Television Lost: The Final Season

Mockney said:
It also feels a bit like the writers are saying

Look, we threw in all this mythology stuff cos we thought it was cool...we don't actually really have much of a plan for it. It's basically just magic and stuff. It's far more about Jack and Kate and Sawyer...that's what matters, don't worry about the Island, there isn't really a good answer to that. It's light...that's the best we could do.

Which is fine..It's their perogative, but it feels like a bit of a jip at this point.
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You know what? That's pretty much exactly what the creator of Battlestar Galactica said, when confronted with all his bullshit deus-ex machina. That it was really about the characters.

The Lost finale will have to be pretty fecking bad to ruin it as much for me as the BSG one did, but I don't like where this is going.
 
Question:

How did The Woman know that bad things would happen if a man ventured into the light cave? Considering the light disappeared as soon as someone entered, then smokey came out. Are we supposed to believe a smokey has been created before? If so, why didn't the light go out? If the light did go out, are we supposed to believe it recharged?
 
At this point, there's no point in asking too many questions - there's only a couple of hours left to answer all the questions (plus whatever extras the producers have been saving for the season DVD)
 
RedKnight said:
Question:

How did The Woman know that bad things would happen if a man ventured into the light cave? Considering the light disappeared as soon as someone entered, then smokey came out. Are we supposed to believe a smokey has been created before? If so, why didn't the light go out? If the light did go out, are we supposed to believe it recharged?
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I believe that Smokey already existed and didn't start with the woman. The woman was probably once chosen to protect the cave just like Jacob was. I think the light is going to be turn to be rather irrelevant in the scheme of things, or not explained too well at least

I don't think we'll find out the origin of Smokey, or where it all began and they'll just imply that the Good vs Evil thing on the island has always been there.
 
Why is Widmore so interested in the island? Is it on a "guardian" level or monetary gain level? Also in alternate reality when Eloise told Desmond he "wasn't ready yet" - ready for what? Looking after the island? Desmond can slip through time like Jacob - is this significant?

So many questions - so little time!
 
I think that the cave is a representation of the apple from Adam and Eve. Represents everything evil about people (7 sins?) masked as something good (light).

Largely agree though, it was a stupid episode because everything was starting to come together...now they have just added something new with a few episodes left and I doubt they will have time to answer it. Even though there is almost 4 hours of Lost left!
 
Man Utd Mrs said:
Why is Widmore so interested in the island? Is it on a "guardian" level or monetary gain level? Also in alternate reality when Eloise told Desmond he "wasn't ready yet" - ready for what? Looking after the island? Desmond can slip through time like Jacob - is this significant?

So many questions - so little time!
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Thats a good question.
I think that Eloise will feature in one of the next episodes. She seems to know quite a lot about everything. Maybe Alternate reality Desmond will go and find her again.
 
MIB definitely came out of the last episode as the good one. Not sure how he can be called evil incarnate now. Even if he became evil after entering the cave, I and lot of others will have some sympathy with him.

If it was not intended then it was one of the biggest goofs of all time IMO.
 
Regarding not revealing the name of MIB thing..

Makes no sense now.

Also how they went about it was wrong on so many levels. To have Jacob's name resonated throughout the episode and not his, made no sense other than to deliberately incite viewers. This is not a sitcom FFS
 
Found this somewhere spot on if you ask me. :D

LOST: So there's this Island, and it's special, see. Time travel, polar bears, whispers, smoke monsters...

ME: Tell me more.

LOST: Let's ask the Dharma Initiative! Mysterious group of scientists, led by Alvar Hanso, searching for some unfathomable secret, with all their cool, 1970s-era technology. Cool, right?

ME: Yes! But what is the secret they are after?

LOST: You should ask the Others, they know. The Others have been around forever. At first they looked like savages, but -- surprise! They have modern ways and means. New Otherton, Mittelos Biotech... yes, sir, the Others are where it's at. Ben is the leader and he knows everything.

ME: Great... so what does Ben know?

LOST: Huh? Ben? He's actually pretty in the dark. The real big dogs here are Widmore and Eloise! They have all the answers!

ME: Super. Let's have more Widmore and Eloise, then!

LOST: Sorry, no time for that. We're going back to the '70s, when the Dharma Initiative was still around. Neat, right?

ME: Very. So the Dharma Initiative, they were...

LOST: Uhhh... just some scientists, i guess. They wanted to harness the electromagnetic energy for research, time travel, that sort of thing. Anyway, they are scientists, based in Ann Arbor. That's about it.

ME: Oh.... so what about Alvar Hanso? He must have some grand design, right?

LOST: Who? Alvar what-now? Nah, look, i've just been messing with you. Let's cut to the chase, time is running out. It's all about Jacob and his brother, Smokey. They are immortal! They play an epic game! There are rules, candidates, loopholes! Everything that has happened so far is because of them! Jacob and Smokey!

ME: Great! Let's learn about them!
LOST: Well... Jacob is just doing what his mother told him to do. He doesn't know why, really. His mother's dead. Smokey wants to leave the Island. That's about it.

ME: That's it?

LOST: Well, there's this light, see, this golden light underground. It's all the goodness in the world. But it turns people bad. It kills you, or makes you live forever. Something. It must be forever guarded but never used. It's inside everyone but can't be touched. Light! Light! Pretty light!

ME: .....this is getting lame.
 
I wonder who the father of Jacob and MIB is?
Also ,In biblical terms Benjamin was Jacobs son....( this MUST have been mentioned before?)
Maybe MIB's name hasn't been revealed because he bears the same name as one of the Candidates or such?
 
crappycraperson said:
Found this somewhere spot on if you ask me. :D

LOST: So there's this Island, and it's special, see. Time travel, polar bears, whispers, smoke monsters...

ME: Tell me more.

LOST: Let's ask the Dharma Initiative! Mysterious group of scientists, led by Alvar Hanso, searching for some unfathomable secret, with all their cool, 1970s-era technology. Cool, right?

ME: Yes! But what is the secret they are after?

LOST: You should ask the Others, they know. The Others have been around forever. At first they looked like savages, but -- surprise! They have modern ways and means. New Otherton, Mittelos Biotech... yes, sir, the Others are where it's at. Ben is the leader and he knows everything.

ME: Great... so what does Ben know?

LOST: Huh? Ben? He's actually pretty in the dark. The real big dogs here are Widmore and Eloise! They have all the answers!

ME: Super. Let's have more Widmore and Eloise, then!

LOST: Sorry, no time for that. We're going back to the '70s, when the Dharma Initiative was still around. Neat, right?

ME: Very. So the Dharma Initiative, they were...

LOST: Uhhh... just some scientists, i guess. They wanted to harness the electromagnetic energy for research, time travel, that sort of thing. Anyway, they are scientists, based in Ann Arbor. That's about it.

ME: Oh.... so what about Alvar Hanso? He must have some grand design, right?

LOST: Who? Alvar what-now? Nah, look, i've just been messing with you. Let's cut to the chase, time is running out. It's all about Jacob and his brother, Smokey. They are immortal! They play an epic game! There are rules, candidates, loopholes! Everything that has happened so far is because of them! Jacob and Smokey!

ME: Great! Let's learn about them!
LOST: Well... Jacob is just doing what his mother told him to do. He doesn't know why, really. His mother's dead. Smokey wants to leave the Island. That's about it.

ME: That's it?

LOST: Well, there's this light, see, this golden light underground. It's all the goodness in the world. But it turns people bad. It kills you, or makes you live forever. Something. It must be forever guarded but never used. It's inside everyone but can't be touched. Light! Light! Pretty light!

ME: .....this is getting lame.
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:lol:

Nail. on. Head.
 
crappycraperson said:
Found this somewhere spot on if you ask me. :D

LOST: So there's this Island, and it's special, see. Time travel, polar bears, whispers, smoke monsters...

ME: Tell me more.

LOST: Let's ask the Dharma Initiative! Mysterious group of scientists, led by Alvar Hanso, searching for some unfathomable secret, with all their cool, 1970s-era technology. Cool, right?

ME: Yes! But what is the secret they are after?

LOST: You should ask the Others, they know. The Others have been around forever. At first they looked like savages, but -- surprise! They have modern ways and means. New Otherton, Mittelos Biotech... yes, sir, the Others are where it's at. Ben is the leader and he knows everything.

ME: Great... so what does Ben know?

LOST: Huh? Ben? He's actually pretty in the dark. The real big dogs here are Widmore and Eloise! They have all the answers!

ME: Super. Let's have more Widmore and Eloise, then!

LOST: Sorry, no time for that. We're going back to the '70s, when the Dharma Initiative was still around. Neat, right?

ME: Very. So the Dharma Initiative, they were...

LOST: Uhhh... just some scientists, i guess. They wanted to harness the electromagnetic energy for research, time travel, that sort of thing. Anyway, they are scientists, based in Ann Arbor. That's about it.

ME: Oh.... so what about Alvar Hanso? He must have some grand design, right?

LOST: Who? Alvar what-now? Nah, look, i've just been messing with you. Let's cut to the chase, time is running out. It's all about Jacob and his brother, Smokey. They are immortal! They play an epic game! There are rules, candidates, loopholes! Everything that has happened so far is because of them! Jacob and Smokey!

ME: Great! Let's learn about them!
LOST: Well... Jacob is just doing what his mother told him to do. He doesn't know why, really. His mother's dead. Smokey wants to leave the Island. That's about it.

ME: That's it?

LOST: Well, there's this light, see, this golden light underground. It's all the goodness in the world. But it turns people bad. It kills you, or makes you live forever. Something. It must be forever guarded but never used. It's inside everyone but can't be touched. Light! Light! Pretty light!

ME: .....this is getting lame.
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This pretty much sums up the problem with Lost. It's all build up with no pay-off, like a lapdance from the hottest woman on the planet who buggers off half way through.

God knows Carlton and Damon can build a mystery.. but they don't know how to resolve it. They tease you.. promise you answers... and fair enough it peaks your interest and gets you hooked, but they are only willing to explain so much which leaves most of it un-fulfilling. Have I enjoyed the Lost ride? Hell yes. Can I ever be bothered to watch it through again knowing what I know now? No. It lost it's rewatchability when it decided to focus more on the mysteries than the characters themselves which drove the show so well for the first couple of seasons.
 
A lot of people have now started talking about how a show like LOST does not need any answers at all.

I am sorry but that is complete horse shit. I recognise stories where sci-fi elements play up as a metaphor and are not integral to the plot. Watch the Russian movie, Stalker. Brilliant film all about a magical "Zone" which is never shown or explained except some vague stories about its powers. It was not about the mystery of zone but the motivations of people searching for it and other implications related to gaining something from it.

In LOST however, island and its mythology have time and time again has been used by writers to wow the audience. There would have been no need to show an episode like Across the sea whatsoever if the island mysteries were just a side show to character resolutions. Sun/Jin would not have been killed so tamely if it was more about them and not some smoke monster.

Also another big flaw is that the story has progressed in such a manner to deliberately avoid characters giving any answers. Juliet, an other, is with LOSTies and never discloses any secrets she may have learnt even after so much time.No body forced Ben to share all the stuff he knows like rules etc and even now when Richard is among them, nothing.

Then the fanbois eating everything up. Going on about how it is left ambigious and you are supposed to interpret things. Some sequence is ambiguous and open to interpretation if it is actually shown!!! Then there can be talk of double meaning and other stuff like the first featured convo between Jacob and MIB. I am not going to start imagining my own story to fill up the gaps, that is ridiculous.

Why should I have to ponder if Mother was smoke monster or not? What purpose does that fulfill? Not showing how she killed all those men and filled the well does not make the story complex and thought provoking. Showing how she did it and letting the audience debate the reasons behind it, does.
 
I dont think anyone is complaining that you don't need answers, rather that the moaning should stop until everything is complete. Then the analysis and feedback can start.

The moaning about needing answers is actually doing my head in to the point its starting to spoil my enjoyment of watching it. I was enjoying going with the flow and seeing where it ends up. Then try to work out what the hell just happened. I dont see the point in complaining before the end, first it could all be sewn up quite nicely and secondly whats going to change? Nothing

So to sum up, watch it or don't, I don't care. Just stop moaning
 
re: your spoiler Crappy

The very fact that you're talking about it means mission accomplished for the writer. Theres no such thing as bad PR
 
Err I do not care about P.R. If that is all writers care about as well rather than telling their story in a proper and fulfilling manner then I guess shame on us for letting them.

I am only watching this now because I watched the first 4 seasons. If it was not for the fact that I knew that this was the last season, I would have stopped watching. I stopped watching Prison break after season 2 as well when it went to shit (First season or infact first half of first season of PB ranks among the best TV ever).
 
golden_blunder said:
I dont think anyone is complaining that you don't need answers, rather that the moaning should stop until everything is complete. Then the analysis and feedback can start.

The moaning about needing answers is actually doing my head in to the point its starting to spoil my enjoyment of watching it. I was enjoying going with the flow and seeing where it ends up. Then try to work out what the hell just happened. I dont see the point in complaining before the end, first it could all be sewn up quite nicely and secondly whats going to change? Nothing

So to sum up, watch it or don't, I don't care. Just stop moaning
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This. Crappys on some sort of marathon rant today.
 
I don't know, I actually prefer the mystery to the characters. But mystery isn't worth much without a good reveal.
 
Reveal has to have a right timing though.

Adam and Eve reveal was fine but whispers one felt totally out of place. They should have done that in S4 perhaps using Miles' ability.
 
Meh, I like Lost. I think its been a great TV show - albeit a bit far fetched, but it is a modern day sci fi (or does it even have a genre?)

I won't sit here for hours analysing it, I'd rather sit and enjoy it.
 
I think so far out of all the seasons this one has disappointed the most, just so little going on in the first few episodes. Far too many filler episodes considering that they have so many loose ends to tie up at the end I just am getting a kind of a rushed feel towards the end. Even the last episode where the sub sinks, just felt too much was happening in that episode.

Just a few points from the last episode

- Kinda explains why Jacob still to his death believes people are good, he lives a very sheltered life where he doesn't come across many people. Explains why till the end he seems to think that and is hell bent on proving the MiB that he is wrong.

- Their mother says she has made it so they can't harm each other, how come Jacob is then seen kicking the crap out of him and throwing him down that cave? Or maybe they can't kill each other but technically speaking Jacob kinda does that as well

- In a way I guess it was good to show him not being all wise and powerful from day one as that would of been weird so they showed a more human side but they made him out as a right simpleton. I loved what we saw of Jacob at the end of season 5 and even earlier on this season but after that they haven't done a great job.

- Surely as the protector of the island that mother should know better than just killing Jacob's and the MIB's mother just to take her babies. I reckon they could of had it so she was badly injured, gave birth and died etc. This mother came across as being a bit weird and if this island is so important surely the person who is in charge should be more pure at heart?

- The smoke being released, has that smoke just taken on MIB's identity or has the MIB's so called mind left and entered into the smoke?

- Who the hell finished the wheel off and how the hell did he figure out making that wheel would work? It would of possibly made more sense if someone was appearing to him and telling him to do this, like a dead person appearing and giving him instructions on what has to be done.

- Why no more info on the black smoke, why can Ben summon him, why can't it go past Ash, why are these rules in place and how does it bring dead people back.

- So many mysteries of the island not revealed, what exactly is that island and why is it so important?

Another thing is while people are upset about this whole light thing and what not how did you expect them to explain black smoke flying around killing people, dead people showing up and countless other weird things? I think also while the mother refers to it as the light it is electro magnet energy for the science folks.

IMO this should of been a double episode where keeping the first half as it was and then in the 2nd half going even deeper and explaining even more.
 
JazzG said:
Just a few points from the last episode

- Kinda explains why Jacob still to his death believes people are good, he lives a very sheltered life where he doesn't come across many people. Explains why till the end he seems to think that and is hell bent on proving the MiB that he is wrong.
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Actually that does not work.

Jacob was the one who listened to his mother and never interacted with other people. She was of the opinion that they are not be trusted and are destructive, the same one as MIB. So they did not show the transition of Jacob to someone who wanted to bring people to the island and believed in them.

And same with MIB. He actually needed people to come to island who could help him get off like before. So he should have been the one bringing them, not Jacob.
 
Maybe what we will see in say, the finale, is the smoke monster appearing to jacob for the first time and he explains that hes not really mib or something and something happens to make jacob believe what mib was saying all along - that people arnt bad.

Pure speculation of course.
 
Woodzy said:
My theory on it all.

Firstly, MiB and Jacob were never immortal to begin with, they were normal people, born of a normal mother. Jacob became immortal from whatever he drank.

Smokey is not MiB, and never was. Nothing special happened to MiB when he went into that cave, he died, and he stayed dead.

I think the smoke monster is just a representation of evil, something that was trapped in that cave by the light. MiB's entering of the cave allowed it to escape.

We all saw when we were first introduced to Jacob and Smokey, that Smokey was in the form of Jacobs brother. It's safe to assume that we'll see more Jacob and Smokey flashbacks.
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Gets my vote
 
Found a few more of those wonderful comic things that are floating around, spoilered em up cause they're quite big in size!

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I'm enjoying it for what it is. My power to suspend belief is pretty strong, especially when it comes to a series I've invested this much time in. I could be really critical but I'm choosing not to.

Peace, Caf-lost-tards
 
The Flying Potato said:
Maybe what we will see in say, the finale, is the smoke monster appearing to jacob for the first time and he explains that hes not really mib or something and something happens to make jacob believe what mib was saying all along - that people arnt bad.

Pure speculation of course.
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I agree with this.

More thoughts. I reckon i'm quite close with this theory, although most of it is fairly obvious stuff.

Jacob will probably find MiB, and there'll be some form of "it can't be, you are dead, i buried you myself!" sort of speech from Jacob.

Then Smokey will be like "oh, but i'm not your brother, ha!" and Jacob will be like "shit, what have i done."

Then Smokey will explain himself a bit, it'll turn out that the boys mother was working with him, or was actually him, which is why they both believed humanity was destructive and all that stuff, and that Smokey's goal is to get off the island so he can wipe the feckers out.

Then Jacob will get all reflective and shit, and realise his dead brother was right about there being more to humanity, and that humanity needs to be saved. Shit happens, they make up a bunch of rules for giggles, and the basic jist of the rules are that if Jacob dies without finding someone to replace him, Smokey wins, everyone dies.

Smokey manages to kill all the candidates Jacob brings every time because they are so destructive and easily manipulated they kill each other - no rules broken, but Jacob is still alive. So smokey is pissed and needs his loophole to get rid of Jacob without killing him himself or he'll never win.

Smokey manipulated Ben into dedicating his whole life to Jacob then eventually killing Jacob. Now Jacob is dead, these are the last batch of possible candidates.

Or maybe i watched Clash of the Titans too recently.

feck knows what Desmond, Whitmore, Eloise and even Walt have to do with anything, let alone the alternate timeline.

I considered the possibility that Desmond actually was smokey at one point as well, but i have nothing to back that up with apart from the fact i wouldn't put anything past this show.
 
The Flying Potato said:
Maybe what we will see in say, the finale, is the smoke monster appearing to jacob for the first time and he explains that hes not really mib or something and something happens to make jacob believe what mib was saying all along - that people arnt bad.

Pure speculation of course.
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MIB did say they were bad, though. He said it when they met later in the episode. They were a means to an end.
 
Alright, this may have been touched upon earlier.. but the kid that keeps freaking out MiB/Locke, that's gotta be Jacob as a kid right ? Haven't checked out the actor names yet, but I would think so.
 
Yeah it definitely wasn't bad by any stretch, I think a few people had really high expectations though, for good reason.

I still fully expect a lot more to be explained regarding that episode

Does anybody else think Desmond might have to go inside that cave of light? Or whatever is in there now

We've still got nearly 4 hours of it left, I expect a lot of shit to go down in that time.
 
Solius said:
Does anybody else think Desmond might have to go inside that cave of light? Or whatever is in there now
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yes... whitmore exposed him to the electromagnetism and he survived didnt he so I think that will come into it somehow...
 
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