What are you going on about...
Liverpool : General discussion
- Thread starter Yorkeontop
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With Rodgers in charge...I agree. With a competent manager we could potentially challenge for top 4. I don't think that's madness to say, I'm not saying we'd get 4th just that we could be in with a shout come the final few weeks.
Liverpools biggest problem isn't their players - it's the system and the lack of players for the system they play.
They have no wide players (apart from Ibe) - and no midfielders who are generally good at playing out wide, so they have to play a diamond or 3-5-2. But this is where it gets funny - they have no real wing-backs either - Clyne is not a typical wingback and is a lot better as an attacking right-back where his main responsibility is defending. And what do they have on the other side ?
And if they are gonna play 4-4-2 - they either have to drop Benteke or Sturridge if they want to make room for Coutinho - so why they spent £30 mill on Firmino as long as they have Coutinho - god knows.
They haven't got the players for 4-4-2 and they haven't got the players for 3-5-2
I swear Brentan just records the European Football Show on BT every sunday night, goes through each episode over summer seeing which player was creamed over the most by that bunch of chin stroking hipster pillocks whilst running a season of FM alongside it and then when he finds an alignment between the two.
Who was mentioned most by Richardson and Honigstein + Most Developed player on FM = Summer transfer policy.
He then rubs one out when Tony Barrett at the times claims his signings are astute.
Lemming.
Who was mentioned most by Richardson and Honigstein + Most Developed player on FM = Summer transfer policy.
He then rubs one out when Tony Barrett at the times claims his signings are astute.
Lemming.
Benteke off for an MRI. Could be his hamstring has gone. No luck with strikers at all. They should recall Balotelli.
Coutinho is the one of the most overrated player in the league IMO. Good player with great potential but right now he's a level below the best playmakers in the league.
Silva is head and shoulders above everyone followed by Mata, Ozil. Don't think he's as good as those two but i think he's better than Oscar.
Liverpool just look ordinary this season. I think they're more solid than they have been in recent years, and in the end that will translate to a degree of consistency that will keep them from slipping down the table.
But look at their starting line up from the weekend, and ask yourself, who is their most creative player after Coutinho? Look down the list and its hard to name anyone who can make things happen. Any name you choose as a creative player sounds silly (Milner? Sturridge?). Who do they have that will control a game or change a tight match? They have a few options on the bench, but Lallana has been a let down and Firmino hasn't settled yet. Neither strike me as able to change the course of a season. Ibe is too young to expect too much from, although he may actually be their best option.
I couldn't honestly say they're any more likely than Spurs, Southampton, Everton or Swansea to be challenging the top 4. They could be the ones out of that lot to have a good season and really push for a CL place, but they could just as likely end up behind all of those teams.
But look at their starting line up from the weekend, and ask yourself, who is their most creative player after Coutinho? Look down the list and its hard to name anyone who can make things happen. Any name you choose as a creative player sounds silly (Milner? Sturridge?). Who do they have that will control a game or change a tight match? They have a few options on the bench, but Lallana has been a let down and Firmino hasn't settled yet. Neither strike me as able to change the course of a season. Ibe is too young to expect too much from, although he may actually be their best option.
I couldn't honestly say they're any more likely than Spurs, Southampton, Everton or Swansea to be challenging the top 4. They could be the ones out of that lot to have a good season and really push for a CL place, but they could just as likely end up behind all of those teams.
Ordinary pretty much sums it up.
As each season ticks past the expectation is starting to wane along with true top tier players joining, as a kid they terrified me and throughout the 90s and early noughties they still had potential to morph into the side that dominated home and abroad.
Now they seem like a club not sure if it can retain former glories, they remind me of an Aston Villa or Sheffield Wednesday, bags of history, huge ground and support, but bad decisions and resting on laurels had left them so far behind, they will become a legend of past whilst slowly decaying to a permanent fixture in history books.
Now they seem like a club not sure if it can retain former glories, they remind me of an Aston Villa or Sheffield Wednesday, bags of history, huge ground and support, but bad decisions and resting on laurels had left them so far behind, they will become a legend of past whilst slowly decaying to a permanent fixture in history books.
To be brutally honest i wouldn't be surprised if you did finish that low. It'd probably be down to giving up a few weeks before the end but still ...
Easily manageable with Rodgers in charge.
I disagree that you have good player in every position, skrtel is nothing special ... sakho should be playing, he can't possibly be worse than lovren.
Lb you've got a new player starting there every 2nd week and its been like that for ages.
Mignolet ... doesn't get enough protection, he might be good but his confidence looks shot and hes not performing well
Your midfield is a mess really. Lucas is a decent player who can do a job but playing him either pushes milner wide or coutinho and firminho out wide.
Your not set up for possession football, there's not enough pace up front to be a good counter attacking team, you'd ideally want a good winger to supply benteke (which you don't have) and the middle of the park is badly overcrowded with all your talent while everything around them is filled with 'good enough'
(why aren't you playing a 442 diamond actually? Put moreno at lb, milner on the right of the diamond to provide some width that side? You'd probably be pretty weak defensively but that's nothing new. Or is that too obvious for Rodgers?)
McCarthy isn't a dm but besic is and hes quite good. Again everton's only real weakness is a lack of cover at cb.
That is a big big problem. Liverpool 3 best players are:
Coutinho - he looks quality on his day but he is as consistent as he ever was again this season. And what i mean with incosistent is that his decision making hasn't improved at all in all those seasons with Liverpool, the opportunity he had against Norwich just show that, if he would do that in the top 4 team he would be benched for quite a long time by at least 2 top 4 managers. And this is a big worry, he should improve in decision making till now.
Benteke - for me he was never top 4 striker, he is good but nothing special. There are a lot of players of the same quality around, Bony for example, who are good but never good enough to be starting for top 4 team.
Sturridge - he was injuried for more than a season now - with little spells without injuries. He was always like that through his career and this was one of the biggest reasons why Chelsea sold him. Counting on him that he will lead the Liverpool attack is similar as when we count on Rafael last season that he will be our first 11 RB.
edit: but tbf Clyne who you didn't mentioned is top 4 player.
If a team want top 4 finish they would have to take some points from that type of matches simple as that. That should never be an excuse because other teams infront of you had also some tough fixtures.
Arsenal had Chelsea (A), Liverpool (H) and Crystal Palace (A) (and don't forget that West Ham away, i can't believe i am saying that
)City had Chelsea (H), Everton (A) and Crystal Palace (A) (and again West Ham away
)United had Southampton (A), Liverpool (H), Swansea (A) and Tottenham (A).
Chelsea who are just 1 point behind Liverpool and who were so criticised everywhere had played City (A), Arsenal (H), Everton (A), Palace (H) and Swansea (H). That is tough.
Any game against top 10 side in the PL is tough TBF.
But to criticise Liverpool just based on results this season would be stupid, we did draw with Newcastle the same as Liverpool did against Norwich, We lost against Swansea and is the same as Liverpool did against West Ham. No, criticism just based on results would be stupid at this stage of the season, the criticism comes from Liverpool displays (never scored more than 1 goal and scored 4 and conceded 9 in 6 games), from Liverpool ever changing starting 11 and formation which shows that the manager do not know what he wants and in the end from the squad which is put on the pitch and on the bench because everyone know that this is not a squad Liverpool should have after spending so much money.
I remember his "death by football" speech and now look at the squad. They have two or three players who would shine in such a system. They have many team-players with high-workrate, but their ability on the ball incredibly average (coutinho being the exception). Possession based football with Milner, Henderson, Benteke, Allen, Lucas, Skrtel or Can? You must be joking. They should try to run the opposition into the ground with a strong pressing system. It would make them dangerous and entertaining again, but Rodgers seems inept to implement such a system. They also lack the quality in various positions. No top DM. No midfielder who could control a game. Only Ibe as natural winger. Bad GK. Average CDs.....
Milner is a decent CM for me. He isn't a DM. Maybe he can do a job in case of injuries but as a first choice DM he won't screen the defence as required. Can from what I hear from Liverpool fans, isn't playing well as a midfielder probably because he isn't experienced enough at that position. Though yes,
McCarthy isn't a DM. Barry is. He isn't matic level obviously but he is a decent enough DM for a team aiming for 6-7-8. McCarthy is actually a good enough CM for Everton(maybe even for a top 4 team). As for Lucas he would be a decent level for a lower level team but for the aspirations of Liverpool, he is not really great. Maybe average is a harsh term though.
Gerrard was playing as a DM and he can do a better job there than Milner. Plus that season you guys pretty much had defended from the front through Suarez and the likes. One thing Gerrard can do well is rally his troops into their positions. Again as others said, you conceded a good amount of goals too so it wasn't as if defensive solidity was achieved with that midfield.
'Coutinho Henderson and Milner is a midfield that won't provide any support to the defence and will concede.'
This is what I said. I was talking about the defence all this while. Plus I mentioned Milner doesn't have the creative force to offset his lack of defensive ability like Gerrard could.With someone like Suarez Ronaldo or aguero you could probably win most games with this midfield by outscoring the opponents but when you don't, you need more defensive solidity than that.
It just seems to me that Brendan has been found out as he doesn`t seem to know what players or system to use . Gnasher Suarez , horrible man that he is , made them look so much better than they are and raised expectations while Rodgers took the plaudits . He`s fecked without his trump card now .
If a team want top 4 finish they would have to take some points from that type of matches simple as that. That should never be an excuse because other teams infront of you had also some tough fixtures.
Arsenal had Chelsea (A), Liverpool (H) and Crystal Palace (A) (and don't forget that West Ham away, i can't believe i am saying that
City had Chelsea (H), Everton (A) and Crystal Palace (A) (and again West Ham away
United had Southampton (A), Liverpool (H), Swansea (A) and Tottenham (A).
Chelsea who are just 1 point behind Liverpool and who were so criticised everywhere had played City (A), Arsenal (H), Everton (A), Palace (H) and Swansea (H). That is tough.
Any game against top 10 side in the PL is tough TBF.
But to criticise Liverpool just based on results this season would be stupid, we did draw with Newcastle the same as Liverpool did against Norwich, We lost against Swansea and is the same as Liverpool did against West Ham. No, criticism just based on results would be stupid at this stage of the season, the criticism comes from Liverpool displays (never scored more than 1 goal and scored 4 and conceded 9 in 6 games), from Liverpool ever changing starting 11 and formation which shows that the manager do not know what he wants and in the end from the squad which is put on the pitch and on the bench because everyone know that this is not a squad Liverpool should have after spending so much money.
Disagree with this statement. Those are the toughest matches in the entire league, away to the top 6 clubs in the country are always fixtures that you expect either a draw or a loss. If you manage a win it's a bonus.
They've had two very difficult away fixtures that fall in the above category. So losing both isn't exactly a disaster on paper. Their home form though should be concerning Liverpool fans because those are 3 fixtures that they really should be winning, only getting 4 points from 9 is bad. Add to that their inability to defend and they're looking like they've got serious problems (as I pointed out in my post). It's no surprise that Rodgers is switching round his formation and teamsheet though as he obviously doesn't know what his best 11 is. You could say that's poor from a manager who's been at Liverpool for what 3/4 seasons? I'm honestly baffled at their use of Firmino and makes no sense why they decided to buy him if they're going to misuse him.
I'd say the biggest criticism you can point at Rodgers is his pretty bad record of transfers, but whether that's down to him or their transfer board (are they still using that?) I don't know. It's why I think we've done really well with our transfers this summer, we've brought in players with a clear plan on how and where to use them. They've all slotted in straight away and all look good.
On what basis do you think that Liverpool's squad is "easily" better than that of Spurs (for example)?
Yeah I was counting Clyne as part of the general defensive unit, and he's a big part of why I think it could be decent if properly coached. Of course all their star players have questions over them, but there are questions over plenty of ours and Arsenal's players too. Would you rate Giroud as much better than Benteke? I think Coutinho's better than Memphis at this time. Sturridge has a lot of injuries but he's very good when he's available. I think those 3 are at the level of plenty of players that are currently playing for last season's top 4. Of course, as I said, you need a lot more than three (or four) such players to actually make top 4 with any consistency.
Amongst the other issues, one of Rodgers biggest problems seems to be their home form. They drop a shit load of points at home to teams they really should be beating.
Our Home form last season was the reason we made the top 4.
Our Home form last season was the reason we made the top 4.
That's not really what I meant. I'm saying the squad as it is now would easily finish 5th if we had a good manager because, regardless of how Spurs squad compares, you also perform like a mid table side.
With both squads performing to their potential it's a tough call. At the minute neither are at that level, so if we got a good manager I'd back us to walk into 5th.
I don´t understand your smilie.fsg been warned of klopp though...
FSG would be mad to pass up the opportunity to get Klopp. He´d be perfect for Liverpool.As for Liverpool's tough opening fixtures, their upcoming matches look even more tougher!! After Aston Villa (C'mon Sherwoodiola), they have Everton away, Spurs away, Southampton at home, Chelsea away, Crystal Palace at home, City away, Swansea at home, Newcastle away and West Brom at home.
Except for Villa and Newcastle, none of the matches look easy. The have midweek European matches on Thursday as well before some of these fixtures and if they lose a few, they'll be under tremendous pressure to get a few things right. I'm just saying if their current points tally can be attributed to the matches they've played, the upcoming ones aren't rosy either.
Except for Villa and Newcastle, none of the matches look easy. The have midweek European matches on Thursday as well before some of these fixtures and if they lose a few, they'll be under tremendous pressure to get a few things right. I'm just saying if their current points tally can be attributed to the matches they've played, the upcoming ones aren't rosy either.
Ancelloti going from Madrid to Liverpool. How unfortunate
I might just cry if Liverpool manage to get Ancelotti.
KRAP!
I don´t think that Ancelotti would be a good choice for them. They need a manager who can build a team, that is stronger than it´s parts. Not someone who can get the best out of stars.
Ancelotti would be a train wreck for them, he's very good at established clubs with great teams already built, he'd have no chance there.
I agree. His league record is pretty shocking, considering the teams he has managed.
If they're looking to reestablish themselves in the Top 4, Ancelotti is the wrong choice.
Ancelotti, eh? That would do me.
I'm happy with that, though I think Klopp would be a better fit.
Not sure how people figure that because he's used to working with the best, he can't work with second-best.
He's got the main trait I want - He's very good at finding the roles for players that gets the most out of them.
Not sure how people figure that because he's used to working with the best, he can't work with second-best.
He's got the main trait I want - He's very good at finding the roles for players that gets the most out of them.
Team building is, it's safe to say, not his forte. Not sure how good will be in terms of balancing the budget either...
NOOOOO!!!
Our budget is already pretty balanced. Compared to United & City, our wage bill is like £50m-60m per year less than it was 5 years ago, plus with the new sponsorship deals & the TV deals coming into play, I think whoever comes in will have a decent figure to work with.
But to be fair, Rodgers has already had a decent figure... Ancelotti would spend the money better, and would draw better players to the club in the first place.
Huh? That's not his forte at all, his best work is taking on an already established team and getting the best out of it, not building a new team.
I'd be very annoyed if they got Ancelotti. Class guy, I'd hate it if he went to Liverpool.
Ancelotti could work but that source looks like bullshit, picking up a flagging team and rebuilding the squad isn't really his MO.
Winning leagues isn't either, hes more of a cup manager imo.
Unless they're really desperate to win the FA Cup. i don't really see it (or him taking the job on)
I guess the transfer committee could buy the players, he could be the trainer basically. I can see why they want him but it'd be a bad idea imo (or a good challenge for ancelotti?)
Winning leagues isn't either, hes more of a cup manager imo.
Unless they're really desperate to win the FA Cup. i don't really see it (or him taking the job on)
I guess the transfer committee could buy the players, he could be the trainer basically. I can see why they want him but it'd be a bad idea imo (or a good challenge for ancelotti?)
I see what you and others are saying, but he'd still do a better job than Rodgers. I'd prefer Klopp, but right now, I'd take Big Sam, never mind Ancelotti