light and became a smokey type thing herself... thats how she clocked up the mine shaft and killed everybody


Im not sure what to make of the fact that MIB could see his real mums ghost but jacob couldnt... but I have a hunch that it may link into the fact that hugo can see ghosts but other people cant... not sure about why though but im guessing it might be explained before the end???
 
The Flying Potato said:
the ending which was brilliantly done and as the writers said a few years ago - proves they atleast had some sort of idea where they were going since S1 and wernt making it all up as they went along.
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No. It doesn't prove anything at all really. It felt forced and last minute imo.

They could have just as easily decided that one day before shooting since the reveal has no real long term implications.

And as Mockney said Jack saying they were 40 odd years old is a glaring oversight on their part. Unless they still somehow make it about timetravel and explain that somehow. I'm not holding my breath though.
 
My theory on it all.

Firstly, MiB and Jacob were never immortal to begin with, they were normal people, born of a normal mother. Jacob became immortal from whatever he drank.

Smokey is not MiB, and never was. Nothing special happened to MiB when he went into that cave, he died, and he stayed dead.

I think the smoke monster is just a representation of evil, something that was trapped in that cave by the light. MiB's entering of the cave allowed it to escape.

We all saw when we were first introduced to Jacob and Smokey, that Smokey was in the form of Jacobs brother. It's safe to assume that we'll see more Jacob and Smokey flashbacks.

gormless said:
So why was Jacob of leaving the island in order to see Jack, Hurley etc. whilst MIB was unable too?
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Also, my theory would probably explain this.
 
Man Utd Mrs said:
When Jacob throws his twin into the light he says "You want to leave this island ,Brother..?" , I'm thinking that Maybe Desmond will be the new Jacob and Jack will be his twin ....as "Brotha" is Desmonds saying...

:confused:
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No I think they made it pretty obvious that Jack will be the new Jacob. The Mother says 'I realise now it's supposed to be you' to Jacob. Sayid tells Jack 'it's supposed to be you' before he gets himself blown up. The names Jack and Jacob are so similar in the first place as well.

As soon as that 'light' thing came I just thought wtf is going on here. fecking light? Is that really it?

I'm also hating Jacob when he's clueless. Just comes across as a twat, how does he gain the information to become all knowledgeable later on!?

This episode's left wayy too many holes for my liking. While it was nice having some background, they should've made that episode longer, I was expecting it to end with Smokey standing behind Jacob in the shape of his brother and then the games would begin. Wait, I want to know what this new fecking game is as well.

I have not been bowled over by these last two episodes. Something good better happen.... pronto.
 
Watched it again...

The silly light was less annoying this time...It's just the hokey explanation that is so ridiculous. And I think there'll be more on who or what the mother was...she seemed a more complex character with more to her the second time round

Saddeningly though, I felt that the first 20 minutes was appallingly written when I watched it without being brought along by what was happening. Everyone speaks in completely unbelievable dialogue and none of their actions ring true....For example

The boy in black says things like: "I can leave...and one day I'll prove it"

No one would say one day I'll prove it, you'd just say "I'll prove it". That's a minor gripe obviously, but a good example of the kind thing that was rife in this episode...

He claims to not know what death is but hunts boars? What does he think happens to them?...then in the next few scenes he's agonising over his real mother being 'killed' by the fake mother...but he didn't even know what death was half an hour ago, and has had no one to properly explain it to him...Why would they even refer to the island as the island if it was all they believed there was? How would they know what men were if they'd never seen or knew of them since their mother had evidently never explained to them where they came from and stuff - ("I came from my mother" - "where is she?")

it honestly reads like it's been written by an adolescent some of that stuff....It feels knocked up quickly...which is so so weird coming from Damon & Carlton.

Also, Jacob acts like rain man throughout most of it...like a complete simpleton

If anything I like it slightly less now....The more I watch, the more weird shit I pick up on.

Really hoping the next episode makes up for it, or adresses some of it foibles...such a dissapointment at this late stage and in such an important episode.

I'm probably getting a bit too annoyed by it though...I should probably have a sandwhich
 
Mockers

What do you think of my whole 'them not knowing and thinking it was magic light when it's actually electromagnetism' idea?
 
plausible...Though that raises the question that if the characters didn't even know what it was..why the hell have they been ruining countless lives to protect it for centuries...?

I'm more annoyed by the fact these characters didn't actually really seem to know what is going on. The show is far more about the characters than the mythology, but these characters, Jacob especially at this stage, (and to a lesser extent Widmore, Hawking, Ben et all) simply have absolutely no clue. We'd laboured under the impression they did, and thus we accepted all the vagueness...But now?...It seems completely misplaced and on reflection they all seem like mad bastards...or even worse, religious loons

At this stage, still rooting for the mad people who absolutely feck up other characters lives by fearsomely adhearing to the protection of something they don't have a clue about seems silly...You'd think (or hope) that at some point someone would actually know what they were doing and why. Or that this episode would explain to us how this whole "protection" and "candidacy" malarky came about and why...Instead we got something incredibly vague and more destiny/faith stuff.....

Hence why I think a lot of people are now rooting for MIB, who was the only character in that episode who's plight people understood. Which I don't think Damon and Carlton expected. I think they thought we'd all just go.."Yeah, root for the magical island!! wooo!!"

I hope I'm proved wrong.
 
There does seem to have been a thing over the seasons where a person we think is powerful and knowledgeable ends up to know pretty much feck all. The whole 'Man Behind The Curtain' scenario. Ben started out looking like a pretty wise guy, a leader, and gradually he has become as clueless as the rest of us. Same with Alpert, he's been around for hundreds of years and acted all knowledgeable and that, and now (or a few eps back) he realized his whole life was pointless and he didn't know much at all. Now Jacob, who seemed to know everything that was going on, has come out of the latest episode looking just a clueless as everyone else.

The only people that seem to have any idea about what is going on are Eloise, MIB and maybe Widmore.
 
It also feels a bit like the writers are saying

Look, we threw in all this mythology stuff cos we thought it was cool...we don't actually really have much of a plan for it. It's basically just magic and stuff. It's far more about Jack and Kate and Sawyer...that's what matters, don't worry about the Island, there isn't really a good answer to that. It's light...that's the best we could do.

Which is fine..It's their perogative, but it feels like a bit of a jip at this point.
 
Solius said:
There does seem to have been a thing over the seasons where a person we think is powerful and knowledgeable ends up to know pretty much feck all. The whole 'Man Behind The Curtain' scenario. Ben started out looking like a pretty wise guy, a leader, and gradually he has become as clueless as the rest of us. Same with Alpert, he's been around for hundreds of years and acted all knowledgeable and that, and now (or a few eps back) he realized his whole life was pointless and he didn't know much at all. Now Jacob, who seemed to know everything that was going on, has come out of the latest episode looking just a clueless as everyone else.

The only people that seem to have any idea about what is going on are Eloise, MIB and maybe Widmore.
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Except Widmore said in one of the last eps, when Smokey asked him "do you know who I am?"..."a combination of ghost stories and sounds in the night"...

So clearly he doesn't know what Smokey or the Light really are...again, he's taking it on faith, or on something someone's told him...Everyone is. And that seems daft to me. And more and more like all that stuff was just Deus Ex Machina after Deus Ex Machina, designed solely to pit the characters in different situations where stuff would happen.

"So Widmore comes back, and does some stuff...why?...we don't really need to go into that, he just does. He knows some stuff, what exactly, I don't know. It helps get characters from a to b though at any rate."

If Jacob didn't know, and he's the guardian/big fish...and Widmore never met Jacob or MIB (and was essentially very small fry)..how would he actually know?

I think all the convolution is starting to come back to haunt them.

Again, I hope I'm wrong.
 
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